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#11
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reading lists
Jeff wrote:
bizby40 wrote: "Jeff" wrote in message The books "Harry Potter and the Sorcere's Stone" and "Harry Potter and the Philsopher's Stone" were rated to be at different grade levels. Except for the name of the book and the stone within the book, they are basically the same book. But assuming that these were American grade levels, "Harry Potter and the Philsopher's Stone" might well be considered to be a slightly higher grade level book because it has more unfamiliar words. That would be like 1 in 10,000 words changed, all from philosopher's to socerer's or the other way around. So I don't think so. Wouldn't that depend on how the rating algorithm works? If it compiles a list of words and rates based on the highest level word, well, it would only take one word. I rather suspect the algorithm is significantly more complicated than that, but I believe there are far more word changes changing from British English to American English than just 1 in 10,000. Best wishes, Ericka |
#12
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reading lists
Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Jeff wrote: bizby40 wrote: "Jeff" wrote in message The books "Harry Potter and the Sorcere's Stone" and "Harry Potter and the Philsopher's Stone" were rated to be at different grade levels. Except for the name of the book and the stone within the book, they are basically the same book. But assuming that these were American grade levels, "Harry Potter and the Philsopher's Stone" might well be considered to be a slightly higher grade level book because it has more unfamiliar words. That would be like 1 in 10,000 words changed, all from philosopher's to socerer's or the other way around. So I don't think so. Wouldn't that depend on how the rating algorithm works? If it compiles a list of words and rates based on the highest level word, well, it would only take one word. I rather suspect the algorithm is significantly more complicated than that, but I believe there are far more word changes changing from British English to American English than just 1 in 10,000. There are. But, AFIK, only title changed. Obviously, they had to change the name of the stone in the book, too, or American readers would have been confused. The remaining books' text were identical in America and Britain. In fact, the only think I found odd about the whole thing (and with the Lord of the Rings, too), is that the actors who played the characters have such weird British accents. The funny thing is that when I read the books, they had American accents. Go figure. ;-) Jeff Best wishes, Ericka |
#13
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reading lists
Jeff wrote:
Ericka Kammerer wrote: Jeff wrote: bizby40 wrote: "Jeff" wrote in message The books "Harry Potter and the Sorcere's Stone" and "Harry Potter and the Philsopher's Stone" were rated to be at different grade levels. Except for the name of the book and the stone within the book, they are basically the same book. But assuming that these were American grade levels, "Harry Potter and the Philsopher's Stone" might well be considered to be a slightly higher grade level book because it has more unfamiliar words. That would be like 1 in 10,000 words changed, all from philosopher's to socerer's or the other way around. So I don't think so. Wouldn't that depend on how the rating algorithm works? If it compiles a list of words and rates based on the highest level word, well, it would only take one word. I rather suspect the algorithm is significantly more complicated than that, but I believe there are far more word changes changing from British English to American English than just 1 in 10,000. There are. But, AFIK, only title changed. Obviously, they had to change the name of the stone in the book, too, or American readers would have been confused. The remaining books' text were identical in America and Britain. Actually, there was a thread about this a while back and someone posted a website listing the changes. There were substantially more than just changing "philosopher's stone" to "sorceror's stone." Best wishes, Ericka |
#14
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reading lists
Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Jeff wrote: Ericka Kammerer wrote: Jeff wrote: bizby40 wrote: "Jeff" wrote in message The books "Harry Potter and the Sorcere's Stone" and "Harry Potter and the Philsopher's Stone" were rated to be at different grade levels. Except for the name of the book and the stone within the book, they are basically the same book. But assuming that these were American grade levels, "Harry Potter and the Philsopher's Stone" might well be considered to be a slightly higher grade level book because it has more unfamiliar words. That would be like 1 in 10,000 words changed, all from philosopher's to socerer's or the other way around. So I don't think so. Wouldn't that depend on how the rating algorithm works? If it compiles a list of words and rates based on the highest level word, well, it would only take one word. I rather suspect the algorithm is significantly more complicated than that, but I believe there are far more word changes changing from British English to American English than just 1 in 10,000. There are. But, AFIK, only title changed. Obviously, they had to change the name of the stone in the book, too, or American readers would have been confused. The remaining books' text were identical in America and Britain. Actually, there was a thread about this a while back and someone posted a website listing the changes. There were substantially more than just changing "philosopher's stone" to "sorceror's stone." Best wishes, Ericka You're right. They changed silly things like lookout to problem, and mad and crazy - like kids wouldn't figure these out. (I noticed they left in hose pipe, something I never heard of but quickly figured out.) They didn't change as much in the later editions. http://www.hp-lexicon.org/about/book...rences-ps.html That works out to around 75 changes around 75,000 words or a change every 1000 words, more or less. Jeff |
#15
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reading lists
Jeff wrote:
Ericka Kammerer wrote: Jeff wrote: bizby40 wrote: "Jeff" wrote in message The books "Harry Potter and the Sorcere's Stone" and "Harry Potter and the Philsopher's Stone" were rated to be at different grade levels. Except for the name of the book and the stone within the book, they are basically the same book. But assuming that these were American grade levels, "Harry Potter and the Philsopher's Stone" might well be considered to be a slightly higher grade level book because it has more unfamiliar words. [snip] It's possible (depending on which was supposed to be harder), that "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone" had a reading level in terms of British school years. Basically, Year 1 in Britain is 5-6yo kids, whereas US Grade 1 is 6-7yo (isn't it?). So if both of them were set up for the average 8-9yo to read, then the Philosopher's Stone might be labelled Year 4, but the Sorcerer's Stone Grade 3. It's only a small step for someone to put them onto the same list as different ages. [snip] In fact, the only think I found odd about the whole thing (and with the Lord of the Rings, too), is that the actors who played the characters have such weird British accents. The funny thing is that when I read the books, they had American accents. Go figure. ;-) They have perfectly normal British accents :-) -- Penny Gaines UK mum to three |
#16
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reading lists
Jeff wrote:
Ericka Kammerer wrote: Jeff wrote: Ericka Kammerer wrote: Jeff wrote: bizby40 wrote: "Jeff" wrote in message The books "Harry Potter and the Sorcere's Stone" and "Harry Potter and the Philsopher's Stone" were rated to be at different grade levels. Except for the name of the book and the stone within the book, they are basically the same book. But assuming that these were American grade levels, "Harry Potter and the Philsopher's Stone" might well be considered to be a slightly higher grade level book because it has more unfamiliar words. That would be like 1 in 10,000 words changed, all from philosopher's to socerer's or the other way around. So I don't think so. Wouldn't that depend on how the rating algorithm works? If it compiles a list of words and rates based on the highest level word, well, it would only take one word. I rather suspect the algorithm is significantly more complicated than that, but I believe there are far more word changes changing from British English to American English than just 1 in 10,000. There are. But, AFIK, only title changed. Obviously, they had to change the name of the stone in the book, too, or American readers would have been confused. The remaining books' text were identical in America and Britain. Actually, there was a thread about this a while back and someone posted a website listing the changes. There were substantially more than just changing "philosopher's stone" to "sorceror's stone." You're right. They changed silly things like lookout to problem, and mad and crazy - like kids wouldn't figure these out. (I noticed they left in hose pipe, something I never heard of but quickly figured out.) They didn't change as much in the later editions. http://www.hp-lexicon.org/about/book...rences-ps.html That works out to around 75 changes around 75,000 words or a change every 1000 words, more or less. But again, it's a matter of how the grading algorithm works. I don't know what the threshholds are, but I'll bet that there's something in there that compares the words in the book to a list of words assigned to particular levels. Exceed the threshhold, and poof! You go up a level. Best wishes, Ericka |
#17
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reading lists
Penny Gaines wrote:
Jeff wrote: Ericka Kammerer wrote: Jeff wrote: bizby40 wrote: "Jeff" wrote in message The books "Harry Potter and the Sorcere's Stone" and "Harry Potter and the Philsopher's Stone" were rated to be at different grade levels. Except for the name of the book and the stone within the book, they are basically the same book. But assuming that these were American grade levels, "Harry Potter and the Philsopher's Stone" might well be considered to be a slightly higher grade level book because it has more unfamiliar words. [snip] It's possible (depending on which was supposed to be harder), that "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone" had a reading level in terms of British school years. Basically, Year 1 in Britain is 5-6yo kids, whereas US Grade 1 is 6-7yo (isn't it?). So if both of them were set up for the average 8-9yo to read, then the Philosopher's Stone might be labelled Year 4, but the Sorcerer's Stone Grade 3. It's only a small step for someone to put them onto the same list as different ages. That's possible, but IIRC, they were specific for US grades or reading levels. I think it shows the reading levels are approximate, and changes in the program or, apparently, small, changes in the text can affect the reading level. [snip] In fact, the only think I found odd about the whole thing (and with the Lord of the Rings, too), is that the actors who played the characters have such weird British accents. The funny thing is that when I read the books, they had American accents. Go figure. ;-) They have perfectly normal British accents :-) Yeah, but not when I read the book (I mean when in my head)! |
#18
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reading lists
"Jeff" wrote in message news:_iZ8i.4909$554.1090@trnddc07... bizby40 wrote: "Jeff" wrote in message news:9rY8i.4905$554.1812@trnddc07... Ericka Kammerer wrote: Beliavsky wrote: Can anyone recommend a set of reading lists arranged by difficulty (grade level). Googling lead me to http://www.hplibrary.org/kids/bookli...evellists.html which seems ok. Googling in "graded reading list" or "graded reading database" will get you more lists than you know what to do with. You can also search on "leveled books list" or "leveled books database." There are much finer distinctions out there than grade levels. I remember looking at one list. The books "Harry Potter and the Sorcere's Stone" and "Harry Potter and the Philsopher's Stone" were rated to be at different grade levels. Except for the name of the book and the stone within the book, they are basically the same book. So you have to take the grade levels with a grain of salt, too. But assuming that these were American grade levels, "Harry Potter and the Philsopher's Stone" might well be considered to be a slightly higher grade level book because it has more unfamiliar words. That would be like 1 in 10,000 words changed, all from philosopher's to socerer's or the other way around. So I don't think so. I don't remember which book had the higher level. It was off by about 1/2 a grade or so, too much for one word change to explain it, but not all that much. But I thought in a thread on here a while back, people were discussing the other changes -- sweater for jumper and so on. Someone even posted a list of all the changes, right? So it wouldn't be just one word, it would several places in the book where an American child was encountering words they don't come across normally. Bizby |
#19
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reading lists
bizby40 wrote:
"Jeff" wrote in message news:_iZ8i.4909$554.1090@trnddc07... bizby40 wrote: "Jeff" wrote in message news:9rY8i.4905$554.1812@trnddc07... Ericka Kammerer wrote: Beliavsky wrote: Can anyone recommend a set of reading lists arranged by difficulty (grade level). Googling lead me to http://www.hplibrary.org/kids/bookli...evellists.html which seems ok. Googling in "graded reading list" or "graded reading database" will get you more lists than you know what to do with. You can also search on "leveled books list" or "leveled books database." There are much finer distinctions out there than grade levels. I remember looking at one list. The books "Harry Potter and the Sorcere's Stone" and "Harry Potter and the Philsopher's Stone" were rated to be at different grade levels. Except for the name of the book and the stone within the book, they are basically the same book. So you have to take the grade levels with a grain of salt, too. But assuming that these were American grade levels, "Harry Potter and the Philsopher's Stone" might well be considered to be a slightly higher grade level book because it has more unfamiliar words. That would be like 1 in 10,000 words changed, all from philosopher's to socerer's or the other way around. So I don't think so. I don't remember which book had the higher level. It was off by about 1/2 a grade or so, too much for one word change to explain it, but not all that much. But I thought in a thread on here a while back, people were discussing the other changes -- sweater for jumper and so on. Someone even posted a list of all the changes, right? So it wouldn't be just one word, it would several places in the book where an American child was encountering words they don't come across normally. I found the list (the URL is elsewhere in the thread). There were about 75 words that were changed. According to the publisher, there were about 75,000 words in the first Harry Potter. So that is one word or phrase in one thousand (plus they also took out the sort of Dean Thomas in the English edition). American kids learning 75 new words or phrases? Excellent. Plus, it also gives a British air to the book. The author said she regretted allowing the name change. JKR owns the copyright, so I guess she could tell Scholastic that they have to change the title back to the original (there's probably contracts involved - it would also be complicated with the movies, too). That would increase the value of my copy and all the copies with the old title. Hey, it might even be worth $10. Bizby |
#20
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reading lists
On Jun 4, 9:57 am, Beliavsky wrote:
Can anyone recommend a set of reading lists arranged by difficulty (grade level). Googling lead me tohttp://www.hplibrary.org/kids/booklists/gradelevel/gradelevellists.html which seems ok. Please check out http://www.piffany.com . We do not officially go online for another few days, but you are welcome to explore the site now. A new feature that will be available soon (next week or two) is a book search by difficulty level. I am actually working on the book search at this very moment, it is a funny coincidence that I happened across your post. In the meantime, join the Piffany community on Google groups (instructions are on our web site) and watch for the new feature to be announced. |
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