Danish Study on Fantasy Autism-Thimerosal Link

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/04/health/04VACC.html

From the article...

"In the study, published this week in the journal Pediatrics, a team of
Danish doctors counted all the diagnoses of autism in the country from 1971
to 2000. They found no decrease after 1992, when Denmark became the first
country in the world to ban the preservative, thimerosal.

Rather, autism diagnoses continued to skyrocket on the same trajectory that
began in the late 1980's, rising from less than one case per 10,000 Danish
youngsters in 1990 to more than three a decade later."

The article points out how the anti-mercury/vaccinationistas attempted to
discount the findings, and were shown to be wrong.

Oh well, the anti-vac liars will have to cook up some new whacko ideas.

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 21:19:44 GMT, "Mark Probert"
wrote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/04/health/04VACC.html

From the article...

"In the study, published this week in the journal Pediatrics, a team of
Danish doctors counted all the diagnoses of autism in the country from 1971
to 2000. They found no decrease after 1992, when Denmark became the first
country in the world to ban the preservative, thimerosal.

Rather, autism diagnoses continued to skyrocket on the same trajectory that
began in the late 1980's, rising from less than one case per 10,000 Danish
youngsters in 1990 to more than three a decade later."

The article points out how the anti-mercury/vaccinationistas attempted to
discount the findings, and were shown to be wrong.

Oh well, the anti-vac liars will have to cook up some new whacko ideas.

Or just keep modifying their theory to fit the data.

"Once almost all one's energies are expended on protecting one's core
theory from being falsified, it is no longer being approached as a
scientific theory but as an item of faith - to be defended come what
may."

PF

"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message
...
"Jeff" wrote:

I don't think most of the anti-vaccination people are liars. They believe
what they say.

Hardly a week goes by when I don't see an ant-vaccinator say something
which I know that they know is untrue. When the truth is pointed out
to them they just wait a few weeks before saying the lies again. I am,
of course, speaking of the leaders of the movement. The followers may
be deluded and believe what they say.

How do you know that they know? And don't think the followers in the
movement are delude, but, rather, misled.

Jeff


--
Peter Bowditch
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
The Green Light http://www.ratbags.com/greenlight
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

"Jeff" wrote:


"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message
.. .
"Jeff" wrote:

I don't think most of the anti-vaccination people are liars. They believe
what they say.

Hardly a week goes by when I don't see an ant-vaccinator say something
which I know that they know is untrue. When the truth is pointed out
to them they just wait a few weeks before saying the lies again. I am,
of course, speaking of the leaders of the movement. The followers may
be deluded and believe what they say.

How do you know that they know?

Because I see them cite things which they know to be untrue. At least
once a month I see the "MMR has mercury" lie. Just yesterday I saw the
"vaccines are made from aborted foetuses" lie. A month ago I was told
the "it is impossible to shake a baby and hurt it" lie. These lies all
came from people who know the truth. They have had the truth pointed
out to them and yet they still lie. They cite medical publications
which do not contain the words that they quote. They fabricate numbers
which can be proved to be incorrect, yet they continue to quote them
after the errors have been pointed out. They relate anecdotes of such
transparent falseness that they would make honest people blush.


And don't think the followers in the
movement are delude, but, rather, misled.

Deluded and misled are points on a continuum. I have no fight with the
followers, just as I have no fight with the victims of medical
quackery. People believe what authoritative gurus tell them because
they don't have the education or critical skills to see through the
deception.

--
Peter Bowditch
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
The Green Light http://www.ratbags.com/greenlight
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

"Jeff" wrote in message
...

"Mark Probert" wrote in message
et...
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/04/health/04VACC.html

From the article...

"In the study, published this week in the journal Pediatrics, a team of
Danish doctors counted all the diagnoses of autism in the country from
1971
to 2000. They found no decrease after 1992, when Denmark became the
first
country in the world to ban the preservative, thimerosal.

Rather, autism diagnoses continued to skyrocket on the same trajectory
that
began in the late 1980's, rising from less than one case per 10,000
Danish
youngsters in 1990 to more than three a decade later."

The article points out how the anti-mercury/vaccinationistas attempted
to
discount the findings, and were shown to be wrong.

Oh well, the anti-vac liars will have to cook up some new whacko ideas.

I don't think most of the anti-vaccination people are liars. They believe
what they say.

However, this articles demonstrates another line of evidence that vaccines
do not cause autism. The article certainly does not prove it. But this,
along with many scientific studies clearly demonstrates that neither
mercury
nor vaccines contribute the rise of autism and that mercury and vaccines
cause very few, at most.

Sadly, the people who so much want to prevent autism are wasting so many
resources on this hypothesis which has practically been totally disproved.
How sad that that these people don't put their energy to good use.

Agreed. A Newsweek article pointed out that a study whowed that Autism is
substantially more often found in boys. If boys and girls get equal amounts
of vaccines, then, there is another factor whic mitigates against the
vaccination claims.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/959486.asp

http://www.msnbc.com/news/958646.asp

"Jeff" wrote in message
...

"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message
...
"Jeff" wrote:

I don't think most of the anti-vaccination people are liars. They
believe
what they say.

Hardly a week goes by when I don't see an ant-vaccinator say something
which I know that they know is untrue. When the truth is pointed out
to them they just wait a few weeks before saying the lies again. I am,
of course, speaking of the leaders of the movement. The followers may
be deluded and believe what they say.

How do you know that they know?

They were shown that they are wrong and they keep repeating what they know
is not true. Thus, lies.

And don't think the followers in the
movement are delude, but, rather, misled.

Jeff


--
Peter Bowditch
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
The Green Light http://www.ratbags.com/greenlight
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message
...
"Jeff" wrote:


"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message
.. .
"Jeff" wrote:

I don't think most of the anti-vaccination people are liars. They
believe
what they say.

Hardly a week goes by when I don't see an ant-vaccinator say something
which I know that they know is untrue. When the truth is pointed out
to them they just wait a few weeks before saying the lies again. I am,
of course, speaking of the leaders of the movement. The followers may
be deluded and believe what they say.

How do you know that they know?

Because I see them cite things which they know to be untrue. At least
once a month I see the "MMR has mercury" lie. Just yesterday I saw the
"vaccines are made from aborted foetuses" lie. A month ago I was told
the "it is impossible to shake a baby and hurt it" lie. These lies all
came from people who know the truth. They have had the truth pointed
out to them and yet they still lie.

Having the truth pointed out to them is not the same thing as them know the
truth. It does show their ability to learn and assimilate new ideas and
their understanding of science and medicine.

They cite medical publications
which do not contain the words that they quote.

This is certainly a problem. This points to stupidity, not dishonesty.

They fabricate numbers
which can be proved to be incorrect, yet they continue to quote them
after the errors have been pointed out.

Because they do not see their errors.

They relate anecdotes of such
transparent falseness that they would make honest people blush.


And don't think the followers in the
movement are delude, but, rather, misled.

Deluded and misled are points on a continuum. I have no fight with the
followers, just as I have no fight with the victims of medical
quackery. People believe what authoritative gurus tell them because
they don't have the education or critical skills to see through the
deception.

There is an old saying that goes like this: "Never attribute to malice that
which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

The behaviors you are discussing I think are more likely stupidity (and not
really looking for truth and understanding) than malice or lying.

Howeve, in either case, I think we will both agree that their behaviors are
reprehensible, especially when kids are injured because their parents fail
to get them vaccinated because they beleive their lies.

Jeff

--
Peter Bowditch
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
The Green Light http://www.ratbags.com/greenlight
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

"Mark Probert" wrote in message
. net...

"Jeff" wrote in message
...

"Mark Probert" wrote in message
et...
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/04/health/04VACC.html

From the article...

"In the study, published this week in the journal Pediatrics, a team
of
Danish doctors counted all the diagnoses of autism in the country from
1971
to 2000. They found no decrease after 1992, when Denmark became the
first
country in the world to ban the preservative, thimerosal.

Rather, autism diagnoses continued to skyrocket on the same trajectory
that
began in the late 1980's, rising from less than one case per 10,000
Danish
youngsters in 1990 to more than three a decade later."

The article points out how the anti-mercury/vaccinationistas attempted
to
discount the findings, and were shown to be wrong.

Oh well, the anti-vac liars will have to cook up some new whacko
ideas.

I don't think most of the anti-vaccination people are liars. They
believe
what they say.

However, this articles demonstrates another line of evidence that
vaccines
do not cause autism. The article certainly does not prove it. But this,
along with many scientific studies clearly demonstrates that neither
mercury
nor vaccines contribute the rise of autism and that mercury and vaccines
cause very few, at most.

Sadly, the people who so much want to prevent autism are wasting so many
resources on this hypothesis which has practically been totally
disproved.
How sad that that these people don't put their energy to good use.

Agreed. A Newsweek article pointed out that a study whowed that Autism is
substantially more often found in boys. If boys and girls get equal
amounts
of vaccines, then, there is another factor whic mitigates against the
vaccination claims.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/959486.asp

http://www.msnbc.com/news/958646.asp

However, if mercury somehow makes one more susceptible to whatever causes
autism, you can still end up with more boys than girls affected.

Either way, the people who believe that autism is caused by vaccines have
yet to provide much evidence that autism is caused by vaccines. In addition,
there is very convincing evidence that autism is not caused by vaccines,
including developmental neuroscience, pathology and immunology.

Jeff

On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 00:49:55 GMT, Peter Bowditch
wrote:

Because I see them cite things which they know to be untrue.

Just because it's been pointed out to them as untrue doesn't mean they
accept it as untrue, unfortunately.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/04/health/04VACC.html
From the article...
"In the study, published this week in the journal Pediatrics, a team of
Danish doctors counted all the diagnoses of autism in the country from
1971
to 2000. They found no decrease after 1992, when Denmark became the first
country in the world to ban the preservative, thimerosal.

So is Denmark going to put thimerosal back in the vaccines? No.

Notice how Denmark is about 8 years ahead of the USA on this
issue. It is probably because vaccines are voluntary in Denmark.