origins of polio

In article ,
wrote:
On Nov 23, 8:13 pm, (David Wright) wrote:
In article
,
wrote:

and it was never really 'eradicated'. The same types of symptoms are
still quite prevalent, they are just given different
names/diagnoses. Polio vaccines didn't really help anyone, as
Dr. Sabin seems to confirm below.

In the fraudulent "quotation."

The quotation is not fraudulent.

Of course it is.

Except that the symptoms are not "still quite prevalent;"

Yes, they are still quite prevalent.

we aren't sticking people in iron lungs any
more, nor do you see all the kids with leg braces etc.

These were old treatments. Irrelevant.

Nope. If someone suffered the really severe paralysis, they'd still
need an iron lung. There's no other treatment. Yet nobody winds up
in iron lungs these days.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"Saddam Hussein was a bad man, connected with some incredibly dangerous
people: Cheney, Rumsfeld, George Galloway." -- Marcus Brigstocke

David Wright wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Nov 23, 8:13 pm, (David Wright) wrote:
In article
,
wrote:
and it was never really 'eradicated'. The same types of symptoms are
still quite prevalent, they are just given different
names/diagnoses. Polio vaccines didn't really help anyone, as
Dr. Sabin seems to confirm below.
In the fraudulent "quotation."
The quotation is not fraudulent.

Of course it is.

Except that the symptoms are not "still quite prevalent;"
Yes, they are still quite prevalent.

we aren't sticking people in iron lungs any
more, nor do you see all the kids with leg braces etc.
These were old treatments. Irrelevant.

Nope. If someone suffered the really severe paralysis, they'd still
need an iron lung. There's no other treatment. Yet nobody winds up
in iron lungs these days.

They are hidden in caves.

(David Wright) wrote:

In article ,
Yuri Kuchinsky wrote:

"Vaccine-man" wrote in message
...
On Nov 25, 7:40 pm, wrote:
On Nov 23, 8:13 pm, (David Wright) wrote:

In the fraudulent "quotation."

The quotation is not fraudulent.

Yuri, can you provide the entire text of Dr. Sabin's speech so that we
can all evaluate its context? I have searched Google and cannot locate
it. In fact, the only places that I do see this quotation are on
antivaccine web sites. Surely, in the interest of *honest discussion*
you can provide us the evidence we need to independently evaluate your
assertions.

I don't have the entire text of Dr. Sabin's speech.

Nevertheless, I'm not aware of a single case when a reputable alt site
posted a fake quote. Therefore, I give it a very high probability
that this particular quote from Dr. Sabin is valid.

How amusing. I guess you've never heard the old saying that a lie can
circle the earth while the truth is still putting its boots on.

Given that Sabin spent his whole career on vaccines and was much in
favor of them, it's highly unlikely the quotation is accurate.

Dr Sabin died in 1993 so he is not able to defend himself against the
liars who are polluting his memory. I have written to the Sabin
Institute to see if anyone knows what, if anything, Dr Sabin ever said
that could be twisted into the "quote".


How about this one from Dr Morris?

Yuri.

Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku

"There is a great deal of evidence to prove that immunisation of children
does more harm than good." -- Dr J Anthony Morris, former Chief Vaccine
Control Officer, FDA.

Unless you can provide a source for this (like when did he say it and
where), I see no reason to believe it's accurate either.
Interestingly, if you stick that "quotation" into google, you also
find it attributed to Dr Klenner, the 'vitamin C cures all' guy that
whale.to likes to venerate.

Imagine! Another fraudulent "quote".
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Peter Bowditch wrote:
(David Wright) wrote:

In article ,
Yuri Kuchinsky wrote:
"Vaccine-man" wrote in message
...
On Nov 25, 7:40 pm, wrote:
On Nov 23, 8:13 pm, (David Wright) wrote:
In the fraudulent "quotation."
The quotation is not fraudulent.
Yuri, can you provide the entire text of Dr. Sabin's speech so that we
can all evaluate its context? I have searched Google and cannot locate
it. In fact, the only places that I do see this quotation are on
antivaccine web sites. Surely, in the interest of *honest discussion*
you can provide us the evidence we need to independently evaluate your
assertions.
I don't have the entire text of Dr. Sabin's speech.

Nevertheless, I'm not aware of a single case when a reputable alt site
posted a fake quote. Therefore, I give it a very high probability
that this particular quote from Dr. Sabin is valid.
How amusing. I guess you've never heard the old saying that a lie can
circle the earth while the truth is still putting its boots on.

Given that Sabin spent his whole career on vaccines and was much in
favor of them, it's highly unlikely the quotation is accurate.

Dr Sabin died in 1993 so he is not able to defend himself against the
liars who are polluting his memory. I have written to the Sabin
Institute to see if anyone knows what, if anything, Dr Sabin ever said
that could be twisted into the "quote".

How about this one from Dr Morris?

Yuri.

Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku

"There is a great deal of evidence to prove that immunisation of children
does more harm than good." -- Dr J Anthony Morris, former Chief Vaccine
Control Officer, FDA.
Unless you can provide a source for this (like when did he say it and
where), I see no reason to believe it's accurate either.
Interestingly, if you stick that "quotation" into google, you also
find it attributed to Dr Klenner, the 'vitamin C cures all' guy that
whale.to likes to venerate.

Imagine! Another fraudulent "quote".

Like the Pasteur one?

"Vaccine-man" wrote in message
...
On Nov 25, 9:34 pm, "Yuri Kuchinsky" wrote:

I don't have the entire text of Dr. Sabin's speech.

Have you ever read or heard a recording of his speech? If not, how can
you be certain if it was ever made or, if it was, in what context this
quote may have been made?

Nevertheless, I'm not aware of a single case when a reputable alt site
posted a fake quote. Therefore, I give it a very high probability that
this
particular quote from Dr. Sabin is valid.

Can you explain under what possible circumstances that Dr. Sabin would
make a comment condemning vaccines, yet continue his career's work and
establishing a pro-vaccine organization, the Sabin Vaccine Institute?

http://sabin.org/about/sabin_mission.html

How about this one from Dr Morris?

I'd like to resolve the one regarding Dr. Sabin first, if you don't
mind. No sense in distractions.

There's no evidence that this quote from Sabin is incorrect. I'm sorry it
doesn't fit into your world view, but it's not my fault...

Yuri.

Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku

"Official data have shown that the large-scale vaccinations undertaken in
the US have failed to obtain any significant improvement of the diseases
against which they were supposed to provide protection." -- Dr A. Sabin,
developer of the Oral Polio vaccine.

"Vaccine-man" wrote in message
...
On Nov 25, 9:28 pm, "Yuri Kuchinsky" wrote:
"Vaccine-man" wrote in message

...

On Nov 25, 7:46 pm, "Yuri Kuchinsky" wrote:

Since polio is most likely just a form of chemical poisoning, it won't
be
too surprising that the symptoms of polio may result from vaccines.

Yuri.

So why was it, then, that the only ones who got polio received
immunizations from the *improperly* inactivated Cutter vaccine (i.e.,
still contained infectious polio virus), while those who received the
*properly* inactivated Cutter vaccine did not get polio? The only
difference between the lots was that the one that caused polio didn't
have enough formalin in it. Everything else between the lots was
identical.

Hmm... interesting. You cite a case of iatrogenic disease to prove the
validity of mainstream medicine?

Sorry, no curve balls allowed. You stated that polio is most likely a
form of chemical poisoning (see your words above, preserved here for
posterity). Yet when two groups of people receive vaccines that only
differed in the amount of formalin (resulting in one with infectious
polio virus because of too little formalin), only those who received
the improperly prepared vaccine developed polio. There is no other
explanation but that polio virus causes polio.

I'm sure there are other explanations.

It cannot be chemically-
induced; your argument is disproved.

I don't buy your account of the Cutter incident.

It's not my account. What don't you "buy" about it?

The whole dirty business
stinks to high heaven. There's no silk purse in this sow's ear...

Personal incredulity and colorful metaphors are note the path to good
decisions.

Does this egregious case of medical malpractice constitute your best
evidence for the validity of the official polio story?

Yuri.

Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku

"Official data have shown that the large-scale vaccinations undertaken in
the US have failed to obtain any significant improvement of the diseases
against which they were supposed to provide protection." -- Dr A. Sabin,
developer of the Oral Polio vaccine.

"Jeff" wrote in message
news:FDK2j.9970$ch.676@trnddc03...
wrote:
...

Since polio is most likely just a form of chemical poisoning, it won't
be too surprising that the symptoms of polio may result from vaccines.

Funny thing is that in rare outbreaks of polio from the vaccine strain
of the virus,

Not rare at all...

the people who get polio have one thing in common in their
stool that most people lack: the virus. So please explain why people
with polio have a virus that can be isolated from their stool while
those of us without polio don't have it in our stool.

There are all sorts of problems with isolating the polio virus...

Yuri.

Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku

"Official data have shown that the large-scale vaccinations undertaken in
the US have failed to obtain any significant improvement of the diseases
against which they were supposed to provide protection." -- Dr A. Sabin,
developer of the Oral Polio vaccine.

"David Wright" wrote in message
news
In article ,
Yuri Kuchinsky wrote:

"Vaccine-man" wrote in message
...
On Nov 25, 7:40 pm, wrote:
On Nov 23, 8:13 pm, (David Wright) wrote:

In the fraudulent "quotation."

The quotation is not fraudulent.

Yuri, can you provide the entire text of Dr. Sabin's speech so that we
can all evaluate its context? I have searched Google and cannot locate
it. In fact, the only places that I do see this quotation are on
antivaccine web sites. Surely, in the interest of *honest discussion*
you can provide us the evidence we need to independently evaluate your
assertions.

I don't have the entire text of Dr. Sabin's speech.

Nevertheless, I'm not aware of a single case when a reputable alt site
posted a fake quote. Therefore, I give it a very high probability
that this particular quote from Dr. Sabin is valid.

How amusing. I guess you've never heard the old saying that a lie can
circle the earth while the truth is still putting its boots on.

Given that Sabin spent his whole career on vaccines and was much in
favor of them, it's highly unlikely the quotation is accurate.

There's no evidence that this quote from Sabin is incorrect. Just because it
doesn't fit into your world view, it doesn't mean it's not valid.

According to my source, Sabin said this on December 7th, 1985 at a lecture
to Italian doctors in Piacenza, Italy. Should be pretty easy to verify.
Where are your research skills?

How about this one from Dr Morris?

Yuri.

Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku

"There is a great deal of evidence to prove that immunisation of children
does more harm than good." -- Dr J Anthony Morris, former Chief Vaccine
Control Officer, FDA.

Unless you can provide a source for this (like when did he say it and
where), I see no reason to believe it's accurate either.
Interestingly, if you stick that "quotation" into google, you also
find it attributed to Dr Klenner, the 'vitamin C cures all' guy that
whale.to likes to venerate.

The same applies to this Morris quote. These quotes have been on the web for
years, and only now you're waking up to them???

Seems scandalous to me that all those Pharma PR folks have been so remiss in
their debunkings... How do they justify their paychecks? You lose your
Christmas bonus for sure...

Yuri.

Yuri Kuchinsky -- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku

"The great tragedy of science -- a beautiful hypothesis slain
by an ugly fact." -- Thomas Huxley

Yuri Kuchinsky wrote:
"Jeff" wrote in message
news:FDK2j.9970$ch.676@trnddc03...
wrote:
...

Since polio is most likely just a form of chemical poisoning, it won't
be too surprising that the symptoms of polio may result from vaccines.
Funny thing is that in rare outbreaks of polio from the vaccine strain
of the virus,

Not rare at all...

Evidence please.

the people who get polio have one thing in common in their
stool that most people lack: the virus. So please explain why people
with polio have a virus that can be isolated from their stool while
those of us without polio don't have it in our stool.

There are all sorts of problems with isolating the polio virus...

Yuri.

What problems are present with finding the virus in the stool of people
who don't have polio compared to those who do?

Jeff


Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku

"Official data have shown that the large-scale vaccinations undertaken in
the US have failed to obtain any significant improvement of the diseases
against which they were supposed to provide protection." -- Dr A. Sabin,
developer of the Oral Polio vaccine.

"Yuri Kuchinsky" wrote:


"Vaccine-man" wrote in message
...
On Nov 25, 9:34 pm, "Yuri Kuchinsky" wrote:

I don't have the entire text of Dr. Sabin's speech.

Have you ever read or heard a recording of his speech? If not, how can
you be certain if it was ever made or, if it was, in what context this
quote may have been made?

Nevertheless, I'm not aware of a single case when a reputable alt site
posted a fake quote. Therefore, I give it a very high probability that
this
particular quote from Dr. Sabin is valid.

Can you explain under what possible circumstances that Dr. Sabin would
make a comment condemning vaccines, yet continue his career's work and
establishing a pro-vaccine organization, the Sabin Vaccine Institute?

http://sabin.org/about/sabin_mission.html

How about this one from Dr Morris?

I'd like to resolve the one regarding Dr. Sabin first, if you don't
mind. No sense in distractions.

There's no evidence that this quote from Sabin is incorrect. I'm sorry it
doesn't fit into your world view, but it's not my fault...

Then you will kindly provide a date and a context, won't you?

I didn't think so.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com