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#81
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upset at nanny -- vent
"PattyMomVA" skrev i en meddelelse
... "Dawn Lawson" wrote in message news:FQrWb.462164$JQ1.333434@pd7tw1no... AND I snipped! She was ASKED what NAmericans do that she finds unusual and shocking. Yes, that was me who asked. I was curious. It's been an interesting thread to read. Thanks, Tine, for answering honestly. Anytime! I used to study social anthropology :-) Tine, Denmark |
#82
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upset at nanny -- vent
PattyMomVA wrote: "Dawn Lawson" wrote in message news:FQrWb.462164$JQ1.333434@pd7tw1no... AND I snipped! She was ASKED what NAmericans do that she finds unusual and shocking. Yes, that was me who asked. I was curious. It's been an interesting thread to read. Thanks, Tine, for answering honestly. Seconded. I think Tine does extremely well in a second language (English) to make her points clearly and honestly, and she's refreshingly straight-forward. :-) Dawn |
#83
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upset at nanny -- vent
"Tine Andersen" wrote in message k... "Nina" skrev i en meddelelse ... Here, a lot of us find that having 2 incomes doesnt help much. The 2nd income is eaten away by daycare, transportationa nd other costs. So its beneficial for one person to stay home. If one person provides money and one provides services, it may not be equal or identical but it is an equitable distribution of labor. Honestly, regarding laziness, my husband could never afford to pay someone for the services I render. If I were to work, my salary wouldnt cover child care housework laundry etc. Since we do have a small baby, i prefer to stay home and do these things rather than work and pay someone for it. With the number of kids we have, all the Drs appointments, school meetings, housework etc, there really needs to be someone home full time. Things are very different. Daycare is 250-300$ per month. I make 3000$ after taxes. I can take some hours off - with full pay - to go to the dentist, doctor, what have you with the kids. When they are ill I can take one day off - fully payed - and so can DH. When I'm on sick leave I'm payed my full salary. We have maternaty leave for nearly a year - so I was a SAHM for 6 mos (it has become longer since my kids were born). As everyone works, school metings are during the evenings - always. Distances are short - most people can bike to work. This country has more bikes that people. We are four people - we have (counting) six bikes. They come in all kinds: carrier cycles, with two chairs for kids, with trailers for groceries and kids. There is absolutely a difference between having one and two incomes here. There is here too. But with 3 kids,if the daycare is 300/child,thats a big chunk of money. Plus the lack of time because there are generally only 3 hours between coming home from work and kids going to bed. With more than 1,it gets very rushed. |
#84
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upset at nanny -- vent
Marie wrote in message . ..
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:56:09 +0100, "Tine Andersen" wrote: I just cook, housekeep and clean BESIDES having a full time job. If I only had to do that my house would be spotless, or I would spin, knit, sew and weave which I don't consider work but play. Trust me, no one's house is spotless just because they stay at home. During the hours you are working "full time", what do you think stay at home mothers are doing? Like the joke about the husband who comes home and looks around and asks "So what did you do all day?" Our days are full of taking care of our children, with children at home they make messes. We don't just leave our nice clean house in the mornings and come home to the same nice clean homes at night as working mothers do...our homes are constantly lived in. Our children are being interacted with, taught, doing arts/crafts, eating... The way I see it working out of the house is the easy thing to do as far as how much work is concerned. And I've been there so I know. As for knitting/sewing, LMAO No stay-at-home moms *I* know have the time for that. Marie This is *clearly* very person dependent, then. I was thinking as I was reading this "you have no idea what it's like to be a working mother!" When exactly do you think the house *gets* cleaned? I'd love to have the picture you painted - clean house in the morning, come home to same clean house. Hmmm - when would I manage that? Mornings are busy getting parents ready for work, and kids ready for their day. The day is filled with work. Come home, play with kids, make dinner, play more with kids, put kids to bed. Now it's 8:30 - 9:00pm. Some cleaning can be done, but nothing too noisy, because, well, the kids are sleeping. And, we've been going since 6:30am - cleaning is NOT at the top of my list at that point. So, dirty house remains dirty. Repeat 5x. Weekends are a blur of errands and cleaning that should have been done during the week. Hardly the nirvana painted above. But then you said that you have done both, so I'm somewhat baffled, as I've also done both. When I was home full-time, my house was MUCH cleaner, shopping was always done (never the panic of "oh crud, what on EARTH are we going to eat tonight?!?"), laundry was regularly done, AND I had time to myself (short snips, to be sure, but still time). To me, there is NO comparison to the stress level, and amount of work total that is done when you compare SAH vs WOH. Not even *close*. I don't even understand how you can logically think otherwise, actually. I mean, in terms of household chores, they are a constant, regardless of work-status. When you are home full time, you have all day, every day, to schedule them in, in short bits (so you don't have to do a massive, multi-hour clean job - lots of 15 minute jobs scattered through the week). Engaging the children in these tasks is easy, and fun. This isn't hard to manage (or perhaps I should say it wasn't hard to manage in my experience). If you work full-time, you have ALL of those tasks to do, but substantially less time to do them in. How could that be easier? Cripes, we even have a nanny. I honestly have NO idea how people do it when they have the get the kids ready for daycare in the mornings on top of it all. Most of my friends are SAH's, and they do lots of extra activties - tennis, sewing, knitting, scrapbooking, book clubs, etc. And in none of these situations are the kids ignored or are suffering. My son used to LOVE to help me clean. It was a fun activity that we did together, and I think it was good for him to learn how to do such things. m., now yearning for those months at home again! :-) |
#85
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upset at nanny -- vent
Nina wrote: "Dawn Lawson" wrote in message news:FQrWb.462164$JQ1.333434@pd7tw1no... Nina wrote: "Tine Andersen" wrote Being quite frank: I would probably look down at someone who chose to let her DH support her and stay at home. I would consider it lazy, I think. You're supposed to provide for yourself. I myself would hate to stay at home - I need the satisfaction my job gives me. I'm an acceptable mother, but I'm not born to be a MOTHER, if you KWIM. You dont consider the tasks of maintaining a home and family o be work? I find it ironic when people approve of working as a daycare worker outside the home for pay but consider it laziness when the same job is performed in ones home. Being a: daycare worker cook housekeeper are work when paid professsions, but laziness when same functions are provided at home. and imo, this is why NAmerican daycare is poorer than what Tine is used to. We have to be as sensitive to the differences in culture as Tine has been, if we are to continue asking her to spell out those differences. She was ASKED what NAmericans do that she finds unusual and shocking. Dawn My goodness, you tend to be testy. Where was i insensitive? I was disucssing in depth with her her perceptions and asking her further questions to get a better idea of her perspective. I cant see how thats insensitive. Dialogue. Sure, but the general reaction to Tine's posts about the differences between the Danish culture and what she reads here was "WHOT!! How can you feel that way?" the moment she said that there are few SAHM in Denmark and they are viewed in a certain way. In the context of "our" culture, SAHM are viewed differently, and it's difficult to accept (it seems) that another culture may feel otherwise, and be set up socially in a completely different way. The anecdote of the Danish mother who was jailed in the USA points that out to an extreme. :-) Dawn |
#86
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upset at nanny -- vent
"Dawn Lawson" wrote in message news:FQrWb.462164$JQ1.333434@pd7tw1no... Nina wrote: "Tine Andersen" wrote Being quite frank: I would probably look down at someone who chose to let her DH support her and stay at home. I would consider it lazy, I think. You're supposed to provide for yourself. I myself would hate to stay at home - I need the satisfaction my job gives me. I'm an acceptable mother, but I'm not born to be a MOTHER, if you KWIM. You dont consider the tasks of maintaining a home and family o be work? I find it ironic when people approve of working as a daycare worker outside the home for pay but consider it laziness when the same job is performed in ones home. Being a: daycare worker cook housekeeper are work when paid professsions, but laziness when same functions are provided at home. and imo, this is why NAmerican daycare is poorer than what Tine is used to. We have to be as sensitive to the differences in culture as Tine has been, if we are to continue asking her to spell out those differences. She was ASKED what NAmericans do that she finds unusual and shocking. Dawn My goodness, you tend to be testy. Where was i insensitive? I was disucssing in depth with her her perceptions and asking her further questions to get a better idea of her perspective. I cant see how thats insensitive. Dialogue. |
#87
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upset at nanny -- vent
"Nina" skrev i en meddelelse
... "Tine Andersen" wrote in message k... "Nina" skrev i en meddelelse ... Here, a lot of us find that having 2 incomes doesnt help much. The 2nd income is eaten away by daycare, transportationa nd other costs. So its beneficial for one person to stay home. If one person provides money and one provides services, it may not be equal or identical but it is an equitable distribution of labor. Honestly, regarding laziness, my husband could never afford to pay someone for the services I render. If I were to work, my salary wouldnt cover child care housework laundry etc. Since we do have a small baby, i prefer to stay home and do these things rather than work and pay someone for it. With the number of kids we have, all the Drs appointments, school meetings, housework etc, there really needs to be someone home full time. Things are very different. Daycare is 250-300$ per month. I make 3000$ after taxes. I can take some hours off - with full pay - to go to the dentist, doctor, what have you with the kids. When they are ill I can take one day off - fully payed - and so can DH. When I'm on sick leave I'm payed my full salary. We have maternaty leave for nearly a year - so I was a SAHM for 6 mos (it has become longer since my kids were born). As everyone works, school metings are during the evenings - always. Distances are short - most people can bike to work. This country has more bikes that people. We are four people - we have (counting) six bikes. They come in all kinds: carrier cycles, with two chairs for kids, with trailers for groceries and kids. There is absolutely a difference between having one and two incomes here. There is here too. But with 3 kids,if the daycare is 300/child,thats a big chunk of money. Plus the lack of time because there are generally only 3 hours between coming home from work and kids going to bed. With more than 1,it gets very rushed. 2nd kid half price, 3rd even cheaper. I would make it four hours, but yes, it's not much. Mine are 6 and 11, so if we pick the small one up at 4:30 and he goes to bed 8:30-9:00 we do have some time. The big one comes home by herself (or she is home) and she goes to bed at 10, så we have lost of time for home work and beating dad in chess. Tine, Denmark |
#88
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upset at nanny -- vent
"iphigenia" wrote in message ...
So if you want to raise your children yourself, are you looked down on? Heck, SAHM's with that opinion are looked down on here by many, as well. ;-) Sorry, pet-peeve of mine. Both DH and I are raising our children. Our employment status has no bearing on this fact. I don't *think* you meant it in the tone that I read it, but I still couldn't just let it go... m. |
#89
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Cultural differences (was: upset at nanny -- vent)
"Circe" wrote in message news:Y0sWb.39169$QJ3.36800@fed1read04... Nina wrote: "Tine Andersen" wrote in message k... "Nina" skrev i en meddelelse ... It's not 'negro' in Danish - it's 'neger'. But it's the same word. The english translation of "neger' would be "black" not "negro" as "negro" is basically a euphemism for black. So calling black people "neger" is the equivalent of calling them "black" here, not "negro". Neger probably sounds like ******, which is a Bad Word. You are right - I checked my vocabulary - it's 'black'. Was negro a bad word 35 years ago? No, negro was then standard usage. It changes. Er, 35 years ago, I was 4 years old. I'm reasonably sure that Negro was in disfavor by then. I believe "colored" was actually the favored term by that time. Hmm, not sure. I am only 33. AFAIK colored is an older term, one used by my grandmothers generation. mplications because it was coined and used at a time when black people were considered so inferior in the US that it was okay to enslave them. For obvious reasons, most people in the US now want to dissociate themselves from that term and all its baggage. -- No, Negro hasnt always been a negtive term. There are a great many organizations by and for African Americans that contain the name Negro, the United Negro College fund for one. The terms that are acceptable change, its in a constant state of flux it seems. |
#90
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Cultural differences (was: upset at nanny -- vent)
"Clisby" wrote in message ... Circe wrote: Nina wrote: "Tine Andersen" wrote in message .dk... "Nina" skrev i en meddelelse ... It's not 'negro' in Danish - it's 'neger'. But it's the same word. The english translation of "neger' would be "black" not "negro" as "negro" is basically a euphemism for black. So calling black people "neger" is the equivalent of calling them "black" here, not "negro". Neger probably sounds like ******, which is a Bad Word. You are right - I checked my vocabulary - it's 'black'. Was negro a bad word 35 years ago? No, negro was then standard usage. It changes. Er, 35 years ago, I was 4 years old. I'm reasonably sure that Negro was in disfavor by then. I believe "colored" was actually the favored term by that time. I think you have it backward - at least, for where I grew up, in S.C. and Mississippi. "Colored" had been around for a long time - that's the term my parents (now in their 70s) had used all their lives. The Agreed.,my 80 year old Granny from Lousiana still uses the term colored as do many older people in the South. NAACP is almost 100 years old, after all. I'm pretty sure "Negro" was more a '40s and '50s successor to "colored" - when I was growing up, the word "Negro" came with the implication the person saying it wasn't Southern. Negro was an attempt to be more formal. That said, Negro was *always* a word with negative implications because it was coined and used at a time when black people were considered so inferior in the US that it was okay to enslave them. For obvious reasons, most people in the US now want to dissociate themselves from that term and all its baggage. I'm not sure I'd say "Negro" was coined - it just means black. And I disagree that it always had negative connotations - at least not in the way I think you mean. When I was a child, my parents would consider a person calling himself/herself a "Negro" to be an outsider, almost a radical - like someone leading a voting rights drive, for example. To them, it was a negative term - I doubt that it was to the people who used it to refer to themselves. (I'm sure Malcolm X considered it a negative term, but that's another story.) Yup |
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