wDnnSCPS

wrote:

....snip......

Yo Chet. Hey bro, thought you done died. Ain't heard from you for
months. Don't waste your time with limpdick aka stoneman, he's a
jerk.

Hey - hi to all, and again, miss your mails.

Hi there "joshink." Don't you think it a bit silly to try to put folks
"off the scent" by posting to yourself so often?

0:-

Uncle Chester wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
Kane's Komments

Well, you've been at it with thw wdnnscps for nearly six months and
how many
serious cases have you posted? 15? 25?

Earliest such post I can find is Dec 8, so no, it's not been six months
yet.

And no, there are considerably more in total than 15 or 25.

And I leave out a great many that I find because they are repetitious
and not severe enough... a demand I respond to from the twitters,
rather like you, on this ng that have argued for some years that
"severe" abuse makes up only about 10% or less(?) of all reported child
abuse.

I haven't the time to cut and paste everything the RRS feeds run at me
on this subject.

CPS took 100 or 200 thousand kids since you started wdnnscps. Maybe
you
could post more iffin ya tried? Maybe ya missed some?? 20 serious
cases out
of 150,000 ain't much.

Your authority for that figure of 100 to 200 thousand?

And why would you think I'd try to post all? No one has the
time....those data are handled by large numbers of people collection,
sorting, forwarding to USDHHS were you can see them just fine without
me listing each and every one.

What others call "severe" percentages I call self serving fantasy to
avoid the truth. What they call "not severe" I call lying out their
butt.

And so would the children suffering at the hands of their parents, if
they knew that other children aren't treated that way.

For every case of serious abuse, there's 1000 innocent families
destroyed.

Claims are not proof, just claims. That's why I post the actual
stories.

You are prepared to show a ration of 1 out of a thousand are guilty,
with 999 innocent? Please do. We could likely shut CPS down. I'd like
that, immensely ...because I know the truth. I've seen the truth, and
worked with the truth of the damaged children. Up close. Doing
rehabilitation.

That's CPS. Thanks for pointin out just how few serious cases CPS
really
deals with.

You think I list them all? No wonder you appear to be babbling
incoherently Dennis. Because you are. As always.

0:-

On 18 May 2005 17:05:32 -0700, wrote:


wrote:

...snip......

Yo Chet. Hey bro, thought you done died. Ain't heard from you for
months. Don't waste your time with limpdick aka stoneman, he's a
jerk.

Hey - hi to all, and again, miss your mails.

Hi there "joshink." Don't you think it a bit silly to try to put folks
"off the scent" by posting to yourself so often?

0:-

Off what scent? I don't smell nothing except yer socks.

"Jack Liddy" wrote in
message
news:1116461505.5ce9e56aa16e89796c99e0d34c64dcb5@t eranews...
On 18 May 2005 17:05:32 -0700,
wrote:


wrote:

...snip......

Yo Chet. Hey bro, thought you done died. Ain't
heard from you for
months. Don't waste your time with limpdick aka
stoneman, he's a
jerk.

Hey - hi to all, and again, miss your mails.

Hi there "joshink." Don't you think it a bit silly
to try to put folks
"off the scent" by posting to yourself so often?

0:-

Off what scent? I don't smell nothing except yer
socks.

Don't look now, but ... those are your own socks. And
butt.

On Tue, 17 May 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote:

Without research, you have nothing but an uninformed opinion. There was
a time when popular opinion held that the earth was flat. Research
demonstrated the fallacy of this belief. Yet there was a time when
certain individuals rejected the research and continued to believe the
earth was indeed, flat.

This is called an uninformed opinion.

LaVonne

Depending on the research and how well it was conducted. Late-night TV
commercials are filled with products where there are claiming they have
research proving such and such. Much like you claiming on this forum
that you have cited studies proving non-cp alternatives are better than
spanking under the same statistical scrutinies! ;-)

"Baumrind et al. (2002) cited several studies that have found
corporal punishment to be less associated with negative outcomes
than are other discipline techniques. Although this may be true,
just because other techniques are worse than corporal punishment
does not make corporal punishment any better. Until positive
effects are linked with corporal punishment, it should not be
routinely recommended as a method of controlling children. However,
it is important to note that their argument does point to the
need for similar research on all methods of parental discipline, not
just corporal punishment."

Was Gershoff lying when she said this?

Doan

"Pop" wrote in message
...

"Jack Liddy" wrote in message
news:1116461505.5ce9e56aa16e89796c99e0d34c64dcb5@t eranews...
On 18 May 2005 17:05:32 -0700, wrote:


wrote:

...snip......

Yo Chet. Hey bro, thought you done died. Ain't heard from you for
months. Don't waste your time with limpdick aka stoneman, he's a
jerk.

Hey - hi to all, and again, miss your mails.

Hi there "joshink." Don't you think it a bit silly to try to put folks
"off the scent" by posting to yourself so often?

0:-

Off what scent? I don't smell nothing except yer socks.

Don't look now, but ... those are your own socks. And butt.



Are not!

Kane's Komments

Kane:

It's not an isolated phenomena....child abuse. We aren't "special."
Fools and brutes everywhere on the planet stop or slow the progress of
civilizing ourselves.

This particular article is unique in that it shows for the very first
time the scope of the problem in this country, China.

Look at the estimates, 50% of the thousands interveiwed reported abuse
as a child. And once again, we are told...by yet MORE
researchers...that they see a connection between childhood corporal
punishment and adult life problems.

It's not like it take rocket science to make such an obvious
connection, but some few folks in alt.parenting.spanking seem to be
trapped in their old Cargo Cult Mentality....if it LOOKS like the child
learned something....because the
"appearance" of compliance makes one think that, then surely "spanking
works."


CHINESE child abuse 'widespread'
BBC News - UK
.... exist, our correspondent says. Many within China may also be
shocked
by the consequences of child abuse. Physical punishment is ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4559105.stm


Kane:

This one is a beute.....and demonstrates how parents, if I may use such
a term for these kind of people, can and do view their own children as
possessions to be used for their own purposes, instead of soveriegn
human beings.

"FORT PIERCE - A Stuart man who prosecutors say instructed his
6-year-old son to "get a knife and kill your mother" was sentenced
Wednesday to the maximum penalty possible - 10 years in prison -
after a jury last month convicted him of child abuse and solicitation
to commit aggravated battery." ...from the story below.

MAN gets 10 years for child abuse
Palm Beach Post - Palm Beach,FL,USA
.... was sentenced Wednesday to the maximum penalty possible -- 10 years
in prison -- after a jury last month convicted him of child abuse and
solicitation to ...
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2005/05/19/m1b_slmunao_0519.html


Kane:

And again, as with the China article above, it's revealed that the
scope and severities of child abuse are far greater than the public is
generally aware, and some of you will admit.

The minimizing of this issue by YOU, and by others, is the lowest of
moral violations. You should be, but are not, ashamed of yourselves.
While trying to reform one agency, you would cause children to be
tortured and killed. Shame on you.

SURVEY reveals child abuse and neglect
grampian tv - Aberdeen,Scotland,UK
Child protection campaigners say a survey has revealed in horrific
detail,
the abuse and neglect being suffered by young people whose parents have
serious ...
http://northtonight.grampiantv.co.uk/content/default.asp?page=s1_1_1&newsid=6637


Kane:

Gosh, can't parents discipline these little monsters any more with CPS
violating their parental rights? 0;-

VERO Beach couple face child abuse charges after school nurse ...
Vero Beach Press-Journal (subscription) - Vero Beach,FL,USA
VERO BEACH -- Sheriff's Office deputies arrested a father and his
girlfriend
on Tuesday on charges of child abuse after a 6-year-old boy complained
to a ...
http://www.tcpalm.com/tcp/local_news/article/0,2545,TCP_16736_3789012,00.html

FOLLOW UP ON PRIOR STORY.....

wrote:
Kane's Komments

RELATED:

From WCPO.COM, May 14, 2005:

...Arnold Dillard, of Walnut Hills, says he lived next door to
Malone before the councilman moved a few months ago to 852 Lincoln
Avenue.

He says the arrest doesn't surprise him.

"This window right here in the middle -- you could actually hear
screaming from there, and telling him, 'Stop Dad, stop'," said
Dillard...

And you might be interested in the video proported to show the injuries
to the teen he "disciplined."

http://nospank.net/malone2.htm

The Question I posed in this ng last year, and has never been
adequately answered, is once again shown to be unanswered, logically.

How do we NOT cross the line in using CP, so that it becomes abuse of
this kind?

Don't wait for a rocket scientist. Even a child can answer that one. If
they are truthful and logical.

And waiting until abuse happens, THEN charging someone for the abuse is
NOT the answer to The Question....how can we keep it from going that
far, IS.

Councilmember Arrested For Allegedly Beating Son
Malone Says He Was Disciplining Teen For Incident At School

POSTED: 6:59 am EDT May 15, 2005
UPDATED: 9:38 am EDT May 16, 2005

CINCINNATI -- Cincinnati City Councilmember Sam Malone said he was
disciplining his son, but police called it domestic violence and
arrested him for allegedly beating the 14-year-old, News 5 reported.

Police said Malone hit the boy with a belt, and the boy suffered
welts
to his back, arms and chest.

Video: Malone Talks Exclusively To News 5

The boy was treated at Children's Hospital and released. The boy is
staying with an uncle.

Malone pleaded not guilty and was released on his own recognizance.
He'll be back in court later this month.

Malone said he was disciplining his son for an incident at school.

"Under the advice of my attorney, I cannot discuss the specific facts
of the offense at this time, but as a responsible parent I am aware
that proper discipline is an important and necessary component of
good
parenting," Malone said in a statement...........

[[[ Let's here if for family court and NOT make criminals with
records
out of parents that are misled or need some parenting
information....or
was this, Doug, a "crime," as you claim all "child abuse" is, and not
treatable? ]]]

The rest is at:

http://www.channelcincinnati.com/new...02/detail.html

"Uncle Chester" wrote in message
news:1116522799.2e9e2215c3ec688d31c48674ed0a2b4a@t eranews...

"Pop" wrote in message
...

"Jack Liddy" wrote in
message
news:1116461505.5ce9e56aa16e89796c99e0d34c64dcb5@t eranews...
On 18 May 2005 17:05:32 -0700,
wrote:


wrote:

...snip......

Yo Chet. Hey bro, thought you done died. Ain't
heard from you for
months. Don't waste your time with limpdick aka
stoneman, he's a
jerk.

Hey - hi to all, and again, miss your mails.

Hi there "joshink." Don't you think it a bit silly
to try to put folks
"off the scent" by posting to yourself so often?

0:-

Off what scent? I don't smell nothing except yer
socks.

Don't look now, but ... those are your own socks.
And butt.



Are not!


Spoken like a true adolescent sans
education/scruples/morality/nose

Kane's Komments


Kane:

This contribution is especially for our child sexual abuse apologists.
You know who you are. 0:-]


Boys Are Also Targets For Sexual Abuse, With Serious Sequelae


By Katrina Woznicki, MedPage Today Staff Writer
Reviewed by Rubeen K. Israni, M.D., Fellow, Renal-Electrolyte and
Hypertension Division, University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine
May 19, 2005

MedPage Today Action Points

* The study suggests physicians should have increased awareness
about sexual abuse in boys as they are abused almost as often as girls.

* Physicians should be aware that men who were sexually abused as
children can be at a greater risk for drug abuse, alcoholism, suicide,
and troubled relationships, just like their female counterparts.

Review
ATLANTA, May 19-Boys as well as girls are vulnerable to sexual abuse,
with similar long-term health consequences.

According to a study in the June issue of American Journal of
Preventive Medicine, the boys' abusers were more often female, with
males reporting past abuse by females nearly 40% of the time. Females
reported being abused by females only 6% of the time.

That men are often the ones perpetrating male abuse is an incorrect
assumption, wrote Shanta Dube, M.P.H., of the Centers for Disease
Control and Prevention. Whether the female perpetrators were young
girls themselves or adult women was not studied.

Problems in adulthood occurred in both sexes according to the
researchers. As adults, previously abused males and females encountered
similar problems at similar rates.

[[[ bobber, you better not read any further. Your head might explode
from the build up of resistance to the truth. The number, the
demographics, the outcomes, the perps, the victims ages...it's
terrifying to someone such as you. Beware. ]]]

.........full story at:

http://www.medpagetoday.com/tbindex....064&topicid=86


Kane:

Given the number of fantasies some of you have about what will and
won't work, and the relative expense and the methods that do and don't
work, I thought you'd enjoy this one.

Child Abuse and Neglect Unallayed by Home-Based Intervention


By Peggy Peck, Senior Editor, MedPage Today
Reviewed by Robert Jasmer, MD; Assistant Professor of Medicine,
University of California, San Francisco
May 05, 2005

MedPage Today Action Points

* This study reports that an intensive public health intervention
did not prevent recurrent child abuse in families with a confirmed
history of abuse. Physicians are required to report expected instances
of abuse and neglect. If indicated, discuss child protection
regulations with staff and patients.

Review
HAMILTON, Ont., May 5-Two years of home visits by public health nurses
did not prevent recurrences of child abuse, according to researchers
here. Sometimes the incidents of abuse and physical violence increased
despite the nurse interventions.

In the study, which is being published online by The Lancet, there was
no significant difference in recurrent abuse or neglect rates between
families randomized to the home visit or to families that were not. The
latter families had standard child protection services alone.

But hospital records confirmed 21 cases of injuries due to abuse or
neglect in the intervention group versus eight cases in the control
group.

Harriet MacMillan M.D. M.Sc., the lead author, said, however, that a
subgroup analysis suggests that the home visit intervention may reduce
abuse -- but not neglect -- if families are approached soon after the
initial report to child protective services of child abuse.

But overall, she said, the best approach "is primary prevention. We
need to try to prevent abuse before it ever happens" since her study
demonstrates that abuse and neglect can quickly become habitual.

[[[[ Kane: and as we know, such programs, because they must be
voluntary, require massive marketing -- very expensive -- that is not
really highly productive, or likely to be, and people are unaware their
parenting actions are abusive or neglectful. The return on the dollar
invested would likely be very poor. ]]]]


"The results of this study indicate that there is a high risk of
recurrence when children remain in the home, and up to now there is no
proven intervention to reduce that risk," she wrote.

Given the negative results of the study, Dr. MacMillan said that
removing children from abusive environments should be an option when
evaluating these cases.

[[[[ Hell, US CPS workers with any experience have known this for
years, as have the schools of social work Family and Child Studies
programs. It's much of the reason for the CAPTA bill and ASFA as well.
Without the stick, kiss the kiddies goodbye. Funny thing is, contrary
to lies told in this newgroup for years now, many families, after
succumbing to the stick, catch on and are then attracted to the rewards
of good parenting. ]]]]

In a Lancet commentary, Jane Barlow, D.Phil., of Warwick Medical School
of the University of Warwick in Coventry, England, wrote that the study
results "make for depressing reading. More than 50% of abused children
remaining in the home continued to be abused, and there is little
evidence currently available about how to prevent this abuse from
happening without removing the child from the home."

[[[ Any questions now about why the entire sibling group is removed by
CPS when one child is abused, and why the court and CPS push so
strongly for either removal or major commitment to OUT OF HOME
PROGRAMS? Training? Anger management? Psychological counseling and or
therapies? Drug rehabs? ]]]

....much more at:

http://www.medpagetoday.com/tbindex.cfm?tbid=992