Worried foster care parents in revolt over new rules

Greegor wrote:
Psychologists who don't get paid by the state?

Where do you find those?

In the phone book.

But we aren't talking "the state" here, rather CPS.


Pluto?


The phone book.

MOST of the money psychologists get comes
from Medicaid.

So? Do you think they wouldn't get paid if they gave a "passing" psych
eval? (that's not how it works folks, but Greg's deliberate ignorance by
running from a psych eval himself reduces my commentary to
non-professional language).

Don't be stupid Greg. Even the ones that do take CPS clients aren't the
least dependent on what they report....all have far more work than they
can handle.

And as far as I know, Medicaid does not pay for psych evals for client
cases through CPS.


It's like asking for psychologists who do psych evals
but not for the agencies.


You have yet, except by your limp claims, to provide any evidence that
they would be inclined to report what the agency wants.

Or ever that the agency necessarily wants something not in the best
interests of the child.

You have nothing but anecdotal sources and we know how reliable those
are in the anti-CPS anti-Government world.

Ask the ones who DON'T DO psych evals why they don't!

You just claimed they all do.

Which is it, Greg?

The answer would be simply, stupid, "not my specialty, I prefer
'Industrial Psychology'", or "I'm a counseling psychologist, thanks
anyway...way to busy for more work."

Your innuendo, all that you have ever posted, proceeds you like a
stinking pile of dog ****, which of course you produced your little own
self.

0:-

Greg wrote
The sky is blue.

Dan wrote
Citations, Greg.

Greegor wrote:
Greg wrote
The sky is blue.

Dan wrote
Citations, Greg.

Proof he said that to your claim the sky was blue, Greg.

Thanks.

Kane

"giovinazzo" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hey Ron, the case workers do lie to you foster parents....that is what
you are right?

I am indeed a foster parent. But I have never been lied to by a caseworker.
I have had them refuse to answer questions, tell me that they are not
allowed to tell me, and just stare me in the eye, but never lied to. Not
after more than 200 foster children.

The point I was making is that the case managers are not allowed to tell us
specifics of the case's we provide care for. We CAN go to the court
hearings and listen to what is said, we can also speak with the kids. We
can also network with other foster parents who may have cared for the
children in the past, or read accounts of the case in the news paper (i.e.
Parent 'A' was arrested for child abuse, 4 children all in care). About the
same as everyone else I guess. We can also talk to teachers, doctors,
therapists, and other professionals associated with the case since we are
now providing care for the child and have a valid need for the information.

Well my case worker told the foster parents my kids are
abused, didn't tell them that they are an at risk group of children
that I have never done anything to my children, though my kids have
told the fosters that mom never hits them and hasn't done anything to
hurt them.

More likely the foster parent was told that they were removed for abuse.
Not the same thing. They were not told specifics of the case, but reasons
for removal is information we as foster care providers need to properly care
for the children.

My kids are good about that, they tell the foster parents
everyday how they want to come home. I hear it as there is one good
foster parent. The other however calls my oldest her birth daughter
which is a lie....

I find that difficult to believe, but not completely impossible. Now, there
are less than stellar foster parents out there, and some who should never
have been given a license, but CPS cant tell who those are until they are in
the system working with kids. All the tests in the world are never going to
be able to screen out all the improper foster parents, it just cant happen,
but they do what they can.

One must also remember that kids do not always tell the truth. The older
the child the more complex the untruth. She may be responding to your state
of emotion and is telling you what you want to hear, trying to make you feel
better. More investigation on your part is warranted before you go making
claims based on what your children are telling you.

Yes some kids are abused but alot are not.

From your previous posts I'd say you are in Canada, right?

Here, most of the children in the system are not physically abused. More
are neglected than abused. Neglect kills more children in this country than
does abuse.

Here they remove children
in my case biggest issue because I was a crown ward and went through
abuse as a child. Did you suffer abuse as a chilD? If so watch
out....you won't be allowed kids if you let them know, after all as
their steretype goes we will possibly abuse our own children.

Did I? I'm sure that at the time I would have said yes, but all in all my
mom did a pretty good job raising 3 boys on her own.

Not even in Canada is that enough reason to remove your children. Sorry,
there is more to the case that you are not telling us. Not that you have
to, privacy is your right, but to expect us to believe that this is the sole
reason your children have been removed says that you think we are a bunch of
idiots. gregg may be, but the rest of us (Doan and Doug included) are not.

What a stupid childish way for them to think, just because it happened
to me doesn't mean im going to do it. Just like the idoit that breaks
your door down and steals from you, doesn't mean you are going to go
out and do it does it?

Sorry had bad experience with foster parents of my autistic son, they
kept lying to the cas so they could keep my son.

I know there is the odd good one but more abusive foster homes.

Here in the US the facts do not support your position. There are far more
good foster homes than abusive ones. 20 years ago I was not a foster parent
so I cant vouch for what happened in the system then, but as of right now
your theory would be incorrect.

Anyway fact is they do lie...they want you on their side not ours.

Lisa

I'm not on anyone's side but the kids Lisa. I don't interact with the case
managers much, other than to get what the children need from the system or
to get instructions concerning visitation and the like. In any case I am
certainly not on the side of the State. I have run into more than my share
of ****-poor case managers, and I usually end up going to supervisors or
directors to get the children's needs met. I am also a professional in the
field, and get a chance to interact with vast numbers of children in the
system in my state. Most are quite happy where they are, some are not.
Usually its the kids in the group homes that have issues with their care
providers. That stand to reason since the kids in these types of placements
are not suited to placement in actual foster homes by reason of temperament
or psychological problems.

Ron


Greegor wrote:
Ron wrote
caseworkers don't lie to us

They've been CAUGHT AT IT Ron!

Ron wrote
It is not the place of the foster parents to judge the reasons for
removal. We don't have all the information, we were not there, we
don't
have the training and in most cases the education to make these
judgments.
That's what caseworkers are for. And the police of course.

Isn't that the argument the death camp guards and villagers used?

Plus you implied that caseworkers DO have the training or
education to know diddly, which even KANE acknowledges
is not true.

Ron wrote
3. Most removals for "At Risk" children are made by law enforcement
officers. Not caseworkers. I notice that both of you tend to place
all the
blame on the caseworkers, when in fact in many cases they just get
handed a
case by the police and the actual removal has already been made.
Interesting that you don't blame the officers for making these
decisions.

I do, but the CPS agency justifies to itself MAINTAINING
dominion and control over the children. The cops are
not responsible for the months of foot dragging by the agencies.
Dominion and Control over a child is the legal issue for good reason.

Lisa, Ron knows that Fosters who adopted kids have
been lied to so much and so badly that there was
a RASH of law suits because some of these kids
were a DANGER to other kids in Foster Care and beyond.

The cliche' story is that after adopting a kid they find
out the kid is a sexual predator or has dangerous
psychiatric problems and molests their birth daughter
or later Foster kids. There have been several of
these reported in the news media and in some cases
there have been some HUGE damage settlements.

In the article at the tope of this message thread a
person representing Fosters puts forth the MYTH
that all the foster kids are "abused" which is
factually not true according to the government
statistics and the legal standards which only
require "AT RISK OF" abuse, not actual abuse.
"AT RISK OF" with no actual abuse accounts for
the VAST MAJORITY of kids in Foster Care.

The reps reference to the kids as all abused
didn't happen because the workers told
THEM the truth about "AT RISK OF" etc...

Did you notice how Dan and Kane resisted challenging you?

They still hope to claim you.

Once they find out they can't, they will be considerably
more confrontative when you testify about things like this.




Ron wrote:
"giovinazzo" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hey Ron, the case workers do lie to you foster parents....that is what
you are right?

I am indeed a foster parent. But I have never been lied to by a caseworker.
I have had them refuse to answer questions, tell me that they are not
allowed to tell me, and just stare me in the eye, but never lied to. Not
after more than 200 foster children.

The point I was making is that the case managers are not allowed to tell us
specifics of the case's we provide care for. We CAN go to the court
hearings and listen to what is said, we can also speak with the kids. We
can also network with other foster parents who may have cared for the
children in the past, or read accounts of the case in the news paper (i.e.
Parent 'A' was arrested for child abuse, 4 children all in care). About the
same as everyone else I guess. We can also talk to teachers, doctors,
therapists, and other professionals associated with the case since we are
now providing care for the child and have a valid need for the information.

Well my case worker told the foster parents my kids are
abused, didn't tell them that they are an at risk group of children
that I have never done anything to my children, though my kids have
told the fosters that mom never hits them and hasn't done anything to
hurt them.

More likely the foster parent was told that they were removed for abuse.
Not the same thing. They were not told specifics of the case, but reasons
for removal is information we as foster care providers need to properly care
for the children.

My kids are good about that, they tell the foster parents
everyday how they want to come home. I hear it as there is one good
foster parent. The other however calls my oldest her birth daughter
which is a lie....

I find that difficult to believe, but not completely impossible. Now, there
are less than stellar foster parents out there, and some who should never
have been given a license, but CPS cant tell who those are until they are in
the system working with kids. All the tests in the world are never going to
be able to screen out all the improper foster parents, it just cant happen,
but they do what they can.

One must also remember that kids do not always tell the truth. The older
the child the more complex the untruth. She may be responding to your state
of emotion and is telling you what you want to hear, trying to make you feel
better. More investigation on your part is warranted before you go making
claims based on what your children are telling you.

Yes some kids are abused but alot are not.

From your previous posts I'd say you are in Canada, right?

Here, most of the children in the system are not physically abused. More
are neglected than abused. Neglect kills more children in this country than
does abuse.

Here they remove children
in my case biggest issue because I was a crown ward and went through
abuse as a child. Did you suffer abuse as a chilD? If so watch
out....you won't be allowed kids if you let them know, after all as
their steretype goes we will possibly abuse our own children.

Did I? I'm sure that at the time I would have said yes, but all in all my
mom did a pretty good job raising 3 boys on her own.

Not even in Canada is that enough reason to remove your children. Sorry,
there is more to the case that you are not telling us. Not that you have
to, privacy is your right, but to expect us to believe that this is the sole
reason your children have been removed says that you think we are a bunch of
idiots. gregg may be, but the rest of us (Doan and Doug included) are not.

What a stupid childish way for them to think, just because it happened
to me doesn't mean im going to do it. Just like the idoit that breaks
your door down and steals from you, doesn't mean you are going to go
out and do it does it?

Sorry had bad experience with foster parents of my autistic son, they
kept lying to the cas so they could keep my son.

I know there is the odd good one but more abusive foster homes.

Here in the US the facts do not support your position. There are far more
good foster homes than abusive ones. 20 years ago I was not a foster parent
so I cant vouch for what happened in the system then, but as of right now
your theory would be incorrect.

Anyway fact is they do lie...they want you on their side not ours.

Lisa

I'm not on anyone's side but the kids Lisa. I don't interact with the case
managers much, other than to get what the children need from the system or
to get instructions concerning visitation and the like. In any case I am
certainly not on the side of the State. I have run into more than my share
of ****-poor case managers, and I usually end up going to supervisors or
directors to get the children's needs met. I am also a professional in the
field, and get a chance to interact with vast numbers of children in the
system in my state. Most are quite happy where they are, some are not.
Usually its the kids in the group homes that have issues with their care
providers. That stand to reason since the kids in these types of placements
are not suited to placement in actual foster homes by reason of temperament
or psychological problems.

Ron


Greegor wrote:
Ron wrote
caseworkers don't lie to us

They've been CAUGHT AT IT Ron!

Ron wrote
It is not the place of the foster parents to judge the reasons for
removal. We don't have all the information, we were not there, we
don't
have the training and in most cases the education to make these
judgments.
That's what caseworkers are for. And the police of course.

Isn't that the argument the death camp guards and villagers used?

Plus you implied that caseworkers DO have the training or
education to know diddly, which even KANE acknowledges
is not true.

Ron wrote
3. Most removals for "At Risk" children are made by law enforcement
officers. Not caseworkers. I notice that both of you tend to place
all the
blame on the caseworkers, when in fact in many cases they just get
handed a
case by the police and the actual removal has already been made.
Interesting that you don't blame the officers for making these
decisions.

I do, but the CPS agency justifies to itself MAINTAINING
dominion and control over the children. The cops are
not responsible for the months of foot dragging by the agencies.
Dominion and Control over a child is the legal issue for good reason.

Greegor wrote:
Lisa, Ron knows that Fosters who adopted kids have
been lied to so much and so badly that there was
a RASH of law suits because some of these kids
were a DANGER to other kids in Foster Care and beyond.

The cliche' story is that after adopting a kid they find
out the kid is a sexual predator or has dangerous
psychiatric problems and molests their birth daughter
or later Foster kids. There have been several of
these reported in the news media and in some cases
there have been some HUGE damage settlements.

First it's "a RASH," now it's "several."

Fact is it's very very few compared to the number of children adopted,
Greg.

And you have proof that the suing party is not lying how, Greg?

In the article at the tope of this message thread a
person representing Fosters puts forth the MYTH
that all the foster kids are "abused" which is
factually not true according to the government
statistics and the legal standards which only
require "AT RISK OF" abuse, not actual abuse.
"AT RISK OF" with no actual abuse accounts for
the VAST MAJORITY of kids in Foster Care.

This assumption of yours, perpetrated by others as well, is that "AT
RISK" mean not abused.

It does NOT mean that. The child could have been abused, and continue
to be AT RISK, hence it will say so in the record and be counted as
both.

Is it not logical to assume that if a child has been abused, and is not
removed or is returned they are at risk?

Do you know what "AT RISK" actually means, stupid? What those
conditions are that constitute cause to make such a determination?

One of them would be a live in boyfriend that has an inordinate amount
of time with the child or children UNSUPERVISED. Especially if he does
not work. Especially if he is charged with child care of the children.
That puts children at risk automatically, stupid. Those are the
circumstances that so often DO result in injury and sometimes death to
a child.

YOU like to use the media as a source, Greg. Try READING those cases.
You KNOW how common they are.

The reps reference to the kids as all abused
didn't happen because the workers told
THEM the truth about "AT RISK OF" etc...

What are you talking about?

Did you notice how Dan and Kane resisted challenging you?

Nope. The response to Lisa is continually an expression of hope she
will stay focused, something that Dan and I both know very well is
essential to winning a case, while we know that failure to do so, and
to become engaged with posters such as you, Greg, is almost a sure
death knell to a case.

You and your cronies have repeatedly been part of or celebrated failure
of families, to dance in their blood as a way of excusing your own
failures.

You are a predator.

They still hope to claim you.

Neither of us have the least profit in "claiming" anyone. There is no
money in it, and no need to make someone lose, as you have. Both Dan
and I are winners. He has won dozens of difficult and seemingly
impossible cases, while I have helped thousands of extended family sort
out and deal with CPS and keep their kin related children in the
family.

Once they find out they can't, they will be considerably
more confrontative when you testify about things like this.

That is a perfect projection, Greg.

Take Betty, for example. She caught on to you, when she first came here
with one of the classic Kinship cases I am so familiar with. You have
been flaming high dugeon ever since, attacking her at every turn, lying
through your teeth about here, threatening her repeatedly.

Abusive, mean, vindictive.

You have never seen Dan or I, when someone went down the wrong path
attack them, or in any way try to hurt them. And we have commiserated
with them sincerely over their loss rather than blame them.

Hell, YOU blame the winners, like Betty, but for things that are not
true.

All Lisa has to do is take ONE quick look at your posts and exchanges
with Betty to see how a strong person with a built in **** detector
sets you off into your rages.

You are a little ****ant. Nothing more.

Below is the string of posts attributed (slipping boy?) that shows what
a lying little **** you are. You took Ron's comment about not being
lied to by caseworkers and tried to make people believe other than what
he said at the time.

I have some comments, in fact, about Ron's post, from my 30Plus years
experience helping people deal with CPS successfully.

Read on, stupid: [[[ comments in square brackets as usual ]]]


Ron wrote:
"giovinazzo" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hey Ron, the case workers do lie to you foster parents....that is what
you are right?

I am indeed a foster parent. But I have never been lied to by a caseworker.
I have had them refuse to answer questions, tell me that they are not
allowed to tell me, and just stare me in the eye, but never lied to. Not
after more than 200 foster children.

[[[ He just eloquently described what I have pointed out to you and you
called "caseworker lying" little ****ant. They cannot tell what they
cannot tell. ]]]

The point I was making is that the case managers are not allowed to tell us
specifics of the case's we provide care for.

[[[ I have said in the past that to do so can be construed in court by
the opposition as collusion against the client. YOU have complained
that various opponents colluded against you, stupid. Now you lie about
why foster's are allowed to know some things directly from the
worker...calling the worker liar. ]]]

We CAN go to the court
hearings and listen to what is said, we can also speak with the kids. We
can also network with other foster parents who may have cared for the
children in the past, or read accounts of the case in the news paper (i.e.
Parent 'A' was arrested for child abuse, 4 children all in care). About the
same as everyone else I guess. We can also talk to teachers, doctors,
therapists, and other professionals associated with the case since we are
now providing care for the child and have a valid need for the information.

[[[ Less caring and effective foster parents don't bother with this as
Ron obviously does care and bother to do. ]]]

Well my case worker told the foster parents my kids are
abused, didn't tell them that they are an at risk group of children
that I have never done anything to my children, though my kids have
told the fosters that mom never hits them and hasn't done anything to
hurt them.

More likely the foster parent was told that they were removed for abuse.
Not the same thing. They were not told specifics of the case, but reasons
for removal is information we as foster care providers need to properly care
for the children.

[[[ That is accurate. Very. Less astute foster parents don't get it, or
complain about it because they do not understand it. ]]]


My kids are good about that, they tell the foster parents
everyday how they want to come home. I hear it as there is one good
foster parent. The other however calls my oldest her birth daughter
which is a lie....

I find that difficult to believe, but not completely impossible. Now, there
are less than stellar foster parents out there, and some who should never
have been given a license, but CPS cant tell who those are until they are in
the system working with kids. All the tests in the world are never going to
be able to screen out all the improper foster parents, it just cant happen,
but they do what they can.

One must also remember that kids do not always tell the truth. The older
the child the more complex the untruth. She may be responding to your state
of emotion and is telling you what you want to hear, trying to make you feel
better. More investigation on your part is warranted before you go making
claims based on what your children are telling you.

[[[ Having worked with children, mostly foster children, in mental
health I can assure you that Ron is telling it like it is. The
children, very much like in a divorce situation, are trying to take
care of their parents. YOU, Greg, would have them lying, OR being
"coached." Because you are a vile self absorbed little asshole. ]]]

Yes some kids are abused but alot are not.

From your previous posts I'd say you are in Canada, right?

Here, most of the children in the system are not physically abused. More
are neglected than abused. Neglect kills more children in this country than
does abuse.

[[[ The absolute truth. What Ron didn't mention is that nearly every
case of "abuse" includes abuse by both other means, (physical,
emotional, sexual, developmental, psychological) and by neglect.
(nutritional, medical, developmental, emotional). ]]]


Here they remove children
in my case biggest issue because I was a crown ward and went through
abuse as a child. Did you suffer abuse as a chilD? If so watch
out....you won't be allowed kids if you let them know, after all as
their steretype goes we will possibly abuse our own children.

Did I? I'm sure that at the time I would have said yes, but all in all my
mom did a pretty good job raising 3 boys on her own.

Not even in Canada is that enough reason to remove your children. Sorry,
there is more to the case that you are not telling us. Not that you have
to, privacy is your right, but to expect us to believe that this is the sole
reason your children have been removed says that you think we are a bunch of
idiots. gregg may be, but the rest of us (Doan and Doug included) are not.

[[[ The latter have their own brand of idiocy....R R R R. And note, I'm
not admonishing Ron for "confronting," so obviously you are mistaken,
Greg, if you think I wish to "claim" Lisa. I wish her only the best in
getting her children back. Which YOU do not. You are the predator here,
Greg, and don't you forget it. ]]]


What a stupid childish way for them to think, just because it happened
to me doesn't mean im going to do it. Just like the idoit that breaks
your door down and steals from you, doesn't mean you are going to go
out and do it does it?

Sorry had bad experience with foster parents of my autistic son, they
kept lying to the cas so they could keep my son.

I know there is the odd good one but more abusive foster homes.

Here in the US the facts do not support your position. There are far more
good foster homes than abusive ones. 20 years ago I was not a foster parent
so I cant vouch for what happened in the system then, but as of right now
your theory would be incorrect.

[[[ And that is the fact. The great majority of people involved in
fostering, from foster certifiers, to case managers, to the foster
parents themselves, do very good work. Like all fields of work you will
find some few that do not do good work. There is constant pressure to
weed them out, usually by simply not placing with them. I note that Ron
has had a very large number of children placed with him. 0:-] ]]]


Anyway fact is they do lie...they want you on their side not ours.

Lisa

I'm not on anyone's side but the kids Lisa. I don't interact with the case
managers much, other than to get what the children need from the system or
to get instructions concerning visitation and the like. In any case I am
certainly not on the side of the State. I have run into more than my share
of ****-poor case managers, and I usually end up going to supervisors or
directors to get the children's needs met.

[[[ I found this a consistitent attitude among the better foster
parents. They are far too busy to be playing games with the system or
incompetence. They are some of the best resources superviors have in
terms of dealing with both new workers, or less than sterling workers.
Good foster's tend to keep workers in line. Come to think of it, it
worked both ways. ]]]

I am also a professional in the
field, and get a chance to interact with vast numbers of children in the
system in my state. Most are quite happy where they are, some are not.
Usually its the kids in the group homes that have issues with their care
providers. That stand to reason since the kids in these types of placements
are not suited to placement in actual foster homes by reason of temperament
or psychological problems.

[[[ These often are the children that were so damaged by parents, and
often repeatedly (which IS a system failure) by those parents, that
even therapeutic help could not reach them. So they would be taught
life skills and placed with group home managers that tend NOT to take a
lot of ****, and tend to be very clear about boundaries...something
teens never are all to happy with, at least vocally. R R R R R ]]]


Ron


Greegor wrote:
Ron wrote
caseworkers don't lie to us

They've been CAUGHT AT IT Ron!

There you are you lying little ****ant, Greg. You completely removed
that he was talking about all the other sources they have for
information about the children.

What a scumbag you are, Greg.

0:-



Ron wrote
It is not the place of the foster parents to judge the reasons for
removal. We don't have all the information, we were not there, we
don't
have the training and in most cases the education to make these
judgments.
That's what caseworkers are for. And the police of course.

Isn't that the argument the death camp guards and villagers used?

Plus you implied that caseworkers DO have the training or
education to know diddly, which even KANE acknowledges
is not true.

Ron wrote
3. Most removals for "At Risk" children are made by law enforcement
officers. Not caseworkers. I notice that both of you tend to place
all the
blame on the caseworkers, when in fact in many cases they just get
handed a
case by the police and the actual removal has already been made.
Interesting that you don't blame the officers for making these
decisions.

I do, but the CPS agency justifies to itself MAINTAINING
dominion and control over the children. The cops are
not responsible for the months of foot dragging by the agencies.
Dominion and Control over a child is the legal issue for good reason.

Dear Greg:
You rotten so and so.... despicable ...
Sincerely, A. Hitler

Greegor wrote:
Dear Greg:
You rotten so and so.... despicable ...
Sincerely, A. Hitler

So, have you gotten your monthly update from Elvis too?

"0:-" wrote in message
oups.com...

My pleasure sir.

Ron

P.S.: Post to NG Intentional

seeing as you may not have been following from the start ROn, the
reason I lost my kids is that the CAS/CPS worker went to her manager
and lied. She told them I hadn't taken my children to appointments
such as the dentist and counselling at a place called pathways for my
oldest daughter. The fact is that I did take my children to these
appointments, dental work does not do its own you know, they don't just
appear there, and I had to sign the papers for the coverage which my
daughter had 2 crowns, cost around 300 each.

I have the proof, have shown it to the worker and manager, they say to
sort it out in court. I don't think you realise the workers do lie to
you, thinking you aren't smart enough to catch on. They take children
because there is a demand for children for adoption here where they get
about 35,000 each child. Trust me I know I have seen many a friend
lose their children to the agency I am involved with.

More kids die in foster care than in their own homes. Others that need
the CAS/CPS involvement don't get it because their kids are screwed up
so therefore unadoptable. I was abused in my foster homes as well as
at home, no workers came to help they didn't care. I know another man
who went through hell on earth in care. Hes really messed up over it.


You may be a great foster parent and the caring kind. If so keep it
up there are kids that truly need you, but my children don't need to be
in the system, they need to come home. They ask me every week when I
get my visit when can I come home mommy? I just tell them I want them
home, we are working on that honey. We are doing everything we can.

Im lucky I know who the people are that are looking after her. I found
out today that they are family friends, so easier to deal with.

Anyway get over it, CAS/CPS workers do lie...the ones you know just
haven't got caught yet.

Lisa
0:- wrote:
Greegor wrote:
Lisa, Ron knows that Fosters who adopted kids have
been lied to so much and so badly that there was
a RASH of law suits because some of these kids
were a DANGER to other kids in Foster Care and beyond.

The cliche' story is that after adopting a kid they find
out the kid is a sexual predator or has dangerous
psychiatric problems and molests their birth daughter
or later Foster kids. There have been several of
these reported in the news media and in some cases
there have been some HUGE damage settlements.

First it's "a RASH," now it's "several."

Fact is it's very very few compared to the number of children adopted,
Greg.

And you have proof that the suing party is not lying how, Greg?

In the article at the tope of this message thread a
person representing Fosters puts forth the MYTH
that all the foster kids are "abused" which is
factually not true according to the government
statistics and the legal standards which only
require "AT RISK OF" abuse, not actual abuse.
"AT RISK OF" with no actual abuse accounts for
the VAST MAJORITY of kids in Foster Care.

This assumption of yours, perpetrated by others as well, is that "AT
RISK" mean not abused.

It does NOT mean that. The child could have been abused, and continue
to be AT RISK, hence it will say so in the record and be counted as
both.

Is it not logical to assume that if a child has been abused, and is not
removed or is returned they are at risk?

Do you know what "AT RISK" actually means, stupid? What those
conditions are that constitute cause to make such a determination?

One of them would be a live in boyfriend that has an inordinate amount
of time with the child or children UNSUPERVISED. Especially if he does
not work. Especially if he is charged with child care of the children.
That puts children at risk automatically, stupid. Those are the
circumstances that so often DO result in injury and sometimes death to
a child.

YOU like to use the media as a source, Greg. Try READING those cases.
You KNOW how common they are.

The reps reference to the kids as all abused
didn't happen because the workers told
THEM the truth about "AT RISK OF" etc...

What are you talking about?

Did you notice how Dan and Kane resisted challenging you?

Nope. The response to Lisa is continually an expression of hope she
will stay focused, something that Dan and I both know very well is
essential to winning a case, while we know that failure to do so, and
to become engaged with posters such as you, Greg, is almost a sure
death knell to a case.

You and your cronies have repeatedly been part of or celebrated failure
of families, to dance in their blood as a way of excusing your own
failures.

You are a predator.

They still hope to claim you.

Neither of us have the least profit in "claiming" anyone. There is no
money in it, and no need to make someone lose, as you have. Both Dan
and I are winners. He has won dozens of difficult and seemingly
impossible cases, while I have helped thousands of extended family sort
out and deal with CPS and keep their kin related children in the
family.

Once they find out they can't, they will be considerably
more confrontative when you testify about things like this.

That is a perfect projection, Greg.

Take Betty, for example. She caught on to you, when she first came here
with one of the classic Kinship cases I am so familiar with. You have
been flaming high dugeon ever since, attacking her at every turn, lying
through your teeth about here, threatening her repeatedly.

Abusive, mean, vindictive.

You have never seen Dan or I, when someone went down the wrong path
attack them, or in any way try to hurt them. And we have commiserated
with them sincerely over their loss rather than blame them.

Hell, YOU blame the winners, like Betty, but for things that are not
true.

All Lisa has to do is take ONE quick look at your posts and exchanges
with Betty to see how a strong person with a built in **** detector
sets you off into your rages.

You are a little ****ant. Nothing more.

Below is the string of posts attributed (slipping boy?) that shows what
a lying little **** you are. You took Ron's comment about not being
lied to by caseworkers and tried to make people believe other than what
he said at the time.

I have some comments, in fact, about Ron's post, from my 30Plus years
experience helping people deal with CPS successfully.

Read on, stupid: [[[ comments in square brackets as usual ]]]


Ron wrote:
"giovinazzo" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hey Ron, the case workers do lie to you foster parents....that is what
you are right?

I am indeed a foster parent. But I have never been lied to by a caseworker.
I have had them refuse to answer questions, tell me that they are not
allowed to tell me, and just stare me in the eye, but never lied to. Not
after more than 200 foster children.

[[[ He just eloquently described what I have pointed out to you and you
called "caseworker lying" little ****ant. They cannot tell what they
cannot tell. ]]]

The point I was making is that the case managers are not allowed to tell us
specifics of the case's we provide care for.

[[[ I have said in the past that to do so can be construed in court by
the opposition as collusion against the client. YOU have complained
that various opponents colluded against you, stupid. Now you lie about
why foster's are allowed to know some things directly from the
worker...calling the worker liar. ]]]

We CAN go to the court
hearings and listen to what is said, we can also speak with the kids. We
can also network with other foster parents who may have cared for the
children in the past, or read accounts of the case in the news paper (i.e.
Parent 'A' was arrested for child abuse, 4 children all in care). About the
same as everyone else I guess. We can also talk to teachers, doctors,
therapists, and other professionals associated with the case since we are
now providing care for the child and have a valid need for the information.

[[[ Less caring and effective foster parents don't bother with this as
Ron obviously does care and bother to do. ]]]

Well my case worker told the foster parents my kids are
abused, didn't tell them that they are an at risk group of children
that I have never done anything to my children, though my kids have
told the fosters that mom never hits them and hasn't done anything to
hurt them.

More likely the foster parent was told that they were removed for abuse.
Not the same thing. They were not told specifics of the case, but reasons
for removal is information we as foster care providers need to properly care
for the children.

[[[ That is accurate. Very. Less astute foster parents don't get it, or
complain about it because they do not understand it. ]]]


My kids are good about that, they tell the foster parents
everyday how they want to come home. I hear it as there is one good
foster parent. The other however calls my oldest her birth daughter
which is a lie....

I find that difficult to believe, but not completely impossible. Now, there
are less than stellar foster parents out there, and some who should never
have been given a license, but CPS cant tell who those are until they are in
the system working with kids. All the tests in the world are never going to
be able to screen out all the improper foster parents, it just cant happen,
but they do what they can.

One must also remember that kids do not always tell the truth. The older
the child the more complex the untruth. She may be responding to your state
of emotion and is telling you what you want to hear, trying to make you feel
better. More investigation on your part is warranted before you go making
claims based on what your children are telling you.

[[[ Having worked with children, mostly foster children, in mental
health I can assure you that Ron is telling it like it is. The
children, very much like in a divorce situation, are trying to take
care of their parents. YOU, Greg, would have them lying, OR being
"coached." Because you are a vile self absorbed little asshole. ]]]

Yes some kids are abused but alot are not.

From your previous posts I'd say you are in Canada, right?

Here, most of the children in the system are not physically abused. More
are neglected than abused. Neglect kills more children in this country than
does abuse.

[[[ The absolute truth. What Ron didn't mention is that nearly every
case of "abuse" includes abuse by both other means, (physical,
emotional, sexual, developmental, psychological) and by neglect.
(nutritional, medical, developmental, emotional). ]]]


Here they remove children
in my case biggest issue because I was a crown ward and went through
abuse as a child. Did you suffer abuse as a chilD? If so watch
out....you won't be allowed kids if you let them know, after all as
their steretype goes we will possibly abuse our own children.

Did I? I'm sure that at the time I would have said yes, but all in all my
mom did a pretty good job raising 3 boys on her own.

Not even in Canada is that enough reason to remove your children. Sorry,
there is more to the case that you are not telling us. Not that you have
to, privacy is your right, but to expect us to believe that this is the sole
reason your children have been removed says that you think we are a bunch of
idiots. gregg may be, but the rest of us (Doan and Doug included) are not.

[[[ The latter have their own brand of idiocy....R R R R. And note, I'm
not admonishing Ron for "confronting," so obviously you are mistaken,
Greg, if you think I wish to "claim" Lisa. I wish her only the best in
getting her children back. Which YOU do not. You are the predator here,
Greg, and don't you forget it. ]]]


What a stupid childish way for them to think, just because it happened
to me doesn't mean im going to do it. Just like the idoit that breaks
your door down and steals from you, doesn't mean you are going to go
out and do it does it?

Sorry had bad experience with foster parents of my autistic son, they
kept lying to the cas so they could keep my son.

I know there is the odd good one but more abusive foster homes.

Here in the US the facts do not support your position. There are far more
good foster homes than abusive ones. 20 years ago I was not a foster parent
so I cant vouch for what happened in the system then, but as of right now
your theory would be incorrect.

[[[ And that is the fact. The great majority of people involved in
fostering, from foster certifiers, to case managers, to the foster
parents themselves, do very good work. Like all fields of work you will
find some few that do not do good work. There is constant pressure to
weed them out, usually by simply not placing with them. I note that Ron
has had a very large number of children placed with him. 0:-] ]]]


Anyway fact is they do lie...they want you on their side not ours.

Lisa

I'm not on anyone's side but the kids Lisa. I don't interact with the case
managers much, other than to get what the children need from the system or
to get instructions concerning visitation and the like. In any case I am
certainly not on the side of the State. I have run into more than my share
of ****-poor case managers, and I usually end up going to supervisors or
directors to get the children's needs met.

[[[ I found this a consistitent attitude among the better foster
parents. They are far too busy to be playing games with the system or
incompetence. They are some of the best resources superviors have in
terms of dealing with both new workers, or less than sterling workers.
Good foster's tend to keep workers in line. Come to think of it, it
worked both ways. ]]]

I am also a professional in the
field, and get a chance to interact with vast numbers of children in the
system in my state. Most are quite happy where they are, some are not.
Usually its the kids in the group homes that have issues with their care
providers. That stand to reason since the kids in these types of placements
are not suited to placement in actual foster homes by reason of temperament
or psychological problems.

[[[ These often are the children that were so damaged by parents, and
often repeatedly (which IS a system failure) by those parents, that
even therapeutic help could not reach them. So they would be taught
life skills and placed with group home managers that tend NOT to take a
lot of ****, and tend to be very clear about boundaries...something
teens never are all to happy with, at least vocally. R R R R R ]]]


Ron


Greegor wrote:
Ron wrote
caseworkers don't lie to us

They've been CAUGHT AT IT Ron!

There you are you lying little ****ant, Greg. You completely removed
that he was talking about all the other sources they have for
information about the children.

What a scumbag you are, Greg.

0:-



Ron wrote
It is not the place of the foster parents to judge the reasons for
removal. We don't have all the information, we were not there, we
don't
have the training and in most cases the education to make these
judgments.
That's what caseworkers are for. And the police of course.

Isn't that the argument the death camp guards and villagers used?

Plus you implied that caseworkers DO have the training or
education to know diddly, which even KANE acknowledges
is not true.

Ron wrote
3. Most removals for "At Risk" children are made by law enforcement
officers. Not caseworkers. I notice that both of you tend to place
all the
blame on the caseworkers, when in fact in many cases they just get
handed a
case by the police and the actual removal has already been made.
Interesting that you don't blame the officers for making these
decisions.

I do, but the CPS agency justifies to itself MAINTAINING
dominion and control over the children. The cops are
not responsible for the months of foot dragging by the agencies.
Dominion and Control over a child is the legal issue for good reason.