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Some good news?
I hope this is really as good as it sounds!
~AZ~ Posted from another group: Recently in California, the Supreme Court has allowed a decision to stand regarding the overturning of paternity fraud. I have copies of the actual briefs filed in the case ready for similar use in other states and jurisdictions. The County of Los Angeles moved to have the Supreme Court depublish the case in order to deprive its use as precedent. What is important is that the decision states that although the statutory time for default set aside had passed, the law required the default to be set aside and that the County is obligated to act for the public good. This has been a long time coming and many individuals and groups acted in concert and rose to the occasion to prevent the depublication of the decision. Hooray for working together to accomplish what any one of us could not have done on our own. For the edification of the reader, below is the actual decision. There are two important decisions therein: 1) Man who was proved not to be father of two boys was entitled to relief from default judgment establishing his parental relationship and ordering him to pay support, even though his motion for relief was untimely, and any fraud on mother's part did not entitle him to relief; family law required county to correct child support mistakes, and man always denied being father and never established relationship with boys. West's Ann.Cal.C.C.P. § 473(b); and, 2) A county, a political embodiment of its citizens and inhabitants, must always act in the public interest and for the general good. Wow! Read that second one again! Larry Hellmann, President National Congress for Fathers and Children 120 Cal.App.4th 246, 14 Cal.Rptr.3d 905 Court of Appeal, Second District, Division 8. COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES, Plaintiff and Respondent, v. Manuel NAVARRO, Defendant and Appellant. No. B155166. June 30, 2004. Background: After blood tests proved that man was not father of two boys, man moved to set aside default judgment establishing his parental relationship and ordering him to pay support. The Superior Court, Los Angeles County, No. BY119238, James B. Copelan, Temporary Judge, denied man's motion. He appealed. Holding: The Court of Appeal, Rubin, J., held that man was entitled to relief from default. Reversed. **906 *247 Linda S. Ferrer for Defendant and Appellant. Steve Cooley, District Attorney; Phillip Browning, Director, L. Cruz, Deputy Director, Nancy K. Ruffolo, Attorney in Charge, and Fesia A. Davenport, Staff Attorney, Child Support Services Department, for Plaintiff and Respondent. RUBIN, J. Manuel Navarro appeals from the trial court's denial of his motion to vacate a default judgment entered against him in 1996. The judgment established his parental relationship with two boys whom respondent County of Los Angeles now concedes are not his sons, and ordered him to pay child support. He seeks reimbursement of child support, welfare reimbursements, attorneys fees, and costs. We reverse. *248 FACTS AND PROCEDURAL HISTORY In March 1996, the Bureau of Family Support Operations in the District Attorney's Office [FN1] (the County) filed a complaint to establish the paternity and child support obligations of "Manuel Nava" for two boys born in December 1995 who had been receiving public assistance. The County attempted substitute service of the complaint in May 1996 by leaving a copy at appellant's address with "Jane Doe," listed as "sister" and "co-tenant" and serving a copy by first class mail. The complaint alerted appellant of the danger of not answering the complaint if he denied paternity, and warned he could become liable for child support if the court determined he was the boys' father. Appellant did not answer the complaint and the County took his default in July 1996. The court thereafter entered judgment establishing appellant's paternity and ordered him to pay $247 in monthly child support. FN1. Pursuant to Family Code section 17304, on July 1, 2001, the County of Los Angeles Child Support Services Department replaced the District Attorney's Bureau of Family Support Operations as the County agency charged with establishing parentage, obtaining and enforcing orders for support. Five years later in July 2001 appellant filed a motion to set aside the judgment and have his answer deemed filed because a recent genetic blood test indisputably proved he was not the boys' father. He claimed that although he lived at the address cited on the complaint's proof of service, and he never attempted to avoid service, he nonetheless never received a copy of the summons and complaint or default judgment. In support of his motion, he noted that blood tests in a separate paternity action in San Bernardino County had conclusively proven a few months earlier that he was not the boys' father. Based on those tests, San Bernardino County authorities had dismissed their paternity suit against him with prejudice. Acknowledging the six-month period for setting aside the judgment under Code of Civil Procedure section 473 had long passed, he argued relief was nevertheless proper because the boys' mother had committed extrinsic fraud in asserting he was the father when in fact he was not, thus depriving him of a fair adversarial hearing. The County opposed the motion, arguing appellant had not shown extrinsic fraud or mistake. According to the County, the **907 mother's mere assertion that he was the father was insufficient to establish extrinsic fraud. Apparently agreeing with the County, the court denied appellant's motion to set aside the judgment. This appeal followed. DISCUSSION By strict application of the law, appellant should be denied relief. He did not file his motion to set aside the County's default judgment *249 against him until five years after its entry, long past the maximum six months allowed for setting aside a default judgment. (Code Civ. Proc., § 473, subd. (b).) Furthermore, appellant cannot win relief under the doctrine of extrinsic fraud because mother's false assertion that he was the boys' father is not the sort of falsehood the doctrine encompasses. (See, e.g., Kachig v. Boothe (1971) 22 Cal.App.3d 626, 632-633, 99 Cal.Rptr. 393.) In sum, a narrow, technical reading of the controlling case law and statutes, with their emphasis on the public interest in the finality of judgments, suggests the trial court ruled correctly. Sometimes even more important policies than the finality of judgments are at stake, however. Mistakes do happen, and a profound mistake occurred here when appellant was charged with being the boys' father, an error the County concedes. Instead of remedying its mistake, the County retreats behind the procedural redoubt offered by the passage of time since it took appellant's default. [FN2] FN2. We recognize that finality and certainty assume greater importance when the issue is paternity in a long-standing parent-child relationship, for then the child's psychological well being is at stake. Here, however, the issue is solely the cold-hard cash of child support, as appellant has always denied paternity and has no relationship with the boys. In this dispute over money, the greater equities lie with appellant, who has no relationship with the boys, than with the County, whose obligation to the general welfare compelled it to support the boys when their real father did not. It is this state's policy that when a mistake occurs in a child support action, the County must correct it, not exploit it. When the Legislature enacted the Child Support Enforcement Fairness Act of 2000, it declared "The efficient and fair enforcement of child support orders is essential to ensuring compliance with those orders and respect for the administration of justice.... Thousands of individuals each year are mistakenly identified as being liable for child support actions. As a result of that action, the ability to earn a living is severely impaired, assets are seized, and family relationships are often destroyed. It is the moral, legal, and ethical obligation of all enforcement agencies to take prompt action to recognize those cases where a person is mistakenly identified as a support obligor in order to minimize the harm and correct any injustice to that person." (Stats.1999, ch. 653 (A.B.380), italics added.) The County, a political embodiment of its citizens and inhabitants, must always act in the public interest and for the general good. It should not enforce child support judgments it knows to be unfounded. And in particular, it should not ask the courts to assist it in doing so. Despite the Legislature's clear directive that child support agencies not pursue mistaken child support actions, the County persists in asking that we do so. We will not sully our *250 hands by participating in an unjust, and factually unfounded, result. We say no to the County, and we reverse. DISPOSITION The order denying appellant's motion to set aside the default judgment is reversed. **908 Each side to bear their own costs on appeal. We concur: COOPER, P.J., and BOLAND, J. Cal.App. 2 Dist.,2004. County of Los Angeles v. Navarro 120 Cal.App.4th 246, 14 Cal.Rptr.3d 905, 4 Cal. Daily Op. Serv. 5951, 2004 Daily Journal D.A.R. 8069 ===== Larry Hellmann, President National Congress for Fathers and Children 550 West Vista Way, Suite 404 Vista, CA 92083 (760) 758-0268; Fax - 758-9557 |
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Woohoo! This *IS* good news! Now, can this judgement be used to aid those falsely accused in states other than California? - Ron ^*^ AZ Astrea wrote: I hope this is really as good as it sounds! ~AZ~ Posted from another group: Recently in California, the Supreme Court has allowed a decision to stand regarding the overturning of paternity fraud. I have copies of the actual briefs filed in the case ready for similar use in other states and jurisdictions. The County of Los Angeles moved to have the Supreme Court depublish the case in order to deprive its use as precedent. What is important is that the decision states that although the statutory time for default set aside had passed, the law required the default to be set aside and that the County is obligated to act for the public good. This has been a long time coming and many individuals and groups acted in concert and rose to the occasion to prevent the depublication of the decision. Hooray for working together to accomplish what any one of us could not have done on our own. For the edification of the reader, below is the actual decision. There are two important decisions therein: 1) Man who was proved not to be father of two boys was entitled to relief from default judgment establishing his parental relationship and ordering him to pay support, even though his motion for relief was untimely, and any fraud on mother's part did not entitle him to relief; family law required county to correct child support mistakes, and man always denied being father and never established relationship with boys. West's Ann.Cal.C.C.P. § 473(b); and, 2) A county, a political embodiment of its citizens and inhabitants, must always act in the public interest and for the general good. Wow! Read that second one again! Larry Hellmann, President National Congress for Fathers and Children 120 Cal.App.4th 246, 14 Cal.Rptr.3d 905 Court of Appeal, Second District, Division 8. COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES, Plaintiff and Respondent, v. Manuel NAVARRO, Defendant and Appellant. No. B155166. June 30, 2004. Background: After blood tests proved that man was not father of two boys, man moved to set aside default judgment establishing his parental relationship and ordering him to pay support. The Superior Court, Los Angeles County, No. BY119238, James B. Copelan, Temporary Judge, denied man's motion. He appealed. Holding: The Court of Appeal, Rubin, J., held that man was entitled to relief from default. Reversed. **906 *247 Linda S. Ferrer for Defendant and Appellant. Steve Cooley, District Attorney; Phillip Browning, Director, L. Cruz, Deputy Director, Nancy K. Ruffolo, Attorney in Charge, and Fesia A. Davenport, Staff Attorney, Child Support Services Department, for Plaintiff and Respondent. RUBIN, J. Manuel Navarro appeals from the trial court's denial of his motion to vacate a default judgment entered against him in 1996. The judgment established his parental relationship with two boys whom respondent County of Los Angeles now concedes are not his sons, and ordered him to pay child support. He seeks reimbursement of child support, welfare reimbursements, attorneys fees, and costs. We reverse. *248 FACTS AND PROCEDURAL HISTORY In March 1996, the Bureau of Family Support Operations in the District Attorney's Office [FN1] (the County) filed a complaint to establish the paternity and child support obligations of "Manuel Nava" for two boys born in December 1995 who had been receiving public assistance. The County attempted substitute service of the complaint in May 1996 by leaving a copy at appellant's address with "Jane Doe," listed as "sister" and "co-tenant" and serving a copy by first class mail. The complaint alerted appellant of the danger of not answering the complaint if he denied paternity, and warned he could become liable for child support if the court determined he was the boys' father. Appellant did not answer the complaint and the County took his default in July 1996. The court thereafter entered judgment establishing appellant's paternity and ordered him to pay $247 in monthly child support. FN1. Pursuant to Family Code section 17304, on July 1, 2001, the County of Los Angeles Child Support Services Department replaced the District Attorney's Bureau of Family Support Operations as the County agency charged with establishing parentage, obtaining and enforcing orders for support. Five years later in July 2001 appellant filed a motion to set aside the judgment and have his answer deemed filed because a recent genetic blood test indisputably proved he was not the boys' father. He claimed that although he lived at the address cited on the complaint's proof of service, and he never attempted to avoid service, he nonetheless never received a copy of the summons and complaint or default judgment. In support of his motion, he noted that blood tests in a separate paternity action in San Bernardino County had conclusively proven a few months earlier that he was not the boys' father. Based on those tests, San Bernardino County authorities had dismissed their paternity suit against him with prejudice. Acknowledging the six-month period for setting aside the judgment under Code of Civil Procedure section 473 had long passed, he argued relief was nevertheless proper because the boys' mother had committed extrinsic fraud in asserting he was the father when in fact he was not, thus depriving him of a fair adversarial hearing. The County opposed the motion, arguing appellant had not shown extrinsic fraud or mistake. According to the County, the **907 mother's mere assertion that he was the father was insufficient to establish extrinsic fraud. Apparently agreeing with the County, the court denied appellant's motion to set aside the judgment. This appeal followed. DISCUSSION By strict application of the law, appellant should be denied relief. He did not file his motion to set aside the County's default judgment *249 against him until five years after its entry, long past the maximum six months allowed for setting aside a default judgment. (Code Civ. Proc., § 473, subd. (b).) Furthermore, appellant cannot win relief under the doctrine of extrinsic fraud because mother's false assertion that he was the boys' father is not the sort of falsehood the doctrine encompasses. (See, e.g., Kachig v. Boothe (1971) 22 Cal.App.3d 626, 632-633, 99 Cal.Rptr. 393.) In sum, a narrow, technical reading of the controlling case law and statutes, with their emphasis on the public interest in the finality of judgments, suggests the trial court ruled correctly. Sometimes even more important policies than the finality of judgments are at stake, however. Mistakes do happen, and a profound mistake occurred here when appellant was charged with being the boys' father, an error the County concedes. Instead of remedying its mistake, the County retreats behind the procedural redoubt offered by the passage of time since it took appellant's default. [FN2] FN2. We recognize that finality and certainty assume greater importance when the issue is paternity in a long-standing parent-child relationship, for then the child's psychological well being is at stake. Here, however, the issue is solely the cold-hard cash of child support, as appellant has always denied paternity and has no relationship with the boys. In this dispute over money, the greater equities lie with appellant, who has no relationship with the boys, than with the County, whose obligation to the general welfare compelled it to support the boys when their real father did not. It is this state's policy that when a mistake occurs in a child support action, the County must correct it, not exploit it. When the Legislature enacted the Child Support Enforcement Fairness Act of 2000, it declared "The efficient and fair enforcement of child support orders is essential to ensuring compliance with those orders and respect for the administration of justice.... Thousands of individuals each year are mistakenly identified as being liable for child support actions. As a result of that action, the ability to earn a living is severely impaired, assets are seized, and family relationships are often destroyed. It is the moral, legal, and ethical obligation of all enforcement agencies to take prompt action to recognize those cases where a person is mistakenly identified as a support obligor in order to minimize the harm and correct any injustice to that person." (Stats.1999, ch. 653 (A.B.380), italics added.) The County, a political embodiment of its citizens and inhabitants, must always act in the public interest and for the general good. It should not enforce child support judgments it knows to be unfounded. And in particular, it should not ask the courts to assist it in doing so. Despite the Legislature's clear directive that child support agencies not pursue mistaken child support actions, the County persists in asking that we do so. We will not sully our *250 hands by participating in an unjust, and factually unfounded, result. We say no to the County, and we reverse. DISPOSITION The order denying appellant's motion to set aside the default judgment is reversed. **908 Each side to bear their own costs on appeal. We concur: COOPER, P.J., and BOLAND, J. Cal.App. 2 Dist.,2004. County of Los Angeles v. Navarro 120 Cal.App.4th 246, 14 Cal.Rptr.3d 905, 4 Cal. Daily Op. Serv. 5951, 2004 Daily Journal D.A.R. 8069 ===== Larry Hellmann, President National Congress for Fathers and Children 550 West Vista Way, Suite 404 Vista, CA 92083 (760) 758-0268; Fax - 758-9557 |
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What has happened now in this case is that the California Supreme Court
has refused to review a decision of the Court of Appeal, Second District, thus protecting a man in a paternity fraud situation. But will he get his money back? I very much doubt it. The Court of Appeal decision may have value as a precedent. So it MAY be good news. However, consider the following. There is a reference in the court decision to the fact that "strict application of the law" would prevent the man from getting relief from the child support order because he waited five years before seeking it. In other words, California law ALLOWS the mother to perpetrate paternity fraud in order to get money from this man, and ALLOWS the County of Los Angeles to help her to do so. The judges simply ignored the terms of the law, because the facts of this case were so outrageous. The judges' ruling in this case undoubtedly reflected natural justice. However, I do not believe that in general judges should be allowed to disregard the plain meaning and intention of the law. Their jobs should not be to decide what they think should be in the law. In one sense this ruling is only another illustration of the fact that judges are one of the biggest categories of scofflaws in the U.S. The answer is to change the law -- not to rely on the hope that other judges will follow this precedent, which appears to be based on nothing other than the gut feelings of these judges. "AZ Astrea" wrote in message ... I hope this is really as good as it sounds! ~AZ~ Posted from another group: Recently in California, the Supreme Court has allowed a decision to stand regarding the overturning of paternity fraud. I have copies of the actual briefs filed in the case ready for similar use in other states and jurisdictions. The County of Los Angeles moved to have the Supreme Court depublish the case in order to deprive its use as precedent. What is important is that the decision states that although the statutory time for default set aside had passed, the law required the default to be set aside and that the County is obligated to act for the public good. This has been a long time coming and many individuals and groups acted in concert and rose to the occasion to prevent the depublication of the decision. Hooray for working together to accomplish what any one of us could not have done on our own. For the edification of the reader, below is the actual decision. There are two important decisions therein: 1) Man who was proved not to be father of two boys was entitled to relief from default judgment establishing his parental relationship and ordering him to pay support, even though his motion for relief was untimely, and any fraud on mother's part did not entitle him to relief; family law required county to correct child support mistakes, and man always denied being father and never established relationship with boys. West's Ann.Cal.C.C.P. § 473(b); and, 2) A county, a political embodiment of its citizens and inhabitants, must always act in the public interest and for the general good. Wow! Read that second one again! Larry Hellmann, President National Congress for Fathers and Children 120 Cal.App.4th 246, 14 Cal.Rptr.3d 905 Court of Appeal, Second District, Division 8. COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES, Plaintiff and Respondent, v. Manuel NAVARRO, Defendant and Appellant. No. B155166. June 30, 2004. Background: After blood tests proved that man was not father of two boys, man moved to set aside default judgment establishing his parental relationship and ordering him to pay support. The Superior Court, Los Angeles County, No. BY119238, James B. Copelan, Temporary Judge, denied man's motion. He appealed. Holding: The Court of Appeal, Rubin, J., held that man was entitled to relief from default. Reversed. **906 *247 Linda S. Ferrer for Defendant and Appellant. Steve Cooley, District Attorney; Phillip Browning, Director, L. Cruz, Deputy Director, Nancy K. Ruffolo, Attorney in Charge, and Fesia A. Davenport, Staff Attorney, Child Support Services Department, for Plaintiff and Respondent. RUBIN, J. Manuel Navarro appeals from the trial court's denial of his motion to vacate a default judgment entered against him in 1996. The judgment established his parental relationship with two boys whom respondent County of Los Angeles now concedes are not his sons, and ordered him to pay child support. He seeks reimbursement of child support, welfare reimbursements, attorneys fees, and costs. We reverse. *248 FACTS AND PROCEDURAL HISTORY In March 1996, the Bureau of Family Support Operations in the District Attorney's Office [FN1] (the County) filed a complaint to establish the paternity and child support obligations of "Manuel Nava" for two boys born in December 1995 who had been receiving public assistance. The County attempted substitute service of the complaint in May 1996 by leaving a copy at appellant's address with "Jane Doe," listed as "sister" and "co-tenant" and serving a copy by first class mail. The complaint alerted appellant of the danger of not answering the complaint if he denied paternity, and warned he could become liable for child support if the court determined he was the boys' father. Appellant did not answer the complaint and the County took his default in July 1996. The court thereafter entered judgment establishing appellant's paternity and ordered him to pay $247 in monthly child support. FN1. Pursuant to Family Code section 17304, on July 1, 2001, the County of Los Angeles Child Support Services Department replaced the District Attorney's Bureau of Family Support Operations as the County agency charged with establishing parentage, obtaining and enforcing orders for support. Five years later in July 2001 appellant filed a motion to set aside the judgment and have his answer deemed filed because a recent genetic blood test indisputably proved he was not the boys' father. He claimed that although he lived at the address cited on the complaint's proof of service, and he never attempted to avoid service, he nonetheless never received a copy of the summons and complaint or default judgment. In support of his motion, he noted that blood tests in a separate paternity action in San Bernardino County had conclusively proven a few months earlier that he was not the boys' father. Based on those tests, San Bernardino County authorities had dismissed their paternity suit against him with prejudice. Acknowledging the six-month period for setting aside the judgment under Code of Civil Procedure section 473 had long passed, he argued relief was nevertheless proper because the boys' mother had committed extrinsic fraud in asserting he was the father when in fact he was not, thus depriving him of a fair adversarial hearing. The County opposed the motion, arguing appellant had not shown extrinsic fraud or mistake. According to the County, the **907 mother's mere assertion that he was the father was insufficient to establish extrinsic fraud. Apparently agreeing with the County, the court denied appellant's motion to set aside the judgment. This appeal followed. DISCUSSION By strict application of the law, appellant should be denied relief. He did not file his motion to set aside the County's default judgment *249 against him until five years after its entry, long past the maximum six months allowed for setting aside a default judgment. (Code Civ. Proc., § 473, subd. (b).) Furthermore, appellant cannot win relief under the doctrine of extrinsic fraud because mother's false assertion that he was the boys' father is not the sort of falsehood the doctrine encompasses. (See, e.g., Kachig v. Boothe (1971) 22 Cal.App.3d 626, 632-633, 99 Cal.Rptr. 393.) In sum, a narrow, technical reading of the controlling case law and statutes, with their emphasis on the public interest in the finality of judgments, suggests the trial court ruled correctly. Sometimes even more important policies than the finality of judgments are at stake, however. Mistakes do happen, and a profound mistake occurred here when appellant was charged with being the boys' father, an error the County concedes. Instead of remedying its mistake, the County retreats behind the procedural redoubt offered by the passage of time since it took appellant's default. [FN2] FN2. We recognize that finality and certainty assume greater importance when the issue is paternity in a long-standing parent-child relationship, for then the child's psychological well being is at stake. Here, however, the issue is solely the cold-hard cash of child support, as appellant has always denied paternity and has no relationship with the boys. In this dispute over money, the greater equities lie with appellant, who has no relationship with the boys, than with the County, whose obligation to the general welfare compelled it to support the boys when their real father did not. It is this state's policy that when a mistake occurs in a child support action, the County must correct it, not exploit it. When the Legislature enacted the Child Support Enforcement Fairness Act of 2000, it declared "The efficient and fair enforcement of child support orders is essential to ensuring compliance with those orders and respect for the administration of justice.... Thousands of individuals each year are mistakenly identified as being liable for child support actions. As a result of that action, the ability to earn a living is severely impaired, assets are seized, and family relationships are often destroyed. It is the moral, legal, and ethical obligation of all enforcement agencies to take prompt action to recognize those cases where a person is mistakenly identified as a support obligor in order to minimize the harm and correct any injustice to that person." (Stats.1999, ch. 653 (A.B.380), italics added.) The County, a political embodiment of its citizens and inhabitants, must always act in the public interest and for the general good. It should not enforce child support judgments it knows to be unfounded. And in particular, it should not ask the courts to assist it in doing so. Despite the Legislature's clear directive that child support agencies not pursue mistaken child support actions, the County persists in asking that we do so. We will not sully our *250 hands by participating in an unjust, and factually unfounded, result. We say no to the County, and we reverse. DISPOSITION The order denying appellant's motion to set aside the default judgment is reversed. **908 Each side to bear their own costs on appeal. We concur: COOPER, P.J., and BOLAND, J. Cal.App. 2 Dist.,2004. County of Los Angeles v. Navarro 120 Cal.App.4th 246, 14 Cal.Rptr.3d 905, 4 Cal. Daily Op. Serv. 5951, 2004 Daily Journal D.A.R. 8069 ===== Larry Hellmann, President National Congress for Fathers and Children 550 West Vista Way, Suite 404 Vista, CA 92083 (760) 758-0268; Fax - 758-9557 |
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AZ Astrea wrote:
I hope this is really as good as it sounds! ~AZ~ Posted from another group: Recently in California, the Supreme Court has allowed a decision to stand regarding the overturning of paternity fraud. I have copies of the actual briefs filed in the case ready for similar use in other states and jurisdictions. The County of Los Angeles moved to have the Supreme Court depublish the case in order to deprive its use as precedent. What is important is that the decision states that although the statutory time for default set aside had passed, the law required the default to be set aside and that the County is obligated to act for the public good. This has been a long time coming and many individuals and groups acted in concert and rose to the occasion to prevent the depublication of the decision. Hooray for working together to accomplish what any one of us could not have done on our own. For the edification of the reader, below is the actual decision. There are two important decisions therein: 1) Man who was proved not to be father of two boys was entitled to relief from default judgment establishing his parental relationship and ordering him to pay support, even though his motion for relief was untimely, and any fraud on mother's part did not entitle him to relief; family law required county to correct child support mistakes, and man always denied being father and never established relationship with boys. West's Ann.Cal.C.C.P. § 473(b); and, 2) A county, a political embodiment of its citizens and inhabitants, must always act in the public interest and for the general good. Wow! Read that second one again! Larry Hellmann, President National Congress for Fathers and Children 120 Cal.App.4th 246, 14 Cal.Rptr.3d 905 Court of Appeal, Second District, Division 8. COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES, Plaintiff and Respondent, v. Manuel NAVARRO, Defendant and Appellant. No. B155166. June 30, 2004. Background: After blood tests proved that man was not father of two boys, man moved to set aside default judgment establishing his parental relationship and ordering him to pay support. The Superior Court, Los Angeles County, No. BY119238, James B. Copelan, Temporary Judge, denied man's motion. He appealed. Holding: The Court of Appeal, Rubin, J., held that man was entitled to relief from default. Reversed. **906 *247 Linda S. Ferrer for Defendant and Appellant. Steve Cooley, District Attorney; Phillip Browning, Director, L. Cruz, Deputy Director, Nancy K. Ruffolo, Attorney in Charge, and Fesia A. Davenport, Staff Attorney, Child Support Services Department, for Plaintiff and Respondent. RUBIN, J. Manuel Navarro appeals from the trial court's denial of his motion to vacate a default judgment entered against him in 1996. The judgment established his parental relationship with two boys whom respondent County of Los Angeles now concedes are not his sons, and ordered him to pay child support. He seeks reimbursement of child support, welfare reimbursements, attorneys fees, and costs. We reverse. *248 FACTS AND PROCEDURAL HISTORY In March 1996, the Bureau of Family Support Operations in the District Attorney's Office [FN1] (the County) filed a complaint to establish the paternity and child support obligations of "Manuel Nava" for two boys born in December 1995 who had been receiving public assistance. The County attempted substitute service of the complaint in May 1996 by leaving a copy at appellant's address with "Jane Doe," listed as "sister" and "co-tenant" and serving a copy by first class mail. The complaint alerted appellant of the danger of not answering the complaint if he denied paternity, and warned he could become liable for child support if the court determined he was the boys' father. Appellant did not answer the complaint and the County took his default in July 1996. The court thereafter entered judgment establishing appellant's paternity and ordered him to pay $247 in monthly child support. FN1. Pursuant to Family Code section 17304, on July 1, 2001, the County of Los Angeles Child Support Services Department replaced the District Attorney's Bureau of Family Support Operations as the County agency charged with establishing parentage, obtaining and enforcing orders for support. Five years later in July 2001 appellant filed a motion to set aside the judgment and have his answer deemed filed because a recent genetic blood test indisputably proved he was not the boys' father. He claimed that although he lived at the address cited on the complaint's proof of service, and he never attempted to avoid service, he nonetheless never received a copy of the summons and complaint or default judgment. In support of his motion, he noted that blood tests in a separate paternity action in San Bernardino County had conclusively proven a few months earlier that he was not the boys' father. Based on those tests, San Bernardino County authorities had dismissed their paternity suit against him with prejudice. Acknowledging the six-month period for setting aside the judgment under Code of Civil Procedure section 473 had long passed, he argued relief was nevertheless proper because the boys' mother had committed extrinsic fraud in asserting he was the father when in fact he was not, thus depriving him of a fair adversarial hearing. The County opposed the motion, arguing appellant had not shown extrinsic fraud or mistake. According to the County, the **907 mother's mere assertion that he was the father was insufficient to establish extrinsic fraud. Apparently agreeing with the County, the court denied appellant's motion to set aside the judgment. This appeal followed. DISCUSSION By strict application of the law, appellant should be denied relief. He did not file his motion to set aside the County's default judgment *249 against him until five years after its entry, long past the maximum six months allowed for setting aside a default judgment. (Code Civ. Proc., § 473, subd. (b).) Furthermore, appellant cannot win relief under the doctrine of extrinsic fraud because mother's false assertion that he was the boys' father is not the sort of falsehood the doctrine encompasses. (See, e.g., Kachig v. Boothe (1971) 22 Cal.App.3d 626, 632-633, 99 Cal.Rptr. 393.) In sum, a narrow, technical reading of the controlling case law and statutes, with their emphasis on the public interest in the finality of judgments, suggests the trial court ruled correctly. Sometimes even more important policies than the finality of judgments are at stake, however. Mistakes do happen, and a profound mistake occurred here when appellant was charged with being the boys' father, an error the County concedes. Instead of remedying its mistake, the County retreats behind the procedural redoubt offered by the passage of time since it took appellant's default. [FN2] FN2. We recognize that finality and certainty assume greater importance when the issue is paternity in a long-standing parent-child relationship, for then the child's psychological well being is at stake. Here, however, the issue is solely the cold-hard cash of child support, as appellant has always denied paternity and has no relationship with the boys. In this dispute over money, the greater equities lie with appellant, who has no relationship with the boys, than with the County, whose obligation to the general welfare compelled it to support the boys when their real father did not. It is this state's policy that when a mistake occurs in a child support action, the County must correct it, not exploit it. When the Legislature enacted the Child Support Enforcement Fairness Act of 2000, it declared "The efficient and fair enforcement of child support orders is essential to ensuring compliance with those orders and respect for the administration of justice.... Thousands of individuals each year are mistakenly identified as being liable for child support actions. As a result of that action, the ability to earn a living is severely impaired, assets are seized, and family relationships are often destroyed. It is the moral, legal, and ethical obligation of all enforcement agencies to take prompt action to recognize those cases where a person is mistakenly identified as a support obligor in order to minimize the harm and correct any injustice to that person." (Stats.1999, ch. 653 (A.B.380), italics added.) The County, a political embodiment of its citizens and inhabitants, must always act in the public interest and for the general good. It should not enforce child support judgments it knows to be unfounded. And in particular, it should not ask the courts to assist it in doing so. Despite the Legislature's clear directive that child support agencies not pursue mistaken child support actions, the County persists in asking that we do so. We will not sully our *250 hands by participating in an unjust, and factually unfounded, result. We say no to the County, and we reverse. DISPOSITION The order denying appellant's motion to set aside the default judgment is reversed. **908 Each side to bear their own costs on appeal. We concur: COOPER, P.J., and BOLAND, J. Cal.App. 2 Dist.,2004. County of Los Angeles v. Navarro 120 Cal.App.4th 246, 14 Cal.Rptr.3d 905, 4 Cal. Daily Op. Serv. 5951, 2004 Daily Journal D.A.R. 8069 ===== Larry Hellmann, President National Congress for Fathers and Children 550 West Vista Way, Suite 404 Vista, CA 92083 (760) 758-0268; Fax - 758-9557 I don't see in your post any details about the actual decision refusing the request to depublish Navarro. However, I did some searching and there is a reference to the refusal on page 3 of this newsletter: http://www.gbhlaw.com/gbhlawdaily_11_11_04.pdf |
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"Kenneth S." wrote in message ... What has happened now in this case is that the California Supreme Court has refused to review a decision of the Court of Appeal, Second District, thus protecting a man in a paternity fraud situation. But will he get his money back? I very much doubt it. ------------------ I doubt if he gets his money back either. ------------------- The Court of Appeal decision may have value as a precedent. So it MAY be good news. However, consider the following. There is a reference in the court decision to the fact that "strict application of the law" would prevent the man from getting relief from the child support order because he waited five years before seeking it. In other words, California law ALLOWS the mother to perpetrate paternity fraud in order to get money from this man, and ALLOWS the County of Los Angeles to help her to do so. The judges simply ignored the terms of the law, because the facts of this case were so outrageous. The judges' ruling in this case undoubtedly reflected natural justice. However, I do not believe that in general judges should be allowed to disregard the plain meaning and intention of the law. Their jobs should not be to decide what they think should be in the law. In one sense this ruling is only another illustration of the fact that judges are one of the biggest categories of scofflaws in the U.S. The answer is to change the law -- not to rely on the hope that other judges will follow this precedent, which appears to be based on nothing other than the gut feelings of these judges. ------------- That's what I thought as well. That the law could be on the books in such a way as to srew any man in this situation. Let's hope the 'gut feeling' of this judge will allow other judges to make similar rulings. But bottom line, the law needs to be changed. I don't think even a man who has acted as father and then learns he is not the bio dad should have to pay support. The mother knew there was the possibility of other fathers yet didn't disclose it is still fraudulent to me and in an ideal world she would have to pay for her actions. In an ideal world. ~AZ~ "AZ Astrea" wrote in message ... I hope this is really as good as it sounds! ~AZ~ Posted from another group: Recently in California, the Supreme Court has allowed a decision to stand regarding the overturning of paternity fraud. I have copies of the actual briefs filed in the case ready for similar use in other states and jurisdictions. The County of Los Angeles moved to have the Supreme Court depublish the case in order to deprive its use as precedent. What is important is that the decision states that although the statutory time for default set aside had passed, the law required the default to be set aside and that the County is obligated to act for the public good. This has been a long time coming and many individuals and groups acted in concert and rose to the occasion to prevent the depublication of the decision. Hooray for working together to accomplish what any one of us could not have done on our own. For the edification of the reader, below is the actual decision. There are two important decisions therein: 1) Man who was proved not to be father of two boys was entitled to relief from default judgment establishing his parental relationship and ordering him to pay support, even though his motion for relief was untimely, and any fraud on mother's part did not entitle him to relief; family law required county to correct child support mistakes, and man always denied being father and never established relationship with boys. West's Ann.Cal.C.C.P. § 473(b); and, 2) A county, a political embodiment of its citizens and inhabitants, must always act in the public interest and for the general good. Wow! Read that second one again! Larry Hellmann, President National Congress for Fathers and Children 120 Cal.App.4th 246, 14 Cal.Rptr.3d 905 Court of Appeal, Second District, Division 8. COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES, Plaintiff and Respondent, v. Manuel NAVARRO, Defendant and Appellant. No. B155166. June 30, 2004. Background: After blood tests proved that man was not father of two boys, man moved to set aside default judgment establishing his parental relationship and ordering him to pay support. The Superior Court, Los Angeles County, No. BY119238, James B. Copelan, Temporary Judge, denied man's motion. He appealed. Holding: The Court of Appeal, Rubin, J., held that man was entitled to relief from default. Reversed. **906 *247 Linda S. Ferrer for Defendant and Appellant. Steve Cooley, District Attorney; Phillip Browning, Director, L. Cruz, Deputy Director, Nancy K. Ruffolo, Attorney in Charge, and Fesia A. Davenport, Staff Attorney, Child Support Services Department, for Plaintiff and Respondent. RUBIN, J. Manuel Navarro appeals from the trial court's denial of his motion to vacate a default judgment entered against him in 1996. The judgment established his parental relationship with two boys whom respondent County of Los Angeles now concedes are not his sons, and ordered him to pay child support. He seeks reimbursement of child support, welfare reimbursements, attorneys fees, and costs. We reverse. *248 FACTS AND PROCEDURAL HISTORY In March 1996, the Bureau of Family Support Operations in the District Attorney's Office [FN1] (the County) filed a complaint to establish the paternity and child support obligations of "Manuel Nava" for two boys born in December 1995 who had been receiving public assistance. The County attempted substitute service of the complaint in May 1996 by leaving a copy at appellant's address with "Jane Doe," listed as "sister" and "co-tenant" and serving a copy by first class mail. The complaint alerted appellant of the danger of not answering the complaint if he denied paternity, and warned he could become liable for child support if the court determined he was the boys' father. Appellant did not answer the complaint and the County took his default in July 1996. The court thereafter entered judgment establishing appellant's paternity and ordered him to pay $247 in monthly child support. FN1. Pursuant to Family Code section 17304, on July 1, 2001, the County of Los Angeles Child Support Services Department replaced the District Attorney's Bureau of Family Support Operations as the County agency charged with establishing parentage, obtaining and enforcing orders for support. Five years later in July 2001 appellant filed a motion to set aside the judgment and have his answer deemed filed because a recent genetic blood test indisputably proved he was not the boys' father. He claimed that although he lived at the address cited on the complaint's proof of service, and he never attempted to avoid service, he nonetheless never received a copy of the summons and complaint or default judgment. In support of his motion, he noted that blood tests in a separate paternity action in San Bernardino County had conclusively proven a few months earlier that he was not the boys' father. Based on those tests, San Bernardino County authorities had dismissed their paternity suit against him with prejudice. Acknowledging the six-month period for setting aside the judgment under Code of Civil Procedure section 473 had long passed, he argued relief was nevertheless proper because the boys' mother had committed extrinsic fraud in asserting he was the father when in fact he was not, thus depriving him of a fair adversarial hearing. The County opposed the motion, arguing appellant had not shown extrinsic fraud or mistake. According to the County, the **907 mother's mere assertion that he was the father was insufficient to establish extrinsic fraud. Apparently agreeing with the County, the court denied appellant's motion to set aside the judgment. This appeal followed. DISCUSSION By strict application of the law, appellant should be denied relief. He did not file his motion to set aside the County's default judgment *249 against him until five years after its entry, long past the maximum six months allowed for setting aside a default judgment. (Code Civ. Proc., § 473, subd. (b).) Furthermore, appellant cannot win relief under the doctrine of extrinsic fraud because mother's false assertion that he was the boys' father is not the sort of falsehood the doctrine encompasses. (See, e.g., Kachig v. Boothe (1971) 22 Cal.App.3d 626, 632-633, 99 Cal.Rptr. 393.) In sum, a narrow, technical reading of the controlling case law and statutes, with their emphasis on the public interest in the finality of judgments, suggests the trial court ruled correctly. Sometimes even more important policies than the finality of judgments are at stake, however. Mistakes do happen, and a profound mistake occurred here when appellant was charged with being the boys' father, an error the County concedes. Instead of remedying its mistake, the County retreats behind the procedural redoubt offered by the passage of time since it took appellant's default. [FN2] FN2. We recognize that finality and certainty assume greater importance when the issue is paternity in a long-standing parent-child relationship, for then the child's psychological well being is at stake. Here, however, the issue is solely the cold-hard cash of child support, as appellant has always denied paternity and has no relationship with the boys. In this dispute over money, the greater equities lie with appellant, who has no relationship with the boys, than with the County, whose obligation to the general welfare compelled it to support the boys when their real father did not. It is this state's policy that when a mistake occurs in a child support action, the County must correct it, not exploit it. When the Legislature enacted the Child Support Enforcement Fairness Act of 2000, it declared "The efficient and fair enforcement of child support orders is essential to ensuring compliance with those orders and respect for the administration of justice.... Thousands of individuals each year are mistakenly identified as being liable for child support actions. As a result of that action, the ability to earn a living is severely impaired, assets are seized, and family relationships are often destroyed. It is the moral, legal, and ethical obligation of all enforcement agencies to take prompt action to recognize those cases where a person is mistakenly identified as a support obligor in order to minimize the harm and correct any injustice to that person." (Stats.1999, ch. 653 (A.B.380), italics added.) The County, a political embodiment of its citizens and inhabitants, must always act in the public interest and for the general good. It should not enforce child support judgments it knows to be unfounded. And in particular, it should not ask the courts to assist it in doing so. Despite the Legislature's clear directive that child support agencies not pursue mistaken child support actions, the County persists in asking that we do so. We will not sully our *250 hands by participating in an unjust, and factually unfounded, result. We say no to the County, and we reverse. DISPOSITION The order denying appellant's motion to set aside the default judgment is reversed. **908 Each side to bear their own costs on appeal. We concur: COOPER, P.J., and BOLAND, J. Cal.App. 2 Dist.,2004. County of Los Angeles v. Navarro 120 Cal.App.4th 246, 14 Cal.Rptr.3d 905, 4 Cal. Daily Op. Serv. 5951, 2004 Daily Journal D.A.R. 8069 ===== Larry Hellmann, President National Congress for Fathers and Children 550 West Vista Way, Suite 404 Vista, CA 92083 (760) 758-0268; Fax - 758-9557 |
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"JayR" wrote in message ... AZ Astrea wrote: I hope this is really as good as it sounds! ~AZ~ Posted from another group: Recently in California, the Supreme Court has allowed a decision to stand regarding the overturning of paternity fraud. I have copies of the actual briefs filed in the case ready for similar use in other states and jurisdictions. The County of Los Angeles moved to have the Supreme Court depublish the case in order to deprive its use as precedent. What is important is that the decision states that although the statutory time for default set aside had passed, the law required the default to be set aside and that the County is obligated to act for the public good. This has been a long time coming and many individuals and groups acted in concert and rose to the occasion to prevent the depublication of the decision. Hooray for working together to accomplish what any one of us could not have done on our own. For the edification of the reader, below is the actual decision. There are two important decisions therein: 1) Man who was proved not to be father of two boys was entitled to relief from default judgment establishing his parental relationship and ordering him to pay support, even though his motion for relief was untimely, and any fraud on mother's part did not entitle him to relief; family law required county to correct child support mistakes, and man always denied being father and never established relationship with boys. West's Ann.Cal.C.C.P. § 473(b); and, 2) A county, a political embodiment of its citizens and inhabitants, must always act in the public interest and for the general good. Wow! Read that second one again! Larry Hellmann, President National Congress for Fathers and Children 120 Cal.App.4th 246, 14 Cal.Rptr.3d 905 Court of Appeal, Second District, Division 8. COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES, Plaintiff and Respondent, v. Manuel NAVARRO, Defendant and Appellant. No. B155166. June 30, 2004. Background: After blood tests proved that man was not father of two boys, man moved to set aside default judgment establishing his parental relationship and ordering him to pay support. The Superior Court, Los Angeles County, No. BY119238, James B. Copelan, Temporary Judge, denied man's motion. He appealed. Holding: The Court of Appeal, Rubin, J., held that man was entitled to relief from default. Reversed. **906 *247 Linda S. Ferrer for Defendant and Appellant. Steve Cooley, District Attorney; Phillip Browning, Director, L. Cruz, Deputy Director, Nancy K. Ruffolo, Attorney in Charge, and Fesia A. Davenport, Staff Attorney, Child Support Services Department, for Plaintiff and Respondent. RUBIN, J. Manuel Navarro appeals from the trial court's denial of his motion to vacate a default judgment entered against him in 1996. The judgment established his parental relationship with two boys whom respondent County of Los Angeles now concedes are not his sons, and ordered him to pay child support. He seeks reimbursement of child support, welfare reimbursements, attorneys fees, and costs. We reverse. *248 FACTS AND PROCEDURAL HISTORY In March 1996, the Bureau of Family Support Operations in the District Attorney's Office [FN1] (the County) filed a complaint to establish the paternity and child support obligations of "Manuel Nava" for two boys born in December 1995 who had been receiving public assistance. The County attempted substitute service of the complaint in May 1996 by leaving a copy at appellant's address with "Jane Doe," listed as "sister" and "co-tenant" and serving a copy by first class mail. The complaint alerted appellant of the danger of not answering the complaint if he denied paternity, and warned he could become liable for child support if the court determined he was the boys' father. Appellant did not answer the complaint and the County took his default in July 1996. The court thereafter entered judgment establishing appellant's paternity and ordered him to pay $247 in monthly child support. FN1. Pursuant to Family Code section 17304, on July 1, 2001, the County of Los Angeles Child Support Services Department replaced the District Attorney's Bureau of Family Support Operations as the County agency charged with establishing parentage, obtaining and enforcing orders for support. Five years later in July 2001 appellant filed a motion to set aside the judgment and have his answer deemed filed because a recent genetic blood test indisputably proved he was not the boys' father. He claimed that although he lived at the address cited on the complaint's proof of service, and he never attempted to avoid service, he nonetheless never received a copy of the summons and complaint or default judgment. In support of his motion, he noted that blood tests in a separate paternity action in San Bernardino County had conclusively proven a few months earlier that he was not the boys' father. Based on those tests, San Bernardino County authorities had dismissed their paternity suit against him with prejudice. Acknowledging the six-month period for setting aside the judgment under Code of Civil Procedure section 473 had long passed, he argued relief was nevertheless proper because the boys' mother had committed extrinsic fraud in asserting he was the father when in fact he was not, thus depriving him of a fair adversarial hearing. The County opposed the motion, arguing appellant had not shown extrinsic fraud or mistake. According to the County, the **907 mother's mere assertion that he was the father was insufficient to establish extrinsic fraud. Apparently agreeing with the County, the court denied appellant's motion to set aside the judgment. This appeal followed. DISCUSSION By strict application of the law, appellant should be denied relief. He did not file his motion to set aside the County's default judgment *249 against him until five years after its entry, long past the maximum six months allowed for setting aside a default judgment. (Code Civ. Proc., § 473, subd. (b).) Furthermore, appellant cannot win relief under the doctrine of extrinsic fraud because mother's false assertion that he was the boys' father is not the sort of falsehood the doctrine encompasses. (See, e.g., Kachig v. Boothe (1971) 22 Cal.App.3d 626, 632-633, 99 Cal.Rptr. 393.) In sum, a narrow, technical reading of the controlling case law and statutes, with their emphasis on the public interest in the finality of judgments, suggests the trial court ruled correctly. Sometimes even more important policies than the finality of judgments are at stake, however. Mistakes do happen, and a profound mistake occurred here when appellant was charged with being the boys' father, an error the County concedes. Instead of remedying its mistake, the County retreats behind the procedural redoubt offered by the passage of time since it took appellant's default. [FN2] FN2. We recognize that finality and certainty assume greater importance when the issue is paternity in a long-standing parent-child relationship, for then the child's psychological well being is at stake. Here, however, the issue is solely the cold-hard cash of child support, as appellant has always denied paternity and has no relationship with the boys. In this dispute over money, the greater equities lie with appellant, who has no relationship with the boys, than with the County, whose obligation to the general welfare compelled it to support the boys when their real father did not. It is this state's policy that when a mistake occurs in a child support action, the County must correct it, not exploit it. When the Legislature enacted the Child Support Enforcement Fairness Act of 2000, it declared "The efficient and fair enforcement of child support orders is essential to ensuring compliance with those orders and respect for the administration of justice.... Thousands of individuals each year are mistakenly identified as being liable for child support actions. As a result of that action, the ability to earn a living is severely impaired, assets are seized, and family relationships are often destroyed. It is the moral, legal, and ethical obligation of all enforcement agencies to take prompt action to recognize those cases where a person is mistakenly identified as a support obligor in order to minimize the harm and correct any injustice to that person." (Stats.1999, ch. 653 (A.B.380), italics added.) The County, a political embodiment of its citizens and inhabitants, must always act in the public interest and for the general good. It should not enforce child support judgments it knows to be unfounded. And in particular, it should not ask the courts to assist it in doing so. Despite the Legislature's clear directive that child support agencies not pursue mistaken child support actions, the County persists in asking that we do so. We will not sully our *250 hands by participating in an unjust, and factually unfounded, result. We say no to the County, and we reverse. DISPOSITION The order denying appellant's motion to set aside the default judgment is reversed. **908 Each side to bear their own costs on appeal. We concur: COOPER, P.J., and BOLAND, J. Cal.App. 2 Dist.,2004. County of Los Angeles v. Navarro 120 Cal.App.4th 246, 14 Cal.Rptr.3d 905, 4 Cal. Daily Op. Serv. 5951, 2004 Daily Journal D.A.R. 8069 ===== Larry Hellmann, President National Congress for Fathers and Children 550 West Vista Way, Suite 404 Vista, CA 92083 (760) 758-0268; Fax - 758-9557 I don't see in your post any details about the actual decision refusing the request to depublish Navarro. However, I did some searching and there is a reference to the refusal on page 3 of this newsletter: http://www.gbhlaw.com/gbhlawdaily_11_11_04.pdf -------------------- So they did refuse the request to depublish it. And it can be cited in other cases. Yippee! ~AZ~ |
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AZ Astrea wrote: "JayR" wrote in message ... AZ Astrea wrote: I don't see in your post any details about the actual decision refusing the request to depublish Navarro. However, I did some searching and there is a reference to the refusal on page 3 of this newsletter: http://www.gbhlaw.com/gbhlawdaily_11_11_04.pdf -------------------- So they did refuse the request to depublish it. And it can be cited in other cases. Yippee! I still don't see it from looking at the given website. Can you point out what I am missing? I am putting together a packet of information for my honors class to look at concerning the justification of "men's rights groups", since they came up in discussion today about women's rights and the abolitionist movement right before the civil war in US History. Thanks! - Ron ^*^ |
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I can't copy and paste because I don't have Adobe or whatever but it's on
the top of the 3rd page, the last two paragraphs before Top Stories From Today's LA Daily Journal Online. Hope this helps. ~AZ~ "Werebat" wrote in message news:AF9nd.45$T02.2@lakeread06... AZ Astrea wrote: "JayR" wrote in message ... AZ Astrea wrote: I don't see in your post any details about the actual decision refusing the request to depublish Navarro. However, I did some searching and there is a reference to the refusal on page 3 of this newsletter: http://www.gbhlaw.com/gbhlawdaily_11_11_04.pdf -------------------- So they did refuse the request to depublish it. And it can be cited in other cases. Yippee! I still don't see it from looking at the given website. Can you point out what I am missing? I am putting together a packet of information for my honors class to look at concerning the justification of "men's rights groups", since they came up in discussion today about women's rights and the abolitionist movement right before the civil war in US History. Thanks! - Ron ^*^ |
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