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  #11  
Old June 4th 07, 08:23 PM posted to misc.kids
Ericka Kammerer
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Posts: 2,293
Default reading lists

Jeff wrote:
bizby40 wrote:
"Jeff" wrote in message


The books "Harry Potter and the
Sorcere's Stone" and "Harry Potter and the Philsopher's Stone" were
rated to be at different grade levels. Except for the name of the
book and the stone within the book, they are basically the same book.


But assuming that these were American grade levels, "Harry Potter and
the Philsopher's Stone" might well be considered to be a slightly
higher grade level book because it has more unfamiliar words.



That would be like 1 in 10,000 words changed, all from philosopher's to
socerer's or the other way around. So I don't think so.


Wouldn't that depend on how the rating algorithm works?
If it compiles a list of words and rates based on the highest
level word, well, it would only take one word. I rather suspect
the algorithm is significantly more complicated than that, but
I believe there are far more word changes changing from British
English to American English than just 1 in 10,000.

Best wishes,
Ericka
  #12  
Old June 4th 07, 08:52 PM posted to misc.kids
Jeff
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Posts: 1,321
Default reading lists

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Jeff wrote:
bizby40 wrote:
"Jeff" wrote in message


The books "Harry Potter and the Sorcere's Stone" and "Harry Potter
and the Philsopher's Stone" were rated to be at different grade
levels. Except for the name of the book and the stone within the
book, they are basically the same book.

But assuming that these were American grade levels, "Harry Potter and
the Philsopher's Stone" might well be considered to be a slightly
higher grade level book because it has more unfamiliar words.



That would be like 1 in 10,000 words changed, all from philosopher's
to socerer's or the other way around. So I don't think so.


Wouldn't that depend on how the rating algorithm works?
If it compiles a list of words and rates based on the highest
level word, well, it would only take one word. I rather suspect
the algorithm is significantly more complicated than that, but
I believe there are far more word changes changing from British
English to American English than just 1 in 10,000.


There are. But, AFIK, only title changed. Obviously, they had to change
the name of the stone in the book, too, or American readers would have
been confused. The remaining books' text were identical in America and
Britain.

In fact, the only think I found odd about the whole thing (and with the
Lord of the Rings, too), is that the actors who played the characters
have such weird British accents. The funny thing is that when I read the
books, they had American accents. Go figure. ;-)

Jeff

Best wishes,
Ericka

  #13  
Old June 4th 07, 09:20 PM posted to misc.kids
Ericka Kammerer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,293
Default reading lists

Jeff wrote:
Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Jeff wrote:
bizby40 wrote:
"Jeff" wrote in message


The books "Harry Potter and the Sorcere's Stone" and "Harry Potter
and the Philsopher's Stone" were rated to be at different grade
levels. Except for the name of the book and the stone within the
book, they are basically the same book.

But assuming that these were American grade levels, "Harry Potter
and the Philsopher's Stone" might well be considered to be a
slightly higher grade level book because it has more unfamiliar words.



That would be like 1 in 10,000 words changed, all from philosopher's
to socerer's or the other way around. So I don't think so.


Wouldn't that depend on how the rating algorithm works?
If it compiles a list of words and rates based on the highest
level word, well, it would only take one word. I rather suspect
the algorithm is significantly more complicated than that, but
I believe there are far more word changes changing from British
English to American English than just 1 in 10,000.


There are. But, AFIK, only title changed. Obviously, they had to change
the name of the stone in the book, too, or American readers would have
been confused. The remaining books' text were identical in America and
Britain.


Actually, there was a thread about this a while back
and someone posted a website listing the changes. There were
substantially more than just changing "philosopher's stone" to
"sorceror's stone."

Best wishes,
Ericka
  #14  
Old June 4th 07, 10:01 PM posted to misc.kids
Jeff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,321
Default reading lists

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Jeff wrote:
Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Jeff wrote:
bizby40 wrote:
"Jeff" wrote in message

The books "Harry Potter and the Sorcere's Stone" and "Harry Potter
and the Philsopher's Stone" were rated to be at different grade
levels. Except for the name of the book and the stone within the
book, they are basically the same book.

But assuming that these were American grade levels, "Harry Potter
and the Philsopher's Stone" might well be considered to be a
slightly higher grade level book because it has more unfamiliar words.


That would be like 1 in 10,000 words changed, all from
philosopher's to socerer's or the other way around. So I don't think
so.

Wouldn't that depend on how the rating algorithm works?
If it compiles a list of words and rates based on the highest
level word, well, it would only take one word. I rather suspect
the algorithm is significantly more complicated than that, but
I believe there are far more word changes changing from British
English to American English than just 1 in 10,000.


There are. But, AFIK, only title changed. Obviously, they had to
change the name of the stone in the book, too, or American readers
would have been confused. The remaining books' text were identical in
America and Britain.


Actually, there was a thread about this a while back
and someone posted a website listing the changes. There were
substantially more than just changing "philosopher's stone" to
"sorceror's stone."

Best wishes,
Ericka


You're right. They changed silly things like lookout to problem, and mad
and crazy - like kids wouldn't figure these out. (I noticed they left in
hose pipe, something I never heard of but quickly figured out.)

They didn't change as much in the later editions.

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/about/book...rences-ps.html

That works out to around 75 changes around 75,000 words or a change
every 1000 words, more or less.

Jeff

  #15  
Old June 4th 07, 10:05 PM posted to misc.kids
Penny Gaines
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 328
Default reading lists

Jeff wrote:
Ericka Kammerer wrote:

Jeff wrote:

bizby40 wrote:

"Jeff" wrote in message



The books "Harry Potter and the Sorcere's Stone" and "Harry Potter
and the Philsopher's Stone" were rated to be at different grade
levels. Except for the name of the book and the stone within the
book, they are basically the same book.


But assuming that these were American grade levels, "Harry Potter
and the Philsopher's Stone" might well be considered to be a
slightly higher grade level book because it has more unfamiliar words.

[snip]

It's possible (depending on which was supposed to be harder), that
"Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone" had a reading level in terms
of British school years. Basically, Year 1 in Britain is 5-6yo kids,
whereas US Grade 1 is 6-7yo (isn't it?). So if both of them were set up
for the average 8-9yo to read, then the Philosopher's Stone might be
labelled Year 4, but the Sorcerer's Stone Grade 3. It's only a small
step for someone to put them onto the same list as different ages.

[snip]
In fact, the only think I found odd about the whole thing (and with the
Lord of the Rings, too), is that the actors who played the characters
have such weird British accents. The funny thing is that when I read the
books, they had American accents. Go figure. ;-)


They have perfectly normal British accents :-)

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three
  #16  
Old June 4th 07, 10:11 PM posted to misc.kids
Ericka Kammerer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,293
Default reading lists

Jeff wrote:
Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Jeff wrote:
Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Jeff wrote:
bizby40 wrote:
"Jeff" wrote in message

The books "Harry Potter and the Sorcere's Stone" and "Harry
Potter and the Philsopher's Stone" were rated to be at different
grade levels. Except for the name of the book and the stone
within the book, they are basically the same book.

But assuming that these were American grade levels, "Harry Potter
and the Philsopher's Stone" might well be considered to be a
slightly higher grade level book because it has more unfamiliar
words.


That would be like 1 in 10,000 words changed, all from
philosopher's to socerer's or the other way around. So I don't
think so.

Wouldn't that depend on how the rating algorithm works?
If it compiles a list of words and rates based on the highest
level word, well, it would only take one word. I rather suspect
the algorithm is significantly more complicated than that, but
I believe there are far more word changes changing from British
English to American English than just 1 in 10,000.

There are. But, AFIK, only title changed. Obviously, they had to
change the name of the stone in the book, too, or American readers
would have been confused. The remaining books' text were identical in
America and Britain.


Actually, there was a thread about this a while back
and someone posted a website listing the changes. There were
substantially more than just changing "philosopher's stone" to
"sorceror's stone."


You're right. They changed silly things like lookout to problem, and mad
and crazy - like kids wouldn't figure these out. (I noticed they left in
hose pipe, something I never heard of but quickly figured out.)

They didn't change as much in the later editions.

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/about/book...rences-ps.html

That works out to around 75 changes around 75,000 words or a change
every 1000 words, more or less.


But again, it's a matter of how the grading algorithm
works. I don't know what the threshholds are, but I'll bet that
there's something in there that compares the words in the book
to a list of words assigned to particular levels. Exceed the
threshhold, and poof! You go up a level.

Best wishes,
Ericka
  #17  
Old June 5th 07, 01:02 AM posted to misc.kids
Jeff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,321
Default reading lists

Penny Gaines wrote:
Jeff wrote:
Ericka Kammerer wrote:

Jeff wrote:

bizby40 wrote:

"Jeff" wrote in message


The books "Harry Potter and the Sorcere's Stone" and "Harry Potter
and the Philsopher's Stone" were rated to be at different grade
levels. Except for the name of the book and the stone within the
book, they are basically the same book.


But assuming that these were American grade levels, "Harry Potter
and the Philsopher's Stone" might well be considered to be a
slightly higher grade level book because it has more unfamiliar words.

[snip]

It's possible (depending on which was supposed to be harder), that
"Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone" had a reading level in terms
of British school years. Basically, Year 1 in Britain is 5-6yo kids,
whereas US Grade 1 is 6-7yo (isn't it?). So if both of them were set up
for the average 8-9yo to read, then the Philosopher's Stone might be
labelled Year 4, but the Sorcerer's Stone Grade 3. It's only a small
step for someone to put them onto the same list as different ages.


That's possible, but IIRC, they were specific for US grades or reading
levels.

I think it shows the reading levels are approximate, and changes in the
program or, apparently, small, changes in the text can affect the
reading level.

[snip]
In fact, the only think I found odd about the whole thing (and with
the Lord of the Rings, too), is that the actors who played the
characters have such weird British accents. The funny thing is that
when I read the books, they had American accents. Go figure. ;-)


They have perfectly normal British accents :-)


Yeah, but not when I read the book (I mean when in my head)!
  #18  
Old June 5th 07, 02:19 AM posted to misc.kids
bizby40
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 251
Default reading lists


"Jeff" wrote in message
news:_iZ8i.4909$554.1090@trnddc07...
bizby40 wrote:
"Jeff" wrote in message
news:9rY8i.4905$554.1812@trnddc07...
Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Beliavsky wrote:
Can anyone recommend a set of reading lists arranged by
difficulty
(grade level). Googling lead me to
http://www.hplibrary.org/kids/bookli...evellists.html
which seems ok.
Googling in "graded reading list" or "graded reading
database"
will get you more lists than you know what to do with. You can
also
search on "leveled books list" or "leveled books database."
There
are much finer distinctions out there than grade levels.
I remember looking at one list. The books "Harry Potter and the
Sorcere's Stone" and "Harry Potter and the Philsopher's Stone"
were rated to be at different grade levels. Except for the name of
the book and the stone within the book, they are basically the
same book.

So you have to take the grade levels with a grain of salt, too.


But assuming that these were American grade levels, "Harry Potter
and the Philsopher's Stone" might well be considered to be a
slightly higher grade level book because it has more unfamiliar
words.


That would be like 1 in 10,000 words changed, all from
philosopher's to socerer's or the other way around. So I don't think
so. I don't remember which book had the higher level. It was off by
about 1/2 a grade or so, too much for one word change to explain it,
but not all that much.


But I thought in a thread on here a while back, people were discussing
the other changes -- sweater for jumper and so on. Someone even
posted a list of all the changes, right? So it wouldn't be just one
word, it would several places in the book where an American child was
encountering words they don't come across normally.

Bizby


  #19  
Old June 5th 07, 02:41 AM posted to misc.kids
Jeff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,321
Default reading lists

bizby40 wrote:
"Jeff" wrote in message
news:_iZ8i.4909$554.1090@trnddc07...
bizby40 wrote:
"Jeff" wrote in message
news:9rY8i.4905$554.1812@trnddc07...
Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Beliavsky wrote:
Can anyone recommend a set of reading lists arranged by
difficulty
(grade level). Googling lead me to
http://www.hplibrary.org/kids/bookli...evellists.html
which seems ok.
Googling in "graded reading list" or "graded reading
database"
will get you more lists than you know what to do with. You can
also
search on "leveled books list" or "leveled books database."
There
are much finer distinctions out there than grade levels.
I remember looking at one list. The books "Harry Potter and the
Sorcere's Stone" and "Harry Potter and the Philsopher's Stone"
were rated to be at different grade levels. Except for the name of
the book and the stone within the book, they are basically the
same book.

So you have to take the grade levels with a grain of salt, too.
But assuming that these were American grade levels, "Harry Potter
and the Philsopher's Stone" might well be considered to be a
slightly higher grade level book because it has more unfamiliar
words.

That would be like 1 in 10,000 words changed, all from
philosopher's to socerer's or the other way around. So I don't think
so. I don't remember which book had the higher level. It was off by
about 1/2 a grade or so, too much for one word change to explain it,
but not all that much.


But I thought in a thread on here a while back, people were discussing
the other changes -- sweater for jumper and so on. Someone even
posted a list of all the changes, right? So it wouldn't be just one
word, it would several places in the book where an American child was
encountering words they don't come across normally.


I found the list (the URL is elsewhere in the thread). There were about
75 words that were changed. According to the publisher, there were about
75,000 words in the first Harry Potter. So that is one word or phrase in
one thousand (plus they also took out the sort of Dean Thomas in the
English edition).

American kids learning 75 new words or phrases? Excellent. Plus, it also
gives a British air to the book.

The author said she regretted allowing the name change. JKR owns the
copyright, so I guess she could tell Scholastic that they have to change
the title back to the original (there's probably contracts involved - it
would also be complicated with the movies, too). That would increase the
value of my copy and all the copies with the old title. Hey, it might
even be worth $10.



Bizby


  #20  
Old June 5th 07, 04:25 PM posted to misc.kids,misc.education
Piffany
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default reading lists

On Jun 4, 9:57 am, Beliavsky wrote:
Can anyone recommend a set of reading lists arranged by difficulty
(grade level). Googling lead me tohttp://www.hplibrary.org/kids/booklists/gradelevel/gradelevellists.html
which seems ok.


Please check out http://www.piffany.com . We do not officially go
online for another few days, but you are welcome to explore the site
now. A new feature that will be available soon (next week or two) is a
book search by difficulty level. I am actually working on the book
search at this very moment, it is a funny coincidence that I happened
across your post. In the meantime, join the Piffany community on
Google groups (instructions are on our web site) and watch for the new
feature to be announced.

 




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