Character of a growing girl (middle school question)

In ,
Banty wrote:

*It's not so much that it's 'wrong' as it's not required for many more students
*practically the way it is for undergraduate school. Because of the presence of
*the option to borrow against professional earnings in the fairly near future.
*After all, as you said the financial aid person who handed out the packets did
*so just in case someone qualified. She wasn't exactly saying "here's your
*opporunity". There's nothing 'wrong' in checking that out, but the stringent
*requirements really should not have been a surprise. When I considered medical
*school in the early '80s, the answer came down to the same pretty much (I was
*independant by then, but had no assets) - the expectation was that I borrow
*against my future earnings as a physician. Else I be sponsored by the military

Well, but medical students were eligible for the HEALS loans; veterinary
students not. At least, at the time I was in school that was the case!

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large

In article , Rosalie B. says...



Maybe it's just a Penn problem. I heard similar stories from a number of
my now-colleagues.

I think that's it, or else it is a vet school problem. Vet schools
are or have been more difficult to get into than medical school or law
school.

When my dd#1 thought that she might want to be a vet (this was after
the "All Things Bright and Beautiful" series of books), we tried to
figure out how she could do it. She had three options because
Maryland did not have their own vet school or an agreement with
another state for Maryland residents to attend the other state's vet
school at that time.

a) Go to a private (non-state) school such as Cornell (or I supposed
Penn although I didn't consider that)

b) Go and live in a state such as Colorado where there was a vet
school and establish residence there as an independent student. (I do
own some undeveloped land in Colorado and have relatives out there)

c) Go off-shore someplace like Grenada and go to vet school there.

We couldn't afford a, and she didn't like Colorado and didn't want to
go that far away to go to school (neither did dd#3, and dd#2 who did
go to school in Colorado didn't like it there which I just don't
understand). So she gave up on the idea, and became a math major.

Gosh - she didn't want to go to my undergraduate alma mater, Colorado State
University. I can't possibly understand that, either ;-)
I did get to know many vet students there as my best friend was in animal
rescue, but that was back in the '70s. Even then, as I recall admittance was
largely students from western states, and many concentrated in large-animal work
for return to ranching communities.


In any case, because the out-of-state students were not admitted to
the state university vet schools, there was quite stringent processing
to determine if the student was truly independent or was just trying
to slip in under the radar and displace one of the in-state students.
It was much more rigorous than most graduate program qualification
inspection would have been.

This is a matter of admittance, not financial aid once one is admitted.

Banty

(Hillary Israeli) wrote:

In ,
Rosalie B. wrote:

*Well, out of state students have always been and still are admitted to the
*in-state schools - they just are admitted at a lower rate than in-state
*students are.
*
*NO they aren't - or at least they weren't at that time admitted to vet
*schools. This was in the late 70s. Out of state students were
****NOT*** admitted to state VET schools.

Well, yes they were, is all I can say. I don't mean to be obnoxious about
it, but I can think of three colleagues off the top of my head - Dr F, who
went to Penn, but was actually from Michigan (and I know the U of PA is a
private university, but the vet school is state-funded, heavily
state-funded); Dr R, who went to UC Davis as a non-CA-resident, and was
actually from Illinois; and Dr M, who went to Cornell as a
non-NY-resident, and was actually from Maryland.

Cornell which is a private (not state) school WOULD have been a
possibility for her if she could have gotten in (i.e. if she had the
grades) and if we could have paid the tuition.

I'm not completely sure about Penn. We ruled out Cornell on the basis
of cost so maybe we ruled out Penn the same way because we could have
fairly easily established residence in Pennsylvania. My dad actually
taught for a year at Penn (1949-1950) as a visiting professor of
Anatomy (medical school). At that point I think my dh was still in
the Navy, and we maintained PA as our voting residence and all our
cars were licensed there although he retired before she would have
been applying.

She could not have gone (at that point) to the vet school in Virginia
at the state university (I'm not sure, but I think it was at Virginia
Tech), or to the vet school in Colorado without establishing residence
in Colorado or some contiguous state.

I should probably have said that state vet schools only admitted out
of state students from certain (usually contiguous) states. So
someone from Wyoming could be admitted in Colorado. Usually the
states with agreements to admit another state's vet students got some
type of consideration from the residence state - I don't know if it
was financial, but there was some agreement involved. Without it, a
student would not be considered for admission.

I don't think we considered California because she just didn't want to
go that distance and I had no contacts in that state whereas I did in
Colorado.

These people are all in
the 45-50 yr age range

She's now 42.

Actually I know someone from Colorado State, too. I'll email him and see
what he has to say about it

I would be surprised if he said that an out of state student from
Maryland would have been admitted. This caused quite a lot of
heartburn in the family trying to figure out how she could possibly
achieve her goal.

grandma Rosalie

In article , Rosalie B. wrote:
Cornell which is a private (not state) school WOULD have been a
possibility for her if she could have gotten in (i.e. if she had the
grades) and if we could have paid the tuition.

Half right. Cornell is both a state school and a private school, with
each department belonging to one or the other. The vet school is part
of the state school, if I remember right. (I taught at Cornell for 4
years, but in electrical engineering and computer science, which are
both part of the private school.)

--
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Professor of Computer Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
Affiliations for identification only.

In article , David desJardins wrote:
Hillary Israeli writes:
My working was not "permitted" by the school (if they'd known, they
would have been very upset about it).

Well, I'm not surprised by that!

I am. Engineering schools generally admit a few more grad students than
they have money to support (sometimes a lot more). The expectation is
that the "extra" students will work part time to cover their costs, or
will take out large loans that they will pay back when they get their
Master's degrees. (In engineering, the Master's degree is the one that
gets the highest pay---a PhD generally has a lower lifetime income.)

Being a grad student is a full-time job, so a student attempting to do
that and hold down a full-time job usually fails. When that starts to
happen, the student is usually advised to drop to part-time status on
one or the other.


--
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Professor of Computer Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
Affiliations for identification only.

In ,
Kevin Karplus wrote:

*In article , David desJardins wrote:
* Hillary Israeli writes:
* My working was not "permitted" by the school (if they'd known, they
* would have been very upset about it).
*
* Well, I'm not surprised by that!
*
*I am. Engineering schools generally admit a few more grad students than
*they have money to support (sometimes a lot more). The expectation is
*that the "extra" students will work part time to cover their costs, or

I wasn't surprised. My dad did the same thing in MBA school at Wharton
(aka Penn) years before, also breaking the rules, and he'd warned me about
it

*Being a grad student is a full-time job, so a student attempting to do
*that and hold down a full-time job usually fails. When that starts to
*happen, the student is usually advised to drop to part-time status on
*one or the other.

Except you're not allowed to be a part-time vet student, and you have to
pay your rent somehow

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large

In ,
Kevin Karplus wrote:

*In article , Rosalie B. wrote:
* Cornell which is a private (not state) school WOULD have been a
* possibility for her if she could have gotten in (i.e. if she had the
* grades) and if we could have paid the tuition.
*
*Half right. Cornell is both a state school and a private school, with
*each department belonging to one or the other. The vet school is part
*of the state school, if I remember right. (I taught at Cornell for 4
*years, but in electrical engineering and computer science, which are
*both part of the private school.)

Yeah, I know Cornell SVM is one of the land-grant schools...

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...

She's now 42.

Your daughter is one year younger than me and so my investigation of vet
schools might be contemporary to hers. At that time, Cornell published
their admission stats in re where people came from. Virtually all were NY
state residents, one was a non NY state resident, and I believe there were
one or two foreign students that particular year, IIRC.

--
sharon, momma to savannah and willow (11/11/94)

x-no-archive:yes



lizzard woman wrote:


"Rosalie B." wrote in message
.. .

She's now 42.

Your daughter is one year younger than me and so my investigation of vet
schools might be contemporary to hers. At that time, Cornell published
their admission stats in re where people came from. Virtually all were NY
state residents, one was a non NY state resident, and I believe there were
one or two foreign students that particular year, IIRC.

Yes but we were doing this when she was 15 or 16 well in advance of
her actually going to college, let alone vet school. And of course
she'd have had to pay out of state tuition which was a pretty hefty
chunk.

It wasn't too long after that when Maryland formed an agreement with
VA for vet students from MD to go to VT. Maybe 7-8 years later. But
by that time, this dd had gotten married, switched her degree to math,
had 2 kids etc.

One of the daughters of our friends was unable to get into a regular
US vet school because her grades weren't the best, so she went to
Grenada to get her degree. She's a bit older than my kids.



grandma Rosalie

In TVYHb.855888$pl3.602302@pd7tw3no,
lizzard woman wrote:

*
*"Rosalie B." wrote in message
.. .
*
* She's now 42.
*
*Your daughter is one year younger than me and so my investigation of vet
*schools might be contemporary to hers. At that time, Cornell published
*their admission stats in re where people came from. Virtually all were NY
*state residents, one was a non NY state resident, and I believe there were
*one or two foreign students that particular year, IIRC.

Hey, I never said it was easy to get in as an out of state resident.
That's always been very difficult.

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large