Men of character, boys of fortune

Men of character, boys of fortune

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/colu...01/173704.html
http://tinyurl.com/9smf7

By Rebecca Hagelin

Nov 1, 2005

Picture the scene: Boys and their parents gathered to discuss a
"youthful indiscretion" and its consequences. I was once at such a
meeting, and I was struck by the thought that what America needs
perhaps more than anything else is fathers who will father.

I'm the mother of two teenage boys, and believe me, I am well
acquainted with the behaviors that have led to the popular phrase
"boys will be boys." But I am also blessed to know what it means to
my sons' development and character for them to have a father who
holds them accountable, is engaged in their lives, and is intimately
familiar with their strengths, weaknesses, personalities and individual
needs.

On that particular evening, several parents had heavy hearts. Their
sons, with no ill intent, had landed in trouble by making some pretty
sophomoric decisions (specifically, entering a nearby abandoned house).
Sounds pretty innocuous -- except that there were "No trespassing"
signs posted in clear view. But that incident (thank goodness, now but
a memory) ended up being a lesson in life for the boys -- a lesson that
will undoubtedly help them avoid making bigger mistakes later in life.
Why? Because their fathers stepped in to make certain that the lessons
were learned.

That's the kind of father my sons have. This month, my husband and I
celebrate 21 years of marriage, and I consider myself one of the
luckiest wives on earth. My husband is my hero (for many reasons which
shall remain private!) but one I am willing to discuss is the fact that
he's an amazing father to our three children.
I recently had the privilege of watching my eldest son become an Eagle
Scout. I peeked my head around the corner just in time to hear the
District Council representative of the Boy Scouts say to my son,
"Congratulations. Your rank of Eagle Scout begins tonight."

About 30 minutes earlier, Drew had emerged from his hour-long Eagle
Scout Board of Review both relieved and nervous. Although the official
ceremony will take place in the coming months, for Drew the night was
the final requirement of nearly a decade of achieving goals, working
hard, earning merit badges, volunteering and developing leadership
skills. For me, it was a night to reflect both on the man that Drew has
become, and on the man that helped him accomplish one of the greatest
achievements possible for young men.

I am proud of my son, but I am absolutely enamored with my amazing
husband.

Plainly put, Drew would never have made the rank without the support,
encouragement, guidance and love of his father. Yes, Drew worked hard
over many years, but it was his father that coached him, went on
countless camping trips, studied with him, taught him about discipline,
and most of all, showed him how to be a committed leader and a man of
strong character.

Social science research, statistics and real life unequivocally tell us
that the safest, healthiest, most nurturing place for children is in a
home with a mother and father who are married to each other. Yet,
according to the National Fatherhood Initiative, some 24 million
children live in homes where fathers are absent, meaning one in three
children "go to sleep in a home in which their father doesn't
live." Fatherlessness is the great American tragedy of modern times.

Given that so many children lack the fathers they need and crave, why
is it that the popular culture constantly devalues the role of fathers
instead of building it up?

Flip on the television and watch for just one evening. You'll find
that virtually every commercial and sitcom portrays fathers as either
wimpy or ignorant. The message to our kids is pretty clear: Dads are
losers.

What does that say to our children about the value of their own
fathers? To young boys about their own possible futures as fathers? To
young girls about what to look for in a future husband? To the men who
are already dads?

The media must be crazy. But I ain't crazy -- either as a columnist
or a wife. So as just one small voice in today's mass media, I'm
going to do my part to say to all the great dads out there, "Thank
you. We need you."

And to the wonderful fathers of the families we are so thankful to have
as close friends and allies in the effort to raise boys of character, I
say, "Thank you. It is a true blessing to have you in our lives."

And to my wonderful husband -- the man of my dreams -- "Thank you. I
love you. Happy Anniversary to the best dad in the world."

fgoodwin wrote:
Men of character, boys of fortune

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/colu...01/173704.html
http://tinyurl.com/9smf7

By Rebecca Hagelin

Nov 1, 2005

Picture the scene: Boys and their parents gathered to discuss a
"youthful indiscretion" and its consequences. I was once at such a
meeting, and I was struck by the thought that what America needs
perhaps more than anything else is fathers who will father.

[I tend to agree with that.]

I'm the mother of two teenage boys, and believe me, I am well
acquainted with the behaviors that have led to the popular phrase
"boys will be boys." But I am also blessed to know what it means to
my sons' development and character for them to have a father who
holds them accountable, is engaged in their lives, and is intimately
familiar with their strengths, weaknesses, personalities and individual
needs.

[Sure; such a father is irreplaceable, just like having a good mom.]

On that particular evening, several parents had heavy hearts. Their
sons, with no ill intent, had landed in trouble by making some pretty
sophomoric decisions (specifically, entering a nearby abandoned house).
Sounds pretty innocuous -- except that there were "No trespassing"
signs posted in clear view. But that incident (thank goodness, now but
a memory) ended up being a lesson in life for the boys -- a lesson that
will undoubtedly help them avoid making bigger mistakes later in life.
Why? Because their fathers stepped in to make certain that the lessons
were learned.

[Cool!]

That's the kind of father my sons have.

[They are lucky boys, indeed with TWO parents who care.]


This month, my husband and I celebrate 21 years of marriage, and I
consider myself one of the luckiest wives on earth. My husband is my
hero (for many reasons which shall remain private!) but one I am
willing to discuss is the fact that he's an amazing father to our three
children.

[How wonderful. Congrats to both of you. It has been my constant
opinion that like tends to attract like, so if your husband is your
hero, I'm guessing he feels the same way about you.]

(edit)

Social science research, statistics and real life unequivocally tell us
that the safest, healthiest, most nurturing place for children is in a
home with a mother and father who are married to each other. Yet,
according to the National Fatherhood Initiative, some 24 million
children live in homes where fathers are absent, meaning one in three
children "go to sleep in a home in which their father doesn't
live." Fatherlessness is the great American tragedy of modern times.

[No one can promise a child a home with two parents anymoreso than the
govt. can promise each family two chickens in every pot, or two cars in
every garage. Divorce happens; fathers abandon. But, yes...it would
be better if more fathers spent their time interacting with their
kids.]

Given that so many children lack the fathers they need and crave, why
is it that the popular culture constantly devalues the role of fathers
instead of building it up?

[There is no discrimination against fathers, or at least, none that
could ever be shown. In that regard, designing social programs FOR
fathers would tend to be giving fathers SPECIAL RIGHTS. A free and
democratic society doesn't build fathers up at the expense of everyone
else. It's just that simple. It isn't that society "devalues"
fathers; it's that fathers don't live up to being valued.]

Flip on the television and watch for just one evening. You'll find
that virtually every commercial and sitcom portrays fathers as either
wimpy or ignorant. The message to our kids is pretty clear: Dads are
losers.

[I'd LOVE to see some good role model fathers on tv. I don't watch
much tv but there's one show called 7th Heaven that has a strong male
role model father. He is SO strong that he has hired his DAUGHTER as
his assist. minister. Now that's a strong role model, and secure, and
not at all afraid of being upstaged by his loving family. ]

What does that say to our children about the value of their own
fathers?

[I just showed you a show depicting a strong male role model. I'm sure
there are others.]

To young boys about their own possible futures as fathers? To
young girls about what to look for in a future husband? To the men who
are already dads?

[Another show, "Everwood" depicts a neurosurgen who gives up a
lucrative exciting surgery practice to spend time with his children.
So, I'm not sure why you think there are not shows with good strong
role models.]

The media must be crazy. But I ain't crazy -- either as a columnist
or a wife. So as just one small voice in today's mass media, I'm
going to do my part to say to all the great dads out there, "Thank
you. We need you."

[You BET!...I agree here. All those good dads who stay and love and
are secure enough to not have CONTROL issues. Yeah...to you!]

(edit)

A large part of the reason your husband is who he is, is you.
Congratulations, you deserve what you have.


"fgoodwin" wrote in message
oups.com...
Men of character, boys of fortune

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/colu...01/173704.html
http://tinyurl.com/9smf7

By Rebecca Hagelin

Nov 1, 2005

Picture the scene: Boys and their parents gathered to discuss a
"youthful indiscretion" and its consequences. I was once at such a
meeting, and I was struck by the thought that what America needs
perhaps more than anything else is fathers who will father.

I'm the mother of two teenage boys, and believe me, I am well
acquainted with the behaviors that have led to the popular phrase
"boys will be boys." But I am also blessed to know what it means to
my sons' development and character for them to have a father who
holds them accountable, is engaged in their lives, and is intimately
familiar with their strengths, weaknesses, personalities and individual
needs.

On that particular evening, several parents had heavy hearts. Their
sons, with no ill intent, had landed in trouble by making some pretty
sophomoric decisions (specifically, entering a nearby abandoned house).
Sounds pretty innocuous -- except that there were "No trespassing"
signs posted in clear view. But that incident (thank goodness, now but
a memory) ended up being a lesson in life for the boys -- a lesson that
will undoubtedly help them avoid making bigger mistakes later in life.
Why? Because their fathers stepped in to make certain that the lessons
were learned.

That's the kind of father my sons have. This month, my husband and I
celebrate 21 years of marriage, and I consider myself one of the
luckiest wives on earth. My husband is my hero (for many reasons which
shall remain private!) but one I am willing to discuss is the fact that
he's an amazing father to our three children.
I recently had the privilege of watching my eldest son become an Eagle
Scout. I peeked my head around the corner just in time to hear the
District Council representative of the Boy Scouts say to my son,
"Congratulations. Your rank of Eagle Scout begins tonight."

About 30 minutes earlier, Drew had emerged from his hour-long Eagle
Scout Board of Review both relieved and nervous. Although the official
ceremony will take place in the coming months, for Drew the night was
the final requirement of nearly a decade of achieving goals, working
hard, earning merit badges, volunteering and developing leadership
skills. For me, it was a night to reflect both on the man that Drew has
become, and on the man that helped him accomplish one of the greatest
achievements possible for young men.

I am proud of my son, but I am absolutely enamored with my amazing
husband.

Plainly put, Drew would never have made the rank without the support,
encouragement, guidance and love of his father. Yes, Drew worked hard
over many years, but it was his father that coached him, went on
countless camping trips, studied with him, taught him about discipline,
and most of all, showed him how to be a committed leader and a man of
strong character.

Social science research, statistics and real life unequivocally tell us
that the safest, healthiest, most nurturing place for children is in a
home with a mother and father who are married to each other. Yet,
according to the National Fatherhood Initiative, some 24 million
children live in homes where fathers are absent, meaning one in three
children "go to sleep in a home in which their father doesn't
live." Fatherlessness is the great American tragedy of modern times.

Given that so many children lack the fathers they need and crave, why
is it that the popular culture constantly devalues the role of fathers
instead of building it up?

Flip on the television and watch for just one evening. You'll find
that virtually every commercial and sitcom portrays fathers as either
wimpy or ignorant. The message to our kids is pretty clear: Dads are
losers.

What does that say to our children about the value of their own
fathers? To young boys about their own possible futures as fathers? To
young girls about what to look for in a future husband? To the men who
are already dads?

The media must be crazy. But I ain't crazy -- either as a columnist
or a wife. So as just one small voice in today's mass media, I'm
going to do my part to say to all the great dads out there, "Thank
you. We need you."

And to the wonderful fathers of the families we are so thankful to have
as close friends and allies in the effort to raise boys of character, I
say, "Thank you. It is a true blessing to have you in our lives."

And to my wonderful husband -- the man of my dreams -- "Thank you. I
love you. Happy Anniversary to the best dad in the world."

fgoodwin wrote:

Given that so many children lack the fathers they need and crave, why
is it that the popular culture constantly devalues the role of fathers
instead of building it up?

Flip on the television and watch for just one evening. You'll find
that virtually every commercial and sitcom portrays fathers as either
wimpy or ignorant. The message to our kids is pretty clear: Dads are
losers.

Feminism, I assume?

Equality is good, but it would have been preferable to
see good and strong female role models instead of weak
male role models.

Feminists in high positions, for some reason, prefer
to see men weaker instead of seeing women equal
and stronger about what they want to do. But
these feminists aren't even strong about what
they want. They just want to emulate men to
the nth degree! Their feminism is the ultimate
man-worship.

There was a feminist recently gloating in print about
the sudden drop in male college enrollments.

I would say the drop is the result of the "autism epidemic"
finally hitting the colleges, and should be a cause of concern to
everybody. The feminist saw it as something very good instead.
That made me wonder if feminists in position of power
wouldn't prefer to see more "autism", as the modern
"autism epidemic" is very selective in hitting boys.
The alt theory is that mercury causes most damage
in presence of high-testestorene. (Or as our resident
anti-alts would have it, new and improved diagnostic
criteria show that more boys are autistic.) That
also makes me wonder if feminists in positions of
power haven't become totally insane in their
desire to become "totally like men".

wrote:
fgoodwin wrote:

Given that so many children lack the fathers they need and crave, why
is it that the popular culture constantly devalues the role of fathers
instead of building it up?

Flip on the television and watch for just one evening. You'll find
that virtually every commercial and sitcom portrays fathers as either
wimpy or ignorant. The message to our kids is pretty clear: Dads are
losers.

Feminism, I assume?

Equality is good, but it would have been preferable to
see good and strong female role models instead of weak
male role models.

Feminists in high positions, for some reason, prefer
to see men weaker instead of seeing women equal
and stronger about what they want to do. But
these feminists aren't even strong about what
they want. They just want to emulate men to
the nth degree! Their feminism is the ultimate
man-worship.

There was a feminist recently gloating in print about
the sudden drop in male college enrollments.

I would say the drop is the result of the "autism epidemic"
finally hitting the colleges, and should be a cause of concern to
everybody. The feminist saw it as something very good instead.
That made me wonder if feminists in position of power
wouldn't prefer to see more "autism", as the modern
"autism epidemic" is very selective in hitting boys.
The alt theory is that mercury causes most damage
in presence of high-testestorene. (Or as our resident
anti-alts would have it, new and improved diagnostic
criteria show that more boys are autistic.) That
also makes me wonder if feminists in positions of
power haven't become totally insane in their
desire to become "totally like men".

PS: One may wonder, the "autism epidemic" only hits
1 in 160 or so children, how can it have an
impact on college enrollment?

The answer could be that "high testestorene"
boys would normally have been more likely to
be college-bound ones among the boys. Also,
when you look at boys only, it's more like
1 in 80 boys.

"Hyerdahl" wrote in message
oups.com...

fgoodwin wrote:
Men of character, boys of fortune

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/colu...01/173704.html
http://tinyurl.com/9smf7

By Rebecca Hagelin

Nov 1, 2005

Picture the scene: Boys and their parents gathered to discuss a
"youthful indiscretion" and its consequences. I was once at such a
meeting, and I was struck by the thought that what America needs
perhaps more than anything else is fathers who will father.

[I tend to agree with that.]

I'm the mother of two teenage boys, and believe me, I am well
acquainted with the behaviors that have led to the popular phrase
"boys will be boys." But I am also blessed to know what it means to
my sons' development and character for them to have a father who
holds them accountable, is engaged in their lives, and is intimately
familiar with their strengths, weaknesses, personalities and individual
needs.

[Sure; such a father is irreplaceable, just like having a good mom.]

On that particular evening, several parents had heavy hearts. Their
sons, with no ill intent, had landed in trouble by making some pretty
sophomoric decisions (specifically, entering a nearby abandoned house).
Sounds pretty innocuous -- except that there were "No trespassing"
signs posted in clear view. But that incident (thank goodness, now but
a memory) ended up being a lesson in life for the boys -- a lesson that
will undoubtedly help them avoid making bigger mistakes later in life.
Why? Because their fathers stepped in to make certain that the lessons
were learned.

[Cool!]

That's the kind of father my sons have.

[They are lucky boys, indeed with TWO parents who care.]


This month, my husband and I celebrate 21 years of marriage, and I
consider myself one of the luckiest wives on earth. My husband is my
hero (for many reasons which shall remain private!) but one I am
willing to discuss is the fact that he's an amazing father to our three
children.

[How wonderful. Congrats to both of you. It has been my constant
opinion that like tends to attract like, so if your husband is your
hero, I'm guessing he feels the same way about you.]

(edit)

Social science research, statistics and real life unequivocally tell us
that the safest, healthiest, most nurturing place for children is in a
home with a mother and father who are married to each other. Yet,
according to the National Fatherhood Initiative, some 24 million
children live in homes where fathers are absent, meaning one in three
children "go to sleep in a home in which their father doesn't
live." Fatherlessness is the great American tragedy of modern times.

[No one can promise a child a home with two parents anymoreso than the
govt. can promise each family two chickens in every pot, or two cars in
every garage. Divorce happens; fathers abandon. But, yes...it would
be better if more fathers spent their time interacting with their
kids.]

Given that so many children lack the fathers they need and crave, why
is it that the popular culture constantly devalues the role of fathers
instead of building it up?

[There is no discrimination against fathers, or at least, none that
could ever be shown.


There is plenty of discrimination against fathers in family court.



In that regard, designing social programs FOR
fathers would tend to be giving fathers SPECIAL RIGHTS. A free and
democratic society doesn't build fathers up at the expense of everyone
else. It's just that simple. It isn't that society "devalues"
fathers; it's that fathers don't live up to being valued.]

Flip on the television and watch for just one evening. You'll find
that virtually every commercial and sitcom portrays fathers as either
wimpy or ignorant. The message to our kids is pretty clear: Dads are
losers.

[I'd LOVE to see some good role model fathers on tv. I don't watch
much tv but there's one show called 7th Heaven that has a strong male
role model father. He is SO strong that he has hired his DAUGHTER as
his assist. minister. Now that's a strong role model, and secure, and
not at all afraid of being upstaged by his loving family. ]

What does that say to our children about the value of their own
fathers?

[I just showed you a show depicting a strong male role model. I'm sure
there are others.]

To young boys about their own possible futures as fathers? To
young girls about what to look for in a future husband? To the men who
are already dads?

[Another show, "Everwood" depicts a neurosurgen who gives up a
lucrative exciting surgery practice to spend time with his children.
So, I'm not sure why you think there are not shows with good strong
role models.]

The media must be crazy. But I ain't crazy -- either as a columnist
or a wife. So as just one small voice in today's mass media, I'm
going to do my part to say to all the great dads out there, "Thank
you. We need you."

[You BET!...I agree here. All those good dads who stay and love and
are secure enough to not have CONTROL issues. Yeah...to you!]

(edit)

Stephanie wrote:
"Hyerdahl" wrote in message
oups.com...

fgoodwin wrote:
Men of character, boys of fortune

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/colu...01/173704.html
http://tinyurl.com/9smf7

By Rebecca Hagelin

Nov 1, 2005

Picture the scene: Boys and their parents gathered to discuss a
"youthful indiscretion" and its consequences. I was once at such a
meeting, and I was struck by the thought that what America needs
perhaps more than anything else is fathers who will father.

[I tend to agree with that.]

I'm the mother of two teenage boys, and believe me, I am well
acquainted with the behaviors that have led to the popular phrase
"boys will be boys." But I am also blessed to know what it means to
my sons' development and character for them to have a father who
holds them accountable, is engaged in their lives, and is intimately
familiar with their strengths, weaknesses, personalities and individual
needs.

[Sure; such a father is irreplaceable, just like having a good mom.]

On that particular evening, several parents had heavy hearts. Their
sons, with no ill intent, had landed in trouble by making some pretty
sophomoric decisions (specifically, entering a nearby abandoned house).
Sounds pretty innocuous -- except that there were "No trespassing"
signs posted in clear view. But that incident (thank goodness, now but
a memory) ended up being a lesson in life for the boys -- a lesson that
will undoubtedly help them avoid making bigger mistakes later in life.
Why? Because their fathers stepped in to make certain that the lessons
were learned.

[Cool!]

That's the kind of father my sons have.

[They are lucky boys, indeed with TWO parents who care.]


This month, my husband and I celebrate 21 years of marriage, and I
consider myself one of the luckiest wives on earth. My husband is my
hero (for many reasons which shall remain private!) but one I am
willing to discuss is the fact that he's an amazing father to our three
children.

[How wonderful. Congrats to both of you. It has been my constant
opinion that like tends to attract like, so if your husband is your
hero, I'm guessing he feels the same way about you.]

(edit)

Social science research, statistics and real life unequivocally tell us
that the safest, healthiest, most nurturing place for children is in a
home with a mother and father who are married to each other. Yet,
according to the National Fatherhood Initiative, some 24 million
children live in homes where fathers are absent, meaning one in three
children "go to sleep in a home in which their father doesn't
live." Fatherlessness is the great American tragedy of modern times.

[No one can promise a child a home with two parents anymoreso than the
govt. can promise each family two chickens in every pot, or two cars in
every garage. Divorce happens; fathers abandon. But, yes...it would
be better if more fathers spent their time interacting with their
kids.]

Given that so many children lack the fathers they need and crave, why
is it that the popular culture constantly devalues the role of fathers
instead of building it up?

[There is no discrimination against fathers, or at least, none that
could ever be shown.


There is plenty of discrimination against fathers in family court.

Then PROVE IT! Just saying a thing doesn't make it so.


In that regard, designing social programs FOR
fathers would tend to be giving fathers SPECIAL RIGHTS. A free and
democratic society doesn't build fathers up at the expense of everyone
else. It's just that simple. It isn't that society "devalues"
fathers; it's that fathers don't live up to being valued.]

Flip on the television and watch for just one evening. You'll find
that virtually every commercial and sitcom portrays fathers as either
wimpy or ignorant. The message to our kids is pretty clear: Dads are
losers.

[I'd LOVE to see some good role model fathers on tv. I don't watch
much tv but there's one show called 7th Heaven that has a strong male
role model father. He is SO strong that he has hired his DAUGHTER as
his assist. minister. Now that's a strong role model, and secure, and
not at all afraid of being upstaged by his loving family. ]

What does that say to our children about the value of their own
fathers?

[I just showed you a show depicting a strong male role model. I'm sure
there are others.]

To young boys about their own possible futures as fathers? To
young girls about what to look for in a future husband? To the men who
are already dads?

[Another show, "Everwood" depicts a neurosurgen who gives up a
lucrative exciting surgery practice to spend time with his children.
So, I'm not sure why you think there are not shows with good strong
role models.]

The media must be crazy. But I ain't crazy -- either as a columnist
or a wife. So as just one small voice in today's mass media, I'm
going to do my part to say to all the great dads out there, "Thank
you. We need you."

[You BET!...I agree here. All those good dads who stay and love and
are secure enough to not have CONTROL issues. Yeah...to you!]

(edit)

On 1 Nov 2005 06:31:51 -0800, "Hyerdahl" wrote:

Given that so many children lack the fathers they need and crave, why
is it that the popular culture constantly devalues the role of fathers
instead of building it up?

[There is no discrimination against fathers, or at least, none that
could ever be shown. In that regard, designing social programs FOR
fathers would tend to be giving fathers SPECIAL RIGHTS. A free and
democratic society doesn't build fathers up at the expense of everyone
else. It's just that simple. It isn't that society "devalues"
fathers; it's that fathers don't live up to being valued.]

That's just pitiful, hyperdung. Anyone has only to watch TV to see how
devalued men and fathers are. Anyone has only to watch the family
courts to see how fathers are discriminated against. How false
restraining orders are regular ploys in divorces, how fathers are
routinely denied custody or even access, how society forces them into
the role of wallet. For christs sake, don't you read anything in
soc.men on this??? You must be blind. The persistent pro-mother
anti-father bias (think Women/Infants/Children (WIC), Section 8 houing
(mothers with children), etc endless etc) is so prevalent that you're
obviously willfully not seeing it. In other words, talking to you is a
waste of time, as usual.

Viking wrote:
On 1 Nov 2005 06:31:51 -0800, "Hyerdahl" wrote:

Given that so many children lack the fathers they need and crave, why
is it that the popular culture constantly devalues the role of fathers
instead of building it up?

[There is no discrimination against fathers, or at least, none that
could ever be shown. In that regard, designing social programs FOR
fathers would tend to be giving fathers SPECIAL RIGHTS. A free and
democratic society doesn't build fathers up at the expense of everyone
else. It's just that simple. It isn't that society "devalues"
fathers; it's that fathers don't live up to being valued.]

That's just pitiful, hyperdung. Anyone has only to watch TV to see how
devalued men and fathers are. Anyone has only to watch the family
courts to see how fathers are discriminated against.

[TV portrays good fathers and bad, just like mothers. I provided two
examples of tv portrayals of good fathers, i.e Everwood and 7th
Heaven.]


How false restraining orders are regular ploys in divorces, how
fathers are
routinely denied custody or even access, how society forces them into
the role of wallet.

Oh pshaw! Everyone knows that restraining orders are just as legal for
men as for women to obtain and that law works for women the same way it
works for men. As to mere social choices, if you don't want kids,
don't risk having any.

For christs sake, don't you read anything in
soc.men on this???

Soc.men is a playground, and not a genuine news source. It's for fun.
I prefer to obtain factual information from well done scientific
studies and there is no study showing discrimination against men in
family court. Do you have such a study, for I have never seen one.

You must be blind.

Show me the money, honey.


The persistent pro-mother anti-father bias (think
Women/Infants/Children (WIC), Section 8 houing(mothers with children),
etc endless etc) is so prevalent that you're
obviously willfully not seeing it.


WIC is a program for infants and gestating parents. If you are
gestating, you can apply. It serves the interests of all of humanity
to make sure babies are fed. Section 8 housing is sex/gender neutral
and you may also be placed there if you are raising a child alone. You
see, saying something is biased is a lot easier than PROVING it. ;-)

In other words, talking to you is waste of time, as usual.


Yes, you haven't any ammunition. Next time, why not try to find some.

wrote:
fgoodwin wrote:


Equality is good, but it would have been preferable to
see good and strong female role models instead of weak
male role models.

I agree with that. But, don't you think there are some good male role
models out there? I sure do.

Feminists in high positions, for some reason, prefer
to see men weaker instead of seeing women equal
and stronger about what they want to do.

Nonsense! Do you actually think Condie Rice enjoys working for a weak
milk-toast man who derives power from others in his administration?
Don't you think that strong women would have prefered Tony Blair to
have grown a dick in his decision making regarding Iraq? What proof do
you have to bolster your claim that strong women prefer weak men?


But these feminists aren't even strong about what
they want. They just want to emulate men to
the nth degree!

I don't see that at all. In fact, even female laywers today can win
cases in pink suits. :-) Feminism was about having the same choices as
men regarding making money, voting, property ownership, etc. In fact,
feminism stands for the notion that women need not BE men to BE equal.

Their feminism is the ultimate man-worship.

So, do you beleive that feminisim stands for the notion that women have
to have the same muscles that men have in order to have the same
rights? Because if you don't believe that, then your theory is dead.

There was a feminist recently gloating in print about the sudden drop
in male college enrollments.

That's doubtfull. More than likely he or she was pleased that women
were increasing in college enrollment, putting down the sexist theory
that more women want to stay at home.

I would say the drop is the result of the "autism epidemic"
finally hitting the colleges, and should be a cause of concern to
everybody.

I have not heard that theory expressed in any science journals.

The feminist saw it as something very good instead.

No, fems rejoice when women take advantage of their choices, which they
are doing in colleges.

That made me wonder if feminists in position of power
wouldn't prefer to see more "autism", as the modern
"autism epidemic" is very selective in hitting boys.

That's ridiculous! Most feminists (according to a dated NOW survey)
are married with children, and that would seem to include male
children. Show me any feminist statement declaring wanting negatives
toward boys. Obviously, you can't, so you're making things up trying
to squeeze tears.