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#21
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"Time Wasting Rules" - from Real Simple Magazine - NOT GOOD!
In article ,
Clisby Williams wrote: Banty wrote: In article , says... For me ff was simpler because bf was: 1) Sit down 2) Plop out breast(s)? 3) switch breast 4) switch breast 5) switch breast etc. alot for hours on end. Both my babies wanted to constantly for hours on end be on the nipple because of supply issues. I gave up on bf with my first and persevered with the help of domperidone with my second. while ff was: 1) pour water in bottle 2) put formula in bottle 3) shake 4) feed baby for max 15 min Which required no refrigeration, microwave, pitcher, or measuring cups. It did require a store :-) Yep. I did both, and I think the perception varies on what the mother does and considers relaxing. Also the milk supply and let down. If it's feet up watching TV or sitting outside taking in the air and scenery and yammering on the phone to friends that mom loves, sitting and switching breasts is just the ticket. If more active pursuits are what's satisfying and relaxing to mom, sitting and switching breasts for 1/2 hour or so can be really reaaally sloooooow. And what's hard is what *else* has to be done with the time left over after siiiiittting and leetting dooown and relllaaaaxxxing for a loooooong time. (And no - don't say "oh -doncha know you can let the housework go" - I got REAL TIRED OF the clutter and feeling allergic to boot in a dirty, cat-hair filled house.) I did nurse, but my experience of it was more like that latter. My temprament isn't one to sit day in day out and look at baby and TV and trees and grass hours and yammer with whoever's hanging out hours in hours out day in day out. And I'm too heavy breasted to set up, hold baby in one arm, hold a paperback in the other. Banty Yep. And some of us don't get the side benefit of that supposed flow of relaxing hormones during nursing. I've nursed my son for 17 months, and the only hormonal side effects I've felt have been unpleasant (uterine contractions, and letdown.) Even once the bad part was past, I've seldom nursed him without thinking, "OK, honey, aren't you about through now?" Clisby OK -- this makes sense. I'm the sort who'd rather sit in a corner somewhere -- and managed to learn to nurse the twins while reading the newspaper. Personally, I *liked* the feeling of letting down -- though i could have passed on the uterine contractions! I've always understood that for some people, nursing is a PIA: they may have lactation problems, or a baby with a severe cleft pallatte or other medical issues, or a baby who just can't seem to latch on, or baby with neo-natal problems that meant they couldn't nurse for the first few weeks or months, or they adopted, or they had to return to work, or for some reason it made sense for someone else to be feeding the baby, or . .. . However, I guess I didn't understand that, for some people the sitting down to nurse -- the time just sitting -- felt more like a chore, or at least not pleasurable; since I'll use damned near ANY excuse to sit for a while -- nursing (almost) never felt like a chore. (And I did enjoy being able to tell other people, "Can you do the dishes? -- I have to nurse the babies.") Thanks for taking the time to put into words something I didn't really "get" before. meh -- Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care |
#22
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"Time Wasting Rules" - from Real Simple Magazine - NOT GOOD!
Stephanie and Tim wrote: "dragonlady" wrote in message ... In article , "The Ranger" wrote: dragonlady asked in message ... [snip] but I can't figure out how formula and bottles could be simpler than breastfeeding, [..] Can you explain how it was simpler? In our case it was as simple as: 1) Purchase multiple cases of concentrated liquid formula insert myriad of choices from Toys-R-Us (either at a B&M or on-line); store in pantry until needed. On our trip through TX, we were able to purchase pre-measured, fully-mixed liquid formula where we swapped their lid for our bottle nipples. 2) Get two cans from storage. Pop tops with can opener. 3) Pour both into pitcher; measure out appropriate amount of water. Stir. 4) P(remeasure)our into all available bottles. Cap. Refrigerate. During feeding the steps we 1) Grab two at a time from 'fridge, pop into microwave, nuke for 30 seconds, shake, test. 2) Pop on nipple cap and pop into infants' mouths. I remember feeding taking a maximum of 15 minutes for each child. (Spawn was a little more difficult because she was a lazy feeder and tended to try to nap.) The Ranger OK -- but how was that simpler than: 1) Sit down 2) Plop out breast(s)? Which requires no refrigeration, microwave, store, pitcher, or measuring cups? (Again, I really am NOT trying to be difficult; I've heard people say that bottles were simpler than breasts. Since my first was bottle/formula fed after a few months, and my twins breastfed, I have the comparison, and considered breast SO much simpler -- I'm just trying to understand why, for some folks, the bottle is simpler.) (And, yes, I understand that for many people bottle feeding is necessary/desirable for reasons that have nothing to do with simplicity.) meh -- Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care I thought Clisby's answer was pretty descriptive. Pumping is a drag. There is nothing simple about it. Dad was home all day; she wasn't. And the ability to share feeding can simplify things. Simple is in the eye of the beholder if you ask me. Each family's organizational style is different. Some people acheive efficiency by job sharing, some by stripping steps. S And just to be clear - I'm not advocating formula feeding. I wish I had perservered with breastfeeding my first child, and I'm glad I stuck with it for the 2nd. But there's no question in my mind that formula feeding was *simpler*. It wasn't better - but it was easier. Clisby |
#23
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"Time Wasting Rules" - from Real Simple Magazine - NOT GOOD!
In article ,
dragonlady says... I always figure that, if it isn't exploring rivers and swimming in seas, there's LOTS of quiet relaxing stuff *I* like to do in my nice air-conditioned house :-) Banty Hmmm -- I think I'd like you, but I suspect we'd drive each other bat-**** crazy if we ever tried to vacation together. It isn't that I don't enjoy swimming or zooming around -- I just really enjoy just sitting, too. Oh, I like relaxing and reading, playing piano, and I like fiber arts, too. And of course some talking and visiting. It's the - - just - always - SITTING - - that gets to me. And how a lot of activities for a lot of people is about - just finding somewhere *else* to - - sit. A few weeks ago I spent two days with my brother and his partner. My brother kept asking me what I wanted to do; I didn't want to DO anything -- I just hadn't seen them for a very long time, and had the chance to spend some time with them. I think he's more like you, and I think just "hanging out" with me wasn't fun for him! (His partner was OK with it; in fact, he may have enjoyed the chance to just hang out and not "do" anything!) I like a balance. Last visit to my father, I had to slow him down as to what we all were to do. And it's *his* health that's failing. (That's unusual, actually, almost as if he was trying to make up for something.) It's just that sitting, per se, and yammering, per se, isn't enough for long. Perhaps you can understand my frustration in a conversation like this: Friends: Sooo, what are you doing Sunday? Me: I finally have time to get back to that quilt I've been putting off! Friends: Oh - since you're not reaally doing anything, how about going boating with us on Sunday! Rrrrrr....I'm supposed to want to sit and sip and visit - for hoouurs - on a boat, and that's supposed to be soooo speshul 'cause it's on a BOAT, instead of the relaxing and absorbing thing at home I *really* want to do! Cheers, Banty |
#24
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"Time Wasting Rules" - from Real Simple Magazine - NOT GOOD!
Banty wrote: In article , dragonlady says... In article , Banty wrote: Yep - that's the extrovert-introvert split. Extroverts all want introverts like me to toss aside the books, the hobbies, and the simple solitary pleasures, defer these things to our dotages, "come out of (our) shells", and spend whatever moments we can With Other People. Drives Banty batty. :-) However, I would also be seriously annoyed at having my quilting described as "not really doing anything"! Hear hear! Aren't we supposed to be talking about BF'ing?? Banty Well, if you insist . . . I shoulda put a smiley :-) I wonder if this isn't part of the breastfeeding split? I think maternal temprament is part of it. I don't think it necessarily splits along introvert-extrovert lines. I can easily envision a sanguine introvert loving the quiet time with baby(s). It's probably more on an activity characteristic. Although not necessarily physical activity. Part of *my* experience of bf'ing as a long sitting-chore was that I had no hands free to pursue any mental activity. If I were a B-cup, I might have liked it better. For me -- someone who needs to be around other people to get rejuvinated -- breastfeeding was something that made ME feel good. I enjoyed it, and was sad when my oldest gave it up so early. I never understood why folks who COULD breastfeed without serious problems would prefer to bottle feed. WEll, IMO this isn't a deciding factor - after all, getting through Cub Scout nights was also sometimes something of a chore! One stretches one's boundaries of tolerance to parent. If, on the other hand, for folks like you it feels more like a chore -- bottles WOULD be simpler, since it tends to be faster and since other people can do it, too. (Regardless of a person's reason, I would be hard pressed to criticize anyone's choice when it comes to this, or most other parenting issues!) I'm about to take the Myers-Briggs for the first time (I've actively avoided it) and am reasonably certain that I'll turn up an "E"; I wonder if anyone has ever looked at this particular aspect of personality type and parenting styles? I wonder if E's, for example, are more likely to breast feed, or use attachment parenting? I test INTJ. It absolutely fits. Banty I test INTJ also. Clisby |
#25
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"Time Wasting Rules" - from Real Simple Magazine - NOT GOOD!
Donna Metler wrote: We're actually a little bit concerned about that for our children, when we have them-how do you raise children who have adequate social interaction when you don't really interact socially much? That's a good question. I've thought about it, because we don't socialize much, either. We don't dislike socializing - it's just that we like peace and quiet more. (When I was first dating my husband, one of things I liked so much about him was that he didn't feel compelled to yammer at me the whole time we were together.) I think when you have children, you just have to make the effort to invite their playmates over, or invite their friends along to a movie, or get them involved in activities where they'll be around other children. Those things don't necessarily come naturally to parents . Clisby |
#26
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"Time Wasting Rules" - from Real Simple Magazine - NOT GOOD!
just me wrote: "Clisby Williams" wrote in message ... I test INTJ. It absolutely fits. Banty I test INTJ also. That's three of us. Scary. I wonder how many other idealistic hermits we have around here? -Aula Not only that - I like knitting and needlepoint, although I haven't done either in awhile. Clisby |
#27
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"Time Wasting Rules" - from Real Simple Magazine - NOT GOOD!
In article ,
dragonlady says... In article , Banty wrote: I like a balance. Last visit to my father, I had to slow him down as to what we all were to do. And it's *his* health that's failing. (That's unusual, actually, almost as if he was trying to make up for something.) It's just that sitting, per se, and yammering, per se, isn't enough for long. Perhaps you can understand my frustration in a conversation like this: Friends: Sooo, what are you doing Sunday? Me: I finally have time to get back to that quilt I've been putting off! Friends: Oh - since you're not reaally doing anything, how about going boating with us on Sunday! Rrrrrr....I'm supposed to want to sit and sip and visit - for hoouurs - on a boat, and that's supposed to be soooo speshul 'cause it's on a BOAT, instead of the relaxing and absorbing thing at home I *really* want to do! Cheers, Banty See, I'd scrap the quilt and go on the boat -- not because it's on a boat, but because it's hanging out with people I like (you did say they're friends?) instead of being home engaged in a solo activity. I wonder how much of this is really has to do with personality types? I get recharged, rejuvinated, by just being with other people -- and, the way my life is right now, I don't have nearly enough of that. Yep - that's the extrovert-introvert split. Extroverts all want introverts like me to toss aside the books, the hobbies, and the simple solitary pleasures, defer these things to our dotages, "come out of (our) shells", and spend whatever moments we can With Other People. Drives Banty batty. :-) However, I would also be seriously annoyed at having my quilting described as "not really doing anything"! Hear hear! Aren't we supposed to be talking about BF'ing?? Banty |
#28
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"Time Wasting Rules" - from Real Simple Magazine - NOT GOOD!
In article ,
Banty wrote: In article , dragonlady says... In article , Banty wrote: I like a balance. Last visit to my father, I had to slow him down as to what we all were to do. And it's *his* health that's failing. (That's unusual, actually, almost as if he was trying to make up for something.) It's just that sitting, per se, and yammering, per se, isn't enough for long. Perhaps you can understand my frustration in a conversation like this: Friends: Sooo, what are you doing Sunday? Me: I finally have time to get back to that quilt I've been putting off! Friends: Oh - since you're not reaally doing anything, how about going boating with us on Sunday! Rrrrrr....I'm supposed to want to sit and sip and visit - for hoouurs - on a boat, and that's supposed to be soooo speshul 'cause it's on a BOAT, instead of the relaxing and absorbing thing at home I *really* want to do! Cheers, Banty See, I'd scrap the quilt and go on the boat -- not because it's on a boat, but because it's hanging out with people I like (you did say they're friends?) instead of being home engaged in a solo activity. I wonder how much of this is really has to do with personality types? I get recharged, rejuvinated, by just being with other people -- and, the way my life is right now, I don't have nearly enough of that. Yep - that's the extrovert-introvert split. Extroverts all want introverts like me to toss aside the books, the hobbies, and the simple solitary pleasures, defer these things to our dotages, "come out of (our) shells", and spend whatever moments we can With Other People. Drives Banty batty. :-) However, I would also be seriously annoyed at having my quilting described as "not really doing anything"! Hear hear! Aren't we supposed to be talking about BF'ing?? Banty Well, if you insist . . . I wonder if this isn't part of the breastfeeding split? For me -- someone who needs to be around other people to get rejuvinated -- breastfeeding was something that made ME feel good. I enjoyed it, and was sad when my oldest gave it up so early. I never understood why folks who COULD breastfeed without serious problems would prefer to bottle feed. If, on the other hand, for folks like you it feels more like a chore -- bottles WOULD be simpler, since it tends to be faster and since other people can do it, too. (Regardless of a person's reason, I would be hard pressed to criticize anyone's choice when it comes to this, or most other parenting issues!) I'm about to take the Myers-Briggs for the first time (I've actively avoided it) and am reasonably certain that I'll turn up an "E"; I wonder if anyone has ever looked at this particular aspect of personality type and parenting styles? I wonder if E's, for example, are more likely to breast feed, or use attachment parenting? meh -- Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care |
#29
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"Time Wasting Rules" - from Real Simple Magazine - NOT GOOD!
In article , Clisby Williams
writes In my experience of reading these newsgroups, people who talk about the inconvenience of formula feeding typically are grossly exaggerating the amount of time and bother it takes. But that works both ways - I honestly think the truth of the matter is that whatever you do routinely ends up being well practised and not seeming to be too much bother. I pumped exclusively for months, and by the end of the time I was pleased that I could get up, feed DS a bottle, express and change his bum in 15 mins, now if I'm still awake 10 mins after starting to feed ds#2 it feels like a long time - I guess it's all subjective Here's the kind of thing I read: 1. You have to sterilize bottles. (No, you don't.) I know in the states it's not always done, but here the 'official' advice is still to sterilise up to about 6 months, even if you don't have to sterilise you still have to wash them. Not everyone has a dishwasher. 2. You have to get up in the middle of the night and fix a bottle. (Only if your definition of "fixing a bottle" is: reach in the refrigerator, pull out a bottle, stick it in the baby's mouth. If you have a picky baby, maybe you microwave it for 10 seconds first.) Still have to prep the bottle before going to bed, get up to fetch it, and that's more than if you're co-sleeping, not so much more though if baby is in another room. 3. If you go out with the baby, you have to wait until you find somewhere to warm up the bottle. (No, you don't.) True, but you do have to plan how many bottles, and carry them with you. 4. You have to go to the trouble of buying the formula. (Oh, give me a break.) Trouble, no, expense? Yes. 5. You might run out of formula. (Never happened. How much trouble is it to remember to buy the only food your baby eats?) Depends how disorganised you are - we occasionally run out of nappies even though it should be obvious when we're getting low on them. -- Jenn UK |
#30
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"Time Wasting Rules" - from Real Simple Magazine - NOT GOOD!
In article , The Ranger
writes E wrote in message .. . [snip] also, expressed bm can be "stored" at room temp. for quite a few hours before "going bad" whereas mixed formula can't be... I am always surprised at how strongly resilient my daughter-units are at my attempts to do what I think is best or right. Each test often shows they will survive into adulthood despite my (and many other well-meaning adults) book-based, doctor-supported, new-age intentions. Go figure. The Ranger Meaning what, in the context of this discussion? -- Jenn UK |
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