Water has memory, validating homeopathy

"Steelclaws" wrote in message
4.39...
"carole" wrote in
ond.com:

Those are the same videos I suggested to her a month ago, aren't
they?

Yes, they are.

I've seldom seen a rationalization of that magnitude.

I know it has to be a bot....

I dunno, her responses seem to be more on topic than those of
Cleverbot.

I don't know who Cleverbot is.

It's not a who, it's a what. As the name says, it is program that is an
experiment in AI. If you go to its website and type something, it
replies.

--
There are two great secrets of the quack's success. One is the
fact that many human ills, including some of the severest, will
run their course and vanish without treatment of any sort.

But still they prescribe the drugs.

Doctors kinda know which illnesses require drugs, and prescribe those.

But doctors don't really know which illnesses will respond to nutritional remedies and which won't.


The
other half are due to the fact that many of life's ills are
wholly or in part psychosomatic. -Martin Gardner

Allopaths don't know the cause or the cure but arrogance often works,
hey?

That's more like alties - who often rely on spurious methods of
diagnosis.

Yes and no.
I could go into a lot of discussion and there are some areas I'm not sure about.
Alties don't know the diseases and how to diagnose like a regular doc, some diseases are rare and incurable,
but OTOH some considered incurable aren't.
Many diseases are the result of toxemia which has built up over a person's lifetime of wrong eating.
Most alties probably don't know enough about toxemia and acidity and nutritional cures.
There are faults on both sides.

--
Carole
www.conspiracee.com
"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way." -President
Franklin D. Roosevelt





--
There are, in fact, two things, science and opinion; the former
begets knowledge, the latter ignorance. - Hippocrates

"Steelclaws" wrote in message
4.39...
"carole" wrote in
nd.com:

Have you decided yet if Randi used brain waves or magnets? Not that
either would make any difference, of course, to the water.

Maybe magnets because during the time he was present he was playing
around and doing certain tricks - on one of these videos. Wouldn't
have been hard for him to wave his hands over all the vials. Pt 4 -
Details of experiment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzO3A04cOis

Pt 5 - James Randi involvement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhSzOShJb2U

I completely fail to see how waving magnets - surreptiously or not -
would do anything about the distilled water. If you think otherwise,
please present valid evidence.

I don't know how he could have jeopardised the experiment, but he does tricks and nobody knows how he does
them.

Randi could have known about electromagnetic effect on homeopathic solutions.

http://www.naturalworldhealing.com/n...namization.htm

"...Vibration and Its Crucial Role in Homeopathy:

A key piece to the puzzle of homeopathy is the role of vibration in making the medicines. Without it there is
no homeopathy. This was stated by Samuel Hahnemann, M.D., the original describer of the homeopathic
phenomenon. 1. When homeopathic preparations were only diluted (with a gentle swirling action for mixing with
the pure water added at each step) Hahnemann discovered there was no healing response when it was given to a
patient. 2. When homeopathic preparations were strongly vibrated (in a method described as "shaking" or
"stirring" in modern literature but done in a specific way that Hahnemann called "succussion", "dynamization",
or "potentization") at higher steps of dilution he found an increased healing response.



Disruptive vibrations and an unexpected danger:

Further data about the homeopathic phenomenon is fascinating:

1. When the preparations are exposed to a strong electromagnet they seem to lose their ability to cause a
healing response."





--
By providing homeopathy on the NHS and allowing MHRA licensing
of products which subsequently appear on pharmacy shelves, the
Government runs the risk of endorsing homeopathy as an
efficacious system of medicine. To maintain patient trust,
choice and safety, the Government should not endorse the use of
placebo treatments, including homeopathy. Homeopathy should not
be funded on the NHS and the MHRA should stop licensing
homeopathic products. - House of Commons report into the
Evidence Check on Homeopathy

Politicians are often quite ignorant about many things and it wouldn't
be beyond the realms of imagination for them to be in the pocket of
the pharmaceutical cartel.

There were several doctors on that committee, which means they were not
just laymen. I'm disregarding any paranoid conspiracy fantasies, btw.

You don't have to disregard paranoid conspiracy theories -- I'm quite sure they exist.
There are ways that people can interfere in experiments - either setting them up wrong, putting conditions on
them, qualifying terms, modifying the scope, or others.
You wouldn't always know who is pushing the buttons to get a decision made a certain way.


Here's the committee member list:
http://www.publications.parliament.u.../cmsctech/45/4
501.htm


That's ok, I don't know any of these people.

--
There are, in fact, two things, science and opinion; the former
begets knowledge, the latter ignorance. - Hippocrates

And then there are different types of opinion -- emotional gut reaction, opinion based on error, and informed
opinion.
So there are a lot of different types of opinion.
And we have good science and bad science.
Sometimes informed opinion can be better than bad science.

--
Carole
www.conspiracee.com
"Of course, no one in this modern day and age really believes in the conspiracy theory of history - except
those who have taken the time to study the subject." -Gary Allen

"Steelclaws" wrote in message
4.39...
"carole" wrote in
ond.com:

Wrong preparation?

Every homeopathic preparation to prevent malaria appears to be
"wrong" then. People who rely on those get dangerously ill of
malaria. http://whatstheharm.net/newsarchive/...Podgorsek.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ht/5178122.stm


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...article6406213.
ec e

No, and people dying of cancer doesn't stop the oncologists of
fleecing people of their money either.

False analogy.

"Looking at all cancers combined the five-year relative survival rate
has now reached 50%. The survival rate in women (56%) is higher than
that in men (43%) and this is also the case for ten-year rates (39%
vs.52%)."
http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/can...l/latestrates/

Homeopathic malaria prevention is still batting zero.

yes, but allopathic is batting zero on chronic diseases like ms,
diabetes, alzheimers and asthma.

Real medicine can at least offer palliative medication for those
conditions. What does "alternative medicine" have? Nothing but placebos.

So "real medicine" can't cure but can offer palliative care -- whacko!


And with cancer, we know the stats
are rigged - its 5 years survival from the time a person is diagnosed,
so earlier diagnosis makes the figures look better.

Try actually reading what is being posted.

"and this is also the case for ten-year rates (39% vs.52%)"

Besides, "we" know nothing of the kind - what you imagine is your
business.

If alternative medicine wasn't suppressed there would probably be 100%
cancer survival

Present proper evidence for that claim - not that you ever can. There
are enough poor unfortunates who have resorted to cancer frauds like the
late and not one bit lamented Hulda Clark. E-mail some of the crooks who
huckster their "therapy" and ask what the survival rate of their
patients are.

but the pharm cartel has to make people afraid so they
will be more prepared to cough up the cash for treatments.

********.

It's usually the cancer crooks like Clark who try to scare their marks
off conventional treatment.

Even the more responsible homeopaths - see that last link for one -
advise against it, but that does not stop homeoquacks fleecing their
dupes of their money and health.

Yes, but the rockefeller business with pharmaceuticals had $100m to
spend on promoting his drugs to medical colleges in 1904 which really
got his leg in the door.

Not interested in that fantasy novel - and won't accept any of its
unbacked claims - not until some evidence crops up to back them up.

Then do some research over its claims - to see if they're wrong or right.


Try reading some research articles on the topic.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20402610
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20233176
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20223686
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19887810
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17943868
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16125589

Anything put out by the NIH is propaganda since the government
bodies are infiltrated with pharmaceutical dupes.

And your _valid_ evidence for that claim would be?

Burton Goldberg couldn't put it any better when he says -

http://www.burtongoldberg.com/page43.html

I'm seriously not interested in someone who is trying to huckster his
worthless books says to denigrate the competition.

And then there is the little matter of how Australia's PBAC (pharm
benefits advisory committee) got fired and replaced with new more
pharmaceutical friendly people to increase spending on pharm drugs.
And the way that Pan was put out of business was high handed and
didn't add up.

Pan got caught for dangerously bad quality control - and was slapped for
that.

Not dangerous, as the compounds were low level over the counter herbal remedies.
So I reject the claim that there was any danger to lives.

And the pbac was replaced by another group of pharmaceutical friendly people -- no comment?
And this is what goes on regularly, that government bodies are staffed by these pharmaceutical types who are
interchangeable between government positions and pharmaceutical company jobs.


Pharmaceuticals have a proven physiological effect, woo crap products
do not - apart from when they poison the poor saps who take those.
Btw, do you remember when Gary Null managed to get poisoned by the
stuff he peddles? Now that was a fitting reward for him.
http://tinyurl.com/3yzn99y

Yes, pharmaceutical drugs are just so efficient - that's why they
contribute to making allopathic the leading cause of death in the US.

Don't you ever get tired of lying? No matter how many times you repeat
that lie, it won't make it true.

Even if only a leading cause of death, its too much.


Yes, Gary Null took too much vit D. Nothing like the amount of adverse
side effects with big pharma's crap.

I don't recall having ANY side effects from any medication I've ever
had.

I don't take any meds so no experience in that area.


--
The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that
they know so much that ain't so. -Josh Billings

You should take note of the above quote yourself.

I have. You haven't - and that is glaringly obvious.

The only thing you have convinced me is that science is a committee
where concensus is the guiding code.

********. Science works on evidence alone.

People get ex-communicated if
they don't obey the rules - like dr simoncini - on some cooked up
pretext or other.

Simoncini's fantasies about cancer being caused by fungi are dismissed
for the lack of evidence, and that's how it should be.

The orthopaths have seven stages of disease, ending in fungation (like a fungus or of a fungus - not sure
about that one).

Stage Seven: Fungation
( fungate - to assume a fungal form or grow rapidly like a fungus - www.mirriam-webster.com )


Only those who fit in and don't rock the boat get to stay.

Nonsense. Controversial theories are accepted, if the evidence backs
them. That's what happened with plate tectonics and H. pylori causing
stomach ulcers.

--
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and
I'm not sure about the universe. -Albert Einstein

Are you thinking about yourself when you quote Einstein, or maybe bob?

No, I'm thinking of the woo believers.

--
Anecdotes are useless precisely because they may point to
idiosyncratic responses. -Author Unknown

Not exactly true, as many anecdotes may point to a whole heap of idiosyncratic responses which may represent
the entire range of responses, and may form a pattern.
So another useless quote.

--
Carole
www.conspiracee.com
"When you have ruled out the impossible, then whatever remains, no matter how improbable, is the
ruth." -writer Arthur Conan-Doyle

On 11/2/10 10:10 PM, carole wrote:
wrote in message ...
On 11/2/10 7:26 PM, carole wrote:
wrote in message news http://vimeo.com/14646626


Homeopathy is what is known as a vibrational remedy. When the solution is shaken it separates the spirit
from the substance and it
is the spirit that becomes the active ingredient.
Spirit is behind all matter. Every substance, microbe, animal, plant and person has its own identity and
vibrates at its own
frequency. Hence the Rife cures where he identified the frequencies of different disease microbes and was
able to knock them out.


Are you serious? A solution has a spirit? Are you taking this as if it is for real? This is total crap.

If you think this is real, then you probably had too many spirits: The ones that come out bottles and are
available in glasses at bars. Either that or you are completely clueless.

Jeff



Some Theoretical Groundwork to Understand Homeopathy and "Energy Medicine"
http://www.naturalworldhealing.com/h...ergytheory.htm

Disruptive vibrations and an unexpected danger:
Further data about the homeopathic phenomenon is fascinating:
1. When the preparations are exposed to a strong electromagnet they seem to lose their ability to cause a
healing response.

They never had this ability.

2. When they are exposed to direct sunlight they lose the ability to evoke a healing response

Ditto.

3. When some individuals sleep under electric blankets they have lost the benefits they had experienced from
taking a homeopathic medicine.

What benefits?

4. When exposed to strong volatile oils the preparations lose their ability to evoke a healing response.

Smells make homeopathic rememedies not work?

5. A report by a homeopath in New York City is sobering: He studied the problems in behavior associated with
city living and considered the water supply as a source of destabilizing influence. He noted that as the water
flowed down from reservoirs, falling down pipes and vibrating around bends in the pipes there might be a
potentizing phenomenon on the chemicals in the water. One chemical added to the water was fluoride. Indeed,
the symptoms caused by fluorinum include many of the social problems seen in the city (unsociable behavior,
sexual over-excitement, mental exhaustion and fatigue, etc.). It was as if the entire city had been treated
with long-term exposure to the vibrational energy of fluoride. He found that prescribing homeopathic fluoric
acid helped a number of his patients. It acted almost like an antidote, or mirror image of the negative
influence from the vibrated fluoride water.

A homeopath considered that because water goes around bends, that causes
social problems? Like water goes around more bends in the Bronx and
Brooklyn than the Upper East and West sides? How come when other people
move into the neighborhoods, they don't have the same problems?

This is the best evidence that homeopathy works?

And you expect people to buy distilled water and pay extra for it?

Sadly, there are some people who are delusional enough to buy it.

Jeff

* * *

BBC Horizon homeopathy experiment
Pt 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZhmG97lYog
Pt 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jE3hT5lLwA Madeleine Ennis - vet uses homeopathy on animals with good
results.
Pt 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh0phYI3ROs Madeleine Ennis -
Pt 4 - Details of experiment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzO3A04cOis
Pt 5 - James Randi involvement http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhSzOShJb2U

Maybe James Randi knows about the electromagnetic ability (No.1 above) to neutralise homeopathy, and passed
some sort of magnet over the samples in the homeopathy experiment.
After all, he is a magician and would know all the tricks of the trade --plus do you really think he would
want to part with 1 million dollars?

Madeleine Ennis was an impartial scientific experimenter and she found homeopathy worked - Part 2 or 3.

On 11/3/10 2:35 AM, carole wrote:
wrote in message
4.39...


Madeleine Ennis was an impartial scientific experimenter and she found
homeopathy worked - Part 2 or 3.

*facepalm*

I've seldom seen a rationalization of that magnitude.

From you allopaths maybe with your bias against homeopathy and chiropractic.

No, from our bias for treatments and theories that have been proven to
work and our bias against treatments and conjectures that have no basis
in fact, no evidence to support them and no scientific basis that can
explain how they work.

Jeff

On 11/10/10 6:09 AM, carole wrote:
wrote in message
4.39...
wrote in
ond.com:

Wrong preparation?

Every homeopathic preparation to prevent malaria appears to be
"wrong" then. People who rely on those get dangerously ill of
malaria. http://whatstheharm.net/newsarchive/...Podgorsek.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ht/5178122.stm


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...article6406213.
ec e

No, and people dying of cancer doesn't stop the oncologists of
fleecing people of their money either.

False analogy.

"Looking at all cancers combined the five-year relative survival rate
has now reached 50%. The survival rate in women (56%) is higher than
that in men (43%) and this is also the case for ten-year rates (39%
vs.52%)."
http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/can...l/latestrates/

Homeopathic malaria prevention is still batting zero.

yes, but allopathic is batting zero on chronic diseases like ms,
diabetes, alzheimers and asthma.

Real medicine can at least offer palliative medication for those
conditions. What does "alternative medicine" have? Nothing but placebos.

So "real medicine" can't cure but can offer palliative care -- whacko!

Allopathic medicine is able to extend the lives and improve the lives of
people with these diseases. For asthma, kids with asthma are able to go
out and play, run around, join sports teams and live a normal life.
Alternative treatments don't do anything.

Likewise, allopathic medicine is able to greatly improve the lives of
people with MS and diabetes.

And with cancer, we know the stats
are rigged - its 5 years survival from the time a person is diagnosed,
so earlier diagnosis makes the figures look better.

Try actually reading what is being posted.

"and this is also the case for ten-year rates (39% vs.52%)"

Besides, "we" know nothing of the kind - what you imagine is your
business.

If alternative medicine wasn't suppressed there would probably be 100%
cancer survival

Present proper evidence for that claim - not that you ever can. There
are enough poor unfortunates who have resorted to cancer frauds like the
late and not one bit lamented Hulda Clark. E-mail some of the crooks who
huckster their "therapy" and ask what the survival rate of their
patients are.

but the pharm cartel has to make people afraid so they
will be more prepared to cough up the cash for treatments.

********.

It's usually the cancer crooks like Clark who try to scare their marks
off conventional treatment.

Even the more responsible homeopaths - see that last link for one -
advise against it, but that does not stop homeoquacks fleecing their
dupes of their money and health.

Yes, but the rockefeller business with pharmaceuticals had $100m to
spend on promoting his drugs to medical colleges in 1904 which really
got his leg in the door.

Not interested in that fantasy novel - and won't accept any of its
unbacked claims - not until some evidence crops up to back them up.

Then do some research over its claims - to see if they're wrong or right.


Try reading some research articles on the topic.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20402610
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20233176
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20223686
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19887810
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17943868
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16125589

Anything put out by the NIH is propaganda since the government
bodies are infiltrated with pharmaceutical dupes.

And your _valid_ evidence for that claim would be?

Burton Goldberg couldn't put it any better when he says -

http://www.burtongoldberg.com/page43.html

I'm seriously not interested in someone who is trying to huckster his
worthless books says to denigrate the competition.

And then there is the little matter of how Australia's PBAC (pharm
benefits advisory committee) got fired and replaced with new more
pharmaceutical friendly people to increase spending on pharm drugs.
And the way that Pan was put out of business was high handed and
didn't add up.

Pan got caught for dangerously bad quality control - and was slapped for
that.

Not dangerous, as the compounds were low level over the counter herbal remedies.
So I reject the claim that there was any danger to lives.

And the pbac was replaced by another group of pharmaceutical friendly people -- no comment?
And this is what goes on regularly, that government bodies are staffed by these pharmaceutical types who are
interchangeable between government positions and pharmaceutical company jobs.


Pharmaceuticals have a proven physiological effect, woo crap products
do not - apart from when they poison the poor saps who take those.
Btw, do you remember when Gary Null managed to get poisoned by the
stuff he peddles? Now that was a fitting reward for him.
http://tinyurl.com/3yzn99y

Yes, pharmaceutical drugs are just so efficient - that's why they
contribute to making allopathic the leading cause of death in the US.

Don't you ever get tired of lying? No matter how many times you repeat
that lie, it won't make it true.

Even if only a leading cause of death, its too much.

It is not a leading cause of death. Period.

Allopathic medicine saves lives. Alternative medicine wastes money.

Yes, Gary Null took too much vit D. Nothing like the amount of adverse
side effects with big pharma's crap.

I don't recall having ANY side effects from any medication I've ever
had.

I don't take any meds so no experience in that area.

I do. Never had a major side effect.

The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that
they know so much that ain't so. -Josh Billings

You should take note of the above quote yourself.

I have. You haven't - and that is glaringly obvious.

The only thing you have convinced me is that science is a committee
where concensus is the guiding code.

********. Science works on evidence alone.

People get ex-communicated if
they don't obey the rules - like dr simoncini - on some cooked up
pretext or other.

Simoncini's fantasies about cancer being caused by fungi are dismissed
for the lack of evidence, and that's how it should be.

The orthopaths have seven stages of disease, ending in fungation (like a fungus or of a fungus - not sure
about that one).

Stage Seven: Fungation
( fungate - to assume a fungal form or grow rapidly like a fungus - www.mirriam-webster.com )

So cancer ends in a fungus infection? Gee, that is stupid.

Only those who fit in and don't rock the boat get to stay.

Nonsense. Controversial theories are accepted, if the evidence backs
them. That's what happened with plate tectonics and H. pylori causing
stomach ulcers.

--
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and
I'm not sure about the universe. -Albert Einstein

Are you thinking about yourself when you quote Einstein, or maybe bob?

No, I'm thinking of the woo believers.

--
Anecdotes are useless precisely because they may point to
idiosyncratic responses. -Author Unknown

Not exactly true, as many anecdotes may point to a whole heap of idiosyncratic responses which may represent
the entire range of responses, and may form a pattern.
So another useless quote.

Keywords: May point. A good study is valuable. Individual anecdotes, not so.

Jeff

"carole" wrote in
ond.com:


Broadly speaking, I've compared we're told by "experts" and
"reliable sources" and what the alteranative views are on many
topics.

Just how would you manage to do that? By your own admission you can't
use PubMed, and even if you could, you cannot understand the
articles.

As I said before, from my own experience I have discovered how to
eliminate parasites, fungi, infections, various aches and pains,
stomach troubles, constipation, headaches all with alternative
remedies.

This - even if true, and I have serious doubts about that - does NOT
answer my question.

How would you know what expert sources say when you cannot understand
research articles?

--
There are three kinds of medicine: medicine that has been
scientifically validated to work, medicine that has not, and
medicine that has been scientifically shown not to work. -Orac

And medicine that has had rigged studies and medicine that is
suppressed and the inventors labeled as quacks. Absolutely all
sorts.

Present _valid_ evidence for your claims. Also present _valid_
evidence that quackery works in anything else than relieving their
dupes from their cash.

Relieving dupes of their cash is what pharmaceutical medicine is
expert at.

I said _valid_ evidence. Your opinion is not evidence.

My opinion is more valid to me than the opinions of "experts" and
"reliable sources". Consensus medicine - where everybody agrees on
something that nobody agrees on.

Your opinion may be valid to you, but not to anyone else without _valid_
evidence. So present valid evidence that backs your opinion.

--
The concepts of orthomolecular medicine are not biologically
plausible and not supported by the results of rigorous clinical
trials. These problems are compounded by the fact that
orthomolecular medicine can cause harm and is often very
expensive. -Simon Singh and Edzard Ernst

Replace "orthomolecular" with "allopathic" and you're getting closer
to the truth.

http://www.orthomolecular.org/
Orthomolecular medicine describes the practice of preventing and
treating disease by providing the body with optimal amounts of
substances which are natural to the body.

So where is the evidence that it works as they claim? Their mere opinion
- and that's what that quote is - is just an opinion, not evidence.


Yeah, right. Present _valid_ evidence that Singh and Ernst are wrong
in their evaluation.

The fact that I can get rid of diseases that modern medicine would
treat with pharmaceutical products, shows that it doesn't understand
about nutritional remedies. But not only doesn't modern medicine
understand nutritional remedies, but it doesn't want to understand.

Modern medicine uses micronutrients to treat deficiency diseases, and
you know it.

And by your own admission, your "cures" can't get rid of your fungus.

--
One of the reasons for conspiracy theories is an assumption that
people in high places always know what they are doing. When they
do something that makes no sense, devious reasons are imagined
by conspiracy theorists, when in fact it may be due to plain old
ignorance and incompetence. - Thomas Sowel

I don't believe this saying. I think that people in the very highest
places know exactly what they're doing and the way to go about
achieving it.

I wish I had your confidence in high-level politicians. I don't, since
I'm well aware that humans make errors.

--
HOMOEOPATHY, n. A school of medicine midway between Allopathy
and Christian Science. To the last both the others are distinctly
inferior, for Christian Science will cure imaginary diseases,
and they can not. -Ambrose Bierce

"carole" wrote in
d.com:

--
There are two great secrets of the quack's success. One is the
fact that many human ills, including some of the severest, will
run their course and vanish without treatment of any sort.

But still they prescribe the drugs.

Doctors kinda know which illnesses require drugs, and prescribe
those.

But doctors don't really know which illnesses will respond to
nutritional remedies and which won't.

Micronutrients are very well researched, but you would not know that. If
they had any effect on the illnesses you claim, they would already be
used for those.

The
other half are due to the fact that many of life's ills are
wholly or in part psychosomatic. -Martin Gardner

Allopaths don't know the cause or the cure but arrogance often
works, hey?

That's more like alties - who often rely on spurious methods of
diagnosis.

Yes and no.
I could go into a lot of discussion and there are some areas I'm not
sure about. Alties don't know the diseases and how to diagnose like a
regular doc,

Which is precisely why you should not rely on "alternative medine"
practitioners. If they won't even know which disease is the case, how
would they know what to advise?

some diseases are rare and incurable, but OTOH some
considered incurable aren't.

Please present _valid_ evidence for the cure rate for the incurable
illnesses by "alternative medicine."

Many diseases are the result of toxemia
which has built up over a person's lifetime of wrong eating. Most
alties probably don't know enough about toxemia and acidity and
nutritional cures. There are faults on both sides.

Not that you've ever been able to prove that claim, but try again.

--
To treat your facts with imagination is one thing, but to
imagine your facts is another. -John Burroughs

"carole" wrote in
nd.com:

I completely fail to see how waving magnets - surreptiously or not -
would do anything about the distilled water. If you think otherwise,
please present valid evidence.

I don't know how he could have jeopardised the experiment, but he does
tricks and nobody knows how he does them.

Nobody? Just because you don't know how he does them, does not mean
nobody knows how he does them.

He's a professional stage magician, and just ask any other professional
stage magician if they know how he does them. They do know, it's their
job.

Randi could have known about electromagnetic effect on homeopathic
solutions.

http://www.naturalworldhealing.com/n...namization.htm

"...Vibration and Its Crucial Role in Homeopathy:

A key piece to the puzzle of homeopathy is the role of vibration in
making the medicines. Without it there is no homeopathy. This was
stated by Samuel Hahnemann, M.D., the original describer of the
homeopathic phenomenon. 1. When homeopathic preparations were only
diluted (with a gentle swirling action for mixing with the pure water
added at each step) Hahnemann discovered there was no healing response
when it was given to a patient. 2. When homeopathic preparations were
strongly vibrated (in a method described as "shaking" or "stirring" in
modern literature but done in a specific way that Hahnemann called
"succussion", "dynamization", or "potentization") at higher steps of
dilution he found an increased healing response.

Disruptive vibrations and an unexpected danger:

Further data about the homeopathic phenomenon is fascinating:

1. When the preparations are exposed to a strong electromagnet they
seem to lose their ability to cause a healing response."

All this is nothing but rationalization for why homeopathic remedies do
not work.

There were several doctors on that committee, which means they were
not just laymen. I'm disregarding any paranoid conspiracy fantasies,
btw.

You don't have to disregard paranoid conspiracy theories -- I'm quite
sure they exist.

Yeah, you are. I just won't accept fantasies with no evidence to back
them up.

There are ways that people can interfere in
experiments - either setting them up wrong, putting conditions on
them, qualifying terms, modifying the scope, or others. You wouldn't
always know who is pushing the buttons to get a decision made a
certain way.

More rationalization. I'm not interested in that.

--
The plural of anecdote is not data. -Roger Brinner

"carole" wrote in
ond.com:

Homeopathic malaria prevention is still batting zero.

yes, but allopathic is batting zero on chronic diseases like ms,
diabetes, alzheimers and asthma.

Real medicine can at least offer palliative medication for those
conditions. What does "alternative medicine" have? Nothing but
placebos.

So "real medicine" can't cure but can offer palliative care -- whacko!

That's still more than what "alternative medicine" can offer. It can
offer only placebos.

Yes, but the rockefeller business with pharmaceuticals had $100m to
spend on promoting his drugs to medical colleges in 1904 which
really got his leg in the door.

Not interested in that fantasy novel - and won't accept any of its
unbacked claims - not until some evidence crops up to back them up.

Then do some research over its claims - to see if they're wrong or
right.

I've done so. All the claims I've seen so far are based on that single
book - and with no evidence to back them up. They're dismissed as
paranoid fantasy for that reason.

Pan got caught for dangerously bad quality control - and was slapped
for that.

Not dangerous, as the compounds were low level over the counter herbal
remedies. So I reject the claim that there was any danger to lives.

What makes you think that their sloppy practices would not have extended
to real medicines, which they also manufactured? It's better to snip it
in the bud before it's too late.

And the pbac was replaced by another group of pharmaceutical friendly
people -- no comment? And this is what goes on regularly, that
government bodies are staffed by these pharmaceutical types who are
interchangeable between government positions and pharmaceutical
company jobs.

I won't comment on something I don't know about.

Yes, pharmaceutical drugs are just so efficient - that's why they
contribute to making allopathic the leading cause of death in the
US.

Don't you ever get tired of lying? No matter how many times you
repeat that lie, it won't make it true.

Even if only a leading cause of death, its too much.

It still is not a leading cause of death, no matter how much Gary Null
likes to claim so.

--
Anecdotes are useless precisely because they may point to
idiosyncratic responses. -Author Unknown

Not exactly true, as many anecdotes may point to a whole heap of
idiosyncratic responses which may represent the entire range of
responses, and may form a pattern. So another useless quote.

Anecdotes are useless as evidence for that reason, but you don't seem to
understand that.

--
[Homeopathic] Remedies free of active ingredients worth $20
million derived from a single duck? This has to be the ultimate
form of medical quackery. -Simon Singh & Edzard Ernst