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LaVonne, where art thou?



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 25th 03, 10:40 PM
LaVonne Carlson
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Default Fern enlightens us with her knowledge of research metholodocy LaVonne, where art thou?



Fern5827 wrote:

Guess Lavonne never took any Statistics courses, nor experimental design
classes.


How silly. I'll request a better experimental design, which undoubtedly you can
provide for us. Now remember, Fern, null hypothesis is what we are talking about
here. And, sample size affects outcome in many ways..which you will soon explain
to us. You will also explain to us the meaning and effect of weighted analysis
and why this would be used to correct for error. Then, you will explain the
statistical properties of your study, and include a discussion section. I'm
particularly interested in hearing you explain ANOVA, and how you think this
specific analysis could apply to research.

She probably never read 1984, either.


I did read this book. Is this another example of your idea of research?

LaVonne


  #12  
Old August 25th 03, 11:15 PM
Doan
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Default Doans wants to debate Straus et al 1997 was LaVonne, whereart thou?


On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, LaVonne Carlson wrote:

Doan wrote:

Let's start with Straus et al (1997) where you and Chris said the mothers
are not teenage mothers. Your move! :-)


Yes, let's start with that. Post the reference to the study, and evidence for
your debate issue.

LaVonne

Post the reference to the study??? Are you saying that you have not read
the study? Are you still clinging on the claim that the mothers are not
teenage mothers???

Doan


  #13  
Old August 25th 03, 11:17 PM
Doan
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Default LaVonne, where art thou?

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, LaVonne Carlson wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" wrote:

Doan wrote:

Trust me, I have always read the studies that I've debated on. My
conclusion is backed up by admission of the authors themselves.

-------------
No it isn't, you liar. Just go the **** away.
Steve


Like you, Steve, I have major doubts that Doan has read the studies he's debated,
but he may have. I don't know. He just challenged me on a Straus et.al study.
I asked him to post a reference and his evidence for his claim. Let's see what
he can do!

LaVonne

Reference? How about Straus et al (1997)?

Doan


  #14  
Old August 25th 03, 11:39 PM
Doan
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Default Doan's post to LaVonne LaVonne, where art thou?

Doan wrote:

Usually I would wast my time responding to Steve, but this is not for
Steve. :-) This is for LaVonne, who ACCUSED me of "making erroneous
assumptions which lead to erroneous conclusions". I guess Straus make
the same mistake as I did! ;-)

"We are indebted to Larzelere et al for alerting us to the likelihood that our
no-spanking group includes occasional spankers. To the extent that this is
the case, the decrease in antisocial behavior that we found for children in
the "none" group may indicate an improvement in the behavior of children whose
parents spank, but do so only infrequently. Although that is a plausible
interpretation, data from another study enable us to investigate
this issue by classifying spanking as "never" or "not in the past 6 months,"
or the frequency of corporal punishment (CP) in the previous 6 months.[1] "


And this is a perfect example of the futility of debate with you. You don't
understand this statement, you took the statement out of context, and you provide
no reference so others can refer to the passage you have posted

If I have taken this statement OUT OF CONTEXT, would you please put this
in the context to prove your accusation? I have been on this newsgroup
since 1998 and debating this study since. Either you are suffering from
senility or you are asking for reference just to dance around and avoiding
the issue.

[1] -This is the Straus & Mouradian (1998) study, which we now know
that the non-cp alternatives correlated to anti-sociable behavior
even stronger than spanking!


This is another garbage statement with no evidence of the sort. Did you read this
study? Please provide the reference and page no. of the journal that allowed you
to come to such a bizarre conclusion. I will not do the work for you this time.

I have provided the reference numerous times. Are you saying that, in
Straus & Mouradian (1998), the correlation between asb and non-cp
alternatives are not stronger than with spanking???

For those who are not familiar with Straus et al (1997). The "zero-group"
comprised 56% of the sample. This group show an improvement after two
years. Straus wanted others to believe that this is a "no-spanking"
group to further his agenda... until Dr. Larzelere pointed it out to him!


Read the conclusions, Doan. Read the hypothesis. Read the methodology. State
reference and page number that allowed you to draw this conclusion. What was the
purpose of the study? I have the study in front of me and I can do it for you, but
this time I will not do this. You brought up the study, you back up your claims.

LaVonne


Yes, LaVonne. Read the study? And and read the admission by Straus for
his "failure to to perceive the SERIOUS LIMITATION". It is in March 1998
issue, LaVonne.

"Straus, for example, has made explicit the fact that his research is
motivated by secular humanism. This includes a deeply held belief that
good ends should not be sought by bad means; that all forms of interpersonal
violence, including spanking, are wrong, even when motivated by love and
concern; and that we therefore need to develop nonviolent methods of
preventing and correcting antisocial behavior. These deeply held values may
account for the failure of Straus to perceive the serious limitation of
measuring CP using a 1-week reference period."
(ARCHIVES, In Reply. March 1998)

You wanted reference, you got it. It's not new. For anyone who had
followed this newsgroup since 1998 knew that I have posted them numerous
times. Let's see how long you can dance around this! ;-)

Doan








  #15  
Old August 26th 03, 01:36 AM
Jim
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Default LaVonne, where art thou?

LaVonne Carlson wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" wrote:

Doan wrote:

Trust me, I have always read the studies that I've debated on. My
conclusion is backed up by admission of the authors themselves.

-------------
No it isn't, you liar. Just go the **** away.
Steve


Like you, Steve, I have major doubts that Doan has read the studies he's debated,


Beautiful. It's great to check in and see Steve and LaVonne on the
same team. . . . With the exception of language used there are
really quite similar in their response to valid questioning of the
almighty studies.

--
Jim
  #16  
Old August 26th 03, 07:32 AM
Doan
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Posts: n/a
Default Fern enlightens us with her knowledge of research metholodocy

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, LaVonne Carlson wrote:



Fern5827 wrote:

Guess Lavonne never took any Statistics courses, nor experimental design
classes.


How silly. I'll request a better experimental design, which undoubtedly you can
provide for us. Now remember, Fern, null hypothesis is what we are talking about
here. And, sample size affects outcome in many ways..which you will soon explain
to us. You will also explain to us the meaning and effect of weighted analysis
and why this would be used to correct for error. Then, you will explain the
statistical properties of your study, and include a discussion section. I'm
particularly interested in hearing you explain ANOVA, and how you think this
specific analysis could apply to research.

You could also explain how the author of the study would have to admit
"failure to perceive SERIOUS LIMITATION"

"Straus, for example, has made explicit the fact that his research is
motivated by secular humanism. This includes a deeply held belief that
good ends should not be sought by bad means; that all forms of interpersonal
violence, including spanking, are wrong, even when motivated by love and
concern; and that we therefore need to develop nonviolent methods of
preventing and correcting antisocial behavior. These deeply held values may
account for the failure of Straus to perceive the serious limitation of
measuring CP using a 1-week reference period."
(ARCHIVES, In Reply. March 1998)

Perhaps, Dr. LaVonne should give Straus a pointer or two. ;-)

Doan

  #17  
Old August 26th 03, 07:35 AM
Doan
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Posts: n/a
Default LaVonne, where art thou?

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, Jim wrote:

LaVonne Carlson wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" wrote:

Doan wrote:

Trust me, I have always read the studies that I've debated on. My
conclusion is backed up by admission of the authors themselves.
-------------
No it isn't, you liar. Just go the **** away.
Steve


Like you, Steve, I have major doubts that Doan has read the studies he's debated,


Beautiful. It's great to check in and see Steve and LaVonne on the
same team. . . . With the exception of language used there are
really quite similar in their response to valid questioning of the
almighty studies.

--
Jim

Maybe LaVonne is proud of the fact that Steve is a professed
"never-spanked" kid! ;-)

Doan


  #18  
Old August 27th 03, 04:30 AM
R. Steve Walz
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Default LaVonne, where art thou?

Doan wrote:

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Doan wrote:

Doan wrote:

It has been over seven weeks now since LaVonne posted "studies that have
not been discussed in this newsgroup". I challenged her to debate me
on these so-called studies. Why is she so afraid to take me on?

I've debated you on studies more times than I can count. Some of the time
it appears you have read the studies, other times it is apparent that you
have not. Your debate history has included making erroneous assumptions
which lead to erroneous conclusions, and then continuing to repeat your
error after the statistical methodology was explained in detail.

Trust me, I have always read the studies that I've debated on. My
conclusion is backed up by admission of the authors themselves. You made
the accusiations, now let's see if you can back them. Show me my
'erroneous assumption" and I will show you where the authors said the
same thing as I did. C'mon, LaVonne! Put up or shut up.

This is not debate, Doan. This is a waste of my time, your time, and the
time of everyone else reading the ng's that you post and cross-post to. If
you want to debate a study, post the study and your comments. You
certainly should have enough references by now.

Let's start with Straus et al (1997) where you and Chris said the mothers
are not teenage mothers. Your move! :-)

Doan

Typical of LaVonne, she made accusations against me and then ran away when
confronted. Is this all that the anti-spanking zealotS can mustered???

Doan

-------------------
No, you ****ing liar, we simply grow tired of repeating everything
with you, since you seek to deceive others by reposting every argument
as if it were new from the beginning and pretending that your reasoning
and lies were never demolished the LAST time we did so!
Steve
  #19  
Old August 27th 03, 04:35 AM
R. Steve Walz
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Posts: n/a
Default LaVonne, where art thou?

Doan wrote:

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, Jim wrote:

LaVonne Carlson wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" wrote:

Doan wrote:

Trust me, I have always read the studies that I've debated on. My
conclusion is backed up by admission of the authors themselves.
-------------
No it isn't, you liar. Just go the **** away.
Steve

Like you, Steve, I have major doubts that Doan has read the studies he's debated,


Beautiful. It's great to check in and see Steve and LaVonne on the
same team. . . . With the exception of language used there are
really quite similar in their response to valid questioning of the
almighty studies.

--
Jim

Maybe LaVonne is proud of the fact that Steve is a professed
"never-spanked" kid! ;-)

Doan

------------
Since she and I have never met, why in the world would THAT be, you
****-****ing disingenuous LIAR?
Steve
  #20  
Old August 27th 03, 04:37 AM
R. Steve Walz
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Posts: n/a
Default LaVonne, where art thou?

Doan wrote:

On 26 Aug 2003, Chris wrote:

In alt.parenting.spanking Jim wrote:
: LaVonne Carlson wrote:

:"R. Steve Walz" wrote:
:
: Doan wrote:
:
: Trust me, I have always read the studies that I've debated on. My
: conclusion is backed up by admission of the authors themselves.
: -------------
: No it isn't, you liar. Just go the **** away.
: Steve
:
:Like you, Steve, I have major doubts that Doan has read the studies he's debated,

: Beautiful. It's great to check in and see Steve and LaVonne on the
: same team. . . . With the exception of language used there are
: really quite similar in their response to valid questioning of the
: almighty studies.

I don't see any "valid questioning" in your note, just a snide
comment about other people.

How about raising a valid question about a study you have actually
read and which antispankers on this newsgroup have cited?

Chris

LOL! So Steve, the "never-spanked" kid, raised a "valid questioning"???

How about you admitting that the mothers in Straus et al (1997) were
teenage mothers? You did say you taught math at the "college level",
didn't you? ;-)

Doan

--------------
You fail to mention that this argument and your cite were blown to
hell last time you fleshed it out, which is why you coyly post only
your vague reference, you simply want to drag out your demise one
more time in hopes of deceiving a bunch of folks in the mean time
that you actually might have an argument, which you actually DON'T!
Steve
 




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