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buying violin



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 7th 05, 09:38 PM
H Schinske
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Default buying violin

I've been thinking it is probably time to buy my daughter a violin instead of
continuing to rent (as the rent very quickly adds up to more than the violin
would cost, and she is pretty sure to use it for a while yet, plus a decent
violin will hold value). Just now the place we are renting from has a $150
discount, plus we've already rented it for more than nine months, so nine
months' rent would go towards the purchase. The question is whether the violin
itself is good enough. It sounds pretty darned good to me, better than some of
the others she tried, but I am no string player, and not that much of a
musician. She's taking school lessons, not private ones, so I can't just ask
the teacher (well, I can, but he's not specifically a string teacher and I
don't think it's his major area, plus he is incredibly busy).

This particular violin was made at the place that rents it, and they have a
very good reputation, but of course this is not one of their top-flight models.
We could swap for any other that they have, but in the midst of a sale they
probably have less selection than usual of the student-level violins. I need to
ask them if they would be willing to buy it back (assuming good condition of
course) in a couple of years, and what that value might be.

Any advice, other things I should be thinking about? (It is a full size, by the
way.)

--Helen


  #2  
Old January 8th 05, 12:04 AM
Ericka Kammerer
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Default

H Schinske wrote:

I've been thinking it is probably time to buy my daughter a violin instead of
continuing to rent


snip

Any advice, other things I should be thinking about? (It is a full size, by the
way.)


I know precisely squat about violins, but have been around the
block a few times buying instruments. If your daughter seems pretty
committed to violin and you think odds are she'll be playing for
several years, I would target a model that is probably a bit better
than what you started with. I think the ideal scenario with
instruments if you end up with someone who continues to play
seriously through college is:

- one starter instrument (for a flute, that would be a $200-400
instrument)
- one intermediate instrument (by jr. high, which would be about
a $1000-$1500 flute)
- one professional or near-professional instrument by late
high school/early college, which would be a flute in the
$3000+ range)

You've got the starter instrument, and starter instruments
typically don't last more than 2-3 years max with someone
who's putting significant effort into it. So, she's probably
put in about half of its effective lifespan. If you buy
this violin and she stops playing before, say, jr. high,
you win. If you buy this violin and she really puts a lot
of effort into it, you could be looking at a new violin
in as little as a year. I'm assuming what you've got is,
in fact, a starter instrument.

Ultimately, it's always a judgement call based on how much
effort the child is putting into it, what you can afford,
and how long you think the child will continue playing.
You win some, you lose some ;-) Speaking of instruments,
though, mine needs an adjustment badly...better find a
tech nearby...

Best wishes,
Ericka

  #3  
Old January 8th 05, 12:47 AM
Donna Metler
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Default

Ditto on what Erica said. In general, I don't recommend buying a starter
instrument after the student has been playing a year or more, because
they'll need an intermediate level one within the next year or two anyway.
It makes a major difference as to sound quality and intonation. In addition
(and this is as an experienced musician and music teacher), musical
instruments are one area where buying used is often better than buying new.
Like cars, depreciation is highest in the first year, and any major
manufacturing flaws appear during the inital break in period. In addition,
strings go out of tune very quickly during the first months, and pegs can
slip. For winds, leaks in pads and lubrication problems are typical during
the first months. Since most students don't play a beginning or intermediate
instrument for more than a few years anyway, there is a continual supply of
used ones which are very good instruments at several hundred dollars less.

Be aware that while your daughter's rental violin was almost certainly used
when she got it, on a rent to own deal you will be charged new price, so a
used instrment of the same make, model, and age may end up costing less. If
you upgrade through the music store, find out what it costs to buy outright,
then ask about applying your rental. Musical instrument purchases,
especially used ones, are one place where haggling, either in actual cost or
in accessories, is reasonable and expected, particularly past the beginning
level.

If you decide to buy used, especially privately, do the same thing you'd do
with a car-have someone knowledgeable check out the instrument as to
mechanical condition. I'd also suggest asking on a music teacher's board
(www.teachers.net) has one, as to the make/model of any instrument you're
considering, as SOMEONE there will be not only a teacher of almost any
instrument known to man, but actually someone who is a specialist in that
instrument, and therefore has probably had experience with many different
types of the same instrument.


--
Donna DeVore Metler
Orff Music Specialist/Band/Choir
Mother to Angel Brian Anthony 1/1/2002, 22 weeks, severe PE/HELLP
And Allison Joy, 11/26/04 (35 weeks, PIH, Pre-term labor)
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
H Schinske wrote:

I've been thinking it is probably time to buy my daughter a violin

instead of
continuing to rent


snip

Any advice, other things I should be thinking about? (It is a full size,

by the
way.)


I know precisely squat about violins, but have been around the
block a few times buying instruments. If your daughter seems pretty
committed to violin and you think odds are she'll be playing for
several years, I would target a model that is probably a bit better
than what you started with. I think the ideal scenario with
instruments if you end up with someone who continues to play
seriously through college is:

- one starter instrument (for a flute, that would be a $200-400
instrument)
- one intermediate instrument (by jr. high, which would be about
a $1000-$1500 flute)
- one professional or near-professional instrument by late
high school/early college, which would be a flute in the
$3000+ range)

You've got the starter instrument, and starter instruments
typically don't last more than 2-3 years max with someone
who's putting significant effort into it. So, she's probably
put in about half of its effective lifespan. If you buy
this violin and she stops playing before, say, jr. high,
you win. If you buy this violin and she really puts a lot
of effort into it, you could be looking at a new violin
in as little as a year. I'm assuming what you've got is,
in fact, a starter instrument.

Ultimately, it's always a judgement call based on how much
effort the child is putting into it, what you can afford,
and how long you think the child will continue playing.
You win some, you lose some ;-) Speaking of instruments,
though, mine needs an adjustment badly...better find a
tech nearby...

Best wishes,
Ericka



  #4  
Old January 8th 05, 03:42 AM
HCN
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"H Schinske" wrote in message
...
I've been thinking it is probably time to buy my daughter a violin instead
of
continuing to rent (as the rent very quickly adds up to more than the
violin
would cost, and she is pretty sure to use it for a while yet, plus a
decent
violin will hold value). Just now the place we are renting from has a $150
discount, plus we've already rented it for more than nine months, so nine
months' rent would go towards the purchase. The question is whether the
violin
itself is good enough. It sounds pretty darned good to me, better than
some of
the others she tried, but I am no string player, and not that much of a
musician. She's taking school lessons, not private ones, so I can't just
ask
the teacher (well, I can, but he's not specifically a string teacher and I
don't think it's his major area, plus he is incredibly busy).


I was going to suggest you ask the violin teacher... but since you have only
the school one that is out. So, perhaps it might be useful to seek out a
violin teacher ---

.... or ... see if other students in the school have parents or friends who
are violin players who can help you decide?

Even without trying we have run into several violin players who have an
opinion. There is one parent who helps with the strings at my daughter's
school just because she can. Then last summer during the district's summer
music program one mom whose son was in my daughter's string class was a
professional violin player who had played in the same orchestra as my
daughter's private teacher! (this is really just a medium sized West Coast
town!).

We were lucky. When it came time to get a 4/4 violin, we had my
mother-in-law's first full size. She got it when she was 16 in a small town
in Canada just before WWII. There is no label, but my daughter's private
teacher says it is a very nice instrument with a good sound.

When we got it there were no strings and also the bridge and tail-piece were
missing. We got these repaired at a family owned violin shop (where we had
rented her little violins), and it works well (we had bridge tuners
installed on all 4 strings so she did not have to muck with the scroll
pegs). It also had a policy where that you could use 9 months rent to buy a
new instrument. Unfortunately that did not apply to either the repair nor a
new case.


This particular violin was made at the place that rents it, and they have
a
very good reputation, but of course this is not one of their top-flight
models.
We could swap for any other that they have, but in the midst of a sale
they
probably have less selection than usual of the student-level violins. I
need to
ask them if they would be willing to buy it back (assuming good condition
of
course) in a couple of years, and what that value might be.

Any advice, other things I should be thinking about? (It is a full size,
by the
way.)


I wish I had better advice (our son's rental saxophone was evaluated by his
teacher as decent/good, but since she was well known in local alternative
jazz circles I dropped her name at the store, which helped: THEN she had to
go move to New York to try the big time!! erg .. from big fish in little
berg to krill in the Big Apple).

But I can hope that what happened to at least one other family does not
happen to you: They bought their daughter the violin, and then she decided
to completely quit playing within a year.

Of course, I just hope her reason for quitting was NOT the middle school
orchestra! That will be the same one my daughter will be in next year.
(though we are very fortunate to have a wonderfully wacky private violin
teacher who knows how to deal with our daughter, even when she threatens to
quit)

--Helen




  #5  
Old January 8th 05, 03:45 AM
HCN
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"H Schinske" wrote in message
...
I've been thinking it is probably time to buy my daughter a violin instead
of
continuing to rent (as the rent very quickly adds up to more than the
violin
would cost, and she is pretty sure to use it for a while yet, plus a
decent
violin will hold value). Just now the place we are renting from has a $150
discount, plus we've already rented it for more than nine months, so nine
months' rent would go towards the purchase. The question is whether the
violin
itself is good enough. It sounds pretty darned good to me, better than
some of
the others she tried, but I am no string player, and not that much of a
musician. She's taking school lessons, not private ones, so I can't just
ask
the teacher (well, I can, but he's not specifically a string teacher and I
don't think it's his major area, plus he is incredibly busy).


I was going to suggest you ask the violin teacher... but since you have only
the school one that is out. So, perhaps it might be useful to seek out a
violin teacher ---

.... or ... see if other students in the school have parents or friends who
are violin players who can help you decide?

Even without trying we have run into several violin players who have an
opinion. There is one parent who helps with the strings at my daughter's
school just because she can. Then last summer during the district's summer
music program one mom whose son was in my daughter's string class was a
professional violin player who had played in the same orchestra as my
daughter's private teacher! (this is really just a medium sized West Coast
town!).

We were lucky. When it came time to get a 4/4 violin, we had my
mother-in-law's first full size. She got it when she was 16 in a small town
in Canada just before WWII. There is no label, but my daughter's private
teacher says it is a very nice instrument with a good sound.

When we got it there were no strings and also the bridge and tail-piece were
missing. We got these repaired at a family owned violin shop (where we had
rented her little violins), and it works well (we had bridge tuners
installed on all 4 strings so she did not have to muck with the scroll
pegs). It also had a policy where that you could use 9 months rent to buy a
new instrument. Unfortunately that did not apply to either the repair nor a
new case.


This particular violin was made at the place that rents it, and they have
a
very good reputation, but of course this is not one of their top-flight
models.
We could swap for any other that they have, but in the midst of a sale
they
probably have less selection than usual of the student-level violins. I
need to
ask them if they would be willing to buy it back (assuming good condition
of
course) in a couple of years, and what that value might be.

Any advice, other things I should be thinking about? (It is a full size,
by the
way.)


I wish I had better advice (our son's rental saxophone was evaluated by his
teacher as decent/good, but since she was well known in local alternative
jazz circles I dropped her name at the store, which helped: THEN she had to
go move to New York to try the big time!! erg .. from big fish in little
berg to krill in the Big Apple).

But I can hope that what happened to at least one other family does not
happen to you: They bought their daughter the violin, and then she decided
to completely quit playing within a year.

Of course, I just hope her reason for quitting was NOT the middle school
orchestra! That will be the same one my daughter will be in next year.
(though we are very fortunate to have a wonderfully wacky private violin
teacher who knows how to deal with our daughter, even when she threatens to
quit)

--Helen





  #6  
Old January 8th 05, 04:05 AM
HCN
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


,, musician. She's taking school lessons, not private ones, so I can't just
ask
the teacher (well, I can, but he's not specifically a string teacher and I
don't think it's his major area, plus he is incredibly busy).

....

Sorry for the double post... new ISP usenet system (it may happen again) ---
but I saw a comment of yours in another post (rhythm in children) ---

During the time when we were spending lots of bucks on one child's speech
therapy, the cost of private music lessons was reasonable in comparison
(during that time the 5 of us took driving vacations stuffed into a tiny
sedan, we only bought a van when he "graduated" from speech therapy). So
each kid started private music lessons when they were 5 years old (though
the oldest was released after just a short while when he demonstrated a
profound "anti-practicitis" condition -- absolute refusal to touch the
keyboard between lessons).

I knew the $$$$$$ we spent on music lessons was worthwhile when child #2
declared he hated Brittany Spears! And then to top it off... the youngest
told me to switch the radio from Radio Disney to the local classical radio
station. Woo hoo!!!

(note: I do not play an instrument, I spent my childhood being dragged
around from place to place as an Army brat, it is hard to establish lessons
when you move every year or two... but I did marry into a musical family, so
I go along with it all)


  #7  
Old January 8th 05, 04:56 PM
Welches
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Posts: n/a
Default


"H Schinske" wrote in message
...
I've been thinking it is probably time to buy my daughter a violin instead
of
continuing to rent (as the rent very quickly adds up to more than the
violin
would cost, and she is pretty sure to use it for a while yet, plus a
decent
violin will hold value). Just now the place we are renting from has a $150
discount, plus we've already rented it for more than nine months, so nine
months' rent would go towards the purchase. The question is whether the
violin
itself is good enough. It sounds pretty darned good to me, better than
some of
the others she tried, but I am no string player, and not that much of a
musician. She's taking school lessons, not private ones, so I can't just
ask
the teacher (well, I can, but he's not specifically a string teacher and I
don't think it's his major area, plus he is incredibly busy).

This particular violin was made at the place that rents it, and they have
a
very good reputation, but of course this is not one of their top-flight
models.
We could swap for any other that they have, but in the midst of a sale
they
probably have less selection than usual of the student-level violins. I
need to
ask them if they would be willing to buy it back (assuming good condition
of
course) in a couple of years, and what that value might be.

Any advice, other things I should be thinking about? (It is a full size,
by the
way.)

I learnt the violin as a child and one thing my violin was brilliant at was
staying in tune. I mean I can get it out now, having hardly played it in 10
years and it's just out of tune. It only needed gentle tuning each week. My
brother's on the other hand would be out of tune by the end of an half hour
lesson!

Check the bow is well haired-the hairs shouldn't come out too often either.

Are the strings in good order (I expect if you buy it you may be able to ask
for replacement strings as an extra) Look along the strings and check
they're not going to go shortly.

Check the bridge is in position and doesn't slip, or is bent.

Unless the floor falls out of the violin market ;-P it's probably relavent
to ask them what proportion of the value of the violin they pay when buying
back. Unless your daughter does anything drastic (like a somersault on top
of it as I remember happening to a cello) I don't imagine the value will
change drastically.

Oh and it wants a hard case-occasionally places use soft ones.
Debbie


  #8  
Old January 8th 05, 09:59 PM
Lesley
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Posts: n/a
Default

H Schinske wrote:
I've been thinking it is probably time to buy my daughter a violin instead of
continuing to rent (as the rent very quickly adds up to more than the violin
would cost, and she is pretty sure to use it for a while yet, plus a decent
violin will hold value). Just now the place we are renting from has a $150
discount, plus we've already rented it for more than nine months, so nine
months' rent would go towards the purchase. The question is whether the violin
itself is good enough. It sounds pretty darned good to me, better than some of
the others she tried, but I am no string player, and not that much of a
musician. She's taking school lessons, not private ones, so I can't just ask
the teacher (well, I can, but he's not specifically a string teacher and I
don't think it's his major area, plus he is incredibly busy).

This particular violin was made at the place that rents it, and they have a
very good reputation, but of course this is not one of their top-flight models.
We could swap for any other that they have, but in the midst of a sale they
probably have less selection than usual of the student-level violins. I need to
ask them if they would be willing to buy it back (assuming good condition of
course) in a couple of years, and what that value might be.

Any advice, other things I should be thinking about? (It is a full size, by the
way.)

--Helen


We'll most likely be buying a 4/4 sometime this spring. DD has about
outgrown the 3/4, which we own. Neither DH or I play either, so we're
fairly clueless too. DD is taking lessons, so her teacher has given
some input. These two online retailers come recommended, both by the
teacher and other parents
http://www.stringworks.com/
www.sharmusic.com

Both will apparently allow you to try out violins to determine which
tone you/DD prefer.

Our teacher requests we get a wood bow, not composite.

Lesley
  #9  
Old January 8th 05, 10:02 PM
Lesley
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Posts: n/a
Default

HCN wrote:



But I can hope that what happened to at least one other family does not
happen to you: They bought their daughter the violin, and then she decided
to completely quit playing within a year.



We are going to make a major deal before we buy one that the purchase
commits her to at least finishing out middle school orchestra (two more
years.) So far, she adores it but I want that promise regardless. :-)

Lesley
  #10  
Old January 10th 05, 12:50 AM
H Schinske
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ericka's post isn't coming up on my server yet, so I had to get it off Google
Groups:

"- one starter instrument (for a flute, that would be a $200-400
instrument)
- one intermediate instrument (by jr. high, which would be about
a $1000-$1500 flute)
- one professional or near-professional instrument by late
high school/early college, which would be a flute in the
$3000+ range)

You've got the starter instrument, and starter instruments
typically don't last more than 2-3 years max with someone
who's putting significant effort into it. So, she's probably
put in about half of its effective lifespan. If you buy
this violin and she stops playing before, say, jr. high,
you win. If you buy this violin and she really puts a lot
of effort into it, you could be looking at a new violin
in as little as a year. I'm assuming what you've got is,
in fact, a starter instrument."

Well, that's the thing, I'm not at all sure it is really a "starter"
instrument, given the price and the maker's reputation (unless they're vastly
overcharging me for what I understand is known to the profession as a
"violin-shaped object" ;-) ). I would have thought a violin that costs
(nominally) $800 would not be one to lose its value in a few years.

--Helen
 




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