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How do you decide?



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 24th 03, 02:51 AM
multimom4
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Default How do you decide?

I've gone into it in great detail previously but ... basically Connor
compares himself unfavorably against the others (esp. Hanna for whom
*everything* is easy -- rather Midas-like, whereas the boys have to work at,
say, handwriting). So he compares and then *totally* gives up. So he needs
to get away from her.

Plus they hang together waaaay too much in class and recess and basically
don't have *any* friends other than the other multiples we hang with. Plus
every teacher they've had has said I should separate them ... for varying
reasons -- distracting each other (both innocently and deliberately),
competing, acting as a unit, shutting other kids out, .............. so for
me a very clear and easy choice.

e.g. this week their swim classes ended with chasing games in the pool.
EHC chased no-one but each other. sigh

--Janet
Elliot, Hanna, Connor (10/21/96)
and Holly (4/4/01)

"Andrea" wrote in message
...
This is the first year that I have had the option of putting my girls in a
different class, since their preschool has three 3 year-old classes. The
director called me to ask if I want them in the same class and I told her

I do.
At the end of last school year I asked Jordan & Madison's teachers how

they did
in the same class....did they play with other children or stick together,

etc.?
The teachers said they did very well in the same class and that they were
surprised that one of them was not more dominant than the other. They said

that
with all the other twins they have had one twin was always more dominant

than
the other. They both have different interests (Madison's favorite thing at
school is art and Jordan's is music) and when I dropped them off last year

they
almost always went into 2 different directions. Jordan has been clinging

to me
a lot lately too and I think it will help her to know that Madison in the

room
with her.

So I'm pretty confident I made the right decision, but then I started

thinking
about other factors that should be considered when they get older. I am

going
to make the decision on a year by year basis, but I would like to hear how
those of you with twins in school have made your decisions over the years.

TIA,
Andrea
twin girls-Jordan & Madison
3 yrs. old



  #12  
Old August 24th 03, 01:18 PM
Shirley M...have a goodaa \\;-\)
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Default How do you decide?

It also depends upon the twin set. As Janet says hers are always at each
other even in class. Kathleen and Chris last year came home to tell us
about their day in class. The teacher had asked each child to clean their
desks. Kathleen (the teachers dream kid), said she didn't have to as her
desk was already neat, when I asked about Chris's desk (who sits in the
front of class because of eye site), she said "how should I know". I was
actually really glad to get the answer as it means that neither pay much
attention to the other one in class. On the playground I know that they
don't play together - Chris plays basketball with the older boys and
Kathleen hangs with her "gal pals." The only time I have ever heard
something about the playground was when Chris got threatened by a 4th grader
for accidentally pushing him while running. I imagine they keep eyes on
each other but don't play around. Again, it totally depends upon the kids.
As far as competition, our competition stays mainly in the house, except
that Kathleen was put on the A honor roll last year and Chris missed even
the A/B by one B (a really stupid system if you ask me for second graders).
He was mad because the A honor roll kids got to have breakfast with the
principal." It would have been an issue had he been in another class or
not.

Shirley
Chris and Kathleen 1/95

"H Schinske" wrote in message
...
wrote:

I don't get it. Why does this bother you? My twins are completely
different people too, which is why they have differences in the first
place. It doesn't bother me to talk about those differences.


I think it's *needless* comparisons we're talking about. There is a

difference
between noting that there are differences, and framing every comment about
either twin IN TERMS OF their difference from the other. For instance,

there is
no particular reason people can't say of one twin, "Gee, she's pretty

tall,
isn't she?" without any reference to whether she is taller or shorter than

her
sister.

I would not like it if everything people said about me was phrased solely

in
terms of how I differ from my husband, and vice versa. (I say my husband,

and
not one of my siblings, because I think twin relationships are often quite

a
bit like spousal ones in some ways.)

--Helen



  #13  
Old August 26th 03, 12:08 AM
David desJardins
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Default How do you decide?

Helen writes:
I think it's *needless* comparisons we're talking about. There is a
difference between noting that there are differences, and framing
every comment about either twin IN TERMS OF their difference from the
other. For instance, there is no particular reason people can't say of
one twin, "Gee, she's pretty tall, isn't she?" without any reference
to whether she is taller or shorter than her sister.


Hmm. Adjectives like "tall" are always in comparison to something.
She's not tall compared to a building, but she's certainly tall compared
to a mushroom. What you really mean when you say she is "tall" is that
she is tall relative to other people of the same age, and gender, and
race, and socioeconomic status (all factors that tend to affect height).

If you're already comparing a child to other children of the same age,
and the child has a twin, it seems awfully normal to me to use the twin
as an obvious basis of comparison, because they are the same age, after
all. On lots of "developmental milestones", I really have no idea
whether my son is more or less advanced relative to other children of
the same age, because I don't see enough other children, nor do I know
their exact ages, so I can't draw any conclusions. But it's often
obvious when he's better at some things, and not so good at other
things, as his sister. It doesn't bother me to talk about that.

I guess, if my children were in a class with lots of other children of
very similar ages, it would seem more normal to compare them
individually with the class overall. But it still wouldn't *bother* me
when people point out comparisons between them (especially when they are
really obvious anyway, like that one reads better, or is taller, or
whatever). Maybe this is just something I'm not going to understand.

David desJardins
  #14  
Old August 26th 03, 12:43 AM
H Schinske
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Default How do you decide?

wrote:

But it still wouldn't *bother* me
when people point out comparisons between them (especially when they are
really obvious anyway, like that one reads better, or is taller, or
whatever). Maybe this is just something I'm not going to understand.


It's the leaping to conclusions that one of them is going to be PERMANENTLY
better at whatever it is that is really aggravating ("She's pretty good at
math, isn't she? Is she better than X?"), and the ranking of things that are
not significantly different and really oughtn't to be described in terms of
comparison. People tend to polarize my kids because their coloring is very
different, and think they must be total opposites when they are no such thing.

And really, most people aren't described in terms of "better" or "worse" in
every aspect of their lives. People who talk about me and my husband say things
like "Bob is a marvelous cook," or "Helen has such an interesting book
collection." They don't very often say "Bob cooks so much better than Helen,"
or "Helen takes so much more interest in books than Bob does." That would make
me sound like a lousy cook (which I'm not) and Bob sound next door to
illiterate (far from it, his current pile of reading ranges from Melville to
Langston Hughes).

I suspect the reason you don't understand it is that you don't understand why
people would make comparisons that are not meaningful. It's not the meaningful
ones that I object to.

I do go out of my way to phrase explanations to people in terms of process and
degree of certainty. "Yes, Sophia tends to run about an inch taller than Emily.
Once in while Emily has a growth spurt and they're about the same for a while,
but the difference has been consistent enough that I think Sophia will be an
inch or two the taller when they get to be adults. I'm sure they'll both be
taller than I am, they're built more like their dad."

--Helen
  #15  
Old August 26th 03, 05:08 PM
H Schinske
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Default How do you decide?

("She's pretty good at math, isn't she? Is she better than X?"), and
the ranking of things that are not significantly different and really
oughtn't to be described in terms of comparison.


But why do you say "ought not"? What difference does it make? You've
said it's unnecessary, but you haven't said why it would be bad, or
harmful, or undesirable.


You think it could possibly be *good* for kids to hear "You're prettier than
your sister," "You're smarter than your sister," "You're nicer than your
sister," "You're more musical than your sister," "You're more athletic than
your sister," "You work harder than your sister," "You're more polite than your
sister," yada yada yada?
You *really* don't see how it's better to hear things like "You look very
pretty," "What a nice thing to say," "You sang very well," "You really improved
your time on the mile," "You worked very hard on this," "What nice manners you
have!"?

--Helen
  #16  
Old August 26th 03, 06:51 PM
Kender
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Default How do you decide?

My girls did well together in Kindergarten. One of the main reasons we
separated them for 1st grade is a strange one. I am tired of shared
playdates and invitations! The kids in their class felt if they invited one
over for a playdate then they had to invite the other one as well. The
competition and stress of two girls sharing one friend was huge. This year
with them being in separate 1st grade classes I am hoping this trend will
die out. I think having their own friends and space outside of school will
be a big benefit.
--
Erin
Morgan and Megan 2/15/97
Evan 5/14/00

"Andrea" wrote in message
...
This is the first year that I have had the option of putting my girls in a
different class, since their preschool has three 3 year-old classes. The
director called me to ask if I want them in the same class and I told her

I do.
At the end of last school year I asked Jordan & Madison's teachers how

they did
in the same class....did they play with other children or stick together,

etc.?
The teachers said they did very well in the same class and that they were
surprised that one of them was not more dominant than the other. They said

that
with all the other twins they have had one twin was always more dominant

than
the other. They both have different interests (Madison's favorite thing at
school is art and Jordan's is music) and when I dropped them off last year

they
almost always went into 2 different directions. Jordan has been clinging

to me
a lot lately too and I think it will help her to know that Madison in the

room
with her.

So I'm pretty confident I made the right decision, but then I started

thinking
about other factors that should be considered when they get older. I am

going
to make the decision on a year by year basis, but I would like to hear how
those of you with twins in school have made your decisions over the years.

TIA,
Andrea
twin girls-Jordan & Madison
3 yrs. old



  #17  
Old August 26th 03, 07:45 PM
David desJardins
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Default How do you decide?

Helen writes:
You think it could possibly be *good* for kids to hear "You're
prettier than your sister," "You're smarter than your sister," "You're
nicer than your sister," "You're more musical than your sister,"
"You're more athletic than your sister," "You work harder than your
sister," "You're more polite than your sister," yada yada yada?


Hey, none of these are like the previous examples. Before, your example
of a "needless comparison" was "She's taller than her sister." I don't
see how *that* is anything more than a simple statement of fact. She
can obviously already see that she's taller than her sister. How can it
do any harm to say it?

Similarly, when I say "Sarah's pronunciation is clearer than Louis's,"
or, "Sarah likes using the potty but Louis doesn't," or, "Louis likes to
type on the keyboard, but Sarah doesn't," these are just simple
statements of fact.

But saying, "She's prettier than her sister," is a completely different
sort of thing. So are "smarter", "nicer", "more musical", etc. Those
are value judgments, and totally subjective anyway. What you're really
saying is, "I like your appearance better than your sister's
appearance." And sure, I agree that *that* (in fact, the whole idea of
even deciding whose appearance you like better, much less talking about
it) is not the sort of way I would expect a parent to behave.

David desJardins
  #19  
Old August 26th 03, 11:38 PM
David desJardins
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Default How do you decide?

Helen writes:
I apologize if my strong feelings have gotten in the way of my
expressing myself more clearly, particularly if they've sounded
ill-tempered (I was ill-tempered, but not really at you).


Not at all. Particularly with people with older multiples, it's really
helpful to hear about issues people have that I might run into in the
future.

David desJardins
  #20  
Old August 27th 03, 02:07 AM
Shirley M...have a goodaa \\;-\)
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Default How do you decide?

Something that I have found is that they need to know they have strong
points in different things. Whether they are in the same class or not
believe me, they know. They hear each other read, do math or just
question/answer things. It is sooo important to stress that even though
they are twins, they are very different and have different talents. One may
be better at math or reading, but the other might be better at drawing. My
DS is a fantastic artist, it shows in everything that he does, he has a
perceptive eye that can distinguish symmetry, lines, distance, etc. His
sister doesn't have any of those skills and does talk about how Chris is
better at drawing. Chris's art teacher is the same one Kathleen has and he
works with all kids, but has said many times how talented Chris is, of
course he doesn't say that Kathleen isn't but it's there just by the grades
he gets. She is a wonderful Irish Dancer, passionate, dedicated and very
artistic in her presentation. Something that even Chris says he of course
could never achieve. I try to stress over and over, just as everyone has a
burden to carry in life (loss of parents, disease or other things - in our
house Chris has seizures and medicine and tests that he has to live with),
each one of us also has a talent that grows and needs to be fed. They will
be compared all of their lives, maybe not directly but they compare each
other - especially as they get older, and you would be lying if you told
both they were equal in everything. It's more truthful to let them know how
they are talented and what they seem to excel in. BTW, Kathleen is a
straight A student (Chris A/B). She retains some things quicker and school
work comes easier to her than him. They see that too, one seems to have to
study more than the other. Chris write better, I could go on and on. But
it will start to grow and I think especially with multiples you have to be
prepared to be honest but supportive.

Shirley
Chris and Kathleen 1/95

"David desJardins" wrote in message
...
Helen writes:
I apologize if my strong feelings have gotten in the way of my
expressing myself more clearly, particularly if they've sounded
ill-tempered (I was ill-tempered, but not really at you).


Not at all. Particularly with people with older multiples, it's really
helpful to hear about issues people have that I might run into in the
future.

David desJardins



 




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