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Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 4th 07, 11:24 PM posted to misc.kids
Barbara
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Posts: 271
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

On Dec 4, 5:10 pm, Beliavsky wrote:
On Dec 4, 4:38 pm, Banty wrote:

Do wring said relative's neck.


Yes, dissent from progressive orthodoxy must be silenced! Research on
problems with day care should be ignored!

Your daughter will do just fine.


Maybe, but we have no way of knowing that.


Just as we have no way of knowing that YOUR judgmentalism and
devotion to the cult of *intelligence* won't irreparably harm YOUR
kids.

Sadly, we have no idea of the effect of most actions that we take with
our kids. Give your kid candy? Obesity epidemic. Don't let your kid
have candy? I was just talking to someone who described hoarding and
hiding food, resulting in lifetime food issues, because she wasn't
allowed candy as a kid. We all just have to try to do the best that
we can given our own circumstances.

Penelope, with your mom leaving, you're definitely going to need some
help with the kids. A good daycare program, if one is available, can
be an excellent option for you. Given that you have another one at
home, though, there are other options, such as a full time in home
sitter wtih the older child attending a shorter program out of the
home a couple of times a week. Whatever you decide, do your research
and remember to go with your gut -- if it seems like there's a
problem, act immediately. While we can argue the incremental
differences, the simple fact is that most kids who are in a loving
environment -- at home with a parent, with a sitter or in a care
situation -- thrive. OTOH, kids who are not in a loving and
supportive place -- with parents (& I could tell you stories that
would make your hair curl about parents!) or with others tend not to
thrive to the same degree.

Barbara
  #12  
Old December 4th 07, 11:35 PM posted to misc.kids
Beliavsky
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Posts: 453
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

On Dec 4, 6:24 pm, Barbara wrote:

snip

Sadly, we have no idea of the effect of most actions that we take with
our kids. Give your kid candy? Obesity epidemic. Don't let your kid
have candy? I was just talking to someone who described hoarding and
hiding food, resulting in lifetime food issues, because she wasn't
allowed candy as a kid. We all just have to try to do the best that
we can given our own circumstances.

Penelope, with your mom leaving, you're definitely going to need some
help with the kids. A good daycare program, if one is available, can
be an excellent option for you. Given that you have another one at
home, though, there are other options, such as a full time in home
sitter wtih the older child attending a shorter program out of the
home a couple of times a week. Whatever you decide, do your research
and remember to go with your gut -- if it seems like there's a
problem, act immediately. While we can argue the incremental
differences, the simple fact is that most kids who are in a loving
environment -- at home with a parent, with a sitter or in a care
situation -- thrive. OTOH, kids who are not in a loving and
supportive place -- with parents (& I could tell you stories that
would make your hair curl about parents!) or with others tend not to
thrive to the same degree.


Yes, and Stephanie explained very well how daycare often does *not*
provide a loving and supportive place for children. Mothers know and
love their children more than anyone else, and their "turnover" is
pretty low, thank goodness.

I did not tell the OP what to do, but I did mention an article
summarizing some research on daycare, which is one thing she asked
for.
  #13  
Old December 5th 07, 01:30 AM posted to misc.kids
Akuvikate
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Posts: 143
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

On Dec 4, 12:24 pm, Lady Penelope Creighton-Ward
wrote:
I was all excited to get a spot at our neighbourhood daycare centre
for my 22-month old, who has been at home until now, but a naysayer
relative has made me wonder if I'm hurting my daughter more than doing
her good by putting her in daycare at this age, in winter, no less.

I know my daughter will benefit tremendously from being around other
children in a structured educational setting. She will be in a group
of 9 children, who are looked after by 2 teachers and one part-time
assistant.

I work full-time from home, and have a 9-month old here as well. He
will stay with me until he gets a spot at the daycare at 12 months.

The relative (whose neck I would love to wring right now) insists a
child should be kept at home until age 3.

I am doing this because I need to keep my job. Until now I had help
from my mother, but she leaves in a few days, after having been with
us for six months. Already a huge luxury!

What I'd love is to hear some positive stories, and if there's any
scientific backing to my relative's claims.


There is some scientific backing to the claim that longer hours in
daycare (esp 30 hours a week at pre-social ages) has positive
cognitive effects and negative behavioral effects. There is a lot of
scientific backing that the quality of care matters a great deal.
There is no scientific backing to say that you would harm your 22
month old by putting her in daycare unless it's poor-quality daycare
that you plan to use for extended hours 5 days a week.

As someone else pointed out, much as we'd always love to do the best
in every possible way by our children, sometimes "the best" in one
area conflicts with "the best" in another area. Sometimes "the best"
for one family member would present an undue burden on other members
of the family. If keeping your job is important to the well-being of
the family, then you do what's best for your children in the context
of keeping your job.

Anyone who tells you you're harming your child by doing something
fairly reasonable is*way* out of line. Children are not that fragile
and can thrive in many different environments as long as they have a
stable, loving home. I started a job that was 40-80 hours/week and
involved frequent overnights away from home when my daughter was 13
months old. It sucked, and it was far from an ideal situation. But I
have the utmost confidence that it was the best thing for her, as well
as for the rest of us, because now I can work part-time for the rest
of her life. If you're deeply conflicted about keeping your job, then
re-examine whether or not you need to. If you know you need to, then
choose what care for her you feel most comfortable with and know that
your nay-saying relative has no divine insight into the truth.

Kate, ignorant foot soldier of the medical cartel
and the Bug, 4 years old
and something brewing, 4/08
  #14  
Old December 5th 07, 02:27 AM posted to misc.kids
Ericka Kammerer
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Posts: 2,293
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

Stephanie wrote:

You need to keep you job. Been there, done that. But more than any other
service you ever pay for, buyer beware.


The big challenge is that few people know how to evaluate
quality daycare or preschool programs, so many just sort of freeze
and don't ask a lot of questions or don't spend some real time in
the center to see for themselves how things are going. While I
think that it is difficult to *create* a good classroom, it's one
of those things that if you only have to *evaluate* it, it's not
all that difficult. You may not know precisely what you'd need to
do to be a great childcare provider, but you'll know a good situation
when you see it if you spend some time there and drop in unannounced
on occasion. I'm not sure why people feel so inhibited about asking
to see classrooms in action, but that's ultimately what you need to
do. It's possible for the childcare providers to try to put on a
show for you, but the kids don't lie. You can see from their
behavior how things are going.

The other negative aspect of full time child care (you did not mention if it
would be full time) that I observed when I was in child care myself was that
many full time working parents spend so much time getting through the day,
get the day done... that they never got to know their children. Families who
spent so little time with their children that they could not solve things
like eating issues, sleep issues or whatever. They neither spent enough time
with their kids to really understand the issue nor did they ahve the will to
do what it took to deal. They needed to get so much done in the few hours
between pick up and bed... Now I don't mean to claim that this is pervasive.
Truth be told, if you are aware of the risk it is likely mitigated easily
enough.


Absolutely. I've seen working parents in that situation,
and other parents working similar hours who are very well connected
to their children. I think it has a lot more to do with what you
do when you're around. After all, if you couldn't get to know your
kids if you weren't around them 24/7, then the traditional father
who works outside the home would be completely out of luck!
If you tally up the hours, the amount of time a working
parent (with something near a 40 hour work week and a reasonable
commute) is available to a child (with a reasonable bedtime, etc.)
is about the same amount of time that the child is with either
the other parent or a childcare provider. It's shorter on the
weekdays, but longer on the weekends. There's no reason a working
parent can't be plenty available to their children and get to know
them and deal with all those issues that come up. It's just a
choice. Not every parent elects to put in the time or effort, but
by and large, that's not just because of a job!

Best of luck. It is a difficult thing to work out. But YOU have the only
skills, knowledge, loving care to decide what is right for your family. So
keep that confidence with you no matter what you decide.


And, frankly, as the saying goes, there's no use crying
over spilt milk. If you really do have to work, then you have
to work, and obsessing over this sort of thing is one of the
most toxic things you can do. Find quality care, tune in to
your children, and respond when/if your gut tells you something
isn't right. Children are tremendously resilient. As someone
who grew up in an extended family setting, I firmly believe that
this notion that only parents can give proper, loving care to
a child is completely bogus. From time immemorial children
have had close bonds with adults other than their parents.
There's no reason why a good childcare provider can't be one
of those people. The trick is finding that high quality care,
but you do the best you can and respond as things unfold.
On top of that, if the nosy relative thinks your
child shouldn't be in daycare, then said relative can haul
her butt over and start providing the care that you need.
She's family, after all. If she's so all-fired concerned about
it, then perhaps she should do something about it! If not, then
she can keep her guilt trips to herself ;-)

Best wishes,
Ericka
  #15  
Old December 5th 07, 02:50 AM posted to misc.kids
Ericka Kammerer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,293
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

Lady Penelope Creighton-Ward wrote:
I was all excited to get a spot at our neighbourhood daycare centre
for my 22-month old, who has been at home until now, but a naysayer
relative has made me wonder if I'm hurting my daughter more than doing
her good by putting her in daycare at this age, in winter, no less.


Asking whether daycare is harmful is a lot like asking
whether food is harmful. You don't know the answer without
knowing a lot more about the situation. There are obvious
negatives to things like poor quality daycare, too much daycare,
etc. There's not a whole lot of support for the idea that
reasonable amounts of high quality daycare is problematic.
There were two highly publicized studies that showed
some potential behavioral issues, but I think it's also important
to look carefully at those studies and not leap to conclusions
based on a couple of tidbits. Those were relatively complex
situations being looked at, and lots of things going on in
them. It's very simplistic to jump to the conclusion that
"daycare is harmful" based on those two studies. I think
they do give some things to look out for. If I had a shy
child, I'd probably look for care that was closer to 1-1
and a place that was very calm, rather than a big center
with lots of rambunctious kids. I'd look for ways to keep
the number of hours in daycare down. I'd look for high
quality. I'd look to balance my life in such a way as to
maximize quality interaction with my child while we were
together. You're probably already doing all those things.
You also have to keep the magnitude of the results
of those two studies in context (small overall) and the
fact that neither study was designed in such a way as to
prove causality. It's not so hard to imagine, for example,
that the few children who were predisposed for other reasons
to have more behavioral issues were more likely to be in
more hours of daycare to begin with!

Best wishes,
Ericka
  #16  
Old December 5th 07, 03:35 AM posted to misc.kids
Beliavsky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 453
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

On Dec 4, 6:24 pm, Barbara wrote:

Your daughter will do just fine.


Maybe, but we have no way of knowing that.


Just as we have no way of knowing that YOUR judgmentalism and
devotion to the cult of *intelligence* won't irreparably harm YOUR
kids.


That's a cheap shot. The intelligence researchers I have cited do not
lead a "cult", and what I have said on the subject is representative
of "Mainstream Science on Intelligence"
http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson...mainstream.pdf .
  #17  
Old December 5th 07, 03:38 AM posted to misc.kids
Barbara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 271
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

On Dec 4, 6:35 pm, Beliavsky wrote:
On Dec 4, 6:24 pm, Barbara wrote:

snip

Sadly, we have no idea of the effect of most actions that we take with
our kids. Give your kid candy? Obesity epidemic. Don't let your kid
have candy? I was just talking to someone who described hoarding and
hiding food, resulting in lifetime food issues, because she wasn't
allowed candy as a kid. We all just have to try to do the best that
we can given our own circumstances.


Penelope, with your mom leaving, you're definitely going to need some
help with the kids. A good daycare program, if one is available, can
be an excellent option for you. Given that you have another one at
home, though, there are other options, such as a full time in home
sitter wtih the older child attending a shorter program out of the
home a couple of times a week. Whatever you decide, do your research
and remember to go with your gut -- if it seems like there's a
problem, act immediately. While we can argue the incremental
differences, the simple fact is that most kids who are in a loving
environment -- at home with a parent, with a sitter or in a care
situation -- thrive. OTOH, kids who are not in a loving and
supportive place -- with parents (& I could tell you stories that
would make your hair curl about parents!) or with others tend not to
thrive to the same degree.


Yes, and Stephanie explained very well how daycare often does *not*
provide a loving and supportive place for children.


No, she listed a couple of terrible things that have happened at bad
daycares. She didn't mention the millions of children who are well
cared for in day care centers throughout the world.

Mothers know and
love their children more than anyone else, and their "turnover" is
pretty low, thank goodness.


Andrea Yates (a SAHM) murdered all 5 of her kids. Marybeth Tinning
(also a SAHM AFAIK) apparently killed NINE of her own kids. Susan
Smith (a WOHM) killed two. But these are just a few sensational
cases. Statistics show that more than 600 children are murdered by
their own mothers each year. Now, if we present *that* as the only
information, it would suggest that no child should be left alone with
his or her mother. But, hey. Let's add in the kids killed by dad.
What about the kids sexually abused by dad or by mom's boyfriend. I
used to represent abused kids. I represented a 12 year old whose
mother had repeatedly raped her and pimped her out to men. A 6 year
old who was raped by mom's boyfriend; her 12 year old sister, also
raped. Another 12 year old beaten to a pulp by his dad (but not
sexually assaulted). It's not a pretty picture. In my own life, I
regularly see kids whose parents take them to the park and set them
loose with no supervision from the time they can walk. I've had
people simply assume that I'm going to care for their kids when they
go out, without even checking that I'll be home. A family that gave
their 6 year old permission to go to a carnival with me without even
meeting me first, or checking that it was OK with me (it wasn't, by
the way; the kid and his family simply assumed he could tag along with
my kid).


I did not tell the OP what to do, but I did mention an article
summarizing some research on daycare, which is one thing she asked
for.- Hide quoted text -

You carefully selected an article that said what you wanted it to
say. You deliberately ignored articles that set forth the advantages
of daycare.

For better or for worse, Penelope needs this job. Unless you intend
to start supporting her family, you've done nothing to help her.
You've just thrown out a parade of unlikely horribles designed to make
her feel bad.

Barbara
  #18  
Old December 5th 07, 04:14 AM posted to misc.kids
Beliavsky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 453
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

On Dec 4, 10:38 pm, Barbara wrote:

You carefully selected an article that said what you wanted it to
say.


Yeah, the New York Times is part of my vast right wing conspiracy. It
looks like Ericka and Akuvikate may have joined, since I think they
were talking about the same studies as the article.

You deliberately ignored articles that set forth the advantages of daycare.

For better or for worse, Penelope needs this job. Unless you intend
to start supporting her family, you've done nothing to help her.
You've just thrown out a parade of unlikely horribles designed to make
her feel bad.


Stephanie first threw out the "parade of unlikely horribles", and I
don't think it was her intention to make the OP feel bad.

Barbara

  #19  
Old December 5th 07, 04:17 AM posted to misc.kids
Pologirl
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Posts: 342
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

Lady Penelope Creighton-Ward wrote:
What I'd love is to hear some positive stories, and if there's any
scientific backing to my relative's claims.


The scientific studies go both ways, reflecting the fact that relative
differences between home and daycare can go both ways, depending on
the quality of the home environment and of the daycare environment.
So what really matters is your own answer to this fundamental
question: can you obtain daycare of a quality equal to or exceeding
the quality of your child's own home environment?

When he was your oldest's current age, Monkey Boy was wild to go to
daycare where he could play and do all the other fun activities that a
good daycare provides. We visited some daycares, and he fit right in
and sobbed when it was time for us to leave.

If I needed to work full time I would feel quite comfortable putting
my kids in one of the better daycares available to me. Or, at least I
would feel comfortable trying it. Daycare and preschool are not a
concern, compared to the K and 1st grades looming on the horizon.
Monkey Boy, now 3.5, is well on his way to reading and writing and I
doubt he would do well in any schooling program that uses drills and
worksheets and the like.

Pologirl
2004 Monkey Boy
2006 Hungry Girl
  #20  
Old December 5th 07, 05:07 AM posted to misc.kids
cjra
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Posts: 1,015
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

On Dec 4, 2:24 pm, Lady Penelope Creighton-Ward
wrote:
I was all excited to get a spot at our neighbourhood daycare centre
for my 22-month old, who has been at home until now, but a naysayer
relative has made me wonder if I'm hurting my daughter more than doing
her good by putting her in daycare at this age, in winter, no less.

I know my daughter will benefit tremendously from being around other
children in a structured educational setting. She will be in a group
of 9 children, who are looked after by 2 teachers and one part-time
assistant.

I work full-time from home, and have a 9-month old here as well. He
will stay with me until he gets a spot at the daycare at 12 months.

The relative (whose neck I would love to wring right now) insists a
child should be kept at home until age 3.

I am doing this because I need to keep my job. Until now I had help
from my mother, but she leaves in a few days, after having been with
us for six months. Already a huge luxury!

What I'd love is to hear some positive stories, and if there's any
scientific backing to my relative's claims.


Probably the only thing I'd worry about is that at this age, she's
accustomed to being home with you and the change will be a bit
drastic, and may be hard to take at first. That's not necessarily
harmful, just may be a bit of a challenge at first.

All I can say is my DD loves daycare. Her face lights up when she sees
the provider (it's an in home) and she sees her 'friends' there. She
gets so excited. it's so cute to watch her play and interact with the
other kids. I think she's bored when it's just mommy at home ;-)
However, she's been in daycare since 12 weeks, so she got used to it
before she really noticed.



 




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