paying support, but no visitation

"Chris" wrote in message
news

"CasualObserver" wrote in message
oups.com...

father911 wrote:
To answer your question, I am not looking to "get off the hook" for
child support. I don't have a problem with paying child support, I have
a problem that all I am is a bank to my ex. All I want is to have time
to bond with my son. I have not been allowed that. I have been fighting
this in court for nearly four years. I have spent over $40,000.
Obviously it is not money that is the issue. I have gotten orders from
the court, but she has refused even the court orders, yet the courts do
nothing to reinforce it.

Its been trendy in America over the past 20 years or so for women to
have children and not want the father around. The culture support it
and the courts could careless. So why waste your time and resources in
a futile attemp to build a relationship with the child when the mother
clearly doesn't want that to happen.

That is not always true, I am a father of 3 children and have FULL legal and
physical custody of my children.
Like I tell other fathers who are going thru a divorce, make sure you take
the children if you move out do NOT
move out and leave the children with the mother, the rule of thumb is who
ever starts with custody keeps custody.

I had other issues involved in my divorce - but I know other fathers that
also have primary custody of their children.

Normally the mother gets custody simply because the father moves out of the
home and thinks nothing of leaving the children with the mother during the
divorce.

all I can say is PLAN PLAN PLAN!!! do NOT leave your children thinking you
are going to fight for custody later, that is NO later!!

as far as the visitation goes, the other poster had it correct, DOCUMENT
everything, get a "specific" visitatin order!!

I had the shoe on the other foot, mine was specific based on MY request - it
states the 1st and 3rd sunday from 1pm to 5pm
(The reason for the short visitation was part her request and also mine due
to prior neglect - which was substantiated by the courts and CPS)

I did the specific times to cover my butt so she could not "switch" weekend
at a whim and say that I was denying her visitation!

Courts like specific visitation for the most part - it saves guess work when
a "reasonable" order fails to work.

I would also suggest calling from a phone that records BOTH in bound and out
bound calls so you can ducument all calls to and from the ex / kids

I have a broadband house phone and it keeps a record of In and Out bound
calls should I need a copy of the calls for court!

Your local FOC also has a fax / email - USE it.. every time you are denied
not only document it but notify the FOC in writing either by fax or email
within 48 hours of the denial so they keep a record of what is going on.
You simply keeping a log is NOT good enough, you need to notify them each
and every time! (not by phone, email or fax) as they keep those in a file
(or they are supposed to) I would suggest E-mail as you can bcc yourself and
have a record that you made an attempt to contact them about it.



Robert



That was my thought. The courts have determined that ONLY the mother has
rights to her child. After all, it was HER, not him, who gave birth.

Robert - Michigan wrote:
"Chris" wrote in message
news

"CasualObserver" wrote in message
oups.com...

father911 wrote:
To answer your question, I am not looking to "get off the hook" for
child support. I don't have a problem with paying child support, I have
a problem that all I am is a bank to my ex. All I want is to have time
to bond with my son. I have not been allowed that. I have been fighting
this in court for nearly four years. I have spent over $40,000.
Obviously it is not money that is the issue. I have gotten orders from
the court, but she has refused even the court orders, yet the courts do
nothing to reinforce it.

Its been trendy in America over the past 20 years or so for women to
have children and not want the father around. The culture support it
and the courts could careless. So why waste your time and resources in
a futile attemp to build a relationship with the child when the mother
clearly doesn't want that to happen.

That is not always true, I am a father of 3 children and have FULL legal and
physical custody of my children.
Like I tell other fathers who are going thru a divorce, make sure you take
the children if you move out do NOT
move out and leave the children with the mother, the rule of thumb is who
ever starts with custody keeps custody.

I had other issues involved in my divorce - but I know other fathers that
also have primary custody of their children.

Normally the mother gets custody simply because the father moves out of the
home and thinks nothing of leaving the children with the mother during the
divorce.

all I can say is PLAN PLAN PLAN!!! do NOT leave your children thinking you
are going to fight for custody later, that is NO later!!

as far as the visitation goes, the other poster had it correct, DOCUMENT
everything, get a "specific" visitatin order!!

I had the shoe on the other foot, mine was specific based on MY request - it
states the 1st and 3rd sunday from 1pm to 5pm
(The reason for the short visitation was part her request and also mine due
to prior neglect - which was substantiated by the courts and CPS)

I did the specific times to cover my butt so she could not "switch" weekend
at a whim and say that I was denying her visitation!

Courts like specific visitation for the most part - it saves guess work when
a "reasonable" order fails to work.

I would also suggest calling from a phone that records BOTH in bound and out
bound calls so you can ducument all calls to and from the ex / kids

I have a broadband house phone and it keeps a record of In and Out bound
calls should I need a copy of the calls for court!
,,,


Your local FOC also has a fax / email - USE it.. every time you are denied
not only document it but notify the FOC in writing either by fax or email
within 48 hours of the denial so they keep a record of what is going on.
You simply keeping a log is NOT good enough, you need to notify them each
and every time! (not by phone, email or fax) as they keep those in a file
(or they are supposed to) I would suggest E-mail as you can bcc yourself and
have a record that you made an attempt to contact them about it.

I would add just one thing to this list. Send a copy of the document
stating time and place and circumstances of denied access to the ex.
On the copy to the ex, write that it is a CC of the document being sent
to the officials.

Also, if you have the right to time with your child, why don't you
simply go and get the child? This is your right under your agreement.





Robert



That was my thought. The courts have determined that ONLY the mother has
rights to her child. After all, it was HER, not him, who gave birth.

Treadleson wrote:
Robert - Michigan wrote:
"Chris" wrote in message
news

"CasualObserver" wrote in message
oups.com...

father911 wrote:
To answer your question, I am not looking to "get off the hook" for
child support. I don't have a problem with paying child support, I have
a problem that all I am is a bank to my ex. All I want is to have time
to bond with my son. I have not been allowed that. I have been fighting
this in court for nearly four years. I have spent over $40,000.
Obviously it is not money that is the issue. I have gotten orders from
the court, but she has refused even the court orders, yet the courts do
nothing to reinforce it.

Its been trendy in America over the past 20 years or so for women to
have children and not want the father around. The culture support it
and the courts could careless. So why waste your time and resources in
a futile attemp to build a relationship with the child when the mother
clearly doesn't want that to happen.

That is not always true, I am a father of 3 children and have FULL legal and
physical custody of my children.
Like I tell other fathers who are going thru a divorce, make sure you take
the children if you move out do NOT
move out and leave the children with the mother, the rule of thumb is who
ever starts with custody keeps custody.

I had other issues involved in my divorce - but I know other fathers that
also have primary custody of their children.

Normally the mother gets custody simply because the father moves out of the
home and thinks nothing of leaving the children with the mother during the
divorce.

all I can say is PLAN PLAN PLAN!!! do NOT leave your children thinking you
are going to fight for custody later, that is NO later!!

as far as the visitation goes, the other poster had it correct, DOCUMENT
everything, get a "specific" visitatin order!!

I had the shoe on the other foot, mine was specific based on MY request - it
states the 1st and 3rd sunday from 1pm to 5pm
(The reason for the short visitation was part her request and also mine due
to prior neglect - which was substantiated by the courts and CPS)

I did the specific times to cover my butt so she could not "switch" weekend
at a whim and say that I was denying her visitation!

Courts like specific visitation for the most part - it saves guess work when
a "reasonable" order fails to work.

I would also suggest calling from a phone that records BOTH in bound and out
bound calls so you can ducument all calls to and from the ex / kids

I have a broadband house phone and it keeps a record of In and Out bound
calls should I need a copy of the calls for court!
,,,


Your local FOC also has a fax / email - USE it.. every time you are denied
not only document it but notify the FOC in writing either by fax or email
within 48 hours of the denial so they keep a record of what is going on.
You simply keeping a log is NOT good enough, you need to notify them each
and every time! (not by phone, email or fax) as they keep those in a file
(or they are supposed to) I would suggest E-mail as you can bcc yourself and
have a record that you made an attempt to contact them about it.

I would add just one thing to this list. Send a copy of the document
stating time and place and circumstances of denied access to the ex.
On the copy to the ex, write that it is a CC of the document being sent
to the officials.

Also, if you have the right to time with your child, why don't you
simply go and get the child? This is your right under your agreement.





Robert



That was my thought. The courts have determined that ONLY the mother has
rights to her child. After all, it was HER, not him, who gave birth.



What is the FOC?

Robert - Michigan wrote:
"Chris" wrote in message
news

"CasualObserver" wrote in message
oups.com...

father911 wrote:
To answer your question, I am not looking to "get off the hook" for
child support. I don't have a problem with paying child support, I have
a problem that all I am is a bank to my ex. All I want is to have time
to bond with my son. I have not been allowed that. I have been fighting
this in court for nearly four years. I have spent over $40,000.
Obviously it is not money that is the issue. I have gotten orders from
the court, but she has refused even the court orders, yet the courts do
nothing to reinforce it.

Its been trendy in America over the past 20 years or so for women to
have children and not want the father around. The culture support it
and the courts could careless. So why waste your time and resources in
a futile attemp to build a relationship with the child when the mother
clearly doesn't want that to happen.

That is not always true, I am a father of 3 children and have FULL legal and
physical custody of my children.
Like I tell other fathers who are going thru a divorce, make sure you take
the children if you move out do NOT
move out and leave the children with the mother, the rule of thumb is who
ever starts with custody keeps custody.

I had other issues involved in my divorce - but I know other fathers that
also have primary custody of their children.

Normally the mother gets custody simply because the father moves out of the
home and thinks nothing of leaving the children with the mother during the
divorce.

all I can say is PLAN PLAN PLAN!!! do NOT leave your children thinking you
are going to fight for custody later, that is NO later!!

as far as the visitation goes, the other poster had it correct, DOCUMENT
everything, get a "specific" visitatin order!!

I had the shoe on the other foot, mine was specific based on MY request - it
states the 1st and 3rd sunday from 1pm to 5pm
(The reason for the short visitation was part her request and also mine due
to prior neglect - which was substantiated by the courts and CPS)

I did the specific times to cover my butt so she could not "switch" weekend
at a whim and say that I was denying her visitation!

Courts like specific visitation for the most part - it saves guess work when
a "reasonable" order fails to work.

I would also suggest calling from a phone that records BOTH in bound and out
bound calls so you can ducument all calls to and from the ex / kids

I have a broadband house phone and it keeps a record of In and Out bound
calls should I need a copy of the calls for court!

Your local FOC also has a fax / email - USE it.. every time you are denied
not only document it but notify the FOC in writing either by fax or email
within 48 hours of the denial so they keep a record of what is going on.
You simply keeping a log is NOT good enough, you need to notify them each
and every time! (not by phone, email or fax) as they keep those in a file
(or they are supposed to) I would suggest E-mail as you can bcc yourself and
have a record that you made an attempt to contact them about it.



Robert



That was my thought. The courts have determined that ONLY the mother has
rights to her child. After all, it was HER, not him, who gave birth.


I will tell you what I have done - first my ex left me after be married for 9 months - immediately after she found out she was pregnant. She left to another state to live with her parents. When my son was born, she would only allow me to have visitation with my son in her home and with her present because I was "a stranger" to my infant son. Then she accused me of physically abusing my son, but the medical and CPS reports confirmed there was no abuse. At 18 months of age, she allowed me to have a visitation with my son in public - in the middle of a book store, with her present, and I could only see him two hours at a time. At this time, I took a witness with me. My witness was in plain view, but it was not know to my ex that she was there with me. Low and behold, the very next morning, she emailed my lawyer stating I was verbally and physically abusive to her and my son. Next, I told contacted an agency that supervises visits and told my ex my visitations were gooing to take place at this organization, without her. She refused the visit and instead called dept. of licensing to have the organization investigated because she claimed they were threatening to her and unprofessional. The DOL found no findings to support her claims. I then went to the court, and though my visit had not been ordered to be supervised, I requested an order to have my visits supervised by this same organization (to act as my witness). The court put in the order as requested, and she did not show up for the ordered visit. The following month we had the same order, but agreed to use an organization that she chose. I had two great visits with my son, my ex cancelled the third one claiming my son went ballistic after the visit and was out of control because the visit went so poorly. She took my son to a counselor and had the counselor write a letter making many false statements about how the visit went and how my son reacted to me. Mind you, neither my ex, nor the counselor witnessed the visit. The written report from the organization that supervised was quite the opposite of what my ex told the counselor - nonetheless, she took her claims to court to reduce my visits to one hour per month. In place of that, she got an order that my visits will take place at my son's school during his class time (he is in a private preschool) or with a professional therapist who charges almost $100/hour.

How can the court put such a ludicrous order in place!!! How is that
even legal?!!! A school is not a visitation organization!