when isnt a spanking neccesary?

dessi wrote:
Amanda wrote:
dessi wrote:
i fell that children should only be spanked at the times where the
child is putting themself into a dangerous situation.where many people
spank for not following directions the first time given or not going to
bed on time or not eating all their dinner.give some advise or feedback
In my opinion, spanking should always be avoided. I think it's the
wrong thing t do.
Amanda

are you a parent? if so how many children do you have?

Would you insist your doctor, before having the authority to treat you,
have suffered all the diseases that his patients present with?

If I want to know the brain activity of a child under various
conditions, honest, I'll ask a research neurologist, not you, not a parent.

So, tell us, on what grounds is spanking supportable?

Parents aren't professionals.

They do the best they can, and the best they can do, often, turns out to
be study and learn from sources other than their own experience.

I've heard even professionals in many fields do that.

The idea parents know best because they have done it for a long time
means that every new parent would have to start over. And each would be
an amateur, as all parents are at first.

Spanking, (corporal punishment) as a choice, has more risks attached to
it than any other parenting teaching tool, with the possible exception
of mental cruelty.

0:-

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

dessi wrote:
Amanda wrote:
dessi wrote:
i fell that children should only be spanked at the times where the
child is putting themself into a dangerous situation.where many people
spank for not following directions the first time given or not going to
bed on time or not eating all their dinner.give some advise or feedback

In my opinion, spanking should always be avoided. I think it's the
wrong thing t do.
Amanda

are you a parent? if so how many children do you have?

Yes, I`m a mother. I have a boy, 14, and a girl, 12. Good kids! They
drive me crazy sometimes, but are wonderful kids.

Amanda

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 00:38:07 -0700, "0:-"
wrote:

But parents that simply don't indulge in the 'punishment' model and go
with the supportive, coaching, corrective, validate wanted behavior
model consistently have high scores of compliance...in fact,
"compliance" is usually NOT even tracked, though COOPERATION is noted.

It is so evident to me when I see how kids react to these supportive
measures. Kids are learning. They won't be perfect and they will
make mistakes, but by accepting and validating their feelings, guiding
them to acceptable alternatives, kids learn how to make good choices
and how to comply with legitimate authority while questioning
illegitimate authority.



--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

On 22 Jul 2006 09:33:43 -0700, "dessi"
wrote:


Amanda wrote:
dessi wrote:
i fell that children should only be spanked at the times where the
child is putting themself into a dangerous situation.where many people
spank for not following directions the first time given or not going to
bed on time or not eating all their dinner.give some advise or feedback

In my opinion, spanking should always be avoided. I think it's the
wrong thing t do.
Amanda

are you a parent? if so how many children do you have?

I know Amanda is a parent, but I will answer for myself. I am parent
of two grown children raised *mostly* non-punitively though as a young
parent, I did make some mistakes with this. I am a grandparent to two
children who are also being raised non-punitively. I also have taught
both in high school and in preschools. In all of my teaching,
corporal punishment was most certainly not allowed (never taught in
the schools where it was allowed and would not want to do that). All
of my students responded much more to positive methods anyway.

My dgd is extremely strong-willed, but cooperation is elicited by
giving her good choices that get her needs met and she is a very
polite and thoughtful child though, of course, she is not perfect.
Acknowledging children's real feelings goes a long way toward allowing
them to build cooperation with you.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

toto wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 00:38:07 -0700, "0:-"
wrote:

But parents that simply don't indulge in the 'punishment' model and go
with the supportive, coaching, corrective, validate wanted behavior
model consistently have high scores of compliance...in fact,
"compliance" is usually NOT even tracked, though COOPERATION is noted.

It is so evident to me when I see how kids react to these supportive
measures. Kids are learning. They won't be perfect and they will
make mistakes, but by accepting and validating their feelings, guiding
them to acceptable alternatives, kids learn how to make good choices
and how to comply with legitimate authority while questioning
illegitimate authority.

Egad, we could end up with a whole country full of responsible assertive
citizens.

ALARUM ALARUM! Run out the guns. Up the mizzen. All hands on deck.

0:-]

People that have been raising their children this way to my knowledge
for the past 40 years (I was one) know of which you speak. I know a lot
of them and I'm hard pressed to find ONE bad apple in these children as
now adults.

And I know hundreds of them personally and more less so.

Kane


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

toto wrote:
On 22 Jul 2006 09:33:43 -0700, "dessi"
wrote:

Amanda wrote:
dessi wrote:
i fell that children should only be spanked at the times where the
child is putting themself into a dangerous situation.where many people
spank for not following directions the first time given or not going to
bed on time or not eating all their dinner.give some advise or feedback
In my opinion, spanking should always be avoided. I think it's the
wrong thing t do.
Amanda
are you a parent? if so how many children do you have?

I know Amanda is a parent, but I will answer for myself. I am parent
of two grown children raised *mostly* non-punitively though as a young
parent, I did make some mistakes with this. I am a grandparent to two
children who are also being raised non-punitively. I also have taught
both in high school and in preschools. In all of my teaching,
corporal punishment was most certainly not allowed (never taught in
the schools where it was allowed and would not want to do that). All
of my students responded much more to positive methods anyway.

My dgd is extremely strong-willed, but cooperation is elicited by
giving her good choices that get her needs met and she is a very
polite and thoughtful child though, of course, she is not perfect.
Acknowledging children's real feelings goes a long way toward allowing
them to build cooperation with you.

I see a problem here, Dorothy.

I know, and YOU know, when you say, "Acknowledging children's real
feelings," what you mean.

But those that come from a punitive approach imagine all kinds of
soft-heading indulgent permissive careless nonsense taking place.

Do you know how few people KNOW what actively listening means? They
think it means listening "hard and attentively."

No idea about reflecting the thoughts and feelings of the other person
for a check and validation.

For you it comes as second nature, I'm sure.

It did for me after only a few weeks of practicing what I learned about it.

Do they WANT to know?

I doubt it. The belief in spanking is founded in the distrust inherent
"others are naturally evil or malicious and they will take advantage if
you let them."

Have you read Greg's posts?

He described a child he "cared for" until CPS removed her and placed her
with her G'parents, in just this way. And chose "aversion" methods to
stop her willful wetting of her pants. At 6 years old.

0:-

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

Doan wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jul 2006, toto wrote:

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 00:38:07 -0700, "0:-"
wrote:

But parents that simply don't indulge in the 'punishment' model and go
with the supportive, coaching, corrective, validate wanted behavior
model consistently have high scores of compliance...in fact,
"compliance" is usually NOT even tracked, though COOPERATION is noted.
It is so evident to me when I see how kids react to these supportive
measures. Kids are learning. They won't be perfect and they will
make mistakes, but by accepting and validating their feelings, guiding
them to acceptable alternatives, kids learn how to make good choices
and how to comply with legitimate authority while questioning
illegitimate authority.

And how are they any better than kids whose parents used an occasional
spanking when needed?

Overall, yes.

Are your kids any better than Tiger Woods, Martin
L. Kings, Ted Turner?

Anecdotal. Comparisons to people we know only by reputation do NOT tell
us what they are like personally. Morals, honesty, social conscience,
personal relationship integrity.

And while I don't know about Woods, I assure you that MLK, despite my
admiration for what he accomplished was not a nice man. Ted Turner?
Hmmm...I don't care for his politics, thanks.

Or are you, as one anti-spanking zealotS already
did, going to claim that Albert Einstein was "never-spanked"? ;-)

Are you going to claim he was? His parents were remarkable for their
permissiveness and indulgence of him. It's far more likely he wasn't
than he was.

And he TOO had some traits that were less than admirable. So I call it a
draw, until you prove your claim he was spanked.

It is well known that normally one cannot prove a negative. YOUR claim
is a "positive."

I'm waiting for your proof...and have been for about three years now.

0:-


Doan


In fact you offer little proof of anything, other than worn out long
disproved nonsense.

You won't, and can't, deal with the recent research that showed poorer
outcomes for spanked children even in societies where CP was the
cultural norm.

Cat got your tongue?

0:-


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

On 23 Jul 2006, Amanda wrote:


dessi wrote:
Amanda wrote:
dessi wrote:
i fell that children should only be spanked at the times where the
child is putting themself into a dangerous situation.where many people
spank for not following directions the first time given or not going to
bed on time or not eating all their dinner.give some advise or feedback

In my opinion, spanking should always be avoided. I think it's the
wrong thing t do.
Amanda

are you a parent? if so how many children do you have?

Yes, I`m a mother. I have a boy, 14, and a girl, 12. Good kids! They
drive me crazy sometimes, but are wonderful kids.

I heard the same thing from a spanking mother, how are your kids
different? Are they growing up to be role model like Tiger Woods?

Doan

On Mon, 24 Jul 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jul 2006, toto wrote:

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 00:38:07 -0700, "0:-"
wrote:

But parents that simply don't indulge in the 'punishment' model and go
with the supportive, coaching, corrective, validate wanted behavior
model consistently have high scores of compliance...in fact,
"compliance" is usually NOT even tracked, though COOPERATION is noted.
It is so evident to me when I see how kids react to these supportive
measures. Kids are learning. They won't be perfect and they will
make mistakes, but by accepting and validating their feelings, guiding
them to acceptable alternatives, kids learn how to make good choices
and how to comply with legitimate authority while questioning
illegitimate authority.

And how are they any better than kids whose parents used an occasional
spanking when needed?

Overall, yes.

Base on what?

Are your kids any better than Tiger Woods, Martin
L. Kings, Ted Turner?

Anecdotal. Comparisons to people we know only by reputation do NOT tell
us what they are like personally. Morals, honesty, social conscience,
personal relationship integrity.

If you want to question their morality, go ahead. They are public
figures, their lives are more scrutinized then the average persons,
especially in this modern age.

And while I don't know about Woods, I assure you that MLK, despite my
admiration for what he accomplished was not a nice man. Ted Turner?
Hmmm...I don't care for his politics, thanks.

MLK was not a nice man? What politics has to do with it? Ted Turner gave
BILLIONS (not a "miniscule" amount) to help other people in the world.
What has any "never-spanked" kid like you done? ;-)

Or are you, as one anti-spanking zealotS already
did, going to claim that Albert Einstein was "never-spanked"? ;-)

Are you going to claim he was? His parents were remarkable for their
permissiveness and indulgence of him. It's far more likely he wasn't
than he was.

The probability is high that he was.

And he TOO had some traits that were less than admirable. So I call it a
draw, until you prove your claim he was spanked.

So he was "never-spanked", according to you, and yet still "less than
admirable"?

It is well known that normally one cannot prove a negative. YOUR claim
is a "positive."

I'm waiting for your proof...and have been for about three years now.

Already had. It's called probability - 90+%!

0:-


Doan


In fact you offer little proof of anything, other than worn out long
disproved nonsense.

That sounds like you! ;-)

You won't, and can't, deal with the recent research that showed poorer
outcomes for spanked children even in societies where CP was the
cultural norm.

Hihihi! What research?

Cat got your tongue?

Did you ask you mom? ;-)

AF

0:-


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

Doan wrote:
On 23 Jul 2006, Amanda wrote:

dessi wrote:
Amanda wrote:
dessi wrote:
i fell that children should only be spanked at the times where the
child is putting themself into a dangerous situation.where many people
spank for not following directions the first time given or not going to
bed on time or not eating all their dinner.give some advise or feedback
In my opinion, spanking should always be avoided. I think it's the
wrong thing t do.
Amanda
are you a parent? if so how many children do you have?
Yes, I`m a mother. I have a boy, 14, and a girl, 12. Good kids! They
drive me crazy sometimes, but are wonderful kids.

I heard the same thing from a spanking mother, how are your kids
different? Are they growing up to be role model like Tiger Woods?

You know Woods personally do you, and can vouch for his integrity in all
things?

Gosh, OJ was once a role model, monkeyboy.

Doan

And children raised as she has raised hers will very likely BE a role
model, and a good one, for their own children first, where it matters most.

Popular role models too often turn out to have feet of clay.
There is nothing particularly valuable to society in being a golfer, or
other sports hero.

In fact, we have an inordinate fascination with them and a lack of
sufficient interest in real contributors to society.

We prove it by what we pay one and not the other.

Logic and Doan, strangers to the end.

0:-




--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)