128 students suspended at Ind. school

"toypup" wrote in message
m...

"nimue" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Jeff wrote:
(Religious headcoverings are exempt.) No
pajamas. And nothing likely to damage school property. (Cleats on
shoes or hard metal trimmings on clothing.) The code concludes with
something like "If in doubt, don't wear it."

Look, there are some good ideas here, but when you try to enforce this,
you
will find that members of the school staff interpret these rules
differently. I guess my main point is I don't want anyone missing class
because her shirt is low cut.

That is why at our school, the rules are very specific. The shirts have
to tuck in and stay in when the arms are raised, no exceptions. The
skirts can be no shorter than the middle finger when the arms are by the
sides, no exceptions. The shorts can be no longer than 2 inches below the
knees nor shorter than the middle finger when the arms are by the side and
they cannot be more than 4 inches wider than the knee and they can't be
tight and they must be hemmed. If they are cuffed, they must be hemmed to
stay cuffed. The rules fill an entire page in very small print. If you
wonder if they are enforced, yes they most definitely are.


My gosh that just seems so.......... difficult. I still think a uniform is
the best and easiest.

Jen

On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 04:13:44 GMT, "toypup"
wrote:


She could have spent the money she spent on her illegal outfit for something
that conformed to the school rules. That she did not do that and now must
pay for another outfit is her problem. However, I did used to shop at
Goodwill when we were poor and clothing was 25 cents a pound, literally.
Maybe it's more now, but it can't be much and I'm sure she could find
appropriate clothing there.

Goodwill *used* to be a good place to shop for second-hand clothing.
It's less expensive to buy off clearance racks for new items than used
at Goodwill anymore.

Nan

wrote in message
oups.com...

Jen wrote:
wrote in message


Why mini loads? Do you wash hers separately to yours and everyone elses?
I don't understand. I find I need to do a full load almost every day,
and I
know other people who do even more.

There are 3 people in our family. I don't do laundry every day.

Same here. You might not need to do it every day. But every second day
would be enough, with out having to buy heaps of clothes. That's what I
find anyway.

Jen

"nimue" wrote in message
...
L. wrote:
nimue wrote:

Clearly they are NOT -- they are for teaching kids the appropriate
way to dress -- as teenagers!! In high school!! How does wearing
baggy pants affect a child's education? Why must we always be
controlling, controlling, controlling these kids? This sends the
message that we care more about what you look like than if you
learn, that appearance is more important than education. I don't
give a **** what my students are wearing as long as they are in
class!!!! Let them have their little teenage nonsense. Let them
know they can BE THEMSELVES and still learn, still enjoy learning!

ITA. I will refuse to send DS to a school that has a dress code,
other than for safety reasons. This kind of crap is petty and
ridiculous, and it squelches individual expression and creativity.


I would hate for my daughter to go to a school without a uniform, individual
expression and creativity in the choice of clothes, should be at home, not
school. It seems to me it would be so hard *to keep up with the Joneses*.
The kids that have more money would wear the more expensive and fashionable
clothes, the poorer kids would have difficulty. Wearing a uniform you can
get away with wearing clothes for 2 days, occasionally more- with casual
clothes, it would be obvious, and the pressure would be on to change daily.
I think there's a lot of good reasons for uniforms. Like someone else said,
it just needs to be a specific colour even.

Jen

wrote:
snip

But, in any case, you presumably are aware of the dress code. If a
denim skirt isn't permitted, presumably some other sort of skirt of
acceptable legnth is permitted. (In a fabric that would be far cooler
than denim.)

Oh, no, a denim skirt is fine. The skirt's length created the issue. It
ended just above her knee and was completely appropriate, imo. In the
opinion of the dean, the girl looked inappropriate. It's this kind of thing
that drives me crazy. There are teachers and administrators who wear
shorter skirts. This just turned into a bullying opportunity for the dean
and I was damned if I was going to see this kid -- who looked fine -- miss
her class.

If she can't wear a tank top, surely she can wear a
short sleeved blouse or polo.

Again, she looked fine and teachers and administrators where sleeveless
shirts all the time. They look appropriate and so did this modest tank top
on this teenage girl.

Naomi

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah

wrote:
snip

No hats or
bandanas or heavy coats.

Uh, what if it's cold?

If the school is so cold that you have to walk around in a parka,
there is probably something wrong with the heating, and the school
would be aware of it.

The school's not. It's that cold outside. Not everyone has a car, you
know. Our kids take the subway or the bus to school. They walk to the
subway or the bus and then they walk to school. They have no lockers.
Therefore, they can have their coats. That has never been a part of our
dress code. I did once work in a room that had no heat and that was never
fixed.

(Shaina's middle school was overly abundantly
air conditioned. She often wore a light jacket or sweater, and that
was fine. The idea is that when you come inside, you take off your
outdoor gear and put it in your locker.)

No school I have worked in had lockers for the kids.

(Religious headcoverings are exempt.) No
pajamas. And nothing likely to damage school property. (Cleats on
shoes or hard metal trimmings on clothing.) The code concludes with
something like "If in doubt, don't wear it."

Look, there are some good ideas here, but when you try to enforce
this, you will find that members of the school staff interpret these
rules differently. I guess my main point is I don't want anyone
missing class because her shirt is low cut.

Last year at the middle school graduation, several girls showed up in
dresses that did not meet the dress code. (Mostly of the 'spagetti
straps' or 'low cut' flavor.) They were all handed shawls to cover
their shoulders with until the end of the ceremony. (At which point it
was no longer a 'school event' and all bets were off.)

But again, the basic summary -- when in doubt, don't wear it, together
with a little common sense, SHOULD cover most eventualities.


Still plenty of room there for 'individual expression.' Oh, and
cell phones have to be off during school hours.

That sounds reasonable. In NYC, the kids aren't allowed to have
cell phones at all. Last spring, the cops did sweeps in schools and
netted hundreds of cell phones. I thought it was a ridiculous and
offensive waste of time.

The rule may actually ban them completely, but as long as they are in
your pocket, and off, there is no way the teacher would know you have
them. (Many kids [including mine] DO carry them to school. It's handy
if she needs to call me after school to let me know I need to pick her
up for some reason.)

Naomi

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah

Barbara wrote:
nimue wrote:
Barbara wrote:
nimue wrote:
Jen wrote:
"nimue" wrote in message
...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060827/..._st/dress_code

128 students suspended at Ind. school
Classrooms were a little less crowded at Morton High School on
the first day
of classes: 128 students were sent home for wearing the wrong
clothes.


Why not a proper uniform, with a range of things to cover lots of
tastes and individuality, but not turning it into a fashion show.

Jen

Well, in NYC the public schools cannot mandate uniforms. Even if
we could, I don't know if I think they are such a good idea.

Really? I am aware of several public schools in NYC that have
mandated, well, if not uniforms, the closest thing to it.

Sounds like a charter school. I teach at a public school. We can
have uniforms, but we cannot require them. Kids can opt out, so
what's the point?

Sorry, no. Neither one is a charter school. Both are public schools
in marginal neighborhoods. And to the best of my knowledge, kids
cannot opt out in either school.

Which schools? This is news to me, sister. I think you may be mistaken. My
principal would love to have uniforms, but we don't because the kids can
opt out. So, which schools?


Barbara

One's best
friend is in a G&T program that requires the kids to wear yellow
polo shirts and blue bottoms (pants or skirts). A middle school
that I pass on my way to work has mandated white shirts and dark
bottoms (no jeans). At least with respect to the middle school,
the policy was instituted at the behest of the parents.

Barbara

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more
books than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah

toypup wrote:
"nimue" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Jeff wrote:
(Religious headcoverings are exempt.) No
pajamas. And nothing likely to damage school property. (Cleats on
shoes or hard metal trimmings on clothing.) The code concludes with
something like "If in doubt, don't wear it."

Look, there are some good ideas here, but when you try to enforce
this, you
will find that members of the school staff interpret these rules
differently. I guess my main point is I don't want anyone missing
class because her shirt is low cut.

That is why at our school, the rules are very specific. The shirts
have to tuck in and stay in when the arms are raised, no exceptions.
The skirts can be no shorter than the middle finger when the arms are
by the sides, no exceptions. The shorts can be no longer than 2
inches below the knees nor shorter than the middle finger when the
arms are by the side and they cannot be more than 4 inches wider than
the knee and they can't be tight and they must be hemmed. If they
are cuffed, they must be hemmed to stay cuffed. The rules fill an
entire page in very small print. If you wonder if they are enforced,
yes they most definitely are.

Enforced how? Are kids sent home to change? Do they miss class if they
violate the dress code? That kind of enforcement is just downright stupid
in my book. Give 'em detention if you must, but keep them in class.

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah

wrote:
nimue wrote:
Banty wrote:
In article , nimue

What I'm really trying to get at, though, is whether you're more up
in arms about the dress code, or the punishment.

The punishment, absolutely. It is idiotic and counter-productive to
take a kid out of class as a punishment. We are desperately trying
to get them to learn! Why the hell would we take them out of class
if we want them in class? It makes no sense.

Becauase much of the justification for dress codes is that they ban
clothing that is distracting to OTHER students. So, if the kid stays
in class, she prevents 29 students from learning. If she is sent
home, only one kid is prevented from learning.

Oh, please. That is ridiculous. What would you do if your son came home and
said, "I couldn't learn because there was a girl in a low cut blouse in
school today"? What would you tell him? These kids see baggy pants and
low-cut tops ALL THE TIME. The "distracting" images in videos sure don't
prevent them from learning the lyrics to rap songs. Trust me, your daughter
can learn even if there is a boy in baggy pants in the classroom.


Naomi

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah

toypup wrote:
"nimue" wrote in message
...
Banty wrote:
In article , nimue
says...


The problem with the dress code is that kids in perfectly
respectable outfits are sent home. In fact, it's usually the
girls who are sent home, at least in my school. I have argued
with deans that tell me that a young girl in a tank top and a jean
skirt that stops just above the knee should be sent home because
she is violating dress code. I tell them it's hot; we have no air
conditioning, and this kid is going to miss her first period
English exam. It makes me sick.

And whose problem is that?

It's her problem and it's the school's problem. If this kid fails
her Regents, WE pay. Thanks No Child Left Behind. Anyway, this kid
(I am thinking of a specific case) looked totally fine to me. She
just wound up embarrassed and crying because she was told she looked
inappropriate, and she was told this by a male dean. It's really
easy to make high school girls feel terrible about themselves and
that is what happened here -- and for NOTHING! She looked fine!
There was nothing slutty or even inappropriate about her tank top or
her jean skirt.

It was against school rules. I have a hard time believing she didn't
know what the rules are.


I don't. I had never heard of the freaking dress code and I had worked
there nearly a year. The dress code materialized (no pun intended) in the
spring. I actually never saw a printed copy of it. Anyway, she looked
totally decent.


She can't stock up on a few light cotton
short sleeve tops for school? The dress code is distributed to all
students, right? (In our district, the parents have to sign it so
there are no plaintive excuses about unseen policies).

Actually, our kids are Title 1 kids -- poor. Very poor. We are
dealing with a whole mess of issues here. Was the dress code
distributed? Maybe.

Don't you know? It's your school. I'll be it was distributed.

I never saw the memo.

If
not, you can take that task over.

Well, since I have nothing else to do...

You can read it over the PA system
to make sure those kids who don't read can understand it.

Yes, I want to take up class time with that announcement.

Did the kids read it and understand it? Maybe. Could their parents?
Maybe. Could they afford to buy new clothes? Maybe.

She could have spent the money she spent on her illegal outfit for
something that conformed to the school rules.

Ugh. "Illegal outfit." You sound like the dean, traumatizing a sweet kid
who looked decent. This outfit was probably a hand-me-down.

That she did not do
that and now must pay for another outfit is her problem. However, I
did used to shop at Goodwill when we were poor and clothing was 25
cents a pound, literally. Maybe it's more now, but it can't be much
and I'm sure she could find appropriate clothing there.

Shouldn't we be
focusing on keeping these kids in class and learning? Definitely.

If they are motivated to learn, they will conform to the dress code.
Kids who don't want to learn won't learn and tend to be disruptive.
Find a way to motivate them and they will conform to the dress code
like everyone else.

Come teach a day in my inner city school. Please. Clothing is not
disruptive. Behavior is. I have had disruptive kids who were totally
covered and girls in tight t-shirts who always did their homework. Have you
ever worked in a school?

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah