snack problem at gym daycare

I really mean no offense toward Anne (and I know this isn't what you
suggested in the least), but I do get annoyed when I hear other parents
b*tching about how it's not fair to ban PB&J for everyone, due to the
needs of one kid, and how that kid just oughta be carrying epis. Well
yes, they should be carrying epis, but having a peanut-free school
hardly seems like a big deal to the other kids. Like, "oh, my
GODDDD!!! I CAN'T PACK PB&J... WHAT'S THIS WORLD COMING TO!" For
heaven's sack, give them the PB&J when the get home as a snack, and
pack something else.

I'm not asking to be able to provide something that contains peanut butter,
I'm asking to be able to buy something off a shelf that doesn't contain nuts
in it's ingredients list. I think not providing something that clearly
contains nuts is entirely reasonable. I was also just given a copy of our
preschools snack recommendations, quite clearly no peanuts or peanut butter,
but also no mention of checking packets to check where they are packaged
etc. which would suggest to me that they at least are going by the
ingredient list rather than a warning. If the gym daycare is going to come
down strict on this and state that products must be guaranteed nut free,
then they need to provide information about where such things can be
obtains. It's also possible to order food from the Bistro at lunch time, I'd
put money on at least some of the catering products used to make the food
also having similar warnings.

Anne

I may be way off-base here, but why bring something packaged? At DD1
and DD2's daycare, they had a requirement that all snacks be nut-free
(and in a facility that was nut-free), so simple things like steamed
baby carrots, hard-boiled eggs, very very thin sliced apples and the
like were pretty common.

convenience mainly, I have at times sent baby carrots but usually only as
part of a lunch, I'm not going to faff with hardboiled eggs, I don't know
how long they keep in the fridge, but I certainly don't have time to be
doing that on a regular basis. Thin sliced apples might work, but
realistically, I'm often in quite a rush and that's not something you can do
the night before, it would be brown mush by the time you got to it! A
package that goes in the bin also saves the forgetfulness of leaving the
container in the bag and finding a smelly mess a couple of days later. Life
right now needs shortcuts.

Anne

Cathy Weeks wrote:

I really mean no offense toward Anne (and I know this isn't what you
suggested in the least), but I do get annoyed when I hear other parents
b*tching about how it's not fair to ban PB&J for everyone, due to the
needs of one kid, and how that kid just oughta be carrying epis. Well
yes, they should be carrying epis, but having a peanut-free school
hardly seems like a big deal to the other kids. Like, "oh, my
GODDDD!!! I CAN'T PACK PB&J... WHAT'S THIS WORLD COMING TO!" For
heaven's sack, give them the PB&J when the get home as a snack, and
pack something else.


I have a *great* deal of sympathy for this, and obviously would not
pack nut/may-contain things for Micah given that situation. But what
about the super picky kid who really only will eat PBJ?? I know a mom
with such a kid, and she's honestly at her wits end about what to send
for school lunch. I don't know enough about peanut allergies: can they
be so bad that even a may-contain snack would be dangerous? And how do
you balance the needs of a highly allergic child with the (not
life-threatening) needs of the rest of the community -- for example,
should airlines monitor what food passengers bring on the plane in case
there's a passenger with a really bad nut allergy? (again, I don't
know enough about these allergies to know whether someone breaking into
a bag of trail mix 18 rows away would cause a reaction...)

And at what point do you decide that the hazards of public places
(school, airplanes, etc.) are too high, and travel by car, homeschool,
whatever?

Em
mama to Micah, 11/14/04

wrote:

I have a *great* deal of sympathy for this, and obviously would not
pack nut/may-contain things for Micah given that situation. But what
about the super picky kid who really only will eat PBJ?? I know a mom
with such a kid, and she's honestly at her wits end about what to send
for school lunch. I don't know enough about peanut allergies: can they
be so bad that even a may-contain snack would be dangerous? And how do
you balance the needs of a highly allergic child with the (not
life-threatening)

That's what I have. Pillbug is highly allergic to
peanuts. His face swells up until his eyes are
slits and he is unrecognizable. My mother gets
this, too, and she describes it as your throat
feeling like it's closed up and you itch deep
inside your skin all over. Not life-threatening,
but it really sucks. And for a non-verbal,
autistic kid, it's even worse because he can't
tell us when it starts... I sure hope Pillbug's
allergy stays non-life-threatening; I don't know
if he can be taught to use an epi-pen.

needs of the rest of the community -- for example,
should airlines monitor what food passengers bring on the plane in case
there's a passenger with a really bad nut allergy? (again, I don't
know enough about these allergies to know whether someone breaking into
a bag of trail mix 18 rows away would cause a reaction...)

I do not know how sensitive people get; Pillbug
just needs to touch it.

And at what point do you decide that the hazards of public places
(school, airplanes, etc.) are too high, and travel by car, homeschool,
whatever?

Assuming an adult understands not to grab someone
else's snacks or he is able to tell others not to
touch him if they've touched peanuts (or whatever
allergen), that adult can likely deal with public
places. For the child, though, if a school (or
gym, or daycare) were unable to prevent allergens
from getting to my child, I suppose I would have no
choice but to keep him home until he is old enough
to understand.

-- Anita --

In article ,
"Anne Rogers" wrote:

Firstly, I feel that they shouldn't have taken the snack away from her, if
the staff member had a genuine concern, she should have been put in a high
chair, out of reaching distance from other kids and me been informed at the
end that that snack wasn't suitable.

If there was a really sensitive child in the room, that might not have been
enough. What SHOULD have happened, however, is that the trainee should have
asked her supervisor about it -- ie, the supervisor should have been present.

so it's something she's going to take up with her supervisor, I'm worried
that it will go the wrong way and that all staff will be advised that such
products are not suitable and we'll find providing appropriate snacks more
difficult in future.

I think you might be borrowing trouble here.

It's all very well suggesting fruit, but at 18mths, all
fruits are still a bit of a choking risk and require more supervision than
she's going to get in that setting.

*Anything* is still a choking risk at that age. If you are unhappy with the
level of supervision, don't send food. I was going to suggest a marvellous
pre-packaged food called a banana, or a mandarin. Cut-up melon or
strawberries, grapes, or blueberries are all hits with DS2 (he's 19mo).

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

"Anne Rogers" wrote in
:

I may be way off-base here, but why bring something
packaged? At DD1 and DD2's daycare, they had a requirement
that all snacks be nut-free (and in a facility that was
nut-free), so simple things like steamed baby carrots,
hard-boiled eggs, very very thin sliced apples and the
like were pretty common.

convenience mainly, I have at times sent baby carrots but
usually only as part of a lunch, I'm not going to faff with
hardboiled eggs, I don't know how long they keep in the
fridge, but I certainly don't have time to be doing that on
a regular basis. Thin sliced apples might work, but
realistically, I'm often in quite a rush and that's not
something you can do the night before, it would be brown
mush by the time you got to it! A package that goes in the
bin also saves the forgetfulness of leaving the container
in the bag and finding a smelly mess a couple of days
later. Life right now needs shortcuts.

hard boiled eggs last about a week if they don't all get
eaten first. i've got 18 laying hens. we boil eggs by the
dozen for snacks.
if you don't want to premake apple scices, try dried apple
(if you're afraid of choking Gerber makes freeze dried apples,
strawberries & bananas, or corn as snacks). however, you can
premake sliced apple without them getting brown by dipping the
slices in lime juice (not as sour as lemon) or, i think
pineapple.
other dried fruit, cut small, is good for snacks too, but not
so good for their teeth.
small squares of potato kugel would be good, or cake if you
give sweets. tiny muffins, doughnuts, yobaby yogurt cups...
lee
--
Question with boldness even the existence of god; because if
there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of
blindfolded
fear. - Thomas Jefferson

"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message
ps.com...
Banty wrote:
I've seen this kind of sentiment before, and I really have to nip it in
the bud.

Epipens are NOT NOT NOT a fix. Not any more than having a
defribrillator on
hand would make it OK to make a kid with a heart problem run a mile in
P.E.!
It's something to be used in an emergency, and such an emergency would
STILL
mean a trip to the hospital, and may not save a life when used. It's
something
that MAY work to stave off life-threatening anaphylaxis. OK? It's not
"whoopsie, oh well, there's the epipen".

As someone who carries epipens due to a life-threatening allergy
(though to insect venom, not nuts, thank god, and as such, I don't have
to worry much about parents sending a wasp venom snack) I'm glad you
wrote this.

I've only had to have epinephrine given to me once, and it's not an
experience I'd care to repeat, let alone have to put a kid through.

I really mean no offense toward Anne (and I know this isn't what you
suggested in the least), but I do get annoyed when I hear other parents
b*tching about how it's not fair to ban PB&J for everyone, due to the
needs of one kid, and how that kid just oughta be carrying epis. Well
yes, they should be carrying epis, but having a peanut-free school
hardly seems like a big deal to the other kids. Like, "oh, my
GODDDD!!! I CAN'T PACK PB&J... WHAT'S THIS WORLD COMING TO!" For
heaven's sack, give them the PB&J when the get home as a snack, and
pack something else.

Sorry for the rant...

There's a difference, though, between "I can't pack PB&J" and "I have to
carefully scrutinize the label of every single thing which my child might
come in contact with before school or take to school to make sure it has
never possibly come into contact with anything containing peanuts". Reading
labels with an eye to food allergies is a time consuming task, and not a
particularly easy one. (And peanuts allergies are easier than most-at least
they're required to list it and have it in a separate box. Try Artificial
colors (my brother's specific allergy) or Cinnamon (mine-and easily as
severe as many peanut allergies).

And, having lived with a life threatening allergy for years, I have to say
that I do wonder how much is parental paranoia. If you KNOW you're likely to
be exposed to an allergen, there are precautions you can take. I know that
if I'm going into an airport, there's going to be a cinnabon, and therefore
I better take medication before I start to avoid the risk of a reaction, for
example.


Cathy Weeks

In article om, Cathy Weeks
says...

Banty wrote:
I've seen this kind of sentiment before, and I really have to nip it in the bud.

Epipens are NOT NOT NOT a fix. Not any more than having a defribrillator on
hand would make it OK to make a kid with a heart problem run a mile in P.E.!
It's something to be used in an emergency, and such an emergency would STILL
mean a trip to the hospital, and may not save a life when used. It's something
that MAY work to stave off life-threatening anaphylaxis. OK? It's not
"whoopsie, oh well, there's the epipen".

As someone who carries epipens due to a life-threatening allergy
(though to insect venom, not nuts, thank god, and as such, I don't have
to worry much about parents sending a wasp venom snack) I'm glad you
wrote this.

I've only had to have epinephrine given to me once, and it's not an
experience I'd care to repeat, let alone have to put a kid through.

I really mean no offense toward Anne (and I know this isn't what you
suggested in the least), but I do get annoyed when I hear other parents
b*tching about how it's not fair to ban PB&J for everyone, due to the
needs of one kid, and how that kid just oughta be carrying epis. Well
yes, they should be carrying epis, but having a peanut-free school
hardly seems like a big deal to the other kids. Like, "oh, my
GODDDD!!! I CAN'T PACK PB&J... WHAT'S THIS WORLD COMING TO!" For
heaven's sack, give them the PB&J when the get home as a snack, and
pack something else.

Sorry for the rant...

Cathy Weeks


I don't blame you for the rant, naturally, but I *do* have sympathy for parents
who are getting thrown this life-or-death HOT POTATO of "you have to pack only
certain snacks, conforming to standards you barely know about, or we have a dead
child on our hands".

If it's an issue, trained staff (probably, one or two staffers who are fully
versed in this) should provide the snacks. This shouldn't be a matter left to
skeighty-eight odd people, only one of even the most well-meaning can make a bad
mistake.

They shouldn't be told not to pack PB&J. They should be told not to pack
anything.

Banty

In article , Donna Metler says...


"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message
ups.com...
Banty wrote:
I've seen this kind of sentiment before, and I really have to nip it in
the bud.

Epipens are NOT NOT NOT a fix. Not any more than having a
defribrillator on
hand would make it OK to make a kid with a heart problem run a mile in
P.E.!
It's something to be used in an emergency, and such an emergency would
STILL
mean a trip to the hospital, and may not save a life when used. It's
something
that MAY work to stave off life-threatening anaphylaxis. OK? It's not
"whoopsie, oh well, there's the epipen".

As someone who carries epipens due to a life-threatening allergy
(though to insect venom, not nuts, thank god, and as such, I don't have
to worry much about parents sending a wasp venom snack) I'm glad you
wrote this.

I've only had to have epinephrine given to me once, and it's not an
experience I'd care to repeat, let alone have to put a kid through.

I really mean no offense toward Anne (and I know this isn't what you
suggested in the least), but I do get annoyed when I hear other parents
b*tching about how it's not fair to ban PB&J for everyone, due to the
needs of one kid, and how that kid just oughta be carrying epis. Well
yes, they should be carrying epis, but having a peanut-free school
hardly seems like a big deal to the other kids. Like, "oh, my
GODDDD!!! I CAN'T PACK PB&J... WHAT'S THIS WORLD COMING TO!" For
heaven's sack, give them the PB&J when the get home as a snack, and
pack something else.

Sorry for the rant...

There's a difference, though, between "I can't pack PB&J" and "I have to
carefully scrutinize the label of every single thing which my child might
come in contact with before school or take to school to make sure it has
never possibly come into contact with anything containing peanuts". Reading
labels with an eye to food allergies is a time consuming task, and not a
particularly easy one. (And peanuts allergies are easier than most-at least
they're required to list it and have it in a separate box. Try Artificial
colors (my brother's specific allergy) or Cinnamon (mine-and easily as
severe as many peanut allergies).

And, having lived with a life threatening allergy for years, I have to say
that I do wonder how much is parental paranoia. If you KNOW you're likely to
be exposed to an allergen, there are precautions you can take. I know that
if I'm going into an airport, there's going to be a cinnabon, and therefore
I better take medication before I start to avoid the risk of a reaction, for
example.


Some of these allergies are especially acute in children and are outgrown to one
extent or another. So the concerns do change between schools and the public
sphere in general.

But I do agree that there may be some parental over-concern or even attention
seeking (re the service dog thread), and it strikes me that in this case, where
kids come an go in a *gym* daycare, it may even be a case of CYA over-abundance
of caution.

Both these things are addressed by having staff provide the snacks if it's a
concern. At the least, the gym, if they're acting in a CYA manner, may
reconsider if it's actually a concern if they have to manage the food.

I strongly favor definitive solutions that involve as few factors (including as
few *people*) as possible.

Banty

"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message
ps.com...
Banty wrote:
I've seen this kind of sentiment before, and I really have to nip it in
the bud.

Epipens are NOT NOT NOT a fix. Not any more than having a defribrillator
on
hand would make it OK to make a kid with a heart problem run a mile in
P.E.!
It's something to be used in an emergency, and such an emergency would
STILL
mean a trip to the hospital, and may not save a life when used. It's
something
that MAY work to stave off life-threatening anaphylaxis. OK? It's not
"whoopsie, oh well, there's the epipen".

As someone who carries epipens due to a life-threatening allergy
(though to insect venom, not nuts, thank god, and as such, I don't have
to worry much about parents sending a wasp venom snack) I'm glad you
wrote this.

I've only had to have epinephrine given to me once, and it's not an
experience I'd care to repeat, let alone have to put a kid through.

I really mean no offense toward Anne (and I know this isn't what you
suggested in the least), but I do get annoyed when I hear other parents
b*tching about how it's not fair to ban PB&J for everyone, due to the
needs of one kid, and how that kid just oughta be carrying epis. Well
yes, they should be carrying epis, but having a peanut-free school
hardly seems like a big deal to the other kids. Like, "oh, my
GODDDD!!! I CAN'T PACK PB&J... WHAT'S THIS WORLD COMING TO!" For
heaven's sack, give them the PB&J when the get home as a snack, and
pack something else.

Sorry for the rant...

Cathy Weeks




My beef was not with the need to pack peanut free stuff, but with the
manufacturers making every damned thing with nuts in it or near it. But then
it dawned on me what a terrific excuse this was to send whole foods instead
of packaged foods and I got over it. DS and I had a conversation about it.
He agreed this was a terrific solution. It was kinda cool.

Oh my DS loved pb&j sandwiches back when he was in a peanut free daycare.
Our store carries a completely tree nut free soy nut butter. Worked great.