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A 'physic' for Dr. Israeli/'Physic'ian Orac, MD, PhD: Did he get his PhD out of a cereal box?



 
 
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Old September 17th 03, 08:17 PM
Todd Gastaldo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default A 'physic' for Dr. Israeli/'Physic'ian Orac, MD, PhD: Did he get his PhD out of a cereal box?

"PHYSIC"IANS... See below...

A "PHYSIC" FOR DR. ISRAELI

Hillary Israeli, DVM... Rep. Don Manzullo has proposed a SECOND (bogus)
federal law inferring there is scientific evidence that chiros are
demonstrating subluxations on x-ray!

I personally believe DCs (and DOs) are adjusting SOMETHING.

See Awesome breasts! OBs causing otitis media? (also: 'Osteopathic' v.
'Chiropractic' manipulation)...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2159

I just don't see any scientific evidence that whatever DOs and DCs are
adjusting to relieve disease has been demonstrated to exist on x-ray.



"PHYSIC"IAN ORAC, MD, PhD:

DID HE GET HIS PhD OUT OF A CEREAL BOX?

"Please describe one lie in either of ['Quackbuster' Barrett's] websites,
and then show us WITH EVIDENCE why it is a lie. Just saying 'it's a lie'
does NOT constitute evidence."
--Pseudonymous usenet 'physic'ian "Orac, MD, PhD"
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain




EARTH TO "ORAC"!

"Quackbuster" Stephen Barrett, MD LIES BY OMISSION - hammering "small
potatoes" spinal manipulators (chiropractic physicians) as he ignores the
MOST PROLIFIC spinal manipulators (MD-obstetricians)...

MD-obstetricians not only force uteri to push on babies' spines with birth
canals closed up to 30% (see URL below) - they are almost literally
(sometimes fatally) hammering babies - chemically whipping uteri to contract
VIOLENTLY - with Oxytocin/Cytotec - with birth canals senselessly closed up
to 30%.

A pseudonymous usenet "physic"ian who calls himself "PF Riley, MD" - also
lies by omission - says I am "psychotic" when I point out MDs lying by
omission.

See Johns Hopkins breast/vagina/penis power! (How America can INSTANTLY save
$200 million per year...)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2108

Of course, "PF Riley, MD" is always "correct" by definition, as in,

"[T]he intellectual foundation of medical care...is...whatever a
physician decides is by definition correct." [Eddy DM. The challenge.
(Jan12)1990 JAMA] : )



"'PHYSIC'IAN ORAC, MD, PhD": LIES BY OMISSION TOO...

After I noted massive MD crimes...

After I noted in effect that the most prolific spinal manipulators
(MD-obstetricians) are making up claims they clearly cannot back up with
evidence...

"'Physic'ian Orac, ,MD, PhD" blithely "responded":

"Should **chiros** be making...claims that they clearly cannot back up with
evidence?" [**emphasis** added]
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain

ARRGGGHHH! The most prolific spinal manipulators (MD-obstetricians) are
almost literally hammmering babies and making up claims they clearly cannot
back up with evidence...

....and "Orac, MD, PhD" questions whether CHIROS should be making claims that
they clearly cannot back up with evidence!

"Orac, MD, PhD" lies by omission - babies be damned - JUST like
"Quackbuster" Barrett...



"PHYSIC"IAN ANDREW B. CHUNG, MD/PhD VOUCHES FOR "ORAC, MD, PhD"

When someone expressed doubt whether "Orac" was really an MD/PhD...

"Physic"ian Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD ) wrote:

"I can affirm that Orac is published, has both MD and PhD degrees, and is
[therefore] a doctor."
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain



NEONATAL CARDIOLOGY QUESTION FOR "PHYSIC"IAN ANDREW...

"UNCOMPLICATED BIRTH"...

A whopping 62% of full-term newborns with "known congenital heart disease"
suffered brain bleeds after "uncomplicated birth." [Tavani et al.
Neuroradiology. 2003 Apr;45(4):253-8. Epub 2003 Mar 15. PubMed abstract.]

Andrew, could newborns with "known congenital heart disease" be predisposed
to brain bleeds?

(I know anything is possible - but is there any EVIDENCE?)

REGARDLESS, OBs - "physic"ians - should NOT be routinely closing birth
canals up to 30%.




LIKE MD-"PHYSIC"IANS...

HILLARY ISRAELI, VMD - who likely administers "physic" to animals - SKIPPED
RIGHT PAST MY DESCRIPTION OF MASS MD CRIMINAL ACTIVITY...

I wrote:

Currently, Americas MDs are NOT behaving as physicians...[Instead they] are
behaving as CRIMINALS, senselessly closing birth canals and
gruesomely manipulating most babies' spines - among other obvious crimes...

See Johns Hopkins breast/vagina/penis power! (How America can INSTANTLY save
$200 million per year...)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2108

Hillary also skipped right past my statement:

As always, I am in favor of pardons in advance for MDs. MDs are just
academic prime cuts forced through this culture's most powerful mental
meatgrinder - medical school.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain

I MENTION THE MEDICAL SCHOOL MENTAL MEATGRINDER BECAUSE HILLARY ASKS ON HER
WEB SITE:

"If there is anyone out there who thinks it is sane or normal to put
yourself through what we go through in veterinary school - and I assume
law/med students have it the same - well, just let me know, because I'm not
so sure about it myself."
--Hillary Israeli, VMD
http://www.hillary.net/op-ed_new.html

Hillary: Law and vet students do not tie babies to boards and make them
scream and writhe and bleed through American medicine's obviously illegal
most frequent surgical behavior toward males...

See again: Johns Hopkins breast/vagina/penis power! (How America can
INSTANTLY save
$200 million per year...)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2108

Vet students likely do cut off puppy tails though... : (



As I indicated at the outset of this post...

Hillary Israeli, DVM is full of mental fecal matter still being pushed by
Rockefeller-like media moguls...

A "PHYSIC" FOR DR. ISRAELI...

I asked,

ARE CHIROPRACTORS PHYSICIANS?

Hillary answered: "No."

She was responding to my post about the fact that the federal gov't classes
chiropractors as physicians and 30 states permit doctors of chiropractic to
refer to themselves
as 'chiropractic physicians'...

In response to this latter info, Hillary wrote:

"So what? How is that at all relevant to the question of whether or not
chiropractors are physicians? Chiropractors are chiropractors. This is not
a rocket-scientist level question..."
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain

NOTE: Previously, Hillary has written that people interested in
chiropractic should visit one of the above mentioned "Quackbuster" Stephen
Barrett, MD websites...

"Consider looking at http://www.chirobase.org if you're interested in
chiropractic. Suffice it
to say it is not my cup of tea...the way I [feel] about
chiropractic...[might]...**** anyone off."
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain

Hillary,

As noted above, your source for chiropractic LIES BY OMISSION. See above.

Above all, chiropractors are DOCTORS of chiropractic (as you know, the word
doctor derives from "docere" the Latin word for teacher)...

Chiropractic was defined by its Founder Dr. DD Palmer (in part) as "the
mental act of accumulating knowledge." "Chiropractic came as an educator,"
he said.

When I asked the Dorland's Chief Lexicographer to change the Dorland's
definition of "doctor" to include graduates of chiropractic colleges...

He took the opportunity to also include graduates of veterinary colleges (as
well as graduates of other health care colleges - I think I've noted this
for you before).

Important question: WHY wasn't Dorland's Illustrated Medical Dictionary
including graduates of chiropractic colleges and others in the definition of
"doctor"?

The Dorland's omission was likely a reflection of turn of the century
political/media positioning of medics/MDs by Rockefeller, Sr. et al.

When Rockefeller, Sr. went into "medical philanthropy" (read:
"pharmaceutical promotion") he made sure his 'physic'ians - his MD/medic
drug salesmen/prescribers - were the ONLY people to be called "Dr." by the
media he dominated.

Here's an excerpt of an article about Rockefeller, Sr.'s power...

Quoting from CIVIS Foundation Report number 15, Fall-Winter 1993
CIVIS: POB 152, Via Motta 51-CH 6900, Massagno/Lugano, Switzerland:

THE INTELLECTUALS - A BARGAIN

For all his innate cynicism, [John D. Rockefeller] must have been
himself surprised to discover how easily the so-called intellectuals
could be bought. Indeed, they turned out to be among his best
investments.

By founding and lavishly endowing his Education Boards at home and
abroad, Rockefeller won control not only of the governments and
politicos but also of the intellectual and scientific community,
starting with the Medical Power - the organization that forms those
priests of the New Religion that are the modern medicine men. No
Pulitzer or Nobel or any similar prize endowed with money and prestige
has ever been awarded to a declared foe of the Rockefeller system...

Emanuel M. Josephson, M.D., whom the Drug Trust has been unable to
intimidate despite many attempts, pointed out that the National
Association of Science Writers was "persuaded" to adopt as part of its
code of ethics the following chestnut: "Science editors are incapable of
judging the facts of phenomena involved in medical and scientific
discovery. Therefore, they only report 'discoveries' approved by medical
authorities, or those presented before a body of scientific peers."
--Excerpted from CIVIS Foundation Report number 15, Fall-Winter 1993
CIVIS: POB 152, Via Motta 51-CH 6900, Massagno/Lugano, Switzerland
http://www.novivisection.org.uk/civis15b.html
http://csf.colorado.edu/forums/medso.../msg00193.html

There are newservices and reporters who STILL don't refer to chiros (or
vets!) as "Dr." as a consequence of Rockefeller, Sr. et al.'s influence on
the media.

KEY POINT: Vets use drugs ("physic") and don't have to compete with
medics - chiros do - and there's the rub:

As I noted in my post "Are chiropractors physicians"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2111...

MDs are trying to OWN the power word "physician" and - more importantly -
use it as a way to determine who gets paid and how much for SUPPOSEDLY
identical services. (It turns out, MDs aren't all that they crack themselves
up to be in important parts of health care - largely because of an
anti-scientific 'physic' past that persists to this day. More on this
below.)



EARLY "PHYSIC"IANS USED "PHYSIC" TO EMPTY BOWELS OF FECAL MATTER...

Original "PHYSIC"IANS were so called because they mostly administered
"PHYSIC" to empty bowels of fecal matter. The art of medicine and of
therapeutics was NAMED after the administration of "physic" - "a medicine,
esp. a cathartic." - "cathartic...causing emptying of the bowels."
[Dorland's Illustrated Medical Dictionary 29th ed. 2000]

"Physic"ians later expanded to emptying MINDS of "fecal matter" ("repressed
material") as in, "catharsis...purgation [emptying the bowels, as by a
medicine...in psychiatry, release of ideas, thoughts, and repressed material
from the unconscious..." [Dorland's Illustrated Medical Dictionary 29th ed.
2000]

"Physic"ians ANTI-COMPETITIVELY and ANTI-SCIENTIFICALLY profited from the
administration of "physic" - and - I say again - they expanded the "physic"
notion to include hypothetical "release" of "material" from the unconscious
mind.

(I think this is where "physic"ian neurologists split from "physic"ian
psychiatrists.)

"Physic"ians are STILL anti-competitively and anti-scientifically profit
from the administration of "physic" - mothers and babies be damned.

"Physic"ians have a history of practicing QUACKERY (unproven therapeutics)
all the while CENSORING non-"physic"ians by calling THEM quacks.

WHAT is the difference between an MD "physic"ian psychiatrist
("Quackbuster" Barrett?) releasing hypothetical "material" from the
unconscious mind - and a DC physician orthopedist releasing/mobilizing
hypothetical vertebral subluxations?!

Whatever the difference, when it finally became clear that MD-"physic"ians
were just as quack-like as non-MD physicians (chiropractic physicians)...a
jury trial was engineered called Wilk v. AMA...

Wilk v. AMA got underway (1983) as organized medicine and PharmCos were
petitioning Congress (they failed) for total immunity from liability for the
mass vaccination behavior of MDs...

Wilk v. AMA started up again (1986) when organized medicine and PharmCos
AGAIN petitioned Congress - this time for LESS immunity from liability for
the mass vaccination behavior of MDs...

See VACCINATION SUBLUXATION! (Thimerosal: Sen Frist subluxating VICA)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2156





Non-MD physicians (chiropractic physicians) won the battle in Wilk v. AMA -
but they lost the WAR.

Chiropractic physicians lost the protection of the Sherman Act as organized
medicine got VIRTUAL immunity from liability for the mass vaccination
behavior of MDs...

See US Atty Genl to 'quackbust' CSICOP 'skeptics'? (For PJ Lisa via Tim
Bolen)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2021

It's 2003 and MDs and PharmCos are going back for TOTAL immunity from
liability - like they did in 1983...

See again: VACCINATION SUBLUXATION! (Thimerosal: Sen Frist subluxating VICA)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2156


As noted in VACCINATION SUBLUXATION! - MDs are FRAUDULENTLY administering
"physic" - failing to make simple reports to establish the safety of their
"physic."

I'd like the chiropractic trade unions to take action by the September 2003
ACA House of Delegates meeting...

See Chiro orthopedists and global UNREST - and babies...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2030

But I suspect that too many chiros are paralyzed with fear that their
ongoing (relatively inocuous^^^) radiation crime will be
exposed...

I think my willingness to discuss chiropractic's ongoing (relatively
inocuous^^^) radiation crime is the reason I am still censored from posting
to the Dziuba/Cronshaw (now Zaleski/Dubin) version of chirolist.

^^^See Ufberg, Calif. Chiro Bd perpetuate DC radiation fraud
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/1220



AFTER CHIROS LOST THE WAR IN WILK v. AMA...

"Physic"ians kept practicing their obvious quackery/"medical science" and
simply renamed other people's quackery "complementary and alternative
medicine/CAM."

Chiropractic physicans seem to be going along with the newer "nicer" medical
gag...

Which brings me back to my "physic"/KEY POINT for Dr. Israeli the vet: Vets
don't have to compete with medics - chiros do - and there's the rub: MDs
are trying to own the word "physician" and use it (in laws and regs) as a
way to determine who gets paid and how much for SUPPOSEDLY identical
services.

MDs are claiming they should get paid more for diagnosis and treatment of
musculoskeletal problems - the current focus of chiropractic physician
practice - even though MDs are demonstrably "inadequate" in this area of
practice.

See medical testimony in the 1987 Wilk v. AMA case. (One can buy a book
about the Wilk v. AMA case authored by one of the plaintiffs, Chester Wilk,
DC at .)

See also: Freedman KB, Bernstein J. J Bone Joint Surg Am. 1998
Oct;80(10):1421-7 (PubMed abstract excerpt): "A basic familiarity with
musculoskeletal disorders is essential for all medical school
graduates...[S]eventy (82 per cent) of eighty-five medical school graduates
failed a valid musculoskeletal competency examination. We therefore believe
that medical school preparation in musculoskeletal medicine is inadequate."

(Perhaps new DCs would also fail Freedman et al.'s "valid musculoskeletal
competency exam"? I doubt it - but of course I'm biased, being a chiro
myself!)

One thing is for su Medical school preparation in musculoskeletal
medicine SUCKS!

Just how bad *is* medical school preparation in musculoskeletal medicine?

MDs are senselessly closing birth canals and gruesomely manipulating most
babies' spines at birth.

MD-"physic"ians are committing CRIME...

Some babies are DYING from the gruesome mass MD spinal manipulation crime...

MDs are killing an estimated six babies per DAY with vacuum-assisted spinal
manipulation alone - with birth canals senselessly closed up to 30%...

See USUAL MECHANISM (PS5) in my article, "Pregnant chiro patients: BIZARRE
chiro legislation - babies be damned..."
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2135


Hillary, you questioned the sanity of medical school (see above).

MUCH medical school is INSANITY - a consequence of forcing academic prime
cuts through this culture's most powerful mental meatgrinder - medical
school - which I why I favor pardons in advance for MDs.

MDs - economic competitors of DCs - are frauds of the highest order. (NOTE:
I am *not* saying this excuses chiro fraud - indeed I wish to see chiro
fraud adjusted immediately. See again: Ufberg, Calif. Chiro Bd perpetuate
DC radiation fraud
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/1220

MD political power today does NOT derive from science but rather from turn
of the century political positioning and media dominance by the people who
STILL pull "physic"ian strings - to sell more "physic."

MDs are puppets for profits - DRUG profits - "physic" profits - mothers and
babies be damned.

MDs deserve neither exclusive use of the power word "physician" nor further
remuneration for their obvious ongoing frauds.

Thanks for reading, Hillary,

Sincerely,

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo


PS If it were in my power, I would ABOLISH TITULAR ETIQUETTE ENTIRELY. But
this is not in my power. **MDs** are in power - and they are crookedly
trying to use their power to further their power - with a word - physician.
I will be working to get the definition of "physician" changed in Dorland's
and other dictionaries. "Physic"ians are doing FAR more than they did when
chiropractic Founder Dr. DD Palmer was alive - and they are doing so much of
it obviously POORLY - obviously criminally.

BOTTOMLINE FOR HILLARY: The fact that the federal gov't classes
chiropractors as physicians and 30 states permit them to refer to themselves
as 'chiropractic physicians' is QUITE relevant - both to the question of
whether or not chiropractors are physicians - and more importantly to the
question of whether chiropractors will attain the cultural authority (and
courage) to finally take action to stop obvious MD crime against babies.

CONGRESSMAN MANZULLO PERPETUATING X-RAY/SUBLUXATION FRAUD

Rep. Donald Manzullo, a Republican in the AMA's home state of Illinois has
introduced a "chiropractic" bill - HR 2560 - a SECOND federal law which
perpetuates the inference that there is scientific evidence that vertebral
subluxations exist and cause disease and stop causing disease when
adjusted...

Rep. Manzullo's chief of staff Adam Magary actually STATES the
x-ray/subluxation fraud!

"Does [it] not seem absurd to anyone...[Office of Inspector General
personnel] say the service is not necessary but they do not look at the
x-rays that objectively demonstrate the existence of subluxation." [Magary
A. Open Letter regarding HR 2560. The Chiropractic Journal (2950 N. Dobson
Rd., #1, Chandler, AZ 85224 800-347-1011) Vol. 17, No. 12, September
2003:37]

On the plus side (for Hillary): Rep. Manzullo's bill would remove DCs from
Medicare's "physician" category.

BACKGROUND...

Some have called Rep Manzullo's bill "WCA's bill."

World Chiropractic Alliance/WCA Pres. Terry Rondberg, DC offers this
correction:

"First of all, HR 2560 is not a 'WCA bill.' It is a bill introduced by Rep.
Donald Manzullo and endorsed and supported by the Chiropractic Coalition..."
[Rondberg quoting himself in his (WCA's) Chiropractic Journal, Vol. 17, No.
12, September 2003:31]

To my knowledge, Rondberg and the Chiropractic Coalition have offered NO
scientific evidence that vertebral subluxations exist and cause disease,
etc.

As I noted for Rondberg (still no response yet), Owens indicates that there
is no such scientific evidence...

See Pregnant chiro patients: BIZARRE
chiro legislation - babies be damned...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2135

Here is ACA attorney Tom Daly's analysis of HR 2560: (SUMMARY: Rep
Manzullo's proposal would remove chiros from the definition of physician and
as a consequence chiro services would be valued along the same lines of the
"much lower valued non-physician manual therapy codes"...)

According to Daly:

"According to the chiropractic representatives on both AMA-CPT HCPAC and RUC
HCPAC, [Rep. Manzullo's] HR 2560 would require a change in the current CMT
codes - from 'chiropractic manipulative therapy' to something like
'chiropractic adjustment therapy'...The new 'CAT' codes would then go under
the process of review by the RUC for the assignment of new relative values.
In that process, the profession would no longer be able to compare the
relative values to the osteopathic manipulative therapy/OMT codes, as was
successfully done in 1996, because of the [Manzullo-proposed] change in
definition from manipulation to adjustment...In addition, the current CMT
Codes include: 1) some history, 2) some examination, and 3) some clinical
decision-making that only a physician can perform. These are not included
in non-physician services, such as 97140 (manual therapy techniques). HR
2560 would remove chiropractors from the definition of physician and
therefore the [Manzullo-proposed] new CAT codes could not include the higher
valued physician component, but rather would be valued along the same lines
of the much lower valued non-physician manual therapy codes..." ACA
attorney Tom Daly quoted by ACA chairman James Edwards in Rondberg's The
Chiropractic Journal, Vol. 17, No. 12, September 2003:front page,
30,31,32,33.

MY PERSONAL TAKE: Rep. Manzullo's bill should be defeated. Why should DCs
be FURTHER taxed by Medicare as Medicare pays $7 BILLION per year to help
train MDs and DOs to ignore science, close birth canals and GRUESOMELY
manipulate most babies' spines at birth (among other obvious MD and DO
crimes)???

See Awesome breasts! OBs causing otitis media? (also: 'Osteopathic' v.
'Chiropractic' manipulation)...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2159

MY SOLUTION: Stop the x-ray/subluxation fraud that medical lobbiests got
Congress to pass (over the objections of chiros) - AND stop the obvious MD
and DO fraud. NOW.




"MEDICAL SCIENCE"...

In response to my post, Are chiropractors physicians?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2111

Jeffrey P. Utz, MD replied:

"[I don't think chiropractors should be allowed to call themselves
physicians]...the theory behind chiropractic is not supported by medical
science..."
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain

Jeff "forgets"... "Medical science" is mostly monumental MD arrogance - the
basis for *massive* amounts of obvious health fraud...

As noted above,

"[T]he intellectual foundation of medical care...is...whatever a
physician decides is by definition correct." [Eddy DM. The challenge.
(Jan12)1990 JAMA]

Here is an interesting companion quote:

"There is one quotation that captures the essence of what membership in
both the AMA and our state medical associations is all about...'Joining
the AMA is like joining a church...' [Hopkins D reviewing Campion FD: The
AMA and U.S. Health Policy Since 1940, 1984, Review Press: Chicago, IL.
In Western J Med, 1985;142(2):273]


FINALLY THIS...

I asked tongue-in-cheek on the subject line and at the beginning of this
post: "'Physic'ian Orac, MD, PhD: Did he get his PhD out of a cereal box?"

I believe Cardiologist Chung - "Orac" is an MD/PhD.

MDs could go to prison if all their massive crimes were prosecuted.

See again: Johns Hopkins breast/vagina/penis power! (How America can
INSTANTLY save $200 million per year...)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2108

This is why MDs lie by omission instead of helping babies.

As always, I am in favor of pardons in advance for MDs. MDs are just
academic prime cuts forced through this culture's most powerful mental
meatgrinder - medical school.



Thanks for reading, everyone,

Sincerely,

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo


Brian Zaleski, DC: Please forward this to the CENSORED version of chirolist
)...

Please also forward to the ACA and CCA listservs.

Hopefully SOME delegates/ACA members attending the Sept. 16-20 ACA House of
Delegates meeting in Albuquerque will speak out in opposition to the obvious
MD and DO crimes.

At the very least "neuromusculoskeletal" ACA delegates should protest MDs
and DOs senselessly closing birth canals and gruesomely manipulating most
babies' spines at birth....

Tentative Meeting schedule
BOG Meeting Sept. 16-17
Committee & Caucus Meetings Sept. 17
Council of Delegates Meeting Sept. 18
House of Delegates Meeting Sept. 19-20
Educational Programs Sept. 20
http://www.amerchiro.org/about/hod2003/hotel_info.shtml

The 2004 ACA House of Delegates Meeting will be held at the Renaissance
Vinoy Resort and Golf Club in St. Petersburg, FL.

Maybe ACA will have acted to help the tiniest chiropractic patients by
2004...

Hey! Maybe Banyan CEO Attorney Michael Gelmon (Chiropractic USA is a Banyan
subsidiary) will take action!

LOS ANGELES--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Sept. 8, 2003--Banyan Corporation (OTC
BB:BANY) subsidiary, Chiropractic USA, Inc. (Chiropractic USA), on September
1, 2003, opened its first franchised clinics, with the conversion of various
chiropractic clinics in California, Hawaii, Michigan, Louisiana and Florida
into Chiropractic USA franchised clinics.

Banyan Chief Executive Officer Michael Gelmon said, "These established
clinics are all now operating and trading under the name 'Chiropractic USA.'
While this is only our first operational step in our franchise program, it
already represents annual system-wide revenues in excess of $6 million-and
this is just the beginning..."

ACA politico Bob Lynch, DC responded to the Chiropractic USA news by
whining: "How does this make everyone feel, when [CJ Mertz, DC] the
president of the ICA is involved in a business dealing like this one? Can DR
Mertz really say as the leader of the ICA, he is working for the profession
while involved in a business deal such as this one?"

Banyan Corporation, 800-808-0899, Investor Relations: 877-980-3114

I cc Banyan CEO/Attorney Michael at

Attorney Michael, please forward this to your business associate CJ Mertz,
DC, now president of ICA...

Maybe ICA (and Chiropractic USA) will take action before ACA...

Maybe the tiniest chiropractic patients will get help from ICA and
Chiropractic USA - while ACA picks its nose...

Anything's possible in "the fast political shuffle of chiropractic."

Bob Lynch, DC: The chiro trade unions are SUPPOSED to be working FIRST for
patients and public health - and THEN for chiropractic - or do I have that
backwards?

***This Open Letter will be instantly archived for global access on the
UNcensored version of chiro-list at...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2158

Within 24 hours it
will be in the google archive. Search
http://groups.google.com for "A 'physic' for Dr. Israeli/'Physic'ian Orac,
MD, PhD: Did he get his PhD out of a cereal box?"

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  #2  
Old September 18th 03, 07:13 AM
Robert McCarty
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Default A 'physic' for Dr. Israeli/'Physic'ian Orac, MD, PhD: Did he get hisPhD out of a cereal box?



Todd Gastaldo wrote:

"PHYSIC"IANS... See below...

A "PHYSIC" FOR DR. ISRAELI

Hillary Israeli, DVM... Rep. Don Manzullo has proposed a SECOND (bogus)
federal law inferring there is scientific evidence that chiros are
demonstrating subluxations on x-ray!

I personally believe DCs (and DOs) are adjusting SOMETHING.

See Awesome breasts! OBs causing otitis media? (also: 'Osteopathic' v.
'Chiropractic' manipulation)...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2159

I just don't see any scientific evidence that whatever DOs and DCs are
adjusting to relieve disease has been demonstrated to exist on x-ray.

"PHYSIC"IAN ORAC, MD, PhD:

DID HE GET HIS PhD OUT OF A CEREAL BOX?

"Please describe one lie in either of ['Quackbuster' Barrett's] websites,
and then show us WITH EVIDENCE why it is a lie. Just saying 'it's a lie'
does NOT constitute evidence."
--Pseudonymous usenet 'physic'ian "Orac, MD, PhD"
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain

EARTH TO "ORAC"!

"Quackbuster" Stephen Barrett, MD LIES BY OMISSION - hammering "small
potatoes" spinal manipulators (chiropractic physicians) as he ignores the
MOST PROLIFIC spinal manipulators (MD-obstetricians)...

MD-obstetricians not only force uteri to push on babies' spines with birth
canals closed up to 30% (see URL below) - they are almost literally
(sometimes fatally) hammering babies - chemically whipping uteri to contract
VIOLENTLY - with Oxytocin/Cytotec - with birth canals senselessly closed up
to 30%.

A pseudonymous usenet "physic"ian who calls himself "PF Riley, MD" - also
lies by omission - says I am "psychotic" when I point out MDs lying by
omission.

See Johns Hopkins breast/vagina/penis power! (How America can INSTANTLY save
$200 million per year...)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2108

Of course, "PF Riley, MD" is always "correct" by definition, as in,

"[T]he intellectual foundation of medical care...is...whatever a
physician decides is by definition correct." [Eddy DM. The challenge.
(Jan12)1990 JAMA] : )

"'PHYSIC'IAN ORAC, MD, PhD": LIES BY OMISSION TOO...

After I noted massive MD crimes...

After I noted in effect that the most prolific spinal manipulators
(MD-obstetricians) are making up claims they clearly cannot back up with
evidence...

"'Physic'ian Orac, ,MD, PhD" blithely "responded":

"Should **chiros** be making...claims that they clearly cannot back up with
evidence?" [**emphasis** added]
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain

ARRGGGHHH! The most prolific spinal manipulators (MD-obstetricians) are
almost literally hammmering babies and making up claims they clearly cannot
back up with evidence...

...and "Orac, MD, PhD" questions whether CHIROS should be making claims that
they clearly cannot back up with evidence!

"Orac, MD, PhD" lies by omission - babies be damned - JUST like
"Quackbuster" Barrett...

"PHYSIC"IAN ANDREW B. CHUNG, MD/PhD VOUCHES FOR "ORAC, MD, PhD"

When someone expressed doubt whether "Orac" was really an MD/PhD...

"Physic"ian Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD ) wrote:

"I can affirm that Orac is published, has both MD and PhD degrees, and is
[therefore] a doctor."
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain

NEONATAL CARDIOLOGY QUESTION FOR "PHYSIC"IAN ANDREW...

"UNCOMPLICATED BIRTH"...

A whopping 62% of full-term newborns with "known congenital heart disease"
suffered brain bleeds after "uncomplicated birth." [Tavani et al.
Neuroradiology. 2003 Apr;45(4):253-8. Epub 2003 Mar 15. PubMed abstract.]

Andrew, could newborns with "known congenital heart disease" be predisposed
to brain bleeds?

(I know anything is possible - but is there any EVIDENCE?)

REGARDLESS, OBs - "physic"ians - should NOT be routinely closing birth
canals up to 30%.

LIKE MD-"PHYSIC"IANS...

HILLARY ISRAELI, VMD - who likely administers "physic" to animals - SKIPPED
RIGHT PAST MY DESCRIPTION OF MASS MD CRIMINAL ACTIVITY...

I wrote:

Currently, Americas MDs are NOT behaving as physicians...[Instead they] are
behaving as CRIMINALS, senselessly closing birth canals and
gruesomely manipulating most babies' spines - among other obvious crimes...

See Johns Hopkins breast/vagina/penis power! (How America can INSTANTLY save
$200 million per year...)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2108

Hillary also skipped right past my statement:

As always, I am in favor of pardons in advance for MDs. MDs are just
academic prime cuts forced through this culture's most powerful mental
meatgrinder - medical school.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain

I MENTION THE MEDICAL SCHOOL MENTAL MEATGRINDER BECAUSE HILLARY ASKS ON HER
WEB SITE:

"If there is anyone out there who thinks it is sane or normal to put
yourself through what we go through in veterinary school - and I assume
law/med students have it the same - well, just let me know, because I'm not
so sure about it myself."
--Hillary Israeli, VMD
http://www.hillary.net/op-ed_new.html

Hillary: Law and vet students do not tie babies to boards and make them
scream and writhe and bleed through American medicine's obviously illegal
most frequent surgical behavior toward males...

See again: Johns Hopkins breast/vagina/penis power! (How America can
INSTANTLY save
$200 million per year...)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2108

Vet students likely do cut off puppy tails though... : (

As I indicated at the outset of this post...

Hillary Israeli, DVM is full of mental fecal matter still being pushed by
Rockefeller-like media moguls...

A "PHYSIC" FOR DR. ISRAELI...

I asked,

ARE CHIROPRACTORS PHYSICIANS?

Hillary answered: "No."

She was responding to my post about the fact that the federal gov't classes
chiropractors as physicians and 30 states permit doctors of chiropractic to
refer to themselves
as 'chiropractic physicians'...

In response to this latter info, Hillary wrote:

"So what? How is that at all relevant to the question of whether or not
chiropractors are physicians? Chiropractors are chiropractors. This is not
a rocket-scientist level question..."
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain

NOTE: Previously, Hillary has written that people interested in
chiropractic should visit one of the above mentioned "Quackbuster" Stephen
Barrett, MD websites...

"Consider looking at http://www.chirobase.org if you're interested in
chiropractic. Suffice it
to say it is not my cup of tea...the way I [feel] about
chiropractic...[might]...**** anyone off."
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain

Hillary,

As noted above, your source for chiropractic LIES BY OMISSION. See above.

Above all, chiropractors are DOCTORS of chiropractic (as you know, the word
doctor derives from "docere" the Latin word for teacher)...

Chiropractic was defined by its Founder Dr. DD Palmer (in part) as "the
mental act of accumulating knowledge." "Chiropractic came as an educator,"
he said.

When I asked the Dorland's Chief Lexicographer to change the Dorland's
definition of "doctor" to include graduates of chiropractic colleges...

He took the opportunity to also include graduates of veterinary colleges (as
well as graduates of other health care colleges - I think I've noted this
for you before).

Important question: WHY wasn't Dorland's Illustrated Medical Dictionary
including graduates of chiropractic colleges and others in the definition of
"doctor"?

The Dorland's omission was likely a reflection of turn of the century
political/media positioning of medics/MDs by Rockefeller, Sr. et al.

When Rockefeller, Sr. went into "medical philanthropy" (read:
"pharmaceutical promotion") he made sure his 'physic'ians - his MD/medic
drug salesmen/prescribers - were the ONLY people to be called "Dr." by the
media he dominated.

Here's an excerpt of an article about Rockefeller, Sr.'s power...

Quoting from CIVIS Foundation Report number 15, Fall-Winter 1993
CIVIS: POB 152, Via Motta 51-CH 6900, Massagno/Lugano, Switzerland:

THE INTELLECTUALS - A BARGAIN

For all his innate cynicism, [John D. Rockefeller] must have been
himself surprised to discover how easily the so-called intellectuals
could be bought. Indeed, they turned out to be among his best
investments.

By founding and lavishly endowing his Education Boards at home and
abroad, Rockefeller won control not only of the governments and
politicos but also of the intellectual and scientific community,
starting with the Medical Power - the organization that forms those
priests of the New Religion that are the modern medicine men. No
Pulitzer or Nobel or any similar prize endowed with money and prestige
has ever been awarded to a declared foe of the Rockefeller system...

Emanuel M. Josephson, M.D., whom the Drug Trust has been unable to
intimidate despite many attempts, pointed out that the National
Association of Science Writers was "persuaded" to adopt as part of its
code of ethics the following chestnut: "Science editors are incapable of
judging the facts of phenomena involved in medical and scientific
discovery. Therefore, they only report 'discoveries' approved by medical
authorities, or those presented before a body of scientific peers."
--Excerpted from CIVIS Foundation Report number 15, Fall-Winter 1993
CIVIS: POB 152, Via Motta 51-CH 6900, Massagno/Lugano, Switzerland
http://www.novivisection.org.uk/civis15b.html
http://csf.colorado.edu/forums/medso.../msg00193.html

There are newservices and reporters who STILL don't refer to chiros (or
vets!) as "Dr." as a consequence of Rockefeller, Sr. et al.'s influence on
the media.

KEY POINT: Vets use drugs ("physic") and don't have to compete with
medics - chiros do - and there's the rub:

As I noted in my post "Are chiropractors physicians"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2111...

MDs are trying to OWN the power word "physician" and - more importantly -
use it as a way to determine who gets paid and how much for SUPPOSEDLY
identical services. (It turns out, MDs aren't all that they crack themselves
up to be in important parts of health care - largely because of an
anti-scientific 'physic' past that persists to this day. More on this
below.)

EARLY "PHYSIC"IANS USED "PHYSIC" TO EMPTY BOWELS OF FECAL MATTER...

Original "PHYSIC"IANS were so called because they mostly administered
"PHYSIC" to empty bowels of fecal matter. The art of medicine and of
therapeutics was NAMED after the administration of "physic" - "a medicine,
esp. a cathartic." - "cathartic...causing emptying of the bowels."
[Dorland's Illustrated Medical Dictionary 29th ed. 2000]

"Physic"ians later expanded to emptying MINDS of "fecal matter" ("repressed
material") as in, "catharsis...purgation [emptying the bowels, as by a
medicine...in psychiatry, release of ideas, thoughts, and repressed material
from the unconscious..." [Dorland's Illustrated Medical Dictionary 29th ed.
2000]

"Physic"ians ANTI-COMPETITIVELY and ANTI-SCIENTIFICALLY profited from the
administration of "physic" - and - I say again - they expanded the "physic"
notion to include hypothetical "release" of "material" from the unconscious
mind.

(I think this is where "physic"ian neurologists split from "physic"ian
psychiatrists.)

"Physic"ians are STILL anti-competitively and anti-scientifically profit
from the administration of "physic" - mothers and babies be damned.

"Physic"ians have a history of practicing QUACKERY (unproven therapeutics)
all the while CENSORING non-"physic"ians by calling THEM quacks.

WHAT is the difference between an MD "physic"ian psychiatrist
("Quackbuster" Barrett?) releasing hypothetical "material" from the
unconscious mind - and a DC physician orthopedist releasing/mobilizing
hypothetical vertebral subluxations?!

Whatever the difference, when it finally became clear that MD-"physic"ians
were just as quack-like as non-MD physicians (chiropractic physicians)...a
jury trial was engineered called Wilk v. AMA...

Wilk v. AMA got underway (1983) as organized medicine and PharmCos were
petitioning Congress (they failed) for total immunity from liability for the
mass vaccination behavior of MDs...

Wilk v. AMA started up again (1986) when organized medicine and PharmCos
AGAIN petitioned Congress - this time for LESS immunity from liability for
the mass vaccination behavior of MDs...

See VACCINATION SUBLUXATION! (Thimerosal: Sen Frist subluxating VICA)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2156

Non-MD physicians (chiropractic physicians) won the battle in Wilk v. AMA -
but they lost the WAR.

Chiropractic physicians lost the protection of the Sherman Act as organized
medicine got VIRTUAL immunity from liability for the mass vaccination
behavior of MDs...

See US Atty Genl to 'quackbust' CSICOP 'skeptics'? (For PJ Lisa via Tim
Bolen)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2021

It's 2003 and MDs and PharmCos are going back for TOTAL immunity from
liability - like they did in 1983...

See again: VACCINATION SUBLUXATION! (Thimerosal: Sen Frist subluxating VICA)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2156

As noted in VACCINATION SUBLUXATION! - MDs are FRAUDULENTLY administering
"physic" - failing to make simple reports to establish the safety of their
"physic."

I'd like the chiropractic trade unions to take action by the September 2003
ACA House of Delegates meeting...

See Chiro orthopedists and global UNREST - and babies...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2030

But I suspect that too many chiros are paralyzed with fear that their
ongoing (relatively inocuous^^^) radiation crime will be
exposed...

I think my willingness to discuss chiropractic's ongoing (relatively
inocuous^^^) radiation crime is the reason I am still censored from posting
to the Dziuba/Cronshaw (now Zaleski/Dubin) version of chirolist.

^^^See Ufberg, Calif. Chiro Bd perpetuate DC radiation fraud
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/1220

AFTER CHIROS LOST THE WAR IN WILK v. AMA...

"Physic"ians kept practicing their obvious quackery/"medical science" and
simply renamed other people's quackery "complementary and alternative
medicine/CAM."

Chiropractic physicans seem to be going along with the newer "nicer" medical
gag...

Which brings me back to my "physic"/KEY POINT for Dr. Israeli the vet: Vets
don't have to compete with medics - chiros do - and there's the rub: MDs
are trying to own the word "physician" and use it (in laws and regs) as a
way to determine who gets paid and how much for SUPPOSEDLY identical
services.

MDs are claiming they should get paid more for diagnosis and treatment of
musculoskeletal problems - the current focus of chiropractic physician
practice - even though MDs are demonstrably "inadequate" in this area of
practice.

See medical testimony in the 1987 Wilk v. AMA case. (One can buy a book
about the Wilk v. AMA case authored by one of the plaintiffs, Chester Wilk,
DC at .)

See also: Freedman KB, Bernstein J. J Bone Joint Surg Am. 1998
Oct;80(10):1421-7 (PubMed abstract excerpt): "A basic familiarity with
musculoskeletal disorders is essential for all medical school
graduates...[S]eventy (82 per cent) of eighty-five medical school graduates
failed a valid musculoskeletal competency examination. We therefore believe
that medical school preparation in musculoskeletal medicine is inadequate."

(Perhaps new DCs would also fail Freedman et al.'s "valid musculoskeletal
competency exam"? I doubt it - but of course I'm biased, being a chiro
myself!)

One thing is for su Medical school preparation in musculoskeletal
medicine SUCKS!

Just how bad *is* medical school preparation in musculoskeletal medicine?

MDs are senselessly closing birth canals and gruesomely manipulating most
babies' spines at birth.

MD-"physic"ians are committing CRIME...

Some babies are DYING from the gruesome mass MD spinal manipulation crime...

MDs are killing an estimated six babies per DAY with vacuum-assisted spinal
manipulation alone - with birth canals senselessly closed up to 30%...

See USUAL MECHANISM (PS5) in my article, "Pregnant chiro patients: BIZARRE
chiro legislation - babies be damned..."
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2135

Hillary, you questioned the sanity of medical school (see above).

MUCH medical school is INSANITY - a consequence of forcing academic prime
cuts through this culture's most powerful mental meatgrinder - medical
school - which I why I favor pardons in advance for MDs.

MDs - economic competitors of DCs - are frauds of the highest order. (NOTE:
I am *not* saying this excuses chiro fraud - indeed I wish to see chiro
fraud adjusted immediately. See again: Ufberg, Calif. Chiro Bd perpetuate
DC radiation fraud
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/1220

MD political power today does NOT derive from science but rather from turn
of the century political positioning and media dominance by the people who
STILL pull "physic"ian strings - to sell more "physic."

MDs are puppets for profits - DRUG profits - "physic" profits - mothers and
babies be damned.

MDs deserve neither exclusive use of the power word "physician" nor further
remuneration for their obvious ongoing frauds.

Thanks for reading, Hillary,

Sincerely,

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo


PS If it were in my power, I would ABOLISH TITULAR ETIQUETTE ENTIRELY. But
this is not in my power. **MDs** are in power - and they are crookedly
trying to use their power to further their power - with a word - physician.
I will be working to get the definition of "physician" changed in Dorland's
and other dictionaries. "Physic"ians are doing FAR more than they did when
chiropractic Founder Dr. DD Palmer was alive - and they are doing so much of
it obviously POORLY - obviously criminally.

BOTTOMLINE FOR HILLARY: The fact that the federal gov't classes
chiropractors as physicians and 30 states permit them to refer to themselves
as 'chiropractic physicians' is QUITE relevant - both to the question of
whether or not chiropractors are physicians - and more importantly to the
question of whether chiropractors will attain the cultural authority (and
courage) to finally take action to stop obvious MD crime against babies.

CONGRESSMAN MANZULLO PERPETUATING X-RAY/SUBLUXATION FRAUD

Rep. Donald Manzullo, a Republican in the AMA's home state of Illinois has
introduced a "chiropractic" bill - HR 2560 - a SECOND federal law which
perpetuates the inference that there is scientific evidence that vertebral
subluxations exist and cause disease and stop causing disease when
adjusted...

Rep. Manzullo's chief of staff Adam Magary actually STATES the
x-ray/subluxation fraud!

"Does [it] not seem absurd to anyone...[Office of Inspector General
personnel] say the service is not necessary but they do not look at the
x-rays that objectively demonstrate the existence of subluxation." [Magary
A. Open Letter regarding HR 2560. The Chiropractic Journal (2950 N. Dobson
Rd., #1, Chandler, AZ 85224 800-347-1011) Vol. 17, No. 12, September
2003:37]

On the plus side (for Hillary): Rep. Manzullo's bill would remove DCs from
Medicare's "physician" category.

BACKGROUND...

Some have called Rep Manzullo's bill "WCA's bill."

World Chiropractic Alliance/WCA Pres. Terry Rondberg, DC offers this
correction:

"First of all, HR 2560 is not a 'WCA bill.' It is a bill introduced by Rep.
Donald Manzullo and endorsed and supported by the Chiropractic Coalition..."
[Rondberg quoting himself in his (WCA's) Chiropractic Journal, Vol. 17, No.
12, September 2003:31]

To my knowledge, Rondberg and the Chiropractic Coalition have offered NO
scientific evidence that vertebral subluxations exist and cause disease,
etc.

As I noted for Rondberg (still no response yet), Owens indicates that there
is no such scientific evidence...

See Pregnant chiro patients: BIZARRE
chiro legislation - babies be damned...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2135

Here is ACA attorney Tom Daly's analysis of HR 2560: (SUMMARY: Rep
Manzullo's proposal would remove chiros from the definition of physician and
as a consequence chiro services would be valued along the same lines of the
"much lower valued non-physician manual therapy codes"...)

According to Daly:

"According to the chiropractic representatives on both AMA-CPT HCPAC and RUC
HCPAC, [Rep. Manzullo's] HR 2560 would require a change in the current CMT
codes - from 'chiropractic manipulative therapy' to something like
'chiropractic adjustment therapy'...The new 'CAT' codes would then go under
the process of review by the RUC for the assignment of new relative values.
In that process, the profession would no longer be able to compare the
relative values to the osteopathic manipulative therapy/OMT codes, as was
successfully done in 1996, because of the [Manzullo-proposed] change in
definition from manipulation to adjustment...In addition, the current CMT
Codes include: 1) some history, 2) some examination, and 3) some clinical
decision-making that only a physician can perform. These are not included
in non-physician services, such as 97140 (manual therapy techniques). HR
2560 would remove chiropractors from the definition of physician and
therefore the [Manzullo-proposed] new CAT codes could not include the higher
valued physician component, but rather would be valued along the same lines
of the much lower valued non-physician manual therapy codes..." ACA
attorney Tom Daly quoted by ACA chairman James Edwards in Rondberg's The
Chiropractic Journal, Vol. 17, No. 12, September 2003:front page,
30,31,32,33.

MY PERSONAL TAKE: Rep. Manzullo's bill should be defeated. Why should DCs
be FURTHER taxed by Medicare as Medicare pays $7 BILLION per year to help
train MDs and DOs to ignore science, close birth canals and GRUESOMELY
manipulate most babies' spines at birth (among other obvious MD and DO
crimes)???

See Awesome breasts! OBs causing otitis media? (also: 'Osteopathic' v.
'Chiropractic' manipulation)...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2159

MY SOLUTION: Stop the x-ray/subluxation fraud that medical lobbiests got
Congress to pass (over the objections of chiros) - AND stop the obvious MD
and DO fraud. NOW.

"MEDICAL SCIENCE"...

In response to my post, Are chiropractors physicians?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2111

Jeffrey P. Utz, MD replied:

"[I don't think chiropractors should be allowed to call themselves
physicians]...the theory behind chiropractic is not supported by medical
science..."
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain

Jeff "forgets"... "Medical science" is mostly monumental MD arrogance - the
basis for *massive* amounts of obvious health fraud...

As noted above,

"[T]he intellectual foundation of medical care...is...whatever a
physician decides is by definition correct." [Eddy DM. The challenge.
(Jan12)1990 JAMA]

Here is an interesting companion quote:

"There is one quotation that captures the essence of what membership in
both the AMA and our state medical associations is all about...'Joining
the AMA is like joining a church...' [Hopkins D reviewing Campion FD: The
AMA and U.S. Health Policy Since 1940, 1984, Review Press: Chicago, IL.
In Western J Med, 1985;142(2):273]

FINALLY THIS...

I asked tongue-in-cheek on the subject line and at the beginning of this
post: "'Physic'ian Orac, MD, PhD: Did he get his PhD out of a cereal box?"

I believe Cardiologist Chung - "Orac" is an MD/PhD.

MDs could go to prison if all their massive crimes were prosecuted.

See again: Johns Hopkins breast/vagina/penis power! (How America can
INSTANTLY save $200 million per year...)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2108

This is why MDs lie by omission instead of helping babies.

As always, I am in favor of pardons in advance for MDs. MDs are just
academic prime cuts forced through this culture's most powerful mental
meatgrinder - medical school.

Thanks for reading, everyone,

Sincerely,

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo


Brian Zaleski, DC: Please forward this to the CENSORED version of chirolist
)...

Please also forward to the ACA and CCA listservs.

Hopefully SOME delegates/ACA members attending the Sept. 16-20 ACA House of
Delegates meeting in Albuquerque will speak out in opposition to the obvious
MD and DO crimes.

At the very least "neuromusculoskeletal" ACA delegates should protest MDs
and DOs senselessly closing birth canals and gruesomely manipulating most
babies' spines at birth....

Tentative Meeting schedule
BOG Meeting Sept. 16-17
Committee & Caucus Meetings Sept. 17
Council of Delegates Meeting Sept. 18
House of Delegates Meeting Sept. 19-20
Educational Programs Sept. 20
http://www.amerchiro.org/about/hod2003/hotel_info.shtml

The 2004 ACA House of Delegates Meeting will be held at the Renaissance
Vinoy Resort and Golf Club in St. Petersburg, FL.

Maybe ACA will have acted to help the tiniest chiropractic patients by
2004...

Hey! Maybe Banyan CEO Attorney Michael Gelmon (Chiropractic USA is a Banyan
subsidiary) will take action!

LOS ANGELES--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Sept. 8, 2003--Banyan Corporation (OTC
BB:BANY) subsidiary, Chiropractic USA, Inc. (Chiropractic USA), on September
1, 2003, opened its first franchised clinics, with the conversion of various
chiropractic clinics in California, Hawaii, Michigan, Louisiana and Florida
into Chiropractic USA franchised clinics.

Banyan Chief Executive Officer Michael Gelmon said, "These established
clinics are all now operating and trading under the name 'Chiropractic USA.'
While this is only our first operational step in our franchise program, it
already represents annual system-wide revenues in excess of $6 million-and
this is just the beginning..."

ACA politico Bob Lynch, DC responded to the Chiropractic USA news by
whining: "How does this make everyone feel, when [CJ Mertz, DC] the
president of the ICA is involved in a business dealing like this one? Can DR
Mertz really say as the leader of the ICA, he is working for the profession
while involved in a business deal such as this one?"

Banyan Corporation, 800-808-0899, Investor Relations: 877-980-3114

I cc Banyan CEO/Attorney Michael at

Attorney Michael, please forward this to your business associate CJ Mertz,
DC, now president of ICA...

Maybe ICA (and Chiropractic USA) will take action before ACA...

Maybe the tiniest chiropractic patients will get help from ICA and
Chiropractic USA - while ACA picks its nose...

Anything's possible in "the fast political shuffle of chiropractic."

Bob Lynch, DC: The chiro trade unions are SUPPOSED to be working FIRST for
patients and public health - and THEN for chiropractic - or do I have that
backwards?


snipped

If one's bones, joints, and Spine are mis-aligned...he/she has TROBLE in River City!
Accidents by any means can cause spinal damage and a GOOD chiropractor who KNOWS his/her business inside and
out is of definite use. I do agree about Osteopaths though...they
"almost a doctor" without having done "rotations" to see what it's all about! Some, but few, are ......good.
Most are barely aking it and are dis-appearing gradually from the scene! SOme are smart and continue their
medical education and do ROTAIONS for the needed practice!
Even a GOOD lab-tech does this!! B-0b1

  #3  
Old September 18th 03, 07:16 PM
Hillary Israeli
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default A 'physic' for Dr. Israeli/'Physic'ian Orac, MD, PhD: Did he get his PhD out of a cereal box?

In . net,
Todd Gastaldo wrote:

*"PHYSIC"IANS... See below...
*
*A "PHYSIC" FOR DR. ISRAELI
*
*Hillary Israeli, DVM... Rep. Don Manzullo has proposed a SECOND (bogus)

Who the hell is that?

Can't you READ, Todd??

*HILLARY ISRAELI, VMD - who likely administers "physic" to animals - SKIPPED

Oh, there you go, you got it right this time. So you're just inconsistent.
Big surprise, there.

*I MENTION THE MEDICAL SCHOOL MENTAL MEATGRINDER BECAUSE HILLARY ASKS ON HER
*WEB SITE:
*
*"If there is anyone out there who thinks it is sane or normal to put
*yourself through what we go through in veterinary school - and I assume
*law/med students have it the same - well, just let me know, because I'm not
*so sure about it myself."
*--Hillary Israeli, VMD
*http://www.hillary.net/op-ed_new.html
*
*Hillary: Law and vet students do not tie babies to boards and make them
*scream and writhe and bleed through American medicine's obviously illegal
*most frequent surgical behavior toward males...

Correct. We do not. So - your point is, what exactly??

*Vet students likely do cut off puppy tails though... : (

No, that's not true. I mean, I suppose some might, just as for all I know
some law or med students tie babies to boards and do things to them, but
for the most part, no, veterinary students do not cut off puppy tails.
Well, wait - I do believe I participated in one tail amputation in vet
school, a puppy who got his tail caught in a car door and needed the
amputation completed did come into the emergency room one night and they
let me do it. Ok, So just one puppy tail.

*As I indicated at the outset of this post... *
*Hillary Israeli, DVM is full of mental fecal matter still being pushed by
*Rockefeller-like media moguls...

And you bring up this unknown DVM again. Hmm. Whatever.

*Hillary, you questioned the sanity of medical school (see above).
*
*MUCH medical school is INSANITY - a consequence of forcing academic prime
*cuts through this culture's most powerful mental meatgrinder - medical
*school - which I why I favor pardons in advance for MDs.

I think you completely missed my point, actually, but that's ok. You're
cracking me up, here.

*Thanks for reading, Hillary,

Wouldn't have missed it for the world, Todd. You made my day.

*PS If it were in my power, I would ABOLISH TITULAR ETIQUETTE ENTIRELY. But

Titular etiquette? You mean like discreetly nursing in public? Tee hee.

*BOTTOMLINE FOR HILLARY: The fact that the federal gov't classes
*chiropractors as physicians and 30 states permit them to refer to themselves

The federal government does a lot of things. Many of them are stupid and
wrong. What's your point again?

*See Awesome breasts! OBs causing otitis media? (also: 'Osteopathic' v.
*'Chiropractic' manipulation)...
*http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2159

WHAT?? Awesome breasts?? Um, okaaaaayyyyy.

*Jeffrey P. Utz, MD replied:
*
*"[I don't think chiropractors should be allowed to call themselves
*physicians]...the theory behind chiropractic is not supported by medical
*science..."
*
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain

Oh, cool, I'm quoted in the same post as Jeff. Now you REALLY made my
day!!!!

-hillary

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large
  #4  
Old September 18th 03, 07:20 PM
Circe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default A 'physic' for Dr. Israeli/'Physic'ian Orac, MD, PhD: Did he get his PhD out of a cereal box?

"Hillary Israeli" wrote in message
...
*PS If it were in my power, I would ABOLISH TITULAR ETIQUETTE ENTIRELY.

But

Titular etiquette? You mean like discreetly nursing in public? Tee hee.

Oh Hillary. ROTFLMAO! Yep. It's all about AWESOME BREASTS.

Honestly, you've got more stick-to-it-iveness than I do if you got all the
way through one of Todd's post. I can never make it through the past couple
of lines. They remind me of the closet in _Zoboomafoo_--full of all kinds of
unrelated things that fall on your head when you open them.
--
Be well, Barbara (still laughing)
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [18mo] mom)
See us at http://photos.yahoo.com/guavaln

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
"No parking passed this sign" -- hotel parking lot sign

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman


  #5  
Old September 18th 03, 07:37 PM
Hillary Israeli
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default A 'physic' for Dr. Israeli/'Physic'ian Orac, MD, PhD: Did he get his PhD out of a cereal box?

In 6Imab.41292$n94.31008@fed1read04,
Circe wrote:

*"Hillary Israeli" wrote in message
...
* *PS If it were in my power, I would ABOLISH TITULAR ETIQUETTE ENTIRELY.
*But
*
* Titular etiquette? You mean like discreetly nursing in public? Tee hee.
*
*Oh Hillary. ROTFLMAO! Yep. It's all about AWESOME BREASTS.
*
*Honestly, you've got more stick-to-it-iveness than I do if you got all the
*way through one of Todd's post. I can never make it through the past couple
*of lines. They remind me of the closet in _Zoboomafoo_--full of all kinds of
*unrelated things that fall on your head when you open them.

Well, I skimmed, and searched for my name, mostly

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large
  #6  
Old September 18th 03, 10:24 PM
Todd Gastaldo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default DVM v. VMD - and puppy dog tails (was A 'physic' for Dr. Israeli/'Physic'ian Orac, MD, PhD: Did he get his PhD out of a cereal box?)

A 'physic' for Dr. Israeli/'Physic'ian Orac, MD, PhD: Did he get his PhD out
of a cereal box?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2158



Hillary Israeli, VMD "responded"...


"Hillary Israeli" wrote in message
...
In . net,
Todd Gastaldo wrote:

*"PHYSIC"IANS... See below...
*
*A "PHYSIC" FOR DR. ISRAELI
*
*Hillary Israeli, DVM... Rep. Don Manzullo has proposed a SECOND (bogus)

Who the hell is that?

Can't you READ, Todd??



#### Hillary, sorry to have confused DVM and VMD. My understanding is that
there is no difference, as in,

"What's the difference between a DVM and a VMD? No difference! All of the
Schools of Veterinary Medicine in this country grant the DVM (Doctor of
Veterinary Medicine) degree except one. The University of Pennsylvania
grants the VMD degree (Veterinary Medical Doctor)."
http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache...hl=en&ie=UTF-8

See also: http://www.foxmooranimalhospital.com/faq.htm#1003757385

#### Please correct me if I am wrong about there being no difference between
DVM and VMD.

*HILLARY ISRAELI, VMD - who likely administers "physic" to animals -

SKIPPED

Oh, there you go, you got it right this time. So you're just inconsistent.
Big surprise, there.


##### Again, sorry to have confused DVM and VMD. If you perceive any other
inconsistencies - or errors - please point them out - preferably publicly.
Specifically, I would like you to address the obvious MD crimes I so
consistently and persistently protest. For example, if you do not agree
with me that MDs are senselessly closing birth canals and should not push or
pull on a babies' head in late second stage until they get the mother off
her butt/back//off her sacrum - please tell me WHY.


*I MENTION THE MEDICAL SCHOOL MENTAL MEATGRINDER BECAUSE HILLARY ASKS ON

HER
*WEB SITE:
*
*"If there is anyone out there who thinks it is sane or normal to put
*yourself through what we go through in veterinary school - and I assume
*law/med students have it the same - well, just let me know, because I'm

not
*so sure about it myself."
*--Hillary Israeli, VMD
*http://www.hillary.net/op-ed_new.html
*
*Hillary: Law and vet students do not tie babies to boards and make them
*scream and writhe and bleed through American medicine's obviously illegal
*most frequent surgical behavior toward males...

Correct. We do not. So - your point is, what exactly??


##### My point ("exactly"), Hillary, is that law and vet students have it
easier than med students, many of these latter tie babies to boards and make
them scream and writhe and bleed through an obviously illegal procedure.

##### MDs and RNs who have watched it call it torture or use some similar
descriptor...

*Vet students likely do cut off puppy tails though... : (

No, that's not true. I mean, I suppose some might, just as for all I know
some law or med students tie babies to boards and do things to them, but
for the most part, no, veterinary students do not cut off puppy tails.
Well, wait - I do believe I participated in one tail amputation in vet
school, a puppy who got his tail caught in a car door and needed the
amputation completed did come into the emergency room one night and they
let me do it. Ok, So just one puppy tail.


#### My understanding is that some breeds must have their tails amputated
in order to compete in dog shows. I had always thought that ALL vets did a
few puppy tail amputations - sort of like how all med students used to
amputate part of babies' penises. I guess vet and med schools are currently
not trying to require everyone to participate in the gruesome acts. I guess
this is progress.

*As I indicated at the outset of this post... *
*Hillary Israeli, DVM is full of mental fecal matter still being pushed by
*Rockefeller-like media moguls...

And you bring up this unknown DVM again. Hmm. Whatever.


##### Again, my understanding is that DVM and VMD are equivalent degrees.
Sorry to have confused them.

*Hillary, you questioned the sanity of medical school (see above).
*
*MUCH medical school is INSANITY - a consequence of forcing academic prime
*cuts through this culture's most powerful mental meatgrinder - medical
*school - which I why I favor pardons in advance for MDs.

I think you completely missed my point, actually, but that's ok. You're
cracking me up, here.


##### MDs are committing obvious crimes against mothers and babies,
Hillary. It is sad that you find amusing these crimes or my idea of pardons
in advance to end them sooner...

*Thanks for reading, Hillary,

Wouldn't have missed it for the world, Todd. You made my day.


#### Good to hear it.

*PS If it were in my power, I would ABOLISH TITULAR ETIQUETTE ENTIRELY.

But

Titular etiquette? You mean like discreetly nursing in public? Tee hee.


#### No, Hillary. I mean like you reading that the federal gov't and most
states refer to chiros as "physicians" - yet you say chiros aren't
physicians.... I mean like you pretending that "physic"ians (bowel
emptiers) can blithely continue to commit obvious crimes against mothers and
babies.

*BOTTOMLINE FOR HILLARY: The fact that the federal gov't classes
*chiropractors as physicians and 30 states permit them to refer to

themselves

The federal government does a lot of things. Many of them are stupid and
wrong. What's your point again?


#### You are pretending that "physic"ians (bowel emptiers) can blithely
continue to commit obvious crimes against mothers and babies.

*See Awesome breasts! OBs causing otitis media? (also: 'Osteopathic' v.
*'Chiropractic' manipulation)...
*http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2159

WHAT?? Awesome breasts?? Um, okaaaaayyyyy.


##### Breasts are IMMUNIZATION devices! They are indeed awesome!

See (again) the article cited at the beginning of the post to which you
"responded": Awesome breasts! OBs causing otitis media? (also:
'Osteopathic' v.
'Chiropractic' manipulation)...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2159

*Jeffrey P. Utz, MD replied:
*
*"[I don't think chiropractors should be allowed to call themselves
*physicians]...the theory behind chiropractic is not supported by medical
*science..."

*
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...airnews.net&oe
=UTF-8&output=gplain

Oh, cool, I'm quoted in the same post as Jeff. Now you REALLY made my
day!!!!


##### Again, it is good to hear that I made your day Hillary... You are
not unlike Jeff who also ignoring obvious MD crimes - mothers and babies be
damned...

##### As I noted/most of which you snipped...

"MEDICAL SCIENCE"...

In response to my post, Are chiropractors physicians?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2111

Jeffrey P. Utz, MD replied:

"[I don't think chiropractors should be allowed to call themselves
physicians]...the theory behind chiropractic is not supported by medical
science..."
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...net&oe =UTF-\
8&output=gplain

Jeff "forgets"... "Medical science" is mostly monumental MD arrogance - the
basis for *massive* amounts of obvious health fraud...

As noted above,

"[T]he intellectual foundation of medical care...is...whatever a
physician decides is by definition correct." [Eddy DM. The challenge.
(Jan12)1990 JAMA]

Here is an interesting companion quote:

"There is one quotation that captures the essence of what membership in
both the AMA and our state medical associations is all about...'Joining
the AMA is like joining a church...' [Hopkins D reviewing Campion FD: The
AMA and U.S. Health Policy Since 1940, 1984, Review Press: Chicago, IL.
In Western J Med, 1985;142(2):273]

See again: A 'physic' for Dr. Israeli/'Physic'ian Orac, MD, PhD: Did he get
his PhD out of a cereal box?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2158

Thanks for reading,

Sincerely,

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo



  #7  
Old September 18th 03, 10:49 PM
Todd Gastaldo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Breastfeeding TITular etiquette: GOOD ONE HILLARY! (was A 'physic' for Dr. Israeli/'Physic'ian Orac, MD, PhD: Did he get his PhD out of a cereal box?)

"Circe" wrote in message
news:6Imab.41292$n94.31008@fed1read04...
"Hillary Israeli" wrote in message
...
*PS If it were in my power, I would ABOLISH TITULAR ETIQUETTE ENTIRELY.

But

Titular etiquette? You mean like discreetly nursing in public? Tee hee.

Oh Hillary. ROTFLMAO! Yep. It's all about AWESOME BREASTS.

Honestly, you've got more stick-to-it-iveness than I do if you got all the
way through one of Todd's post. I can never make it through the past

couple
of lines. They remind me of the closet in _Zoboomafoo_--full of all kinds

of
unrelated things that fall on your head when you open them.
--
Be well, Barbara (still laughing)
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [18mo] mom)
See us at http://photos.yahoo.com/guavaln


Barbara,

As you ROTFLYAO (roll on the floor and laugh your ass off)...

Hillary's ostensibly "pro-immunization" MD-'physic'ians lie by omission and
(as a consequence) roughly half of American babies never get free daily
immunizations - BREAST immunizations that reportedly make baby immune
systems (and MD-needle vaccinations) work better.

What woman - explicitly so informed by CDC and MDs - is going to fail to at
least ATTEMPT to give her baby free daily immunizations?

Breasts *are* awesome - IMMUNIZATION-wise - and otherwise...

See again: Awesome breasts! OBs causing otitis media? (also: 'Osteopathic'
v.
'Chiropractic' manipulation)...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2159

Titular etiquette...Discreetly nursing in public...

GOOD ONE HILLARY!

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo



See also: DVM v. VMD - and puppy dog tails (was A 'physic' for Dr.
Israeli/'Physic'ian Orac, MD, PhD: Did he get his PhD out of a cereal box?)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2160


  #8  
Old September 18th 03, 11:57 PM
Orac
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default A 'physic' for Dr. Israeli/'Physic'ian Orac, MD, PhD: Did he get his PhD out of a cereal box?

In article 6Imab.41292$n94.31008@fed1read04,
"Circe" wrote:

"Hillary Israeli" wrote in message
...


*PS If it were in my power, I would ABOLISH TITULAR ETIQUETTE ENTIRELY.

But

Titular etiquette? You mean like discreetly nursing in public? Tee hee.

Oh Hillary. ROTFLMAO! Yep. It's all about AWESOME BREASTS.

Honestly, you've got more stick-to-it-iveness than I do if you got all the
way through one of Todd's post. I can never make it through the past couple
of lines. They remind me of the closet in _Zoboomafoo_--full of all kinds of
unrelated things that fall on your head when you open them.


Indeed. My 'nym was mentioned in the Subject: header, and even I
couldn't wade through the entirety of the incoherent mess that was
Todd's original post (which is why I didn't bother to respond, if Todd
is curious to know why). If he has a coherent point to make and can make
it without ad hominem attacks (such as the "cereal box" comment), by all
means let him make it, and I'll respond if I deem it appropriate to do
so.
--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"
  #10  
Old September 19th 03, 01:17 AM
Hillary Israeli
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default DVM v. VMD - and puppy dog tails (was A 'physic' for Dr. Israeli/'Physic'ian Orac, MD, PhD: Did he get his PhD out of a cereal box?)

In . net,
Todd Gastaldo wrote:

*
*#### Hillary, sorry to have confused DVM and VMD. My understanding is that
*there is no difference, as in,
*
*"What's the difference between a DVM and a VMD? No difference! All of the
*Schools of Veterinary Medicine in this country grant the DVM (Doctor of
*Veterinary Medicine) degree except one. The University of Pennsylvania
*grants the VMD degree (Veterinary Medical Doctor)."
*http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache...hl=en&ie=UTF-8
*
*See also: http://www.foxmooranimalhospital.com/faq.htm#1003757385
*
*#### Please correct me if I am wrong about there being no difference between
*DVM and VMD.

There is no practical difference between the actual degrees. The written
representation thereof, however, is clearly not the same - one is DVM, the
other is VMD. It's similar to the difference between, say, Todd and Tddo.

*##### My point ("exactly"), Hillary, is that law and vet students have it
*easier than med students, many of these latter tie babies to boards and make
*them scream and writhe and bleed through an obviously illegal procedure.

You think? Well, I don't think so (don't think we have it easier, don't
think they tie babies to boards and make them scream and writhe and bleed,
and don't think they are performing an obviously illegal procedure, in
case you thought I was unclear).

* *Vet students likely do cut off puppy tails though... : (
*
* No, that's not true. I mean, I suppose some might, just as for all I know
* some law or med students tie babies to boards and do things to them, but
* for the most part, no, veterinary students do not cut off puppy tails.
* Well, wait - I do believe I participated in one tail amputation in vet
* school, a puppy who got his tail caught in a car door and needed the
* amputation completed did come into the emergency room one night and they
* let me do it. Ok, So just one puppy tail.
*
*
*#### My understanding is that some breeds must have their tails amputated
*in order to compete in dog shows.

Yes, some breeds do require that.

*I had always thought that ALL vets did a
*few puppy tail amputations - sort of like how all med students used to

Nope.

*##### Again, my understanding is that DVM and VMD are equivalent degrees.

Well, a BA and an AB are equivalent too, but it's not really nice to
ascribe the one to someone who has the other.

*##### MDs are committing obvious crimes against mothers and babies,

I'm sure some are. Similarly, mothers are committing crimes against babies
and probably against some MDs as well. Babies probably aren't committing
any crimes, at least.

*Hillary. It is sad that you find amusing these crimes or my idea of pardons
*in advance to end them sooner...

I don't find crime amusing. I find YOU amusing.

* *PS If it were in my power, I would ABOLISH TITULAR ETIQUETTE ENTIRELY.
*But
*
* Titular etiquette? You mean like discreetly nursing in public? Tee hee.
*
*
*#### No, Hillary. I mean like you reading that the federal gov't and most
*states refer to chiros as "physicians" - yet you say chiros aren't
*physicians.... I mean like you pretending that "physic"ians (bowel
*emptiers) can blithely continue to commit obvious crimes against mothers and
*babies.

The federal government also says marijuana is a narcotic. The federal
government constantly redefines words to mean what they want, and it is
completely irrelevant to what things actually are. You can't go by what
they say on stuff like this.

*#### You are pretending that "physic"ians (bowel emptiers) can blithely
*continue to commit obvious crimes against mothers and babies.

No, I'm not pretending any such thing.

*##### Breasts are IMMUNIZATION devices! They are indeed awesome!

Sure, they're awesome, but that isn't really relevent to the current
discussion, Todd.

"Titular etiquette," I'm going to have to write that down...

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large
 




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