teenager breaking curfew

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:25:22 -0400, Rosalie B.
wrote:

Although he did take his friends' sister to
her senior prom. They both wore tuxedos.

LOL Was he dating my daughter?


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

toto wrote:

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:25:22 -0400, Rosalie B.
wrote:

Although he did take his friends' sister to
her senior prom. They both wore tuxedos.

LOL Was he dating my daughter?

Did she do that too - when was that - he graduated HS in 1989, so this
would have been 1990 or so.

They both wore the black suit white shirt, black tie and red
cummerbunds. Both of them were blond.

His friend (the one with the sister) was ds's best man at the wedding,
and later was the godfather for ds's little boy that died.

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:28:44 GMT, toto wrote:

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:25:17 GMT, Nan wrote:

I don't get the whole "at 18 they shouldn't have a curfew" thought
process as a generalization.

I think curfew depends on the situation. An 18 or 19 year old who is
still in high school might need one at least on school nights, but I
also think that a senior in high school ought to be mature enough to
realize his or her own sleep needs.

Realizing their own sleep needs is fine. I'm not talking about
setting a bedtime... I'm talking about when I think they should be
home and not out running around late.

Nan

In article ,
cjra says...

On Mar 10, 12:32 pm, Beliavsky wrote:
On Mar 10, 10:39 am, Banty wrote:

snip

what if she has a job? how do you ground her?

I did not say I would. If the curfew is 12 midnight and she comes at
3am, that does not mean she can't work at a 9am to 5pm job, but she
would be expected to come home directly after work during the
"grounding" period.

And if she doesn't? *Then* what.

She can live somewhere else. As I wrote in reply to deja.blues, "if
the rules chafe, the 18yo can think of it as incentive to become
financially independent and move out."

Oh lord, I think I am agreeing with Beliavsky.

The concept of a curfew is foreign to me (we never had one as teens),
but once I finished HS and was free to move out, I knew that I still
had to play by house rules if I decided to stay. I was 17 when I moved
away for college so the age issue is a moot point. Even if I was 25
and had moved back after college I would have been expected to abide
by house rules, although I would have expected some sort of discussion
about them. My older siblings lived at home into their 20s and had to
abide by them. Not that I'm sure what the 'punishment' would have been
other than some annoying arguments...if it's the choice of the adult
to stay living at home, it seems reasonable they'd abide by house
rules, otherwise move out. I guess the 'punishment' would be the young
adult has to move out.

Oh I'm all for house rules. Any group of people sharing a household need to
have some agreements, depending on the needs of the members, resources, etc.

The *question* is - which are the reasonable, workable house rules.


The rules weren't unreasonable for the most part, mostly it meant
respecting each other - letting parents know when to expect them so
they didn't worry.

There you go.

You can breathe easy - I don't think you really agree with Beliavsky ;-)

Banty

In article , Nan says...

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:28:44 GMT, toto wrote:

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:25:17 GMT, Nan wrote:

I don't get the whole "at 18 they shouldn't have a curfew" thought
process as a generalization.

I think curfew depends on the situation. An 18 or 19 year old who is
still in high school might need one at least on school nights, but I
also think that a senior in high school ought to be mature enough to
realize his or her own sleep needs.

Realizing their own sleep needs is fine. I'm not talking about
setting a bedtime... I'm talking about when I think they should be
home and not out running around late.



Right - teenaged curfews, at least when we're talking about an 18 year old,
isn't about sleeping hours. It's about their social life.

I see a real contradiction in this stance that a curfew is needed (because the
teen isn't ready to be trusted to be out late) and the statement that if they
don't like it they can leave and live independantly (meaning, they're to be
trusted with *everything*). Hellooo??

Look, we all know some *adults* who never get to the point to manage themselves
or their social lives well. Sure, there are some 18 year olds who can't handle
themsevles, but in most cases even these (maybe *especially* these) can't be
handled by their parents anymore, either.

Independance isn't a step function, from kid with the parents looming over them
making sure they do right ever hour of the day, to total independance. It's a
gradual trusting and testing and allowing for mistakes that should have started
much earlier into childhood, and if enough of that hasn't happened by time a
person is 18 years old to set a few simple rules of mutual respect then allow
them to handle their own comings and goings, there's something much deeper going
on. And then it's much too late - an 18 year old will either be of a nature
that isnt' chafing under restrictive house rules and probably doesn need them
(very studious, for example) or they're going to defy them with little recourse
for their parents about it. Just as anyone reading this wouldn't put up with
their neighbors telling them when to turn the lights off.

Way back when I was researching the possibility of holding my son back in second
grade, I found that one of the severe problems of red-shirting was indeed that
it led to young restless adults at 18 and 19 being expected to sit still for
environments and rules set up for adolescents years younger than they.

Sure, there may be individual cases of an 18 year old that really needs some
reins on him or her just to finish school who would actually brook the rules.
(But then, for such an immature person, what's with this 'buck up or leave the
home'??) I dont' think it's something to be presented as the norm.

Banty

On Mar 11, 7:51 am, Banty wrote:
In article ,
cjra says...


The rules weren't unreasonable for the most part, mostly it meant
respecting each other - letting parents know when to expect them so
they didn't worry.

There you go.

You can breathe easy - I don't think you really agree with Beliavsky ;-)

Phew! That's a relief.

Although I do agree with the 'my way or the highway" view in terms of
the adult children moving out if the rules are not palatable to them.
I think parents need to be open for discussion, but ultimately if it's
their house, it's up to them to make the final decision.

Note that I moved out when I was 17, quite happily with no ill
feelings. I just knew I preferred to live independently and would not
have been comfortable with their rules, whereas at least 3 of my
siblings lived there well into their 20s. Though I disagreed with
them, I don't think they were unreasonable as they reflected their
beliefs.

Banty wrote:

...

Right - teenaged curfews, at least when we're talking about an 18 year old,
isn't about sleeping hours. It's about their social life.

I see a real contradiction in this stance that a curfew is needed (because the
teen isn't ready to be trusted to be out late) and the statement that if they
don't like it they can leave and live independantly (meaning, they're to be
trusted with *everything*). Hellooo??

You're don't know why the parents *think* a curfew is needed. And often
kids will fly on their own or realize that they're not ready to live
independently. Either way, the kids learn something important. In
addition, having a kid move out of the house is not the same thing as
kicking a kid out of one's life.

...

In article ,
cjra says...

On Mar 11, 7:51 am, Banty wrote:
In article ,
cjra says...


The rules weren't unreasonable for the most part, mostly it meant
respecting each other - letting parents know when to expect them so
they didn't worry.

There you go.

You can breathe easy - I don't think you really agree with Beliavsky ;-)

Phew! That's a relief.

Although I do agree with the 'my way or the highway" view in terms of
the adult children moving out if the rules are not palatable to them.
I think parents need to be open for discussion, but ultimately if it's
their house, it's up to them to make the final decision.

Oh sure - it's their house.

But let's make sure we're talking about the same thing here - are these rules so
that people in the household live together amicably, or are these rules to keep
a strap on the 18 year old? If it's the former (even including a nominal rent),
it's one thing. If it's to keep the 18 year old tethered ostensibly for his or
her own good, it makes little sense.

And I think there's a big difference, for example, between a rule not to being
sleepover boyfriends/girlfriends, and expecting that an 18 or 19 year old always
come home by 10pm. One is a rule of the house because it's the parents' house,
the other is all about restricting the life of the young adult, which has
nothing to do with what happens in the house.


Note that I moved out when I was 17, quite happily with no ill
feelings. I just knew I preferred to live independently and would not
have been comfortable with their rules, whereas at least 3 of my
siblings lived there well into their 20s. Though I disagreed with
them, I don't think they were unreasonable as they reflected their
beliefs.

Me too - moved out when I was 17. Once I broke the curfew when I was 17 and was
grounded. But I had such a wonderful time for a whole night, and the grouding
was until I was going away to college anyway, I considered it a good tradeoff.
Still do

Banty

In article TtwBj.7261$hr3.5166@trnddc04, Jeff says...

Banty wrote:

...

Right - teenaged curfews, at least when we're talking about an 18 year old,
isn't about sleeping hours. It's about their social life.

I see a real contradiction in this stance that a curfew is needed (because the
teen isn't ready to be trusted to be out late) and the statement that if they
don't like it they can leave and live independantly (meaning, they're to be
trusted with *everything*). Hellooo??

You're don't know why the parents *think* a curfew is needed.

I have no clue about the present case. None of us do. No information has been
given - indeed, the original poster's focus was completely on a disagreement
between him and his ex. Had nothing to do with what was good for his daughter.
Having been seemingly validated by one person - he's gone.

And often
kids will fly on their own or realize that they're not ready to live
independently.

Sure. But if it's so all-fired important to not have the Evils of the Night
gobble up a dear sweet 18 year old daughter, what's with having her live
independantly even while she learns that? Many Evul Nights to be had.

Either way, the kids learn something important. In
addition, having a kid move out of the house is not the same thing as
kicking a kid out of one's life.

Sure. But if a tight rein is needed, that would have to keep a 18 year old at
home, no?

Banty

On Mar 10, 7:25�pm, Rosalie B. wrote:
Barbara wrote:
On Mar 10, 3:15�pm, Banty wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Mar 10, 7:39=EF=BF=BDam, Banty wrote:

Why would one need such a measure of *control* over a young adult like tha=
t?

Banty

It would never have occurred to me that you would *not* have a curfew
for a high school student. What's the big deal here?

--Helen

We dont' know if it's a high school student.

Shrug. �You're the one who made the blanket statement that there
should be no curfews for 18 year olds. �Presumably, you don't care
whether or not the student is in high school. �That makes a difference
to some of us.

Barbara

When my son was 18 and in HS he was the 'closer' for a local pizza
restaurant. �He was there by himself to shut up shop, and clean up for
the next day. �He was basically an assistant manager. �But he was
still in school. �He got the job for himself and worked his way up to
almost the top. �He was making pretty good money. �I didn't have a
curfew for him IIRC. �What would I have done if he didn't come home at
the time I set? I'd rather have him at home even if he did come in
late where I could still exert some influence on him so that he WOULD
graduate.. �

Later on, he went up to live with his friends family and was working
two jobs - one at a car wash during the day and stocking shelves at
night. �His friends mother fed him (I think he paid her some money for
that) and woke him up so he got to his jobs on time. �About all he did
was work, eat and sleep. �Although he did take his friends' sister to
her senior prom. �They both wore tuxedos.

Still later he and the friend moved to where the friend could go to
school to be an aircraft mechanic. �He got various jobs and they had
an apartment together. �Then he met his present wife, and moved in
with her. �Eventually they got married. �He was not yet 21.. �

Now I would really rather he not have gotten married so young, and
would have liked him to go to college. �But what would having a curfew
when he was in HS done to help achieve those goals?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't understand the job scenario mentioned a couple of times in
this thread. I had a curfew and I had a job in high school. If my job
schedule put me on closing shift, then I closed and came straight home
- and my parents new on which nights I was scheduled to close, and not
by me even telling them each time. They knew that if I reported to
work at 6 p.m., I was on the closing shift. And the issue was that if
none of us liked the curfew at 18, then we could move out to live by
our own rules. lol.