A Parenting & kids forum. ParentingBanter.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » ParentingBanter.com forum » misc.kids » General
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Is this racist?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old August 9th 03, 10:31 PM
Sue
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is this racist?

P. Tierney wrote in message
So how does that work -- are they just mixed and stirred together in
the same glass? I like my Guinness quite a bit, but I've never tried
mixing it with anything.


You need a quite a large beer glass for this. You pour in the Guiness first,
then with an upside down spoon held over the glass, you slowly pour the pale
ale over the spoon. The result will be that there is a distinct separation
of the beer at first, but as you drink it, they obviously will be mixed
together. )
--
Sue (this is how my husband does it anyway)
mom to three girls



  #22  
Old August 10th 03, 04:16 AM
toto
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is this racist?

On Sat, 9 Aug 2003 22:14:50 -0700, "newfy" wrote:


"Wendy Marsden" wrote in message
...
I'm driving behind a white GMC Jimmy SUV and it has
exactly one bumper sticker on it that says, "I hunt black
and tans". I'm looking at this with my mouth open thinking
they MUST be talking about dogs, they can't really be
talking about lynching, can they? I look closer to see if
there's a tiny "with" in there. Nope, but there's a silhouette
which I finally figure out (at a stop light when I can study it)
is a dog barking up a tree trunk.


Well, someone might have already pointed out that a "black
and tan" is a type of coonhound. The black and tan being for
their coloring. I have a redbone coonhound myself. The
reason the silhouette was of a dog barking up a tree is because
they tree the racoon/bear/mountain lion, etc. I would be willing
to bet there was no ill intent, just a proud black and tan hunter.


Perhaps, perhaps not. We cannot tell what was in the person's
mind, but the double entendre is there if one knows that black
people were called coons at one time in this country and that
this derived from the raccoon that black and tans are used to
hunt.

http://www.ferris.edu/news/jimcrow/coon/

The coon caricature is one of the most insulting of all
anti-Black caricatures. The name itself, an abbreviation
of raccoon, is dehumanizing. As with Sambo, the coon
was portrayed as a lazy, easily frightened, chronically
idle, inarticulate, buffoon. The coon differed from the
Sambo in subtle but important ways. Sambo was
depicted as a perpetual child, not capable of living as
an independent adult. The coon acted childish, but he
was an adult; albeit a good-for-little adult. Sambo was
portrayed as a loyal and contented servant. Indeed,
Sambo was offered as a defense for slavery and
egregation. How bad could these institutions have been,
asked the racialists, if Blacks were contented, even
happy, being servants? The coon, although he often
worked as a servant, was not happy with his status. He
was, simply, too lazy or too cynical to attempt to change
his lowly position. Also, by the 1900s, Sambo was
dentified with older, docile Blacks who accepted Jim
Crow laws and etiquette; whereas coons were
increasingly identified with young, urban Blacks who
disrespected Whites. Stated differently, the coon was
a Sambo gone bad.

The prototypical movie coon was Stepin Fetchit, the
slow-talking, slow-walking, self-demeaning nitwit. It took
his character almost a minute to say: "I'se be catchin' ma
feets nah, Boss." Donald Bogle, a cinema historian,
lambasted the coon, as played by Stepin Fetchit and
others:

Before its death, the coon developed into the most
blatantly degrading of all black stereotypes. The pure
coons emerged as no-account ******s, those unreliable,
crazy, lazy, subhuman creatures good for nothing more
than eating watermelons, stealing chickens, shooting
crap, or butchering the English language.

The coon caricature was born during American slavery.
Slave masters and overseers often described slaves as
"slow," "lazy," "wants pushing," "an eye servant," and
"trifling." The master and the slave operated with different
motives: the master desired to obtain from the slave the
greatest labor, by any means; the slave desired to do the
least labor while avoiding punishment. The slave
registered his protest against slavery by running away,
and, when that was not possible, by slowing work, doing
shoddy work, destroying work tools, and faking illness.
Slave masters attributed the slaves' poor work
performance to shiftlessness, stupidity, desire for
freedom, and genetic deficiencies.

More at the URL, including pictures.

Btw, the Brits had a songs using the word coon
and ****** back in the before 1930

http://www.bpmonline.org.uk/bpm4-evolving.html

5 The following table shows the number of incidences of the words
'coon' and '******' in titles of songs published in London in the
British Library Collection:

****** Coon
1880-1890 6 2
1891-1900 9 69
1901-1910 12 140
1911-1920 3 23
1921-1930 2 0


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits
  #23  
Old August 10th 03, 05:11 AM
Wendy Marsden
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is this racist?

toto wrote:

Perhaps, perhaps not. We cannot tell what was in the person's
mind, but the double entendre is there if one knows that black
people were called coons at one time in this country and that
this derived from the raccoon that black and tans are used to
hunt.


Thank you, yes, that is exactly what was on my mind. I will grant you,
though, that not everyone is as educated about the deplorable history you
related as you and I are. In fact, in may just live on as a bit of a
cutesy double entendre now. But I wince when I hear someone joking about
coon hunting.

I live in an area with a significant Hispanic immigrant population. They
are "tan". My guess is that they encounter more racism in my area than
blacks do.

75 years ago in my area two Italian immigrants named Sacco and Vanzetti
were persecuted and executed for a crime they quite obviously did not
commit because they were tan.

I heard someone mention that I was being overly politically correct. I
would counter that by saying that I'm overly educated in what impolitic
things people do when they aren't behaving themselves.

Wendy
  #24  
Old August 10th 03, 05:21 AM
Joni Rathbun
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is this racist?


On Sat, 9 Aug 2003, Wendy Marsden wrote:

Rosalie B. wrote:
I think you are seeing things that aren't there. Black and tans can
refer to a couple of different things and people aren't one of them
that springs to mind.


Okay, that's good. I really wondered. I live in New England (where coon
hunting isn't a known sport) and it's a world that's sort of a cross
between a Norman Rockwell town and The Cosby Show, where the blacks I know
tend to be wealthy professionals or community leaders. (In fact, Bill
Cosby lives about 10 miles away, and Norman Rockwell is from this area,
too.)

But my mind really is on the Civil Rights era. We're just about done with
the Civil War and the next unit I'm doing is what happened after the
slaves were freed. It's poisonous to think about.


I'm certain it's referring to black and tan coon hounds... as per:

"there's a silhouette which I finally figure out (at a stop light when I
can study it) is a dog barking up a tree trunk."

That's *the* commonly used icon for coon hunting.



  #25  
Old August 10th 03, 05:36 AM
Joni Rathbun
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is this racist?


On Sat, 9 Aug 2003, Bruce and Jeanne wrote:

Wendy Marsden wrote:

I'm driving behind a white GMC Jimmy SUV and it has exactly one bumper
sticker on it that says, "I hunt black and tans". I'm looking at this
with my mouth open thinking they MUST be talking about dogs, they
can't really be talking about lynching, can they? I look closer to see if
there's a tiny "with" in there. Nope, but there's a silhouette which I
finally figure out (at a stop light when I can study it) is a dog barking
up a tree trunk.


Isn't a "black and tan" a Guiness Stout with a Lager (or some pale ale)?
I would assume the bumper sticker refers to that, especially given the
singular "black".


The singular "black" would also be appropriate when referring to the dogs
commonly known as "Black and Tans." Black and Tan is a specific breed. To
refer to more than one B&T, you say "Black and Tans" not "Blacks and
Tans."

BTW, I found a copy of the bumper sticker online. Here it is:

http://www.huntsmart.com/index.cfm/f...l-1417/ss/1417

or

http://tinyurl.com/jjlt


Scroll down the page....



  #26  
Old August 10th 03, 06:13 AM
Clisby Williams
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is this racist?



Wendy Marsden wrote:

I'm driving behind a white GMC Jimmy SUV and it has exactly one bumper
sticker on it that says, "I hunt black and tans". I'm looking at this
with my mouth open thinking they MUST be talking about dogs, they
can't really be talking about lynching, can they? I look closer to see if
there's a tiny "with" in there. Nope, but there's a silhouette which I
finally figure out (at a stop light when I can study it) is a dog barking
up a tree trunk.

I told my husband how scandalized I was by the poor taste of this bumper
sticker. He said that he didn't take it that way and he couldn't imagine
that the people who put that bumper sticker up thought that way. I said
that the double entendre was the whole POINT of putting up that bumper
sticker. He said I was off my rocker and way too cynical.

Opinions? Am I just nuts to think anyone would be that horrid? I *do*
tend to be cynical (and that's a trait my husband deplores.) I'm also
putting together a study unit on the Restoration of the American South
through to the Civil Rights movement, so racism is on my mind.

Wendy, see red



I don't think you're nuts to think people could be that horrid - but I
have to say, if
I saw it, dogs are the only thing that would come to mind.

Clisby

  #27  
Old August 10th 03, 06:14 AM
newfy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is this racist?


"Wendy Marsden" wrote in message
...
I'm driving behind a white GMC Jimmy SUV and it has exactly one bumper
sticker on it that says, "I hunt black and tans". I'm looking at this
with my mouth open thinking they MUST be talking about dogs, they
can't really be talking about lynching, can they? I look closer to see if
there's a tiny "with" in there. Nope, but there's a silhouette which I
finally figure out (at a stop light when I can study it) is a dog barking
up a tree trunk.


Well, someone might have already pointed out that a "black and tan" is a
type of coonhound. The black and tan being for their coloring. I have a
redbone coonhound myself. The reason the silhouette was of a dog barking up
a tree is because they tree the racoon/bear/mountain lion, etc. I would be
willing to bet there was no ill intent, just a proud black and tan hunter.
--
JennP.
mom to matthew 10/11/00
EDD 4/4/04


  #28  
Old August 10th 03, 06:40 AM
Joni Rathbun
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is this racist?


On Sun, 10 Aug 2003, seyshell wrote:

On Sat, 09 Aug 2003 14:24:09 GMT, Wendy Marsden
wrote:

are americans this ... thin skinned (right word??) about colour?


Well, if do you mean race relations are that tenuous in general, I'd say
no. But I sure don't care for the thought of "hunting" people for their
colour. And it actually happened here occasionally within the past
100 years. I tend to have a longer memory than most people.

Wendy


no i mean about people getting so uptight about perceived insults with
regard to colour. normally, from i what i have seen its whites
getting upset, on the other persons behalf.


Yes, this does happen but I spend a whole lot of my time working
with people... of color. And a whole lot of them take insult at
anything and everything no matter how far fetched, especially if
it comes from a white person.

Indeed, one day a mother reported to our principal that I called her
a n*gger when, in fact, I hadn't called her anything and the only
words I spoke to her were, "Here you go. You can give this to me
or to the principal when you've finished filling it out!" Then
I opened the elevator for her and smiled.

So am I careful? You're damned right I'm careful. I was alone with
that woman and it was her word against mine. I was a brand new
employee at the time with no local history. That woman knew exactly
what she was doing. My saving grace: a principal with a brain
and an accuser who had a NEGATIVE history.



  #29  
Old August 10th 03, 07:11 AM
P. Tierney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is this racist?


"seyshell" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 09 Aug 2003 14:24:09 GMT, Wendy Marsden
wrote:

are americans this ... thin skinned (right word??) about colour?


Well, if do you mean race relations are that tenuous in general, I'd say
no. But I sure don't care for the thought of "hunting" people for their
colour. And it actually happened here occasionally within the past
100 years. I tend to have a longer memory than most people.


no i mean about people getting so uptight about perceived insults with
regard to colour.


This seems to presume that there is a clear line between what is a
"perceived insult" and what is an actual insult. That isn't the case, and
since certain words and phrases have been deemed socially unacceptable,
people are a lot more clever about cloaking their insults in less obvious
language. Using terms that are more "inside" and/or more regional is
one way to do that, perhaps as in this case, the specifics of hunting dogs
are not widely known in every part, or even many parts, of the States.

That said, I'd say that the odds are that this person did not have a
racial intent in mind when slapping the bumper sticker on the back of
his car. OTOH, I also think that, as another poster wrote, odds are
that more than a few racists who have driven behind the car in question
probably got a good chuckle out of it.

normally, from i what i have seen its whites
getting upset, on the other persons behalf.


And I've normally seen black people not taking kindly to such
things, especially those who have been around awhile. Some
have got a pretty good reason to be "uptight".




P. Tierney


  #30  
Old August 10th 03, 12:29 PM
just me
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is this racist?

"Joni Rathbun" wrote in message
...
The singular "black" would also be appropriate when referring to the dogs

commonly known as "Black and Tans." Black and Tan is a specific breed. To
refer to more than one B&T, you say "Black and Tans" not "Blacks and
Tans."

BTW, I found a copy of the bumper sticker online. Here it is:


http://www.huntsmart.com/index.cfm/f...l-1417/ss/1417



Yeah, now that I see one I think I've seen them before. Hunting bumper
stickers.

-Aula


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 8/4/03


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 ParentingBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.