Ritalin Helps Beat Cancer Fatigue

"Roger Schlafly" wrote in message
t...
"SumBuny" wrote
You ask a diabetic, and asthmatic, a hypertensive, an allergic, a
migraineur
to "just stop taking your meds", and when they say, "no," are you going
to
say that they are addicts?

There is a movement to redefine "addiction" so that you can only be
addicted to something that is bad for you. That way, no prescribed
drug could ever be addictive. (I don't think that such a change would
be helpful.)

I have not stated that beneficial medications can be addicting--*when*
abused....I was questioning your overly broad and ambiguous definition of
the term.


You *are* stating categorically that you have, and will, *refuse all
medications*?

No. I take something on rare occasions.


OK, so you would refuse to take medications for any chronic condition?

Buny

"Jon Quixote" wrote in message
t...
"Roger Schlafly" wrote in message
t...
"SumBuny" wrote

You *are* stating categorically that you have, and will, *refuse all
medications*?

No. I take something on rare occasions.

So then it's a matter of degree as to whether one is defined as
"addicted"?
Do you take different medications each and every time you feel the
occasion
to use them? Aspirin one time, acetameniphin the next? Tums one time,
Rolaids the next? I'm willing to bet that you tend to take the same
medicine, even the same brand, every time you DO feel the need for it,
correct?

Your concern seems overly-exaggerated to me. I am aware of no child who
demanded the return to Ritalin when removed from it simply because they
miss
the rush.

nodding Considering how many times we *forget* to take our
medications...rather odd for something we are suppsoedly "addicted" to, no?

Buny

"jake" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 19:59:11 -0600, "SumBuny"
wrote:


"jake" wrote in message
.. .


all of the above ..with the exception of pain..
are biologically identifiable diseases..

and pain can in many cases be traced to something concrete.

Most cases it cannot,

In some cases it cannot..I am not sure where the evidence is for
suggesting in "most" cases it cannot..


Phantom pain from a missing limb, neuralgia (pain continuing despite the
fact that the source of the pain has been removed or healed), are just a
couple of examples that come to mind....there is no true cause for the pain.
Add in the degree of pain felt (why do some people seem to have a "high
tolerance" for pain and others have very low)....these are are *subjectively
measured* and cannot be objectively proven....

You would suggest that all of these be refused medication because there is
no objective test/measurement for the amount of pain felt?

Buny

"nknisley" wrote in message
...
SumBuny wrote:

"jake" wrote in message
...

this is your straw man diversion


all of the above ..with the exception of pain..
are biologically identifiable diseases..

and pain can in many cases be traced to something concrete.


Most cases it cannot, yet the dcotor does not insist the patient is not
in
pain...what do you do when pain cannot be "traced back to something
concrete"?

WRT Block's insistence that ADHD is an "invented label": Block herself
treats "inattention" and does (did?) so with her own brand of
nutritional supplement: "Concentration for Your Kids," which according
to the prominent wording on the label, "Enhances Attention." I guess
it's OK to treat ADHD, as long as you don't use that "invented label,"
ADHD, and if you treat it with a product other than FDA approved
medication.

I didn't see any mention of this supplement on Block's current website,
but IIANM, until as recently as early this year, it was marketed as part
of "The Block System."

Block's product may now be marketed under a new name: "Dr. Block's
DMAE," although I couldn't find any mention of that product on her site
either.

Here's what Block's ad for her product used to say:


http://web.archive.org/web/200208021.../products.html

(If that link doesn't wrap right, use:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V2AD32CD6 )


Looking up the ingredients, I am stunned to see PABA to be *ingested*! That
stuff makes me break out in hives topically (it is a common ingredient in
sunscreen, which is common in allergies--so much so you see "PABA Free" on
lables)...and she expects me to ingest it?!?!

Another of the ingredients listed is "Choline." I looked to see what that
was and found:
http://community.healthgate.com/GetC...=/tnp/pg000469
""Choline has only recently been recognized as an essential nutrient.
Choline is part of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine, which plays a major
role in the brain; for this reason, many studies have been designed to look
at choline's role in brain function.

Choline functions as a part of a major biochemical process in the body
called methylation; choline acts as a methyl donor.

In higher dosages, minor but annoying side effects may occur, such as
abdominal discomfort, diarrhea, and nausea. Maximum safe dosages for young
children, pregnant or nursing women, or those with severe liver or kidney
disease have not been determined.""



Hmmmm...sounds like one of her ingredients is a drug that affects the brain,
and affects methyl....and she complains about methylphenidate? Do I see a
pot calling a kettle black? She is pushing a drug that affects the
brain...while decrying medications that do the same????

Not to mention that "max safe dosages for young children has not been
determined..." This is what she is insisting is safer for our kids?

She also lists many types of "friendly bacteria", the most widely known is
acidophilus...however, this also does not have an established safe level for
kids:
http://my.webmd.com/content/drugs/1/4046_1398?src=Inktomi&condition=Drugs_and_Herbs_(N ew)
""There is no information available regarding the use of acidophilus by
children. Do not give any herbal / health supplement to a child without
first talking to the child's doctor.

Although uncommon, allergic reactions to acidophilus have been reported.
Stop taking acidophilus and seek emergency medical attention if you
experience symptoms of a serious allergic reaction including difficulty
breathing; closing of your throat; swelling of your lips, tongue, or face;
or hives."""


Wow...this woman insists that taking methylphenidate is dangerous, and then
she offers something that I *know* causes hives topically, and other
ingredients that have been known to produce anaphylactic shock?? Oh, yea,
let me stop taking something that has proven useful and not dangerous, and
give me hives and shock!!!


Buny

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:11:57 -0600, "SumBuny"
wrote:

[snip]

Another of the ingredients listed is "Choline." I looked to see what that
was and found:
http://community.healthgate.com/GetC...=/tnp/pg000469
""Choline has only recently been recognized as an essential nutrient.
Choline is part of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine, which plays a major
role in the brain; for this reason, many studies have been designed to look
at choline's role in brain function.

Choline functions as a part of a major biochemical process in the body
called methylation; choline acts as a methyl donor.

In higher dosages, minor but annoying side effects may occur, such as
abdominal discomfort, diarrhea, and nausea. Maximum safe dosages for young
children, pregnant or nursing women, or those with severe liver or kidney
disease have not been determined.""



Hmmmm...sounds like one of her ingredients is a drug that affects the brain,
and affects methyl....and she complains about methylphenidate? Do I see a
pot calling a kettle black? She is pushing a drug that affects the
brain...while decrying medications that do the same????

Not to mention that "max safe dosages for young children has not been
determined..." This is what she is insisting is safer for our kids?

She also lists many types of "friendly bacteria", the most widely known is
acidophilus...however, this also does not have an established safe level for
kids:
http://my.webmd.com/content/drugs/1/4046_1398?src=Inktomi&condition=Drugs_and_Herbs_(N ew)
""There is no information available regarding the use of acidophilus by
children. Do not give any herbal / health supplement to a child without
first talking to the child's doctor.

Although uncommon, allergic reactions to acidophilus have been reported.
Stop taking acidophilus and seek emergency medical attention if you
experience symptoms of a serious allergic reaction including difficulty
breathing; closing of your throat; swelling of your lips, tongue, or face;
or hives."""


Wow...this woman insists that taking methylphenidate is dangerous, and then
she offers something that I *know* causes hives topically, and other
ingredients that have been known to produce anaphylactic shock?? Oh, yea,
let me stop taking something that has proven useful and not dangerous, and
give me hives and shock!!!

Yeah, but hers is all natural, Buny--it doesn't come from one of those nasty
pharmaceutical companies!

Besides--what could you have against the poor woman turning a profit?

Joe Parsons

"Joe Parsons" wrote in message
...
Yeah, but hers is all natural, Buny--it doesn't come from one of those
nasty
pharmaceutical companies!

G So is belladonna, but I don't plan on drinking any of that!

"The famous words of Socrates...'I drank what????' "
--from the movie "Real Genius"



Besides--what could you have against the poor woman turning a profit?


g How many poor women work for the pharmaceutical companies are also
needing income that she is decrying?
Buny

"jake" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 19:29:27 GMT, "CBI" wrote:



"jake" wrote in message
.. .

yet the dcotor does not insist the patient is not in
pain...what do you do when pain cannot be "traced back to something
concrete"?

Iam not too sure in the USA where cash..lines of credit and insurance
determine the type of treatment if any..
but in the UK..where treatment is provided on the basis of clinical
need..a common procedure is to refer the patient to a Pain Clinic.

Nice dodge. How about answering the question?

dodge??

what part of

"Q. what do you do when pain cannot be "traced back to something
concrete?

A.a common procedure is to refer the patient to a Pain Clinic."

do you not understand?

Yes - you are apparently trying to maintain that ADHD is not real since
there is no objective test yet pain is real despite the lack of an objective
test. He asked you a question regarding this. Your answer is, in essence,
"go ask someone else. "

You made the claim. Now you answer the questions. How do you evaluate pain
with no obvious cause? Specifically, how do you establish that it is real?
How does this differ from the diagnosis of ADHD (i.e why is one valid but
the other isn't?)?

--
CBI, MD

"jake" wrote in message
...

How do you evaluate pain
with no obvious cause?

unlike some in this forum who feel quite free to diagnose unmet
strangers with ADHD and prescribe drugs for them I would not have the
hubris to even attempt to..

No - You have the hubris to claim that ADHD is not a real entity. You say
that pain is a real entity worthy of treatment but when asked how the
diagnosis/reality of the two differ you just say to ask a pain specialist.
If that is your answer for pain then why is not your solution for ADHD to
just refer the kid to a qualified specialist?



Specifically, how do you establish that it is real?

I do not..that is a matter for a neurologist..

Then how do you establish that ADHD is not real without also having to
discount pain?


How does this differ from the diagnosis of ADHD (i.e why is one valid but
the other isn't?)?

one is a medical problem..the other is not a medical problem but the
medicalization of social issues..

How can you accept pain with no obvious cause (like RSD) as a medical
problem but not ADHD? What criterion are you using other than just starting
with your own presumptions?

--
CBI, MD

"SumBuny" wrote
Hmm...what about those who ingest antihistimines for their stimulating
effects? They are abusing the OTC meds, but according to this line,
cannot
be addicting....

Sorry, I just don't know if they are addicting or not.

Are you just as vocal in decrying all stimulants taken solely for the
effect
on the brain? I expect to see identical articles posted by you demanding
that all caffeinated products, all chocolate (has the same chemical as
marijuana), all alcohol products be treated in the same manner that you
demand medically prescribed ADHD meds treated...

I do know parents who let their kids eat chocolate on a nearly daily
basis. I also know people who routinely give chocolate to other people's
kids, without checking with the parents. I don't really agree with them.
However, I don't have any research articles one way or the other.
If anyone does, I'd be interested to see them.

"SumBuny" wrote
You *are* stating categorically that you have, and will, *refuse all
medications*?
No. I take something on rare occasions.
OK, so you would refuse to take medications for any chronic condition?

No. But all things being equal, I'd much rather avoid a long-term drug
dependency.