kindergarten "mean girl"

My daughter is in kindergarten this year. She is obsessed with winning the
approval and friendship of this one little girl in her class who is also in
the extended care program with her. This girl is a "leader" (or "alpha")
and many girls seem very taken with her ... even the older girls in 1st,
2nd, 3rd and 4th grade seem to gravitate towards her.

As far as I'm concerned, this girl is a bitch-in-training. She plays mind
games with my daughter all the time. Today, she picked up and threw away a
straw that I was trying to get my daughter to pick up ... she just did it
to stick it to my daughter--I could tell by her timing and demeanor (she
never met anyone's eyes). Yeah, my daughter invited it by refusing to pick
up the straw (because it was "dirty"), but this is a typical example of the
naivete of my daughter's behavior compared to the cold, calculating way
this girl behaves. The other night we were at an event and my daughter was
jumping up and down because she was thrilled to run into this girl, and the
girl just basically ignored her and walked right past her. She does this
all the time. She never hugs her or greets her like other girls do.

The year is almost over now, and this has been an issue the whole time. I
kept hoping it would get better, but it didn't. I feel like my daughter
did not develop any best friends because she couldn't focus on anyone but
this girl who cares nothing for her (except for having fun controlling
her). I am planning on requesting that my daughter is not placed in a
class with this girl next year.

Have any of you seen this kind of situation with girls so young? I just
never thought I'd be seeing this kind of cold, calculating cruelty at this
age. She seems "mean beyond her years."

Have any of you seen this kind of situation with girls so young? I just
never thought I'd be seeing this kind of cold, calculating cruelty at this
age. She seems "mean beyond her years."

At the risk of sounding terribly cynical, I'm not surprised. Kid probably has
parents who ignore her and she probably watches a lot of reality TV.

I DEFINITELY would do everything possible to separate your daughter from this
brat.

In article , GI Trekker says...

Have any of you seen this kind of situation with girls so young? I just
never thought I'd be seeing this kind of cold, calculating cruelty at this
age. She seems "mean beyond her years."

At the risk of sounding terribly cynical, I'm not surprised. Kid probably has
parents who ignore her and she probably watches a lot of reality TV.

You mean she isn't the child of a working mother who stuck her day care at age 1
wk. and doesn't go to church?

You're losing your touch, GI!

Cheers,
Banty (wait, wait - I know! The little mean girl is *obviously* the child of a
singlemom..)

On 7 May 2004 04:59:38 -0700, Banty wrote:

In article , GI Trekker says...

Have any of you seen this kind of situation with girls so young? I just
never thought I'd be seeing this kind of cold, calculating cruelty at this
age. She seems "mean beyond her years."

At the risk of sounding terribly cynical, I'm not surprised. Kid probably has
parents who ignore her and she probably watches a lot of reality TV.

You mean she isn't the child of a working mother who stuck her day care at age 1
wk. and doesn't go to church?

You're losing your touch, GI!

Cheers,
Banty (wait, wait - I know! The little mean girl is *obviously* the child of a
singlemom..)

Her parents are still married. Her mom is similarly cold and bitchy. Her
father seems nice.

On Fri, 07 May 2004 05:23:39 GMT, Calla
wrote:

My daughter is in kindergarten this year. She is obsessed with winning the
approval and friendship of this one little girl in her class who is also in
the extended care program with her. This girl is a "leader" (or "alpha")
and many girls seem very taken with her ... even the older girls in 1st,
2nd, 3rd and 4th grade seem to gravitate towards her.

As far as I'm concerned, this girl is a bitch-in-training. She plays mind
games with my daughter all the time. snip

Have any of you seen this kind of situation with girls so young? I just
never thought I'd be seeing this kind of cold, calculating cruelty at this
age. She seems "mean beyond her years."

I think if you don't back off and let your daughter develop her own
friends and relationships, you're headed for trouble. It doesn't
matter whether you like this little girl or how she treats your
daughter. What matters is that your daughter learn to make a friend or
not and learn to deal with rejection. There is something about this
little girl that attracts others and you're way beyond knowing what
that is and it doesn't matter anyway, because you're not the one who
needs her friendship. Your daughter doesn't *need* it, either, but she
wants it and it's up to her to learn how to get it.

In article , Calla says...

On 7 May 2004 04:59:38 -0700, Banty wrote:

In article , GI Trekker says...

Have any of you seen this kind of situation with girls so young? I just
never thought I'd be seeing this kind of cold, calculating cruelty at this
age. She seems "mean beyond her years."

At the risk of sounding terribly cynical, I'm not surprised. Kid probably has
parents who ignore her and she probably watches a lot of reality TV.

You mean she isn't the child of a working mother who stuck her day care at age 1
wk. and doesn't go to church?

You're losing your touch, GI!

Cheers,
Banty (wait, wait - I know! The little mean girl is *obviously* the child of a
singlemom..)

Her parents are still married. Her mom is similarly cold and bitchy. Her
father seems nice.

So, inquiring minds want to know, do her parents ignore her and does she watch a
lot of reality TV?

Cheers,
Banty

I dunno Calla. I'm the mom of three, and it seems to me you are
focussing on the wrong thing. This other girl might be not so nice,
but why does your daughter need her approval or try so desperately to
get this kids attention?

Its not really the other kid that is the problem (i.e. I'm not hearing
you say that she's actively beating up or ridiculing your daughter).
The real issue is your daughter thinking this girl is the queen of the
universe. If she's got that tendency, in the next class, it will be
someone else - so don't focus so much on the other child as Satan
Incarnate, and think about why your daughter is reacting the way she
is, and how to change that (i.e. working on her self esteem, working
on feeling she doesn't need this kids approval etc.)

My daughter is 6, and believe me, we talk about this stuff a lot,
since I think its a common feature of the way girls tend to operate
(boys are more inclined to be direct, while girls tend play
manipulative power games about who's "in" and who's "out". We had an
issue this year - my daughter got into a thing where she wouldn't wear
certain clothing or hair styles because a particular girl didn't
approve (like Joan Rivers had crowned this 6 year old fashion arbitor
for the planet). It got quite extreme - i.e. my daughter was afraid of
being ridiculed unless she was wearing the "right" thing.

We've diffused it a fair amount by talking about it a lot, even making
jokes about it so she starts to see the silly side of it (ohmigosh,
mummy can't wear these pants because "Emma L." Fashion Queen of the
Entire Universe, won't approve!! Oh noooooo!") and encouraging tons of
play dates and other activities with other girls to foster
friendships. My daughter is working on learning that what SHE thinks
about something is more important than what someone else thinks (i.e.
do you like it? Is it a pretty colour? Is it comfy? Does it fit? Do
you think it looks nice? So, why would we care if Emma L. likes it or
not? She's not wearing it!!)

Clothing in this case is just a microcosm for everything else in terms
of starting to learn to resist peer pressure (i.e. do YOU want to
smoke? Do YOU think its a good idea? Or are you doing it because Emma
L. thinks its cool and says anyone who doesn't is a nerd?"

Mary G.

Calla wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, this girl is a bitch-in-training. She plays mind
games with my daughter all the time. Today, she picked up and threw away a
straw that I was trying to get my daughter to pick up ... she just did it
to stick it to my daughter--I could tell by her timing and demeanor (she
never met anyone's eyes). Yeah, my daughter invited it by refusing to pick
up the straw (because it was "dirty"), but this is a typical example of the
naivete of my daughter's behavior compared to the cold, calculating way
this girl behaves. The other night we were at an event and my daughter was
jumping up and down because she was thrilled to run into this girl, and the
girl just basically ignored her and walked right past her. She does this
all the time. She never hugs her or greets her like other girls do.

The year is almost over now, and this has been an issue the whole time. I
kept hoping it would get better, but it didn't. I feel like my daughter
did not develop any best friends because she couldn't focus on anyone but
this girl who cares nothing for her (except for having fun controlling
her). I am planning on requesting that my daughter is not placed in a
class with this girl next year.

Based on the very little information available, I have to object to the
conclusions that you have formed. Have you tried to think about this
girl objectively? Much of the behavior you describe can be attributed
to poor social skills. The behaviors you described can have an innocent
root, rather than a vicious one. You seem to have formed a strong
opinion of her, and your words that describe her are rather unforgiving
and harsh. You also have the same opinion of her mother.


Have any of you seen this kind of situation with girls so young? I just
never thought I'd be seeing this kind of cold, calculating cruelty at this
age. She seems "mean beyond her years."

Well, yes. I've seen this behavior in my own DD. My daughter isn't
touchy-huggy-feely with any of her friends. With her immediate family,
she's more comfortable, but even with extended family, she's very
reserved. My DD hardly ever says "hi" or "bye" to her friends. But not
out of spite or viciousness. Probably out of poor social skills
combined with conflicting emotions (related to the disappointment of
leaving or the excitement of arriving). In fact, I struggled with
saying "hi" to my friends as a child. I couldn't do it until 3rd grade!
I don't know why, I just couldn't get the words out. I never had mean
intentions. My DD doesn't like to make eye contact with everyone.
Sometimes, she'll be completely comfortable. Sometimes, a well-meaning
and very nice stranger will make her anxious. Are you sure this girl
wasn't just trying to help with the straw, but just didn't have the
words to say, "I'll help"? And as far as ignoring people, my DD does
that sometimes, mostly cause she's in her own world, or perhaps because
she doesn't have the social skills to deal with the situation. I've
tried to coach her, but she learns all this stuff at her own pace.

Not all "nice" kids are huggy-touchy-feely. You seem to have this girl
and her mom pegged. Is there any good example of mean, cold, and bitchy
behavior, besides not hugging/greeting and not making eye contact?

--
Jeannie
E-mail: jeannie at talisweb dot see oh em
Web: http://www.moonflour.com

Calla wrote in message ...
My daughter is in kindergarten this year. She is obsessed with winning the
approval and friendship of this one little girl in her class who is also in
the extended care program with her. This girl is a "leader" (or "alpha")
and many girls seem very taken with her ... even the older girls in 1st,
2nd, 3rd and 4th grade seem to gravitate towards her.

As far as I'm concerned, this girl is a bitch-in-training. She plays mind
games with my daughter all the time. Today, she picked up and threw away a
straw that I was trying to get my daughter to pick up ... she just did it
to stick it to my daughter--I could tell by her timing and demeanor (she
never met anyone's eyes). Yeah, my daughter invited it by refusing to pick
up the straw (because it was "dirty"), but this is a typical example of the
naivete of my daughter's behavior compared to the cold, calculating way
this girl behaves. The other night we were at an event and my daughter was
jumping up and down because she was thrilled to run into this girl, and the
girl just basically ignored her and walked right past her. She does this
all the time. She never hugs her or greets her like other girls do.

The year is almost over now, and this has been an issue the whole time. I
kept hoping it would get better, but it didn't. I feel like my daughter
did not develop any best friends because she couldn't focus on anyone but
this girl who cares nothing for her (except for having fun controlling
her). I am planning on requesting that my daughter is not placed in a
class with this girl next year.

Have any of you seen this kind of situation with girls so young? I just
never thought I'd be seeing this kind of cold, calculating cruelty at this
age. She seems "mean beyond her years."

I haven't read anything in your message that I'd consider "cold,
calculating cruelty" when done by a 6 YO, though I understand that you
haven't told us everything you know about and have seen from this
girl. Kids are often rude even without meaning to be mean. And when
they don't like, or just aren't interested in, another child, they can
often be all too direct about it -- again, not necessarily because
they are cruel people or "bitches in training," but because they're
not quite "civilized" yet.

I assume this is your oldest child? All I can say is that I know how
much it HURTS to see your child rejected. Your story reminded me so
much of a friendship my son made in preschool. This looked like a real
friendship -- the other boy used to ask my son to ask me if he could
come over (would hear him doing this), and they played together so
well here. But outside of preschool (and, later, kindergarten) and my
house, the boy literally acted as if he didn't know my son. To this
day, I cannot figure it out (boy lives in our neighborhood, so he is
still a small presence in our lives), but I think it has something to
do with this boy being the youngest of 3 boys and usually hanging out
with his older brothers' friends. Also, he is VERY competitive and
athletic, as are all his other friends, and my son isn't athletic. So,
my son was not the brothers' speed, and so the boy "shook him off"
whenever he had other options. I tell you, I wanted to strangle this
child a couple of times when my little 5 YO would go running up to him
at our pool (or wherever), only to be completely ignored, like he was
*invisible* -- and this might be the day after the boy was at our
house playing and having snacks at my table etc.!! Oh, God, I'm
getting myself all worked up about it again!

Anyway, I'm relating this is order to tell you that I did come, over
the course of a few years, to recognize that though this boy's
behavior was really not nice, and he may not be the kindest person on
the planet, he is also not a monster. He's a kid. I did basically end
the relationship, though. I stopped letting my son have the boy over,
and I pointed out the ways in which this boy was not a true friend.

So, I'm writing this to say, "keep it in perspective," as hard as that
is when your little child's feelings are on the line. Your child needs
you to help her make sense of the nonsensical and sometimes very
hurtful ways that other people act, and you will not do her any favors
by making mountains out of molehills in her life. Good luck!

That little b!+c# needs some extreme disciplinary action. A little
girl does not deserve any more leniency than a little boy.