I hate homework!

Hi, again --

I know it sounds odd, but YES, try doing the hardest work first when
your student is fresh. This has two positive effects: you get the hard
stuff out of the way, and you do it while you're best able to
concentrate. So you tell your student, "We're going to do this word
first, because that's the toughest one. I'll help you with it if you
need my help. And when you've done it, everything else will be easier!
So the more you work, the easier it will get!"

This won't work for every child, and it works better as they get older,
but it's definitely worth a try.

--Beth Kevles
-THE-COM-HERE
http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would
like me to reply.

Stephanie wrote:
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message

Sure. Obviously, they don't frame it to themselves
that way, and obviously it's not everyone, but there are
at least around here there are plenty of people who spend a
great deal of time and energy pushing, pushing, pushing
their kids to be gifted. They want them in the GT programs
regardless of their test scores (if their little darlings
aren't scoring high enough, it must be the test at fault).
They're the ones doing flash cards with their infants, sending
their perfectly normal preschoolers to academic prep programs,
piling on the outside work in early elementary to be sure that
their kids are advanced enough that they will at least appear
gifted enough to get into the GT program (because, you know,
average or normal isn't good enough for them).

You know *that* is the core of the problem for me. How will their kids NOT
know that average or normal (aka THEM) is not good enough? The behavior has
its impact on the school system to be sure. I don't know how prevelant it is
and how much impact compared to other factors. It may be geographical,
because you don't see it here so much. But the impact to the individual
kids bugs me more.

I'm sure it does vary a lot by region, just as an
emphasis on athletics varies. I just happen to live in an
area where we have a lot of the overbearing academic sorts
of parents, and they're *extremely* competitive. Many of
the parents are very high achievers also, but too many of
them don't get that they were often high achievers because
they worked hard and were motivated, not because they were
gifted and their parents pushed them and bullied others into
giving them things.

but to them, it's more important that their children
get all the right titles and accolades, even if that means
sacrificing their childhood.

What is the purpose of an unearned acolade?

Sadly, as we all know, credentials often get a foot
in the door, even if they are unearned. You might not be
able to succeed at the college/keep the job/whatever, but
they often don't think that far down the road. Plus, even
if the accolade is unearned, the parent still brags about it
at work. It's not about the kid, you know. It's about proving
the superiority of the parent. Superior parents produce
gifted, straight-A, prestigious school attending children,
y'know.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Banty wrote:

Increasingly projects are done in school, actually. And, while certain parts of
the projects are getting emphasized (writing writing writing), other parts are
being sadly watered down (a geometric design-painted stick being accepted for
the New York State Iroqois longhouse project!)

Projects would indeed be a reason, though, for work being done at home. But
they're the less tedious, more FLEXIBLE and PLANNABLE kinds of homework.

The teachers in our elementary and middle schools (bless
their fuzzy little hearts) are finally realizing that project work
*especially* should be done in school, because when it's done at
home there's *waaaaay* too much parental involvement. Not all the
teachers have gotten on the bandwagon, but they're getting closer.
I have been snickering as I see project deadlines slipping as
teachers start trying to do previously home-based projects in class
and realizing just how long those darned things *really* take.
My 7th grade DS's English teacher has been quite smart
about having writing done in class, so that she's really sure
that the child has done the work and so that she can observe the
process from beginning to end.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Cailleach wrote:
Most of the parents I know insist upon homework.

Strange, isn't it? I don't see the point of homework before secondary
school but other parents seem to like it, goodness knows why.
[snip]

Apparently it is so they get used to doing it before they have to do it
at secondary school.

I recently went to a meeting for parents of children who will soon be
starting their last year at primary school. When the (new) head teacher
said they were going to inroduce a much heavier homework load there were
a lot of parents who approved, because of the secondary school issue.

In my experience, children who haven't had much homework before hand
adapt easily to an increased demand when they start secondary. So it
isn' necessary to start it sooner.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

In article , Ericka Kammerer
says...

Banty wrote:

Increasingly projects are done in school, actually. And, while certain parts of
the projects are getting emphasized (writing writing writing), other parts are
being sadly watered down (a geometric design-painted stick being accepted for
the New York State Iroqois longhouse project!)

Projects would indeed be a reason, though, for work being done at home. But
they're the less tedious, more FLEXIBLE and PLANNABLE kinds of homework.

The teachers in our elementary and middle schools (bless
their fuzzy little hearts) are finally realizing that project work
*especially* should be done in school, because when it's done at
home there's *waaaaay* too much parental involvement. Not all the
teachers have gotten on the bandwagon, but they're getting closer.
I have been snickering as I see project deadlines slipping as
teachers start trying to do previously home-based projects in class
and realizing just how long those darned things *really* take.

C'mon, Ericka - they never took that long.

The pare..., I mean I mean, the *students*, would all complete them in the time
alloted before. So what could possibly take longer in the classroom with all
those resources and computers and excellent lighting, lack of TV, etc. etc., to
work in their favor???? :-/


My 7th grade DS's English teacher has been quite smart
about having writing done in class, so that she's really sure
that the child has done the work and so that she can observe the
process from beginning to end.


All my spew aside, this indeed has been a good trend. There is hope. We
started seeing it in middle school, and it has allowed my son to learn a bit,
and lean a bit, on teachers and neighboring students for the written and
descriptive parts, while its been quite apparent who is talented and
contributing on the more physical parts while other student learn from, and lean
on(!) him. And the awareness of current events parts, where my son shines -
because he has adsorbed from the PBS and NPR thats always on at home and in the
car! While some of the Harry-Potter readers who shone in 4th grade might get 10
minutes of FOX news and have little clue ha!

It also has allowed a lot of home time for my son to pursue his interests. And
his best friend to take multiple advanced science courses, since its not
impossibly piling on him at home. Although of course he has a lot of homework.

At this point, I actually think my son should be assigned *more* homework (10th
grade). I think he may have difficulty adjusting to college level workloads.
But he's now ripping through his homeworks mostly at school during free periods,
and getting whatever scores that makes for him. Which are B's and C+ type and
occassionally lower scores. He just doens't have the drive I did, and I don't
know if thats just the way it would have been whatever the educational
atmosphere, or how in the end he had learned to cope. Or what combination of
the two.

Banty

Penny Gaines wrote:
Cailleach wrote:
Most of the parents I know insist upon homework.

Strange, isn't it? I don't see the point of homework before secondary
school but other parents seem to like it, goodness knows why.
[snip]

Apparently it is so they get used to doing it before they have to do it
at secondary school.

Of course, this is a very slippery slope with little
foundation. When one is speaking of children, there are any
number of things that fall neatly into place with little prior
practice when the kids are developmentally ready.

In my experience, children who haven't had much homework before hand
adapt easily to an increased demand when they start secondary. So it
isn' necessary to start it sooner.

Totally agree.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Stephanie wrote:
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
. ..
Stephanie wrote:
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
Sue wrote:
"Dave {Reply Address in.Sig}" wrote in message
I think it's far too young to have homework. I didn't have to do
homework
until I was 11. What's happened to letting children be children?
IMO, it's mostly because of the parents wanting to have gifted kids.
Most of the parents I know insist upon homework.
They don't really want gifted kids. They just want
bragging rights and want their kids to get into prestigious
colleges and be "successful" (as defined by them).
You guys know people like this? This is kind of obscene if you ask me.
Sure. Obviously, they don't frame it to themselves
that way, and obviously it's not everyone, but there are
at least around here there are plenty of people who spend a
great deal of time and energy pushing, pushing, pushing
their kids to be gifted. They want them in the GT programs
regardless of their test scores (if their little darlings
aren't scoring high enough, it must be the test at fault).
They're the ones doing flash cards with their infants, sending
their perfectly normal preschoolers to academic prep programs,
piling on the outside work in early elementary to be sure that
their kids are advanced enough that they will at least appear
gifted enough to get into the GT program (because, you know,
average or normal isn't good enough for them).



You know *that* is the core of the problem for me. How will their kids NOT
know that average or normal (aka THEM) is not good enough? The behavior has
its impact on the school system to be sure. I don't know how prevelant it is
and how much impact compared to other factors. It may be geographical,
because you don't see it here so much. But the impact to the individual
kids bugs me more.


My DS1 attended an academic selective high school, so it was an
unbelievable hotbed of competitiveness and pushy parenting. One
particular incident perhaps summarises their attitude and the lengths
they are willing to go to in the hope their child will get as close to
perfect final scores as possible:

DS1 was doing a group project, so the kids were all at my house working
on it, at the computer in DS1's bedroom. This is in Yr 10...so they are
about 15yo. After about 30minutes, one boy comes out asking for an
ashtray. HUH??? No, I say, not only do I not own one, but I do not allow
smoking in my home, and as you are underage, I'll not allow you to smoke
on my property! Why are you smoking? Surely your parents don't allow
this? Oh yes, he says. They encouraged it. To help me concentrate
better, help me keep calm, stay on-task and study longer, it's fine by
them.
Hmmm.

DS2 attended the same school, but has chosen to go to a more local
senior school for his final 2 years, and I am glad to be out of that
environment where marks are everything

"Beth Kevles" wrote in message
...

Hi, again --

I know it sounds odd, but YES, try doing the hardest work first when
your student is fresh. This has two positive effects: you get the hard
stuff out of the way, and you do it while you're best able to
concentrate. So you tell your student, "We're going to do this word
first, because that's the toughest one. I'll help you with it if you
need my help. And when you've done it, everything else will be easier!
So the more you work, the easier it will get!"

My real life experience was just the opposite -- and it was DS who wanted to
do the hardest stuff first. He would get stuck and never get past it.

"Banty" wrote in message
...
Also consider how many parents are doing what I did refuse to do - go
ahead and
write and correct their kids' homeworks.

I would have DS correct his mistakes, because I want him to know what his
mistakes are and what the correct answers should be. I never wrote his
journals for him, but I know parents who have the kids dictate the journal,
the parent writes it, the kid copies it down. Having had DS write his own
journals from the beginning has really helped him develop his writing
skills. I know that in class, when they have to write without the parents'
help, DS does show that he can write and the teacher is well aware which
kids have help at home.

Banty wrote:
In article CgfJj.14974$oE1.12179@trndny09, Jeff says...
Sue wrote:
"Dave {Reply Address in.Sig}" wrote in message
I think it's far too young to have homework. I didn't have to do homework
until I was 11. What's happened to letting children be children?
IMO, it's mostly because of the parents wanting to have gifted kids. Most of
the parents I know insist upon homework.


Well, the following sure is the party line! Seen every bit of it before!

Hint: what would be convincing would be to provide actual data that students
perform better due to homework in the early grades.

Unfortunately, there don't seem to be many good studies about this.

Part of it is having parents helping kids with their skills (after all,
if every teacher spent 15 extra minutes with each of their twenty kids,
that's 300 minutes or 5 hours) that teachers don't have time to do. Part
of it is having students practice what they learn in class. Part of it
is kids learning discipline so that when they do get older, they know
how to do it.

In 6 hours of school, the kids are getting opportunities to practice, and can
ask the teacher for help *as* they need it and *if* they need it.

Actually, if they think they need it. And, if a teacher has 20 students,
providing individual help to students is rather difficult.

Help
oftentimes being a minute or two to correct a misperception.

Other times, it is explaining a topic over again, perhaps one that the
child missed because he was in nurse's office or home.

This "parents
multiply 15 minutes per student and see what you get - see see see why homework
is necessary" is simply specious.

Who said that homework is necessary? Not I.

Ditto for the "homework habit and study habit" rationalization. Assigning
time-consuming (YES - time consuming - the guidelines are not truly observed)
and tedious work *discourages* good study habits. Just as surely as making each
and every healthy food taste like cardboard would discourage good dietary
habits.

Evidence please.

Some of it is that for kids to finish projects and such, they need more
time than is available in school.

Increasingly projects are done in school, actually. And, while certain parts of
the projects are getting emphasized (writing writing writing), other parts are
being sadly watered down (a geometric design-painted stick being accepted for
the New York State Iroqois longhouse project!)

Projects would indeed be a reason, though, for work being done at home. But
they're the less tedious, more FLEXIBLE and PLANNABLE kinds of homework.

It depends on the students and the student population. Some ethnic
groups are much more willing and interested in homework than others.

One of the major teacher organizations (I think either Amer. Federation
of Teachers or Nat'l Education Association) recommends about 10 minutes
per grade (10 minutes, in 1st grade, 60 in 6th grade, etc.).

Jeff - have you been reading this thread?? Did you even read the first post????

Go back and read the first post and (at least) my responses. The "10 minutes"
is a lie.

“Kids burn out,” Cooper said. “The bottom line really is all kids should
be doing homework, but the amount and type should vary according to
their developmental level and home circumstances. Homework for young
students should be short, lead to success without much struggle,
occasionally involve parents and, when possible, use out-of-school
activities that kids enjoy, such as their sports teams or high-interest
reading.”

http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/2006/03/homework.html

The amount and type of homework that will benefit elementary school
students depends on the family, the kids, the community and the
teachers. In urban communities, often the most successful programs
involve kids doing homework in after school programs that involve kids
doing homework before sports, arts, or other activities. Homework
doesn't work well for kids who live in shelters or don't have a place to
do it. Or with kids who are too busy going to soccer, karote and dance.

There can't be any hard and fast rules.

Jeff

Banty