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#11
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"Beware of Vaccine Bullies"--Malkin column
"Roger Schlafly" wrote in message .net...
"Mark" wrote The author's entire thesis appears to be about the unfairness of the doctor kicking her kid out of his practice. She referred to it as a "threat". Nowhere does she say that was unfair. Her complaint was that the ped was trying to pressure her into getting vaccines that she didn't want. The Ped said, "I don't want to be your kid's doctor if you choose not to get him fully immunized." Then this author up and writes a huffy article entitled "Beware the Vaccine Bullies". It's a choice thing, not a coercion thing. Your wife might say that she'll divorce you and take the kids if you cheat on her. Does this mean that you are being "coerced" into fidelity, or does it mean that you choose to keep your pants zipped because you'd rather not face the consequences of making a stupid choice? For a libertarian-minded person such as yourself (and JG), this seems like a pretty simple concept. Mark, MD |
#12
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"Beware of Vaccine Bullies"--Malkin column
"Mark" wrote in message
om... "JG" wrote in message ... [...] Scaremonger. The likelihood of an infant/child who has diligent parents and is not subjected to to "high risk" persons--e.g., the Malkins' son--contracting hep B is no doubt so ridiculously small as to be laughable. *I'm* the scaremonger? That's a laugh. The other vectors *aren't identified*. How you know that you're being diligent in protecting your child against these vectors if you don't even know what they are? Hep B is transmitted via body fluids; ergo, diligent parents will make sure their infant/child isn't engaging in unprotected sex, sharing needles, or being exposed to the body fluids of others (of unknown hep B status) in other ways. Why should the doctor be compelled to keep a patient whose parents don't follow his recommendations? Who said, or even suggested, he should? The author's entire thesis appears to be about the unfairness of the doctor kicking her kid out of his practice. She referred to it as a "threat". Huh? Her "entire thesis" is that parents are pressured to get what, for them, are unnecessary vaccines! (A subthesis is that pediatricians are unthinking parrots.) She didn't say anything about "unfairness." I've no doubt that the Malkins, as libertarians, agree that a physician has the right to refuse to treat anyone. As for "threat," my dictionary's (Am. Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th ed.) first definition for it is "An expression of an intention to inflict pain, injury, evil, or punishment." I don't doubt that the Malkins' pediatician, if he's as egotistical as many I've encountered, felt that they'd somehow be pained/punished if they "defected"! I can tell you *I'm* in no hurry to take care of a kid with Hib meningitis, nor invasive pneumococcal disease nor pertussis. This author is free to find a doctor who will allow her daffy decisions to usurp his training and better sense. No one is holding a gun to her head to *make* her get her child vaccinated; why does she have her panties in a twist because this particular doctor won't play her game? It doesn't sound to me like she has "her panties in a twist" at all. What did she write that gave you the impression she was bothered by having to engage a pediatrician more amenable to her views? Sure, she's "bitter" and obviously ticked off by the doctor's condescending attitude (good for her!), but I would think she's more than happy to find another pediatrician What did she write? Let's see...the "coercion", her "bitterness", calling the Hep B "politically correct", being "threatened"...the fact that she even bothered to write an entire article in the first place leads me to believe she has a bee in her bonnet over this issue. She's undoubtedly (and justifiably) concerned that *all* parents are being pushed to have their kids vaccinated against a disease that isn't widespread among their contacts or easily (relative to most of the diseases for which kids are vaccinated) contracted, one that's simple to avoid by taking other (simple) precautions. It's called choice: She chose not to have her child fully immunized...the doctor chose not to have her child as a patient. Pretty straighforward, I say. Yes. So? Looks like both parties will get what they want. Exactly. Again, so? Sounds like you're the one whose shorts are knotted, Mark... |
#13
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"Beware of Vaccine Bullies"--Malkin column
"JG" wrote
Huh? Her "entire thesis" is that parents are pressured to get what, for them, are unnecessary vaccines! (A subthesis is that pediatricians are unthinking parrots.) She didn't say anything about "unfairness." And Mark's attitude supports her point. Mark is one of those peds who gets personally offended when a patient asks for the facts, instead of just shutting up and blindly taking his orders. |
#14
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"Beware of Vaccine Bullies"--Malkin column
"JG" wrote in message ...
"Mark" wrote in message om... "JG" wrote in message ... [...] Scaremonger. The likelihood of an infant/child who has diligent parents and is not subjected to to "high risk" persons--e.g., the Malkins' son--contracting hep B is no doubt so ridiculously small as to be laughable. *I'm* the scaremonger? That's a laugh. The other vectors *aren't identified*. How you know that you're being diligent in protecting your child against these vectors if you don't even know what they are? Hep B is transmitted via body fluids; ergo, diligent parents will make sure their infant/child isn't engaging in unprotected sex, sharing needles, or being exposed to the body fluids of others (of unknown hep B status) in other ways. You missed (or ignored) my contention that 30-40% of childhood Hep B infections are NOT found to be linked to blood or body fluid contact. It might be mosquitoes, but that hasn't been proven yet. It might be a fecal-oral route, but that hasn't been proven yet. It might be little green men with invisible hypodermic needles, but that hasn't been proven yet. The point is, about a third of childhood Hep B infections have no identifiable vector, therefore the author's assertion, and yours, that there is no need of protection is errant. Mark, MD |
#15
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"Beware of Vaccine Bullies"--Malkin column
"Mark" wrote in message
om... "JG" wrote in message ... "Mark" wrote in message om... "JG" wrote in message ... [...] Scaremonger. The likelihood of an infant/child who has diligent parents and is not subjected to to "high risk" persons--e.g., the Malkins' son--contracting hep B is no doubt so ridiculously small as to be laughable. *I'm* the scaremonger? That's a laugh. The other vectors *aren't identified*. How you know that you're being diligent in protecting your child against these vectors if you don't even know what they are? Hep B is transmitted via body fluids; ergo, diligent parents will make sure their infant/child isn't engaging in unprotected sex, sharing needles, or being exposed to the body fluids of others (of unknown hep B status) in other ways. You missed (or ignored) my contention that 30-40% of childhood Hep B infections are NOT found to be linked to blood or body fluid contact. Not at all; see below. It might be mosquitoes, but that hasn't been proven yet. It might be a fecal-oral route, but that hasn't been proven yet. It might be little green men with invisible hypodermic needles, but that hasn't been proven yet. The point is, about a third of childhood Hep B infections have no identifiable vector, therefore the author's assertion, and yours, that there is no need of protection is errant. No *identified* vector; not "no *identifiable*" vector. I think it's highly probable that infected infants/children were exposed, likely on a regular basis, to an infected individual, and it's entirely possible *that* individual was unaware that he/she was a carrier. |
#16
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"Beware of Vaccine Bullies"--Malkin column
On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 10:32:03 -0700, "JG" wrote:
Hep B is transmitted via body fluids; ergo, diligent parents will make sure their infant/child isn't engaging in unprotected sex, sharing needles, or being exposed to the body fluids of others (of unknown hep B status) in other ways. So they'll just go to the library instead the playground at recess? |
#17
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"Beware of Vaccine Bullies"--Malkin column
"PF Riley" wrote
Hep B is transmitted via body fluids; ergo, diligent parents will make sure their infant/child isn't engaging in unprotected sex, sharing needles, or being exposed to the body fluids of others (of unknown hep B status) in other ways. So they'll just go to the library instead the playground at recess? Is there more unprotected sex at recess than at the library? |
#18
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"Beware of Vaccine Bullies"--Malkin column
"PF Riley" wrote in message
... On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 10:32:03 -0700, "JG" wrote: Hep B is transmitted via body fluids; ergo, diligent parents will make sure their infant/child isn't engaging in unprotected sex, sharing needles, or being exposed to the body fluids of others (of unknown hep B status) in other ways. So they'll just go to the library instead the playground at recess? I dunno; someone here--D.C. Sessions, IIRC--used to claim that there were documented cases of transmission via paper cuts! g (If you, or anyone else, can provide such documentation, I'd love to see it. D.C., or whoever it was that made the assertion, never did when asked.) Just what goes takes place on your schools' playgrounds, PF? Orgies? Group piercings? Tattooing? If you can find a verified, documented case of "recess transmission," please point me to it. Certainly if an instance of "blood swapping" did occur, post-exposure prophylaxis could be considered/initiated. |
#19
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"Beware of Vaccine Bullies"--Malkin column
"JG" wrote in message ... (...) If you can find a verified, documented case of "recess transmission," please point me to it. Certainly if an instance of "blood swapping" did occur, post-exposure prophylaxis could be considered/initiated. If the kids or adults present realized the danger of the situation, the doctors involved agreed, and weighed the benefits and risks of the post-exposure prophylaxis and felt that the benefits outweight the risks. And then, only if the parents agreed and consented. I doubt this would happen much. Jeff |
#20
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"Beware of Vaccine Bullies"--Malkin column
"JG" wrote in message ...
"PF Riley" wrote in message ... On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 10:32:03 -0700, "JG" wrote: Hep B is transmitted via body fluids; ergo, diligent parents will make sure their infant/child isn't engaging in unprotected sex, sharing needles, or being exposed to the body fluids of others (of unknown hep B status) in other ways. So they'll just go to the library instead the playground at recess? I dunno; someone here--D.C. Sessions, IIRC--used to claim that there were documented cases of transmission via paper cuts! g (If you, or anyone else, can provide such documentation, I'd love to see it. D.C., or whoever it was that made the assertion, never did when asked.) Just what goes takes place on your schools' playgrounds, PF? Orgies? Group piercings? Tattooing? Biting? If you can find a verified, documented case of "recess transmission," please point me to it. Certainly if an instance of "blood swapping" did occur, post-exposure prophylaxis could be considered/initiated. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract : Pediatr Infect Dis J. 1989 Dec;8(12):870-5. Related Articles, Links Hepatitis B virus transmission between children in day care. Shapiro CN, McCaig LF, Gensheimer KF, Levy ME, Stoddard JJ, Kane MA, Hadler SC. Hepatitis Branch, Centers for Disease Control, Atlanta, GA 30333. We investigated two situations involving hepatitis B virus exposure among children in day care. In the first a 4-year-old boy who attended a day care center developed acute hepatitis B; another child at the center, who had a history of aggressive behavior (biting/scratching), was subsequently found to be a hepatitis B carrier. No other source of infection among family and other contacts was identified and no other persons at the center became infected. In the second situation a 4-year-old boy with frequently bleeding eczematous lesions was discovered to be a hepatitis B carrier after having attended a day care center for 17 months. Testing of contacts at the center revealed no transmission to other children or staff (representing 887 person months of exposure). Nationwide surveillance data showed that for the period 1983 to 1987, 161 children 1 to 4 years of age were reported with acute hepatitis B. After children with known hepatitis B risk factors were excluded, 25% (7 of 28) of children with known day care status were reported as day care attendees, a percentage comparable to national estimates of day care attendance by this age group. This is the first reported case of hepatitis B virus transmission between children in day care in the United States. Although it appears that day care transmission of hepatitis B is infrequent, further studies are needed to define the risk more accurately. |
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