Teenage daughter missing school bus.

Hi everyone,

This post is for a friend with a 14YO daughter. Her daughter consistently
misses the school bus. She's already missed it 3 times this week. Her mom
wakes her up in plenty of time, but then she either doesn't get out of bed,
or gets out but messes around, or whatever. I get the impression that the
entire morning is filled with her parents yelling at her to get going, get
going. They have punished her in several ways, grounding, taking away
privileges, taking away her things, and nothing has worked. Her mom doesn't
drive, and her dad works nights, so it's a real hassle to have to take her
in to school in the morning.

This is, of course the tip of the iceberg. The daughter really doesn't
listen to anything they tell her. They ground her and she sneaks out
anyway. They take away her radio, and she snoops around until she finds it.
She's flunking out of school. She cussed out a teacher who told her she'd
get a 0 on a paper she didn't turn in. She shows her parents (at least her
mom) no respect whatsoever. When she gets ticked off at them, she just
leaves the house, and often they can't find her. She could very well
already be into sex, drugs, and alcohol, but her mom is a fundamental
Christian and would probably be in deep denial about it.

I think they need more help than a friend or a newsgroup can give. I've
stressed to her numerous times that they should be in counseling -- either
as a family, or just her, whatever the experts tell her. She agrees, but
never does it. I think part of it is that her husband doesn't believe in
counseling, and since my friend doesn't drive, she couldnt' do it without
his buy in.

And I think the crux of the problem is that the parents never really follow
through on anything. For example, one day DD was sassing mom, so mom told
her to go to her room. Instead, she left the house. Her mom, not knowing
where she was, went up to her room and removed all musical appliances, and
hid them. The daughter searched the house and eventually found her radio.
Her mom let her keep it "as long as she didn't play it too loud." So not
only does that undermine the first punishment, but it actually *rewards* her
for snooping and finding it. I also asked her mom why she couldn't find her
daughter when she left, and she said that she doesn't know who all her
friends are, or doesn't have phone numbers for them. I think that in and of
itself is inexcusable.

However they reached this point though, they are where they are now. The
mom is left to do most of the discipline alone. The daughter is no longer
small enough that mom can physically enforce her punishments. That is, if
the daughter wants to leave the house, the mom is not strong enough to hold
her there by force. Her disrespectful behavior is a daily thing, so she's
almost always under some kind of punishment.

So, I realize that this is a huge set of problems, still....any ideas?

Thanks,

Bizby

to bad Supernanny didn't help with teens.... ??!!!?
In my opinion she needs to set some limits and stick to them and find out
who her daughter is hanging out with..and where she goes when she leaves the
house... this motehr therefore either needs to get a driver's license or get
the father more involved. I also think that this is the time for
counselling..she needs help with this problem. I know if it was my
kids..I'd be saying you have two years to straighten up or your outta here
when you're 16... .live under my house..you better live with my rules...you
want to make your own rules... you can't live here.
Karen

"bizby40" wrote in message
...
Hi everyone,

This post is for a friend with a 14YO daughter. Her daughter consistently
misses the school bus. She's already missed it 3 times this week. Her
mom wakes her up in plenty of time, but then she either doesn't get out of
bed, or gets out but messes around, or whatever. I get the impression
that the entire morning is filled with her parents yelling at her to get
going, get going. They have punished her in several ways, grounding,
taking away privileges, taking away her things, and nothing has worked.
Her mom doesn't drive, and her dad works nights, so it's a real hassle to
have to take her in to school in the morning.

This is, of course the tip of the iceberg. The daughter really doesn't
listen to anything they tell her. They ground her and she sneaks out
anyway. They take away her radio, and she snoops around until she finds
it. She's flunking out of school. She cussed out a teacher who told her
she'd get a 0 on a paper she didn't turn in. She shows her parents (at
least her mom) no respect whatsoever. When she gets ticked off at them,
she just leaves the house, and often they can't find her. She could very
well already be into sex, drugs, and alcohol, but her mom is a fundamental
Christian and would probably be in deep denial about it.

I think they need more help than a friend or a newsgroup can give. I've
stressed to her numerous times that they should be in counseling -- either
as a family, or just her, whatever the experts tell her. She agrees, but
never does it. I think part of it is that her husband doesn't believe in
counseling, and since my friend doesn't drive, she couldnt' do it without
his buy in.

And I think the crux of the problem is that the parents never really
follow through on anything. For example, one day DD was sassing mom, so
mom told her to go to her room. Instead, she left the house. Her mom,
not knowing where she was, went up to her room and removed all musical
appliances, and hid them. The daughter searched the house and eventually
found her radio. Her mom let her keep it "as long as she didn't play it
too loud." So not only does that undermine the first punishment, but it
actually *rewards* her for snooping and finding it. I also asked her mom
why she couldn't find her daughter when she left, and she said that she
doesn't know who all her friends are, or doesn't have phone numbers for
them. I think that in and of itself is inexcusable.

However they reached this point though, they are where they are now. The
mom is left to do most of the discipline alone. The daughter is no longer
small enough that mom can physically enforce her punishments. That is, if
the daughter wants to leave the house, the mom is not strong enough to
hold her there by force. Her disrespectful behavior is a daily thing, so
she's almost always under some kind of punishment.

So, I realize that this is a huge set of problems, still....any ideas?

Thanks,

Bizby

"bizby40" wrote in message
...
Hi everyone,

This post is for a friend with a 14YO daughter. Her daughter consistently
misses the school bus. She's already missed it 3 times this week. Her
mom wakes her up in plenty of time, but then she either doesn't get out of
bed, or gets out but messes around, or whatever. I get the impression
that the entire morning is filled with her parents yelling at her to get
going, get going. They have punished her in several ways, grounding,
taking away privileges, taking away her things, and nothing has worked.
Her mom doesn't drive, and her dad works nights, so it's a real hassle to
have to take her in to school in the morning.


Massive disclaimer: I have little kids. I don't know 14 year olds! But my
thought is that they need a new procedure. Before the new procedure, they
say to DD it is your responsibility ot make it to the bus on time. Solicit
involvement by asking if she would prefer to get herself up with the alarm
clock or shoudl they continue... Then Get Out Of It. Don't say a word about
making the bus. Nothing.

What happens if she misses the bus and no one takes her to school? This is
an honest question since my gut tells me that a natural consequence of
failing to make the bus is in order, preferably one that messes with her
world.

This is, of course the tip of the iceberg. The daughter really doesn't
listen to anything they tell her. They ground her and she sneaks out
anyway. They take away her radio, and she snoops around until she finds
it. She's flunking out of school. She cussed out a teacher who told her
she'd get a 0 on a paper she didn't turn in. She shows her parents (at
least her mom) no respect whatsoever. When she gets ticked off at them,
she just leaves the house, and often they can't find her. She could very
well already be into sex, drugs, and alcohol, but her mom is a fundamental
Christian and would probably be in deep denial about it.

I think they need more help than a friend or a newsgroup can give. I've
stressed to her numerous times that they should be in counseling -- either
as a family, or just her, whatever the experts tell her. She agrees, but
never does it. I think part of it is that her husband doesn't believe in
counseling, and since my friend doesn't drive, she couldnt' do it without
his buy in.


Woops. I shoud have read through. I have absolutely nothing worthwhile to
add as this is way out of my league. I can support your suggestion of
counseling, but I would think family would be the best. It really does not
sound like the daughter has a problem all on her own outside the context of
the parent / daughter dynamic. Any other kids in the household?

Until Mom and/or Dad get out of the denial/ path of least resistance/ No
Daughter Of Mine Needs Counseling mindset, my initial thought is that they
are hosed.

And I think the crux of the problem is that the parents never really
follow through on anything.

Oh boy. That thought came to my mind when I read that she sneaks out after
grounding. *Then* what do they do. This does not sound like a habit that
would be as easy to break as when she was say 2.

For example, one day DD was sassing mom, so mom told her to go to her
room. Instead, she left the house. Her mom, not knowing where she was,
went up to her room and removed all musical appliances, and hid them. The
daughter searched the house and eventually found her radio. Her mom let
her keep it "as long as she didn't play it too loud." So not only does
that undermine the first punishment, but it actually *rewards* her for
snooping and finding it. I also asked her mom why she couldn't find her
daughter when she left, and she said that she doesn't know who all her
friends are, or doesn't have phone numbers for them. I think that in and
of itself is inexcusable.

However they reached this point though, they are where they are now. The
mom is left to do most of the discipline alone. The daughter is no longer
small enough that mom can physically enforce her punishments. That is, if
the daughter wants to leave the house, the mom is not strong enough to
hold her there by force. Her disrespectful behavior is a daily thing, so
she's almost always under some kind of punishment.

So, I realize that this is a huge set of problems, still....any ideas?

Thanks,

Bizby

For what my ideas are worth, there is not a thing in the world you can do.
It sounds like you have told the Mom some good advice that she is not
following through on. I suppose she could make a stink with the father about
getting into counseling. Personally, I would not take the dismissal of
counseling lying down if I were the mom. Or I would take the bus. Or I would
take a cab. Or whatever. But you are a friend, not the Mom. Keep giving her
the sensible advice you are giving.

Karen Ray-Stewart wrote:
to bad Supernanny didn't help with teens.... ??!!!?

Hee hee... my immediate thought was to suggest Bizby send her friend to
Dr Phil!!

Bizby, I think you've assessed the situation perfectly. Your friend is
not stepping up to the plate and doing the tough job of parenting.
She's letting the kid walk all over her. And it's not just your friend
- it's the whole family dynamic. Her husband is responsible here, too.

The question is, what can YOU do as her friend to help her?
Unfortunately, there's not much. You might get her Dr Phil's Family
First book, and encourage her to watch the show (he deals with teen
issues all the time). But you can't force her to read the book and
watch the show, or go to counseling.

If it were my friend, I think I would ask her this question: "What
purpose is it serving you, personally, to let your kid get away with
all of this?" I'd explore that question with her.

Does it have to do with the way she was raised? Were her parents
super-strict and she hated that? Does she harbor some guilt which
prevents her from being too tough? Or is she just lazy or
conflict-avoidant, and it's been easier to do nothing, at least until
now. Perhaps now the consequence of being lax with the discipline is
starting to wear her down and not be worth it anymore.

It sounds like she's made an attempt to apply discipline, but did it
wrong and without consistency. Taking away possessions like the radio
was a good step in the right direction, but unfortunately, lacked
follow through when her DD found the radio. You might suggest that next
time her DD is late for the bus, she threaten to give the radio away to
charity - and then MEAN IT and follow through!

jen

On 24 Feb 2005 11:41:12 -0800, "shinypenny"
scribbled:


Karen Ray-Stewart wrote:
to bad Supernanny didn't help with teens.... ??!!!?

Hee hee... my immediate thought was to suggest Bizby send her friend to
Dr Phil!!

Ack. After the show I saw the other day I wouldn't send my worst
enemy to Dr. Phil.

Nan

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 14:25:31 -0500, Stephanie Stowe wrote:

"bizby40" wrote in message
...
Hi everyone,

This post is for a friend with a 14YO daughter. Her daughter consistently
misses the school bus. She's already missed it 3 times this week. Her
mom wakes her up in plenty of time, but then she either doesn't get out of
bed, or gets out but messes around, or whatever. I get the impression
that the entire morning is filled with her parents yelling at her to get
going, get going. They have punished her in several ways, grounding,
taking away privileges, taking away her things, and nothing has worked.
Her mom doesn't drive, and her dad works nights, so it's a real hassle to
have to take her in to school in the morning.


Massive disclaimer: I have little kids. I don't know 14 year olds! But my
thought is that they need a new procedure. Before the new procedure, they
say to DD it is your responsibility ot make it to the bus on time. Solicit
involvement by asking if she would prefer to get herself up with the alarm
clock or shoudl they continue... Then Get Out Of It. Don't say a word about
making the bus. Nothing.

What happens if she misses the bus and no one takes her to school? This is
an honest question since my gut tells me that a natural consequence of
failing to make the bus is in order, preferably one that messes with her
world.


Well, if her district is anything like ours, then the mother is going
to be held responsible for the tardiness/absenteeism - to a much
higher degree than the daughter. So there aren't really any natural
consequences for the daughter - especially if she doesn't care about
school in the first place.

bizby40 wrote:

snip

I guess before the parents can do anything, they need to know what
she's avoiding at school. Is someone bullying her? Is it because
she's doing poorly, and being there makes her feel like a failure?
Maybe she needs help and support with doing better at her schoolwork,
and once she develops a sense of accomplishment and pride, she'll WANT
to go (or at least not avoid it so actively).

It sounds like a whole bunch of her needs aren't being met.

If my kids left the house when they were grounded (mind you, I have
mostly hypothetical kids right now, but I was a *bad* teenager and I
know what would've worked on me), I would find their most prized
posession and give it away - charity, whatever, but it needs to be OUT
of the house and NOT replaced. If they come home and their radio or tv
or whatever is gone, and they say, "Why is it gone?" I'd say, "Because
you left. And next time you leave while grounded, I'm taking
(something else)." Eventually it will "cost" too much to leave.
People who don't follow rules don't get privileges, and having things
(especially things that Mom and Dad probably bought) is a privilege.

Another consequence that might be meaningful, if they follow through -
for every minute that you're AWOL while grounded, we're adding a day to
the length of time between your birthday and when you get your drivers
license. So, if they can have it at 16 in their area, she starts with
16 today. If she spends 3 hours out of the house while grounded
between now and then, she can't have her drivers license until she's 16
+ 90 days. Then keep a running tab.

They might consider trying this once or twice with something shorter
term, so that she gets the picture that they're serious, and so that
they get in the habit of enforcing things, before they try on something
that's 2 years away. But I'll tell you what, I was desperate to get my
license, and I would've been Pollyanna if my parents had thought to use
that as a punishment (although I didn't go really crazy until after I
had my license... I was a late bloomer).

This is a natural consequence, too, because the price of going AWOL in
real life (from jail or house arrest, which is the adult equivalent of
grounding) is a further loss of freedom - and having a license is the
ultimate symbol of teenage freedom.

Good luck to them, sounds like they need it.

Amy

I guess before the parents can do anything, they need to know what
she's avoiding at school. Is someone bullying her? Is it because
she's doing poorly, and being there makes her feel like a failure?
Maybe she needs help and support with doing better at her schoolwork,
and once she develops a sense of accomplishment and pride, she'll WANT
to go (or at least not avoid it so actively).

It sounds like a whole bunch of her needs aren't being met.

I actualy agree with you! but like you my teenagers are hypotheticalI was
gonna post something simular but i figured that I would wait til Bonnie was
20

Tori

--
Bonnie 3/02
Xavier 10/04

In article ,
"Karen Ray-Stewart" wrote:

elling..she needs help with this problem. I know if it was my
kids..I'd be saying you have two years to straighten up or your outta here
when you're 16... .live under my house..you better live with my rules...you
want to make your own rules... you can't live here.

That's easy to say, but very hard to do. When you know that if you kick
your child out, and they have no visible means of support, they will end
up on the street, and possibly end up selling drugs or into prostitution
to support themselves -- could you do it? Absent really awful stuff, I
could not - at least, not younger than 18 or 21. Even then, under 18 I
would not just kick them out -- I would find somewhere else for them to
be; possibly a relative, possibly some sort of residential treatment
program.

The "tough love" of just kicking a minor out is something I've never
understood -- and I DID live with a 14 yo who was running away, would go
out windows when she was grounded, had problems with truancy, and lots
of other things. Eventually, she DID graduate from high school, though
she never enjoyed school. Now she's taking Jr. College classes and IS
enjoying them. But it was a tough couple of years.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

In article .com,
"shinypenny" wrote:

Does it have to do with the way she was raised? Were her parents
super-strict and she hated that? Does she harbor some guilt which
prevents her from being too tough? Or is she just lazy or
conflict-avoidant, and it's been easier to do nothing, at least until
now. Perhaps now the consequence of being lax with the discipline is
starting to wear her down and not be worth it anymore.

Another alternative explanation is that she's severely depressed.
Adolescent depression doesn't look like adult depression, and can
manifest itself with this kind of angry acting out. If that's the case,
firm boundaries MIGHT help with the behavior -- but, ultimately,
treatment for the depression will be necessary.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care