Need grammar, spelling help

On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 06:32:05 -0400, Clisby wrote:

toypup wrote:
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 19:43:09 -0400, Clisby wrote:


toypup wrote:

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:29:42 -0500, Tori M wrote:


My son learned this in kindergarten and I remember learning it in first
grade. Vowel-consonant-vowel = long vowel. Vowel-consonant-consonant =
short vowel.

Desert? Metal? Visit?

Clisby


There are exceptions to every rule.

There are so many exceptions to the two you've stated above that
I'm not sure they should be considered rules - I certainly wouldn't call
them useful rules.

The rules help the child past the first hurdles in reading. It worked well
enough for me and my child that I don't have any problems with it. I do
remember using that rule myself for quite some time. Once the reading is
more fluent, we can move away from the rules.

I agree that by age 9, the child should be past learning all the phonics
rules, but if it is a rule that was missed that would help a child read
more fluently, I think it's worth going over. If the child did not have a
good reading program to begin with, maybe the child can spend some time
going over things that were missed before moving on.

This is what I think the problem is. I do not believe she was doing
work on grade level for reading and this year the new curriculum assumes
that she IS at grade level.

Tori

toypup wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 06:32:05 -0400, Clisby wrote:


toypup wrote:

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 19:43:09 -0400, Clisby wrote:



toypup wrote:


On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:29:42 -0500, Tori M wrote:


My son learned this in kindergarten and I remember learning it in first
grade. Vowel-consonant-vowel = long vowel. Vowel-consonant-consonant =
short vowel.

Desert? Metal? Visit?

Clisby


There are exceptions to every rule.

There are so many exceptions to the two you've stated above that
I'm not sure they should be considered rules - I certainly wouldn't call
them useful rules.


The rules help the child past the first hurdles in reading. It worked well
enough for me and my child that I don't have any problems with it. I do
remember using that rule myself for quite some time. Once the reading is
more fluent, we can move away from the rules.

Tori is talking about a *9-year-old*. The "rules" you mention might
work as a very rough rule of thumb for kindergarten kids, but by the
time a child is 9 years old, what good could they possibly be?
(Assuming this is a regular old normally intelligent child.)

Clisby

On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 17:18:26 -0400, Clisby wrote:

toypup wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 06:32:05 -0400, Clisby wrote:


toypup wrote:

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 19:43:09 -0400, Clisby wrote:



toypup wrote:


On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:29:42 -0500, Tori M wrote:


My son learned this in kindergarten and I remember learning it in first
grade. Vowel-consonant-vowel = long vowel. Vowel-consonant-consonant =
short vowel.

Desert? Metal? Visit?

Clisby


There are exceptions to every rule.

There are so many exceptions to the two you've stated above that
I'm not sure they should be considered rules - I certainly wouldn't call
them useful rules.


The rules help the child past the first hurdles in reading. It worked well
enough for me and my child that I don't have any problems with it. I do
remember using that rule myself for quite some time. Once the reading is
more fluent, we can move away from the rules.

Tori is talking about a *9-year-old*. The "rules" you mention might
work as a very rough rule of thumb for kindergarten kids, but by the
time a child is 9 years old, what good could they possibly be?
(Assuming this is a regular old normally intelligent child.)

Clisby

It wouldn't be of use to a 9 yo who is a fluent reader (and most 9 yo's are
fluent readers), but a 9 yo who hasn't learned to read properly could use
it.

On Aug 19, 2:18 pm, Clisby wrote:
toypup wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 06:32:05 -0400, Clisby wrote:

toypup wrote:

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 19:43:09 -0400, Clisby wrote:

toypup wrote:

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:29:42 -0500, Tori M wrote:

My son learned this in kindergarten and I remember learning it in first
grade. Vowel-consonant-vowel = long vowel. Vowel-consonant-consonant =
short vowel.

Desert? Metal? Visit?

Clisby

There are exceptions to every rule.

There are so many exceptions to the two you've stated above that
I'm not sure they should be considered rules - I certainly wouldn't call
them useful rules.

The rules help the child past the first hurdles in reading. It worked well
enough for me and my child that I don't have any problems with it. I do
remember using that rule myself for quite some time. Once the reading is
more fluent, we can move away from the rules.

Tori is talking about a *9-year-old*. The "rules" you mention might
work as a very rough rule of thumb for kindergarten kids, but by the
time a child is 9 years old, what good could they possibly be?
(Assuming this is a regular old normally intelligent child.)

Clisby- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A fluent reader is not always a great speller. This nine year old may
be able to read fine, but needs the rule for spelling.

--Betsy

betsy wrote:
On Aug 19, 2:18 pm, Clisby wrote:

toypup wrote:

On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 06:32:05 -0400, Clisby wrote:

toypup wrote:

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 19:43:09 -0400, Clisby wrote:

toypup wrote:

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:29:42 -0500, Tori M wrote:

My son learned this in kindergarten and I remember learning it in first
grade. Vowel-consonant-vowel = long vowel. Vowel-consonant-consonant =
short vowel.

Desert? Metal? Visit?

Clisby

There are exceptions to every rule.

There are so many exceptions to the two you've stated above that
I'm not sure they should be considered rules - I certainly wouldn't call
them useful rules.

The rules help the child past the first hurdles in reading. It worked well
enough for me and my child that I don't have any problems with it. I do
remember using that rule myself for quite some time. Once the reading is
more fluent, we can move away from the rules.

Tori is talking about a *9-year-old*. The "rules" you mention might
work as a very rough rule of thumb for kindergarten kids, but by the
time a child is 9 years old, what good could they possibly be?
(Assuming this is a regular old normally intelligent child.)

Clisby- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


A fluent reader is not always a great speller. This nine year old may
be able to read fine, but needs the rule for spelling.

--Betsy


A 9-year-old who is a good reader is going to encounter so many
exceptions to this supposed "rule" that I don't see how it could
possibly be helpful. It's not like "i before e, except after c".

Clisby

A 9-year-old who is a good reader is going to encounter so many
exceptions to this supposed "rule" that I don't see how it could
possibly be helpful. It's not like "i before e, except after c".

Clisby

This girl isn't that good of a reader. She just barely started last
year. This is the first year that she has had spelling lists assigned
and the first list is hard for her. I doubt they would be at grade
level in any subject that you tested them in, with the exception of the
6 year old that is at about the same speed as their 7 year old.

Tori

On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 17:09:13 GMT, toypup wrote:

I agree that by age 9, the child should be past learning all the phonics
rules,

That's just it...when I teach reading, the kids learn all the rules in
the first year(which starts at age 4 or 5). Letter sounds have been
learned before the reading lessons and by being read to, many words
have become sight-words (like "the", "and", "bi-lo" and others ;o).
There are not years spent on teaching/learning phonics.
Marie

On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 06:33:22 -0400, Clisby
wrote:

My son learned this in kindergarten and I remember learning it in first
grade. Vowel-consonant-vowel = long vowel. Vowel-consonant-consonant =
short vowel.

Desert? Metal? Visit?

Clisby

That would make the two rules above pretty useless, IMO - the list of
exceptions would be enormous.

Clisby

"Visit" actually follows the rules. CVC- short vowel sound. "Desert"-
follows the rules. The first e would be short because of CVC, and the
"er" makes the "errrr" sound. *That* is what phonics is. It's not just
about in what order the consonants and vowels are. Metal is one of
those exceptions.
Marie

On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 06:33:22 -0400, Clisby
wrote:

My son learned this in kindergarten and I remember learning it in first
grade. Vowel-consonant-vowel = long vowel. Vowel-consonant-consonant =
short vowel.

Desert? Metal? Visit?

Clisby

That would make the two rules above pretty useless, IMO - the list of
exceptions would be enormous.

Clisby

"Visit" actually follows the rules. CVC- short vowel sound. "Desert"-
follows the rules. The first e would be short because of CVC, and the
"er" makes the "errrr" sound. *That* is what phonics is. It's not just
about in what order the consonants and vowels are. Metal is one of
those exceptions.
Marie