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Confused About County DCSS Collection



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 5th 06, 11:17 AM posted to alt.child-support
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Default Confused About County DCSS Collection


The child upon whom I pay support turns 18 in late June 2007, so I asked
the county DCSS in California when my last payment is supposed to be,
because I mail 12 post-dated checks from abroad each year, which they cash
each month.

Oddly enough, the county DCSS told me that they have orders not to collect
on my account beyond 1 Feb 2007, and that any money I send to them comes
back to me or goes to arrears (there are no arrears).

That is about 3-4 months before the child turns 18.

What is the deal with this?

I can hardly believe that my monthly support stops short of the child's
18th birthday. Do I send the money instead directly to the child's mother?
Because that's what I am planning on doing.

The last thing I want is for the family law court judge to be summoning me
before his bench asking me why I stopped paying a few months short of the
time of the child reaching majority.

A child is a minor until the 18th b'day in California, right? And the CA
Family Code pretty much says I have to support the "minor" child. Anyone
want to be a lawyer here? Thanks.
  #2  
Old February 5th 06, 12:11 PM posted to alt.child-support
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Default Confused About County DCSS Collection


"SMH" wrote in message ...

The child upon whom I pay support turns 18 in late June 2007, so I asked
the county DCSS in California when my last payment is supposed to be,
because I mail 12 post-dated checks from abroad each year, which they cash
each month.

Oddly enough, the county DCSS told me that they have orders not to collect
on my account beyond 1 Feb 2007, and that any money I send to them comes
back to me or goes to arrears (there are no arrears).

That is about 3-4 months before the child turns 18.

What is the deal with this?

I can hardly believe that my monthly support stops short of the child's
18th birthday. Do I send the money instead directly to the child's mother?
Because that's what I am planning on doing.

The last thing I want is for the family law court judge to be summoning me
before his bench asking me why I stopped paying a few months short of the
time of the child reaching majority.

A child is a minor until the 18th b'day in California, right? And the CA
Family Code pretty much says I have to support the "minor" child. Anyone
want to be a lawyer here? Thanks.


Why not sent the appropriate number of checks to cover until the month in which the child turns 18?

You should have a copy of the order for child suport that the county has - what does it say?


  #3  
Old February 5th 06, 05:50 PM posted to alt.child-support
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Default Confused About County DCSS Collection

Personally I would continue sending the money to DCSS. You will get the
money back since there are no arrearages. Taking a chance the state has
it right is a gamble I would be unwilling to take. Sending it directly
to you ex doesn't sound like a good idea. Kudos for taking your
responsibility seriously.
Bill










  #4  
Old February 5th 06, 06:51 PM posted to alt.child-support
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Default Confused About County DCSS Collection


"William Barger" wrote in message
...
Personally I would continue sending the money to DCSS. You will get the
money back since there are no arrearages. Taking a chance the state has
it right is a gamble I would be unwilling to take. Sending it directly
to you ex doesn't sound like a good idea. Kudos for taking your
responsibility seriously.
Bill




Billyboob should not be taken seriously WRT anything regarding child
support. He is a proven fool. But he is a expert on bird masturbation.










  #5  
Old February 5th 06, 06:57 PM posted to alt.child-support
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Default Confused About County DCSS Collection



William Barger wrote:

Personally I would continue sending the money to DCSS. You will get the
money back since there are no arrearages. Taking a chance the state has
it right is a gamble I would be unwilling to take. Sending it directly
to you ex doesn't sound like a good idea. Kudos for taking your
responsibility seriously.


Twice in one day that I agree with Barger. Amazing.

The State is trying to play a game with you to bleed you for a few last
dollars of C$ before your obligation ends and you are cut out of their
Satanic web. Don't let them win. They are lying to you in order to
trick you into getting back into their clutches, just as you suspect.

Send them the money right up until the child's 18th birthday, then hire
a lawyer (you always have to hire a lawyer), get yourself physically
back to the courtroom, and have a judge verify that you no longer need
to pay. Bring a notary public of your own and have him stamp the
judge's declaration that you no longer have an obligation. Make sure
you get the original copy.

Then, when you get the order in the mail a few weeks later, read over it
carefully to make sure that CSE's lawyers didn't "insert" anything that
the judge didn't authorize them to. This happened to me when my own CS
case was evaluated a couple years ago, and it took months to straighten
out (I had to threaten to report the offending lawyer to the state bar).

- Ron ^*^

  #6  
Old February 5th 06, 08:01 PM posted to alt.child-support
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Default Confused About County DCSS Collection

"Moon Shyne" said in alt.child-support:

"SMH" wrote in message
...

The child upon whom I pay support turns 18 in late June 2007, so I
asked the county DCSS in California when my last payment is supposed
to be, because I mail 12 post-dated checks from abroad each year,
which they cash each month.

Oddly enough, the county DCSS told me that they have orders not to
collect on my account beyond 1 Feb 2007, and that any money I send to
them comes back to me or goes to arrears (there are no arrears).

That is about 3-4 months before the child turns 18.

What is the deal with this?

I can hardly believe that my monthly support stops short of the
child's 18th birthday. Do I send the money instead directly to the
child's mother? Because that's what I am planning on doing.

The last thing I want is for the family law court judge to be
summoning me before his bench asking me why I stopped paying a few
months short of the time of the child reaching majority.

A child is a minor until the 18th b'day in California, right? And
the CA Family Code pretty much says I have to support the "minor"
child. Anyone want to be a lawyer here? Thanks.




First let me thank all who have provided helpful advice and questions.



Why not sent the appropriate number of checks to cover until the month
in which the child turns 18?



I will have to send the payments directly to the mother.

DCSS has said it will return any money to me beyond that. They are
apparently washing their hands of this case.


You should have a copy of the order for child suport that the county
has - what does it say?


Yes, I have entered the original order below. Clause 3 seems to be the
relevant clause. (By the way the support award listed there has been
increased SUBSTANTIALLY since the original order in modified orders, which
only changed the support amount.)

It says that I have to pay "until terminated by operation of law" or
further order of the Court.

Do I need a lawyer to interpret "operation of law"?

This is the State of California Family Code Sections 3900-3902:

3900. Subject to this division, the father and mother of
a minor child have an equal responsibility to support their
child in the manner suitable to the child's circumstances.

3901. (a) The duty of support imposed by Section 3900 continues
as to an unmarried child who has attained the age of 18 years,
is a full-time high school student, and who is not self-
supporting, until the time the child completes the 12th grade
or attains the age of 19 years, whichever occurs first.

(b) Nothing in this section limits a parent's ability to agree
to provide additional support or the court's power to
inquire whether an agreement to provide additional support
has been made.

3902. The court may direct that an allowance be made to the parent
of a child for whom support may be ordered out of the child's
property for the child's past or future support, on
conditions that are proper, if the direction is for the
child's benefit.

The child is graduating from high school in June or May of this year,
although she will be just short of her 17th birthday (her mother
inadvisedly skipped her a grade!). This child was, unfortunately, the
product of a paternity suit, with the mother using the pregnancy as an
ultimatum for marriage to me. No visitation was requested, and the child
grew up pretty much fatherless. If I continue paying support, it would
instead be to the child rather than to her reckless and conniving mother.

Here is my problem: I live overseas in a developing country. I make
$13,800 a year net (of course, I'd make 4-5 times that amount living and
working in the U.S. in the same job, but my foreign national did not want
to live in the U.S....go figure). The costs involved in dealing with a
lawyer and the court in ENSURING that this order for support was
officially terminated would be predictably considerable. I once had a
lawyer tell me I must have been kidding asking him for a consult given my
yearly income as a grad student, so I think I speak from some experience.

Is it a mistake to assume that the 18th birthday comes and the mother gets
indignant and asks the judge why I have stopped paying her for a child
that has reached majority?



================ Relevant Text of Child Support Court Order ========


Filed 6 Aug 1990

JUDGMENT FOR REIMBURSEMENT OF WELFARE FUNDS AND CHILD SUPPORT BY
STIPULATION

It is hereby order and adjudged that:

1. mother's name and Defendant are the parents of child's name,
born child's DOB

2. Defendant pay $xxx to reimburse county name for AFDC benefits
provided for specified period

3. Defendant pay $139 per month for child support beginning July 1, 1990,
and continuing until terminated by operation of law or further order of
the Court. All payments are due on the first day of each month;

4. The child support and reimbursement of AFDC provided for in this
stipulation meets or exceeds the minimum child support provided for by the
Agnos Child Support Standards Act of 1984. The Defendant acknowledges
that the right to support has been assigned to county name pursuant
Welfare & Instiutions Code Section 11477. The support amount in this
stipulation is based upon a determination that the net monthly disposable
income for the parents is as follows:

Custodial parent: $ -0-
Non-custodial parent (Defendant) $ 769.73

5. A Wage Assignment shall issue;

6. Defendant pay $-0- for attorney fees and $-0- for court costs;

7. Defendant make all payments to the County Name District Attorney,
Family Support Division with case number YY-XXXX on any check or money
order;

8. Defendant notify the Family Support Division with ten (10) days of any
change in address, employment, or termination of medical insurance for the
child;

9. Defendant maintain medical insurance for the child whenever it is
available through employment, or other medical group insurance;

10. All medical reimbursement rights for the care of the child which are
not paid by the Defendant are assigned to the County Name pursuant to
Civil Code Sec. 4358.5.

11. The District Attorney shall enforce this order.

12. Each party understands that the Court has continuing authority to make
an order increasing or decreasing the amount of support payments. You
have the right to request that the support be decreased or eliminated
entirely.





  #7  
Old February 5th 06, 08:49 PM posted to alt.child-support
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Posts: n/a
Default Confused About County DCSS Collection


Hire a lawyer. Always hire a lawyer. Hire a lawyer and show up
physically to the courtroom.

It will cost you a lot of money, but it will cost you MORE money if you
don't. CSE and the rest of the conniving pack of hyenas are licking
their chops waiting for you to slip up. They won't tell you you slipped
up right away, they'll wait five years for the arrearage to add up and
then surprise you with an arrest and jail time awaiting your automatic
conviction of owing them thousands of dollars due to some technicality
or other, backed up by the Bradley Amendment.

This is how these crooks operate. It's like dealing with Tammany Hall.

Do NOT send the money to the child's mother, when they spring their trap
on you the judge will declare any money that didn't go through their
system as being a "gift" and irrelevant to your arrearage. If you send
the money to them and they send it back to you (unlikely), you will at
least have some record of this and the whisper of a ghost of a chance in
court when they try to gouge you years from now.

- Ron ^*^


SMH wrote:

"Moon Shyne" said in alt.child-support:


"SMH" wrote in message
...

The child upon whom I pay support turns 18 in late June 2007, so I
asked the county DCSS in California when my last payment is supposed
to be, because I mail 12 post-dated checks from abroad each year,
which they cash each month.

Oddly enough, the county DCSS told me that they have orders not to
collect on my account beyond 1 Feb 2007, and that any money I send to
them comes back to me or goes to arrears (there are no arrears).

That is about 3-4 months before the child turns 18.

What is the deal with this?

I can hardly believe that my monthly support stops short of the
child's 18th birthday. Do I send the money instead directly to the
child's mother? Because that's what I am planning on doing.

The last thing I want is for the family law court judge to be
summoning me before his bench asking me why I stopped paying a few
months short of the time of the child reaching majority.

A child is a minor until the 18th b'day in California, right? And
the CA Family Code pretty much says I have to support the "minor"
child. Anyone want to be a lawyer here? Thanks.





First let me thank all who have provided helpful advice and questions.




Why not sent the appropriate number of checks to cover until the month
in which the child turns 18?




I will have to send the payments directly to the mother.

DCSS has said it will return any money to me beyond that. They are
apparently washing their hands of this case.



You should have a copy of the order for child suport that the county
has - what does it say?



Yes, I have entered the original order below. Clause 3 seems to be the
relevant clause. (By the way the support award listed there has been
increased SUBSTANTIALLY since the original order in modified orders, which
only changed the support amount.)

It says that I have to pay "until terminated by operation of law" or
further order of the Court.

Do I need a lawyer to interpret "operation of law"?

This is the State of California Family Code Sections 3900-3902:

3900. Subject to this division, the father and mother of
a minor child have an equal responsibility to support their
child in the manner suitable to the child's circumstances.

3901. (a) The duty of support imposed by Section 3900 continues
as to an unmarried child who has attained the age of 18 years,
is a full-time high school student, and who is not self-
supporting, until the time the child completes the 12th grade
or attains the age of 19 years, whichever occurs first.

(b) Nothing in this section limits a parent's ability to agree
to provide additional support or the court's power to
inquire whether an agreement to provide additional support
has been made.

3902. The court may direct that an allowance be made to the parent
of a child for whom support may be ordered out of the child's
property for the child's past or future support, on
conditions that are proper, if the direction is for the
child's benefit.

The child is graduating from high school in June or May of this year,
although she will be just short of her 17th birthday (her mother
inadvisedly skipped her a grade!). This child was, unfortunately, the
product of a paternity suit, with the mother using the pregnancy as an
ultimatum for marriage to me. No visitation was requested, and the child
grew up pretty much fatherless. If I continue paying support, it would
instead be to the child rather than to her reckless and conniving mother.

Here is my problem: I live overseas in a developing country. I make
$13,800 a year net (of course, I'd make 4-5 times that amount living and
working in the U.S. in the same job, but my foreign national did not want
to live in the U.S....go figure). The costs involved in dealing with a
lawyer and the court in ENSURING that this order for support was
officially terminated would be predictably considerable. I once had a
lawyer tell me I must have been kidding asking him for a consult given my
yearly income as a grad student, so I think I speak from some experience.

Is it a mistake to assume that the 18th birthday comes and the mother gets
indignant and asks the judge why I have stopped paying her for a child
that has reached majority?



================ Relevant Text of Child Support Court Order ========


Filed 6 Aug 1990

JUDGMENT FOR REIMBURSEMENT OF WELFARE FUNDS AND CHILD SUPPORT BY
STIPULATION

It is hereby order and adjudged that:

1. mother's name and Defendant are the parents of child's name,
born child's DOB

2. Defendant pay $xxx to reimburse county name for AFDC benefits
provided for specified period

3. Defendant pay $139 per month for child support beginning July 1, 1990,
and continuing until terminated by operation of law or further order of
the Court. All payments are due on the first day of each month;

4. The child support and reimbursement of AFDC provided for in this
stipulation meets or exceeds the minimum child support provided for by the
Agnos Child Support Standards Act of 1984. The Defendant acknowledges
that the right to support has been assigned to county name pursuant
Welfare & Instiutions Code Section 11477. The support amount in this
stipulation is based upon a determination that the net monthly disposable
income for the parents is as follows:

Custodial parent: $ -0-
Non-custodial parent (Defendant) $ 769.73

5. A Wage Assignment shall issue;

6. Defendant pay $-0- for attorney fees and $-0- for court costs;

7. Defendant make all payments to the County Name District Attorney,
Family Support Division with case number YY-XXXX on any check or money
order;

8. Defendant notify the Family Support Division with ten (10) days of any
change in address, employment, or termination of medical insurance for the
child;

9. Defendant maintain medical insurance for the child whenever it is
available through employment, or other medical group insurance;

10. All medical reimbursement rights for the care of the child which are
not paid by the Defendant are assigned to the County Name pursuant to
Civil Code Sec. 4358.5.

11. The District Attorney shall enforce this order.

12. Each party understands that the Court has continuing authority to make
an order increasing or decreasing the amount of support payments. You
have the right to request that the support be decreased or eliminated
entirely.






  #8  
Old February 5th 06, 09:15 PM posted to alt.child-support
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Posts: n/a
Default Confused About County DCSS Collection


"SMH" wrote in message ...
"Moon Shyne" said in alt.child-support:

"SMH" wrote in message
...

The child upon whom I pay support turns 18 in late June 2007, so I
asked the county DCSS in California when my last payment is supposed
to be, because I mail 12 post-dated checks from abroad each year,
which they cash each month.

Oddly enough, the county DCSS told me that they have orders not to
collect on my account beyond 1 Feb 2007, and that any money I send to
them comes back to me or goes to arrears (there are no arrears).

That is about 3-4 months before the child turns 18.

What is the deal with this?

I can hardly believe that my monthly support stops short of the
child's 18th birthday. Do I send the money instead directly to the
child's mother? Because that's what I am planning on doing.

The last thing I want is for the family law court judge to be
summoning me before his bench asking me why I stopped paying a few
months short of the time of the child reaching majority.

A child is a minor until the 18th b'day in California, right? And
the CA Family Code pretty much says I have to support the "minor"
child. Anyone want to be a lawyer here? Thanks.




First let me thank all who have provided helpful advice and questions.



Why not sent the appropriate number of checks to cover until the month
in which the child turns 18?



I will have to send the payments directly to the mother.


Bad idea. Send it to DCSS, so they have it in their records. Anything sent directly to the mother is not accounted
for, and can be considered a gift.



DCSS has said it will return any money to me beyond that. They are
apparently washing their hands of this case.


You should have a copy of the order for child suport that the county
has - what does it say?


Yes, I have entered the original order below. Clause 3 seems to be the
relevant clause. (By the way the support award listed there has been
increased SUBSTANTIALLY since the original order in modified orders, which
only changed the support amount.)

It says that I have to pay "until terminated by operation of law" or
further order of the Court.

Do I need a lawyer to interpret "operation of law"?


No. It means you need a court order, cancelling the order to pay child support. You can file the motion yourself, get
a court date, and represent yourself. You simply present to the judge, "Here's the court order, here's what it says,
I'm here to have it terminated."

Refer to the last paragraph. You have the right to have the order terminated. Avail yourself of that right.


  #9  
Old February 5th 06, 09:59 PM posted to alt.child-support
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Posts: n/a
Default Confused About County DCSS Collection


"Moon Shyne" wrote
"SMH" wrote

Do I need a lawyer to interpret "operation of law"?


No. It means you need a court order, cancelling the order to pay child
support. You can file the motion yourself, get a court date, and
represent yourself. You simply present to the judge, "Here's the court
order, here's what it says, I'm here to have it terminated."

Refer to the last paragraph. You have the right to have the order
terminated. Avail yourself of that right.

==
She is correct and you might not even need to appear. Ask the court if you
can appear telephonically.
==


  #10  
Old February 6th 06, 11:29 PM posted to alt.child-support
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Posts: n/a
Default Confused About County DCSS Collection

Telephonically?










 




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