Arizona - CPS Case Worker Admits Credit Card Fraud

"Ron" wrote in message
...

Ron, Do you really think that spelling my name wrong
and in lower case enhances your credibility?
You've taken to spelling my name wrong, though you do use
upper case.

Why, exactly, is it acceptable for you, but unacceptable for

Ron? How do you rationalize this?

Ron should be setting a better example.

Why is Ron held to a higher standard of behavior than Greg?

Kent

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons...
for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Why shouldn't a foster parent be held to a higher standard of behavior
then one he accuses of abuse?
gregg admits to abusing, but that is beside the point.

That is NOT what I read in Gregg's statements.

I cant help it kenny is you chose to intentionally ignore things. After
all, given your history I'd not be surprised to find your name in a CPS
file somewhere.

No I just don't slant and mischaracterize what he's said.

He admits putting the kid in the shower.

Now THERE is the crime of the century. Putting a dirty kid in a shower!

Ronny as you make a huge deal of this... TRY to factor in that in
dependency cases where the "accused" is not a biological parent, they are
BARRED from appearing to defend themselves or be represented by counsel.
They are not entitled to counsel if they can't afford a lawyer. It is so
EASY for a judgmental asshole like you to keep throwing stones instead of
seeing the bigger problem. Would Gregg have had to go to first base IF he
had been allowed to be heard and he had his own lawyer? My bet, looking at
the allegations, is that the case would never have gotten past the first
hearing if he had his own lawyer especially if he had a decent lawyer.

LK wrote:
I apologize if this comes twice, last try said session expired.

On Dec 31 2007, 7:54 pm, Ron wrote:
Greegor wrote:
On Dec 31, 8:52 am, LK wrote:
On Dec 30, 11:51 pm, Greegor wrote:
KW Why is Ron held to a higher standard of behavior than Greg?
LK Why shouldn't a foster parent be held
LK to a higher standard of behavior
LK then one he accuses of abuse?
RVD gregg admits to abusing, but that is beside the point.
I admit to doing things that YOU exaggerate to call abuse.
No sex, no blood, no broken bones.
Don't smoke, drink liquor or do drugs.
RVD As a foster parent I am held to a higher
RVD standard, than the regular parent.
LK But there are ways around that, right?
The foster agency itself investigates accusations
of abuse in foster care, not CPS.
They're all the same to me. A babystealer is a babystealer.
BOTH agencies have a vested interest in
minimizing or playing down such abuse
as much as they can get away with.
The validity of the screening process and the
pretense that fosters are superior are proven
wrong quite regularly by foster abuse incidents.
You don't think Ron is superior?
I mean even as far as foster parents go?
Look up in this newsgroup where we had fun with
him declaring himself a "training Nazi".
(As opposed to a teacher)
Gee gregg, could you be more ignorant? That was kneals claim, not mine.
Try and get the players right, will ya?







It was part of his on-line Role Playing Game stuff.
Ron seems egotistical.
If he goes to church and they talk about
how we are all imperfect, you can bet that
Ron tells him self that doesn't apply to him.
Remember that some people are compelled
to go into law enforcement because they
get a big kick out of lording over other people.
Did you see how Cops have this huge rate
of Domestic Violence and how the police
force does everything they can to make any
accusation go away?
Domestic violence 'eh? Well, you would be the news group expert in that
area now wouldnt you gregg.

He is right you know Ron. http://www.womenandpolicing.org/violenceFS.asp

Two studies have found that at least 40% of police officer families
experience domestic violence, (1, 2) in contrast to 10% of families in
the general population.(3) A third study of older and more experienced
officers found a rate of 24% (4), indicating that domestic violence is
2-4 times more common among police families than American families in
general. A police department that has domestic violence offenders
among its ranks will not effectively serve and protect victims in the
community.5, 6, 7, 8 Moreover, when officers know of domestic violence
committed by their colleagues and seek to protect them by covering it
up, they expose the department to civil liability.7

Now he'll defend himself saying that I never provide facts, although I
just did. Huh Ron.

No one is more amazed than I. Like I said, he IS the news group expert
in this area.


Cops also have a high divorce rate, a high cardio vascular issue rate,
and a higher insurance rate gregg. All of that adds up to absolutely
nothing gregg, since I dont have cardio vascular issue's, have never
been divorced, have never been even accused of domestic violence, and I
have a group insurnace plan and therefore dont pay a great deal for it.

Then again, I have a job.


Good for you.


The interest of the agencies in minimizing
foster abuse is played out in some news stories
as well.
Did all your foster kids have a happy Christmas Ron?
Do they give you any extra to buy them christmas presents?
LK, Parents with kids in the system actually
get a bit annoyed when the system people
PRESUME that the parents can't even buy
their kid/s Christmas presents.

I would think that Parents would get annoyed when the system won't let
them visit or give their kids presents on Christmas day or when things
disappear while the kids are in foster care. Lanette (adoption blogs)

You could not imagine how upset the parents get at this. These things
also happen at home, and I'm sure they get upset then as well.

has just done a whole series of blog posts on Christmas and Foster
children. She has been posting stuff like this since before
Thanksgiving. How they act out more, how emotions are particularly
high in them at this time of year. The types of things she does to
deal with it. How they are particularly sad because they are not with
their real parents and how they are particularly sad because they're
real parents are alone on Christmas. In fact, she discribes it as a
particularly difficult time of year for foster children, where they
are more likely to "act out" because of it.

I thought you didnt like Lanette? Whats up with that? Anyay, she is
correct, in general it is a much harder time for both bio parents and
foster parents, as well as the kids. Human nature, its a bitch.


In one post, she talks about her family members coming to visit, and
how she has to warn them ahead of time about any issues that the kids
may be having, and warn them not to interfere if she seems to be
jumping the gun in terms of dealing with issues as she's trained to
pick out warning signals before the kid actually acts out. You add
that to the fact that many of these kids are meeting lots of new
people for the first time, the natural hectic nature of the holiday
season, elevated emotional states, and all the bull**** on T.V. about
what a happy time of year this is and you have a recipie for
disaster. Then one of her commenters says that she is no longer
invited to family functions because family members don't know what to
expect with the foster children.

Thank god I dont live anywhere near my family, I have never had to
experience this particular form of bigotry.


It's amazing how this is not the case at Ron's house. More testiment
to his superiority, I guess. Of course he'd have to look beyond his
CPS numbers to see it, and you know how hard it is for him to do
that. So expect that as his only defense.

Wow, conclusions galore and not a fact to be found. Makes me all warm
inside to know that the holidays don't suddenly change your nature and
make you become a person who can actually support their belief's with facts.


I'm sure that they do gregg, but then again some can and some cant.
Some would rather spend that money on booze or drugs, or on cigarretts
and porn.


I suppose that this is a particularly difficult time of year for many
of the real parents as well. Wouldn't you think Ron?

Hmmm, well since according to both you and gregg foster parents are not
"real" parents I would have no reference upon which to base such an opinion.


Sometimes they seem to view it as a competition.
I can think of only one person that would do that gregg, and since you
are unemployed I assume that your dont win that one real often.


Again, Greg is correct Ron. Real parents often do see it as a
competition.

Some do, some dont. Its the difference between parents who actually
care about what is best for their children and those who have "other"
concerns. Guess which is which.

You read about it when you read some of other forums
such as some of the moderated Parent Support Groups where people like
you Ron would be booted from because it is where parents talk about
their feelings, successes and failures, trying to help others involved
in the system, and without being judgemental.

What a load of crap. "without being judgemental", everyone is
"judgemental" all the time. It cant be avoided, its human nature.

But since this is not
numerically measured you simply resort to Greg bashing as your only
defense of his statement. Greg is simply pointing out how real
parents feel and see things. So if you have a real arguement against
his statement please state it. It would be interesting how you could
see how you could argue such a statement to be wrong. Otherwise, put
a sock in it and admit your inability to do so.

See above.


A non-custodial parent or competitive caretaker
might for example come up with very nice
Christmas presents. Sometimes they make an
effort to buy their way into standing with the child.
Parents do that all the time gregg.


And foster parents don't?

I'm sure some do. Most I'm sure don't as they cannot afford to get into
a "present" war.



If the agency comes up with presents for kids who
would not have any it's a good idea, but doing
this when parents are ABLE and do provide presents
can become a bit of an insult to the parent.
Is it also an insult to parents who cannot gregg? After all, they are
unable to provide for them, I could see someone like yourself whining
about that aspect as well.

Ron

--
Kenneth Pangborn (AKA KRP) is a lying sack of ****!

Proof at:

www.aboutkenpangborn.com

krp wrote:
"Dan Sullivan" wrote in message
...
On Dec 30, 11:51 pm, Greegor wrote:
KW Why is Ron held to a higher standard of behavior than Greg?

LK Why shouldn't a foster parent be held
LK to a higher standard of behavior
LK then one he accuses of abuse?

RVD gregg admits to abusing, but that is beside the point.

I admit to doing things that YOU exaggerate to call abuse.
The State of Iowa determined that what you did was abuse, greg.

No exaggeration.

Right just not the WHOLE story as usual Danny boy. Was Gregg allowed to
appear? Was Gregg allowed an attorney to represent him?

Was gregg charged with a crime? No. He can get his own attorney, but
since there was no criminal proceedings I don't really see a use for one.

Was Gregg's side ever heard? No no and no.

Didnt you ever read his motion to the court kenny? He surely was heard,
as was his story, it reads like one of those 1970's joke books.

Ron

--
Kenneth Pangborn (AKA KRP) is a lying sack of ****!

Proof at:

www.aboutkenpangborn.com

LYING LITTLE PRICK DANNY SULLIVAN
"Dan Sullivan" wrote in message
...

Ron, Do you really think that spelling my name wrong
and in lower case enhances your credibility?
You've taken to spelling my name wrong, though you do use
upper case.
Why, exactly, is it acceptable for you, but unacceptable for
Ron? How do you rationalize this?
Ron should be setting a better example.
Why is Ron held to a higher standard of behavior than Greg?
Kent
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons...
for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Why shouldn't a foster parent be held to a higher standard of
behavior
then one he accuses of abuse?
gregg admits to abusing, but that is beside the point.

That is NOT what I read in Gregg's statements.
I cant help it kenny is you chose to intentionally ignore things.
After
all, given your history I'd not be surprised to find your name in a CPS
file somewhere.

No I just don't slant and mischaracterize what he's said.

He admits putting the kid in the shower.

Now THERE is the crime of the century. Putting a dirty kid in a
shower!

Just not the whole story, right, piggy boy?

And YOU, Attorney Sullivan know the WHOLE story right Danny boy?

LK wrote:
On Jan 1, 2:00 pm, Ron wrote:
LK wrote:
I apologize if this comes twice, last try said session expired.
On Dec 31 2007, 7:54 pm, Ron wrote:
Greegor wrote:
On Dec 31, 8:52 am, LK wrote:
On Dec 30, 11:51 pm, Greegor wrote:
KW Why is Ron held to a higher standard of behavior than Greg?
LK Why shouldn't a foster parent be held
LK to a higher standard of behavior
LK then one he accuses of abuse?
RVD gregg admits to abusing, but that is beside the point.
I admit to doing things that YOU exaggerate to call abuse.
No sex, no blood, no broken bones.
Don't smoke, drink liquor or do drugs.
RVD As a foster parent I am held to a higher
RVD standard, than the regular parent.
LK But there are ways around that, right?
The foster agency itself investigates accusations
of abuse in foster care, not CPS.
They're all the same to me. A babystealer is a babystealer.
BOTH agencies have a vested interest in
minimizing or playing down such abuse
as much as they can get away with.
The validity of the screening process and the
pretense that fosters are superior are proven
wrong quite regularly by foster abuse incidents.
You don't think Ron is superior?
I mean even as far as foster parents go?
Look up in this newsgroup where we had fun with
him declaring himself a "training Nazi".
(As opposed to a teacher)
Gee gregg, could you be more ignorant? That was kneals claim, not mine.
Try and get the players right, will ya?
It was part of his on-line Role Playing Game stuff.
Ron seems egotistical.
If he goes to church and they talk about
how we are all imperfect, you can bet that
Ron tells him self that doesn't apply to him.
Remember that some people are compelled
to go into law enforcement because they
get a big kick out of lording over other people.
Did you see how Cops have this huge rate
of Domestic Violence and how the police
force does everything they can to make any
accusation go away?
Domestic violence 'eh? Well, you would be the news group expert in that
area now wouldnt you gregg.
He is right you know Ron. http://www.womenandpolicing.org/violenceFS.asp
Two studies have found that at least 40% of police officer families
experience domestic violence, (1, 2) in contrast to 10% of families in
the general population.(3) A third study of older and more experienced
officers found a rate of 24% (4), indicating that domestic violence is
2-4 times more common among police families than American families in
general. A police department that has domestic violence offenders
among its ranks will not effectively serve and protect victims in the
community.5, 6, 7, 8 Moreover, when officers know of domestic violence
committed by their colleagues and seek to protect them by covering it
up, they expose the department to civil liability.7
Now he'll defend himself saying that I never provide facts, although I
just did. Huh Ron.
No one is more amazed than I. Like I said, he IS the news group expert
in this area.



Cops also have a high divorce rate, a high cardio vascular issue rate,
and a higher insurance rate gregg. All of that adds up to absolutely
nothing gregg, since I dont have cardio vascular issue's, have never
been divorced, have never been even accused of domestic violence, and I
have a group insurnace plan and therefore dont pay a great deal for it.
Then again, I have a job.
Good for you.
The interest of the agencies in minimizing
foster abuse is played out in some news stories
as well.
Did all your foster kids have a happy Christmas Ron?
Do they give you any extra to buy them christmas presents?
LK, Parents with kids in the system actually
get a bit annoyed when the system people
PRESUME that the parents can't even buy
their kid/s Christmas presents.
I would think that Parents would get annoyed when the system won't let
them visit or give their kids presents on Christmas day or when things
disappear while the kids are in foster care. Lanette (adoption blogs)
You could not imagine how upset the parents get at this. These things
also happen at home, and I'm sure they get upset then as well.

has just done a whole series of blog posts on Christmas and Foster
children. She has been posting stuff like this since before
Thanksgiving. How they act out more, how emotions are particularly
high in them at this time of year. The types of things she does to
deal with it. How they are particularly sad because they are not with
their real parents and how they are particularly sad because they're
real parents are alone on Christmas. In fact, she discribes it as a
particularly difficult time of year for foster children, where they
are more likely to "act out" because of it.
I thought you didnt like Lanette? Whats up with that?

I don't, she seems to enjoy bashing real parents a little too much.
She's full of **** as well but that's beside the point. Did I ever
tell you what she does to the kids candy after they go Trick-or-
Treating? She takes their candy away from them.

I can think of several reasons to do this that you would not argue with,
or at least a reasonable person wouldn't.

I dont read her blog, but I can understand where she might be coming
from. Bio parents are usually a pain to work with, both as a foster
parent and as a professional in the field. yet we continue to try and
assist them, even when they refuse to take our advice or suggestions.
Go figure.


Anyay, she is
correct, in general it is a much harder time for both bio parents and
foster parents, as well as the kids. Human nature, its a bitch.


You didn't state that when I asked how your foster kids Christmas
was. Didn't you say they had a great christmas?

Sure we did. I dont have any foster kids right now, we are taking a
much earned break after more than 15 years of service. Our last foster
child was a bit more than 5 months ago, and the break has been both
needed and well deserved (IMO).


In one post, she talks about her family members coming to visit, and
how she has to warn them ahead of time about any issues that the kids
may be having, and warn them not to interfere if she seems to be
jumping the gun in terms of dealing with issues as she's trained to
pick out warning signals before the kid actually acts out. You add
that to the fact that many of these kids are meeting lots of new
people for the first time, the natural hectic nature of the holiday
season, elevated emotional states, and all the bull**** on T.V. about
what a happy time of year this is and you have a recipie for
disaster. Then one of her commenters says that she is no longer
invited to family functions because family members don't know what to
expect with the foster children.
Thank god I dont live anywhere near my family, I have never had to
experience this particular form of bigotry.

Bigotry?

Yep.


It's amazing how this is not the case at Ron's house. More testiment
to his superiority, I guess. Of course he'd have to look beyond his
CPS numbers to see it, and you know how hard it is for him to do
that. So expect that as his only defense.
Wow, conclusions galore and not a fact to be found. Makes me all warm
inside to know that the holidays don't suddenly change your nature and
make you become a person who can actually support their belief's with facts.

See?

I'm sure that they do gregg, but then again some can and some cant.
Some would rather spend that money on booze or drugs, or on cigarretts
and porn.
I suppose that this is a particularly difficult time of year for many
of the real parents as well. Wouldn't you think Ron?
Hmmm, well since according to both you and gregg foster parents are not
"real" parents I would have no reference upon which to base such an opinion.


It was just a term. Why is that hard for you? Do you take issue with
my using the term "Real Parents" where you would use the more
dehumanizing term bio-parents, genetic sperm donors or something along
those lines? Do foster parents find the term "Real Parents" insulting
in some way?

I was feeling particularly bitchy that day, but in answer to your
question, yes we find the term offensive. Being a parent is more than
providing genetic material, its the whole picture of raising a child
into a useful member of society. One need not be one of the two genetic
doaner's to parent a child, one only need have the will to do it. I am
as real a parent to these kids as their bio parents are, and in most
cases far better at it.


Temporary and artificial doesn't necessarily mean unreal Ron.

I'm actually glad to see that someone on the other side of the
discussion realizes this. You are the first in my memory.

It can all be a part of the same nightmare.

Or all a part of the same fantasy. You would be amazed how many of
these kids ask me if this is how a real family is supposed to be.
Nearly 75% is my experience. Mostly the littler ones, but it means even
more when it comes from an older child.

Sometimes they seem to view it as a competition.
I can think of only one person that would do that gregg, and since you
are unemployed I assume that your dont win that one real often.
Again, Greg is correct Ron. Real parents often do see it as a
competition.
Some do, some dont. Its the difference between parents who actually
care about what is best for their children and those who have "other"
concerns. Guess which is which.

Or one who is trying to reunify with their child while having the
foster parent bashing them every step of the way, wanting to adopt
their child, .

Rarely the case. Bashing is pretty easy to recognize, and moving a
foster child from a home like that takes less than a day.

Foster parents on an adoption tract are usually very open about that,
there are even special programs within the CPS system for individuals
who want to adopt from the system. Typically children are not placed
with these types of individuals unless TPR and adoption are what the
system has firmly in mind for the kids. Even then it does not always
happen, sometimes the parents actually get their **** together in time
to prevent it, or find an attorney that knows what he/she is doing and
how to prevent these things.

A foster parent on an adoption tract is usually someone who gets more
disappointment than satisfaction.


You read about it when you read some of other forums
such as some of the moderated Parent Support Groups where people like
you Ron would be booted from because it is where parents talk about
their feelings, successes and failures, trying to help others involved
in the system, and without being judgemental.
What a load of crap. "without being judgemental", everyone is
"judgemental" all the time. It cant be avoided, its human nature.


No Ron. It's learned behavior.

Bull. Human nature. Everyone compares themselves to others,
constantly. Even as infants.

Objectivity can be learned as well.

THAT is a learned behavior.

Judgementality is generally a product of a superiority complex.

Or an inferiority complex, or just being human.

Foster parents are riding on a high horse remember?

Nice theory, but yet to be proven.

Not to mention
that people who have been screwed by the system might find it easier
to believe that someone else may have been screwed by the same
system.

Safety in numbers? Wishful thinking?

Makes it harder to pass judgement on others in similar
situations, wouldn't you think?\

Not really, its going to depend on if the individual was actually
abusing their child and didnt know it, if they were and knew it, or if
they were and refuse to acknowledge that their actions were abusive.
Its a complicated issue (here we go again), and how people react to the
options that the system provides says a lot about how they view the
system.

People find it easy to pass judgment, no matter their background.
Psychology is not my field, but I do know that its a very complicated area.

I suppose in your position it is
easier to pass judgement then not, right?

Sometimes. Its an issue of which is controlling my response, my
training or my emotions.

But that's part of the
issue I've always had with foster parents. It shows in the way they
look down on the real parents. It helps to justify what you do,
right?

I dont need the parents to justify what I do, the kids do. They are the
ones that I am providing services for, not the parents.


But since this is not
numerically measured you simply resort to Greg bashing as your only
defense of his statement. Greg is simply pointing out how real
parents feel and see things. So if you have a real arguement against
his statement please state it. It would be interesting how you could
see how you could argue such a statement to be wrong. Otherwise, put
a sock in it and admit your inability to do so.
See above.

specifically?

Ron
"Hmmm, well since according to both you and gregg foster parents are not
"real" parents I would have no reference upon which to base such an
opinion."

gregg:
"I admit to doing things that YOU exaggerate to call abuse.
No sex, no blood, no broken bones.
Don't smoke, drink liquor or do drugs."

gregg is not a parent, never has been from what I know of him. At best
he is second string, at worst he is the guy that got his S.O.'s daughter
removed because he abused her. Once again, gregg refuses to admit that
his inappropriate actions are what got Lisa removed. I didn't
exaggerate gregg's actions, I just went along with what he said he did.
The state of Iowa says that it was sexual abuse, and I agree with them.


A non-custodial parent or competitive caretaker
might for example come up with very nice
Christmas presents. Sometimes they make an
effort to buy their way into standing with the child.
Parents do that all the time gregg.
And foster parents don't?
I'm sure some do. Most I'm sure don't as they cannot afford to get into
a "present" war.


Oh well.
If the agency comes up with presents for kids who
would not have any it's a good idea, but doing
this when parents are ABLE and do provide presents
can become a bit of an insult to the parent.
Is it also an insult to parents who cannot gregg? After all, they are
unable to provide for them, I could see someone like yourself whining
about that aspect as well.

Ron
--
Kenneth Pangborn (AKA KRP) is a lying sack of ****!

Proof at:

www.aboutkenpangborn.com

LK wrote:
On Jan 1, 7:02 pm, Greegor wrote:
LK: Did you know that Ron ignored all of those news
stories that FX posted because of the Family Rights
tract that they attached to every one?


I remember discussing that with him. Once he has you labled in his
mind as a bad guy, nothing you say is relevent.

Unfortunately that is not an accurate statement. I know gregg is a bad
guy, but I continue to converse with him. Same with bobby, kneal, fern,
and doug.

The difference between those people and fx is that if their information
is proven to be false they are honest enough to change it, fx refuses
even though his data has been proven to be false several times.


Then long after the Judith Leekin fiasco was known
EVERYWHERE Ron postured as if the fiasco
had not taken place because he had refused to
track the news stories. Ironically this very same
person used the "deliberate ignorance" epithet
on OTHERS shortly thereafter.

Isn't that just a cult like form of DENIAL?

Money will do that to you.

Money. Hmmm, and of course I'll make my first million in the next 6
months, right?

Ron

--
Kenneth Pangborn (AKA KRP) is a lying sack of ****!

Proof at:

www.aboutkenpangborn.com

krp wrote:
LYING LITTLE PRICK DANNY SULLIVAN
"Dan Sullivan" wrote in message
...

Ron, Do you really think that spelling my name wrong
and in lower case enhances your credibility?
You've taken to spelling my name wrong, though you do use
upper case.
Why, exactly, is it acceptable for you, but unacceptable for
Ron? How do you rationalize this?
Ron should be setting a better example.
Why is Ron held to a higher standard of behavior than Greg?
Kent
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons...
for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Why shouldn't a foster parent be held to a higher standard of
behavior
then one he accuses of abuse?
gregg admits to abusing, but that is beside the point.
That is NOT what I read in Gregg's statements.
I cant help it kenny is you chose to intentionally ignore things.
After
all, given your history I'd not be surprised to find your name in a CPS
file somewhere.
No I just don't slant and mischaracterize what he's said.

He admits putting the kid in the shower.
Now THERE is the crime of the century. Putting a dirty kid in a
shower!
Just not the whole story, right, piggy boy?

And YOU, Attorney Sullivan know the WHOLE story right Danny boy?



Anyone who has been reading here a while does, ask around kenny. gregg
has been very free with some of the details.

Ron


--
Kenneth Pangborn (AKA KRP) is a lying sack of ****!

Proof at:

www.aboutkenpangborn.com

"Ron" wrote in message
...

Rarely the case. Bashing is pretty easy to recognize, and moving a
foster child from a home like that takes less than a day.

Foster parents on an adoption tract are usually very open about that,
there are even special programs within the CPS system for individuals
who want to adopt from the system. Typically children are not placed
with these types of individuals unless TPR and adoption are what the
system has firmly in mind for the kids. Even then it does not always
happen, sometimes the parents actually get their **** together in time
to prevent it, or find an attorney that knows what he/she is doing and
how to prevent these things.

A foster parent on an adoption tract is usually someone who gets more
disappointment than satisfaction.


Hey DIP**** who loves to correct the English of others. It is NOT "tract" it
is "TRACK" you MORON! I only call you a MORON because you and your dip****
Pal Sullivan LOVE to poke at others for any grammar or spelling Errors when
YOURS leaves absolutely NO room to place yourself on that pedestal of
perfection with the language.

In addition if we want ANY case study on ADOPTION - mean ANY case that
rips off the veneer of BULL**** surrounding it we can look at the history of
he "Baby Jessica" case and look CLOSELY at the behavior of the DeBoers. In
THAT you have your TYPICAL adoptive or foster family shown bare for what
they are. NOTHING - absolutely NOTHING is as telling as the video shot by
Katie Couric of NBC of the day of the turnover of the girl to her REAL
parents! And NO -0 Ronny the DeBoers were NEVER her "REAL PARENTS." Not even
close.

LK wrote:
"Ron" wrote in message
...

LK wrote:
On Jan 1, 2:00 pm, Ron wrote:
LK wrote:
I apologize if this comes twice, last try said session expired.
On Dec 31 2007, 7:54 pm, Ron wrote:
Greegor wrote:
On Dec 31, 8:52 am, LK wrote:
On Dec 30, 11:51 pm, Greegor wrote:
KW Why is Ron held to a higher standard of behavior than Greg?
LK Why shouldn't a foster parent be held
LK to a higher standard of behavior
LK then one he accuses of abuse?
RVD gregg admits to abusing, but that is beside the point.
I admit to doing things that YOU exaggerate to call abuse.
No sex, no blood, no broken bones.
Don't smoke, drink liquor or do drugs.
RVD As a foster parent I am held to a higher
RVD standard, than the regular parent.
LK But there are ways around that, right?
The foster agency itself investigates accusations
of abuse in foster care, not CPS.
They're all the same to me. A babystealer is a babystealer.
BOTH agencies have a vested interest in
minimizing or playing down such abuse
as much as they can get away with.
The validity of the screening process and the
pretense that fosters are superior are proven
wrong quite regularly by foster abuse incidents.
You don't think Ron is superior?
I mean even as far as foster parents go?
Look up in this newsgroup where we had fun with
him declaring himself a "training Nazi".
(As opposed to a teacher)
Gee gregg, could you be more ignorant? That was kneals claim, not
mine.
Try and get the players right, will ya?
It was part of his on-line Role Playing Game stuff.
Ron seems egotistical.
If he goes to church and they talk about
how we are all imperfect, you can bet that
Ron tells him self that doesn't apply to him.
Remember that some people are compelled
to go into law enforcement because they
get a big kick out of lording over other people.
Did you see how Cops have this huge rate
of Domestic Violence and how the police
force does everything they can to make any
accusation go away?
Domestic violence 'eh? Well, you would be the news group expert in
that
area now wouldnt you gregg.
He is right you know Ron.
http://www.womenandpolicing.org/violenceFS.asp
Two studies have found that at least 40% of police officer families
experience domestic violence, (1, 2) in contrast to 10% of families in
the general population.(3) A third study of older and more experienced
officers found a rate of 24% (4), indicating that domestic violence is
2-4 times more common among police families than American families in
general. A police department that has domestic violence offenders
among its ranks will not effectively serve and protect victims in the
community.5, 6, 7, 8 Moreover, when officers know of domestic violence
committed by their colleagues and seek to protect them by covering it
up, they expose the department to civil liability.7
Now he'll defend himself saying that I never provide facts, although I
just did. Huh Ron.
No one is more amazed than I. Like I said, he IS the news group expert
in this area.



Cops also have a high divorce rate, a high cardio vascular issue rate,
and a higher insurance rate gregg. All of that adds up to absolutely
nothing gregg, since I dont have cardio vascular issue's, have never
been divorced, have never been even accused of domestic violence, and
I
have a group insurnace plan and therefore dont pay a great deal for
it.
Then again, I have a job.
Good for you.
The interest of the agencies in minimizing
foster abuse is played out in some news stories
as well.
Did all your foster kids have a happy Christmas Ron?
Do they give you any extra to buy them christmas presents?
LK, Parents with kids in the system actually
get a bit annoyed when the system people
PRESUME that the parents can't even buy
their kid/s Christmas presents.
I would think that Parents would get annoyed when the system won't let
them visit or give their kids presents on Christmas day or when things
disappear while the kids are in foster care. Lanette (adoption blogs)
You could not imagine how upset the parents get at this. These things
also happen at home, and I'm sure they get upset then as well.

has just done a whole series of blog posts on Christmas and Foster
children. She has been posting stuff like this since before
Thanksgiving. How they act out more, how emotions are particularly
high in them at this time of year. The types of things she does to
deal with it. How they are particularly sad because they are not with
their real parents and how they are particularly sad because they're
real parents are alone on Christmas. In fact, she discribes it as a
particularly difficult time of year for foster children, where they
are more likely to "act out" because of it.
I thought you didnt like Lanette? Whats up with that?
I don't, she seems to enjoy bashing real parents a little too much.
She's full of **** as well but that's beside the point. Did I ever
tell you what she does to the kids candy after they go Trick-or-
Treating? She takes their candy away from them.
I can think of several reasons to do this that you would not argue with,
or at least a reasonable person wouldn't.

I dont read her blog, but I can understand where she might be coming
from.

You don't know what your missing.

Bio parents are usually a pain to work with, both as a foster
parent and as a professional in the field. yet we continue to try and
assist them, even when they refuse to take our advice or suggestions.
Go figure.


Well if they're such a ****ing problem, perhaps you shouldn't be harboring
their children for the state. It's all part of your job right?

Nope, its about the kids. Been trying to tell you people that for some
time now, and somehow it keeps getting missed.


Anyay, she is
correct, in general it is a much harder time for both bio parents and
foster parents, as well as the kids. Human nature, its a bitch.


You didn't state that when I asked how your foster kids Christmas
was. Didn't you say they had a great christmas?
Sure we did. I dont have any foster kids right now,

OMG Ron! Whatever are those poor helpless children going to do without you?

we are taking a
much earned break after more than 15 years of service. Our last foster
child was a bit more than 5 months ago, and the break has been both
needed and well deserved (IMO).


How did you get the state to take them back?

The state didnt, their parents did.


In one post, she talks about her family members coming to visit, and
how she has to warn them ahead of time about any issues that the kids
may be having, and warn them not to interfere if she seems to be
jumping the gun in terms of dealing with issues as she's trained to
pick out warning signals before the kid actually acts out. You add
that to the fact that many of these kids are meeting lots of new
people for the first time, the natural hectic nature of the holiday
season, elevated emotional states, and all the bull**** on T.V. about
what a happy time of year this is and you have a recipie for
disaster. Then one of her commenters says that she is no longer
invited to family functions because family members don't know what to
expect with the foster children.
Thank god I dont live anywhere near my family, I have never had to
experience this particular form of bigotry.

Bigotry?
Yep.

It's amazing how this is not the case at Ron's house. More testiment
to his superiority, I guess. Of course he'd have to look beyond his
CPS numbers to see it, and you know how hard it is for him to do
that. So expect that as his only defense.
Wow, conclusions galore and not a fact to be found. Makes me all warm
inside to know that the holidays don't suddenly change your nature and
make you become a person who can actually support their belief's with
facts.

See?
I'm sure that they do gregg, but then again some can and some cant.
Some would rather spend that money on booze or drugs, or on cigarretts
and porn.
I suppose that this is a particularly difficult time of year for many
of the real parents as well. Wouldn't you think Ron?
Hmmm, well since according to both you and gregg foster parents are not
"real" parents I would have no reference upon which to base such an
opinion.


It was just a term. Why is that hard for you? Do you take issue with
my using the term "Real Parents" where you would use the more
dehumanizing term bio-parents, genetic sperm donors or something along
those lines? Do foster parents find the term "Real Parents" insulting
in some way?
I was feeling particularly bitchy that day,

At me?

At the world in general.


but in answer to your
question, yes we find the term offensive.

Imagine that. You do have to admit that the word "real" is somewhat,
philosophically speaking, ambiguous. I could see where some who are easilly
offended might take it the wrong way, I could see it even more so when in
reference to adoptive parents. I also know, from experience, it's a term
used quite often by foster children.

Yes, quite. Innocently most often, but still common. The fact that we
are real parents as well gets buried in their minds. Adults should know
better, but not those here.


Being a parent is more than
providing genetic material, its the whole picture of raising a child
into a useful member of society.

True. But you do have to admit that genetics does have a little to do with
it, don't you Ron?

Not really. The animal kingdom is full of examples of creatures that do
not parent their young, but are still considered their "parents".
Nature is also full of examples where the child is parented by someone
other than their biological parents and do just fine.

If we were talking about the natural human bond between
a child and the mother who had the child in her body for nine months, for
example, are you going to claim that this isn't really a factor?

"natural human bond". Nice, theory.

One need not be one of the two genetic
doaner's to parent a child, one only need have the will to do it. I am
as real a parent to these kids as their bio parents are, and in most
cases far better at it.


Come on Ron. I'm not saying at all that a child can't bond with an adoptive
parent and I'm not saying that an adoptive parent couldn't bond with and
love the child. There can be something very real there either way. If you
are willing to adopt a child, make a life long commitment to considering
that child your family member, be a grandparent to their children, a support
system for them later in life if needed, on and on and on. Then fine. You
are a real parent to that child. As real as any other.

However, when we're talking about foster parents, that is something that is
lacking, isn't it? Foster parents are temporary. Families are permanant.

Families are supposed to be permanent, but sometimes they are not. Its
a sad fact of life, but there you are.

In the foster situation, bonds are broken, often, more then once. Other
people have control of the child, not the foster parents. Families are
usually somewhat more stable and long term. Foster children develope
attatchment disorders and have trouble forming healthy relationships because
they lack the social skills and this goes all the way into adulthood. Thus
you have an increase in the rate of foster children and the homeless
population, for example.
http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Soc...rs/firdion.pdf

Does your link explain how a child living with their bio parent can come
down with attachment disorders? Or is that the fault of the system as well?


So although you are real in one meaning of the word, you are not in another.
If, for example, one of your foster children ages out of the system, and is
booted out on his ass, are you going to take on that parenting
responsibility then?

Kindly review your question, it lacks some logical points.

Are you going to put the kid through college?

No, and most parents dont anyway. Bio or otherwise.

If the
kid was 2 years old when he lived with you for six months, are you really
going to make that much of a difference in his life later on?

Depends, did they survive the experience? If so then I'd be of the
opinion that I have had a significant impact on their life.

How real will
you be when the same kid is 18 or 20? Are you going to let them all stay
with you until they're ready to move out on their own as a healthy,
productive citizen of the United States or are you going to just make room
for the next kid? If you had the kid when he was 2 and the system boots him
out when he's 18, are you going to step back in?

Again your point is missing some logic. Kindly review.

The difference is there is
a support system in place later in life in a real family. And that's real
too. Not just for a year or two until they go to the next foster home.
Family is a life long committment Ron. That's real. A lot of foster
children don't have that, wouldn't you agree?

I would be foolish to disagree. No one, not even I, have ever said that
foster care is the ideal situation. It IS better than nothing, and it
is often better than home. But even bio families have their limits
Pete, what they can do and what they cant. We have more limits as
foster parents, which is just as it should be.

You may be the greatest thing
for some of these kids for the short term when they would have otherwise
suffered some horrible act of abuse or neglect. And you may very well be a
great parent to any who you have adopted permanantly. But you aren't
nothing compaired to a real family for a foster child.

I aint nothing. Is that what you meant to say?

Not being a foster parent yourself I can see how you would come to such
a conclusion, false though it may be.


Temporary and artificial doesn't necessarily mean unreal Ron.
I'm actually glad to see that someone on the other side of the
discussion realizes this. You are the first in my memory.


Trying to keep it real Ron.

No one is more amazed than I.


It can all be a part of the same nightmare.
Or all a part of the same fantasy. You would be amazed how many of
these kids ask me if this is how a real family is supposed to be.
Nearly 75% is my experience. Mostly the littler ones, but it means even
more when it comes from an older child.

Sometimes they seem to view it as a competition.
I can think of only one person that would do that gregg, and since you
are unemployed I assume that your dont win that one real often.
Again, Greg is correct Ron. Real parents often do see it as a
competition.
Some do, some dont. Its the difference between parents who actually
care about what is best for their children and those who have "other"
concerns. Guess which is which.

Or one who is trying to reunify with their child while having the
foster parent bashing them every step of the way, wanting to adopt
their child, .
Rarely the case. Bashing is pretty easy to recognize, and moving a
foster child from a home like that takes less than a day.

Foster parents on an adoption tract are usually very open about that,
there are even special programs within the CPS system for individuals
who want to adopt from the system. Typically children are not placed
with these types of individuals unless TPR and adoption are what the
system has firmly in mind for the kids. Even then it does not always
happen, sometimes the parents actually get their **** together in time
to prevent it, or find an attorney that knows what he/she is doing and
how to prevent these things.

A foster parent on an adoption tract is usually someone who gets more
disappointment than satisfaction.

You read about it when you read some of other forums
such as some of the moderated Parent Support Groups where people like
you Ron would be booted from because it is where parents talk about
their feelings, successes and failures, trying to help others involved
in the system, and without being judgemental.
What a load of crap. "without being judgemental", everyone is
"judgemental" all the time. It cant be avoided, its human nature.

No Ron. It's learned behavior.
Bull. Human nature. Everyone compares themselves to others,
constantly. Even as infants.

They're taught to do that.

Opinion. The facts do not support your belief.


Objectivity can be learned as well.
THAT is a learned behavior.

Then learn it.

Same to you.

Judgementality is generally a product of a superiority complex.
Or an inferiority complex, or just being human.

Foster parents are riding on a high horse remember?
Nice theory, but yet to be proven.

Oh? Look at yourself, mister "I always win any argument against my precious
CPS." Like you aren't riding on a high horse. Even if your anecdotal, your
no different then any other foster parent I've ever talked to.

Seems that you have put us all into the same category then, since I am
obviously the odd man out to anyone who takes the time to look.

IOW, of the 200,000+ foster parents in this country, I am the only one
active here. That alone takes me from your "usual" to my "unique".


Not to mention
that people who have been screwed by the system might find it easier
to believe that someone else may have been screwed by the same
system.
Safety in numbers? Wishful thinking?

Is that why your foster parent associations and support groups exist?

Nope. Training, since the funding from the government for such ventures
has gone the way of the winds.

Makes it harder to pass judgement on others in similar
situations, wouldn't you think?\
Not really, its going to depend on if the individual was actually abusing
their child and didnt know it, if they were and knew it, or if they were
and refuse to acknowledge that their actions were abusive. Its a
complicated issue (here we go again), and how people react to the options
that the system provides says a lot about how they view the system.

People find it easy to pass judgment, no matter their background.

Some just don't care about you enough to pass judgement Ron. Perhaps they
have enough of their own problems.

Could be, but then again I would have to care about their opinions for
their judgment to have any meaning.

Psychology is not my field, but I do know that its a very complicated
area.

Psychology is nothing but a never ending quest to close the box on the human
mind.

It's all bull**** Ron. Every time you turn around there is some new
discovery.

IOW its a very complicated area. Wow, I think I said that before.

I suppose in your position it is
easier to pass judgement then not, right?
Sometimes. Its an issue of which is controlling my response, my training
or my emotions.


And which one wins?

Its an issue of which is controlling my response, my training or my
emotions.


But that's part of the
issue I've always had with foster parents. It shows in the way they
look down on the real parents. It helps to justify what you do,
right?
I dont need the parents to justify what I do, the kids do. They are the
ones that I am providing services for, not the parents.


You misunderstood my meaning. I meant if the act of looking down on the
parents helps to justify what you do?

Oh no, I understood your meaning. Clearly. My response remains the same.


But since this is not
numerically measured you simply resort to Greg bashing as your only
defense of his statement. Greg is simply pointing out how real
parents feel and see things. So if you have a real arguement against
his statement please state it. It would be interesting how you could
see how you could argue such a statement to be wrong. Otherwise, put
a sock in it and admit your inability to do so.
See above.

specifically?
Ron
"Hmmm, well since according to both you and gregg foster parents are not
"real" parents I would have no reference upon which to base such an
opinion."

gregg:
"I admit to doing things that YOU exaggerate to call abuse.
No sex, no blood, no broken bones.
Don't smoke, drink liquor or do drugs."

gregg is not a parent, never has been from what I know of him. At best he
is second string, at worst he is the guy that got his S.O.'s daughter
removed because he abused her. Once again, gregg refuses to admit that
his inappropriate actions are what got Lisa removed. I didn't exaggerate
gregg's actions, I just went along with what he said he did. The state of
Iowa says that it was sexual abuse, and I agree with them.


Specific enough for you?

Ron
--
Kenneth Pangborn (AKA KRP) is a lying sack of ****!

Proof at:

www.aboutkenpangborn.com

krp wrote:
"Ron" wrote in message
...

Rarely the case. Bashing is pretty easy to recognize, and moving a
foster child from a home like that takes less than a day.

Foster parents on an adoption tract are usually very open about that,
there are even special programs within the CPS system for individuals
who want to adopt from the system. Typically children are not placed
with these types of individuals unless TPR and adoption are what the
system has firmly in mind for the kids. Even then it does not always
happen, sometimes the parents actually get their **** together in time
to prevent it, or find an attorney that knows what he/she is doing and
how to prevent these things.

A foster parent on an adoption tract is usually someone who gets more
disappointment than satisfaction.


Hey DIP**** who loves to correct the English of others. It is NOT "tract" it
is "TRACK" you MORON! I only call you a MORON because you and your dip****

Uhhh kenny, since you have no idea what I was trying to say, where I am
coming from, or even where your trying to go with this tirade, why dont
you climb back under your rock with the rest of the slugs? Do the world
a favor, shoot yourself in the head (but you would most likely screw
that up as well).

Your such a sad, pathetic, ignorant little man that I should take pity
on you. But your also such an unmitigated ass that its impossible to
do. Did Shaftsbury sell you a degree in "Stupid" as well?

Ron

--
Kenneth Pangborn (AKA KRP) is a lying sack of ****!

Proof at:

www.aboutkenpangborn.com