DOUBLE STANDARD

In regard to article attached below

0:- wrote:
Greegor wrote:
The kid is probably a manipulative liar.
But then, isn't that why his bio family
was torn up in the first place by CPS?

What did you read in the article that would suggest that? I saw
something quite different.

Do tell!

When he did this crap to his bio family
the family was torn up by CPS, which
actually preaches that "KIDS DON'T LIE".

No, actually they don't preach any such thing.

It's in the court records.

What they do know how to do is ask questions
so children have a difficult time lying.

Who at CPS ""knows this""?
Jimmy Carter welfare to work hires?

In fact, it's a skill taught to people
in mental health work. 0:-

Number of those involved in our CPS case? 0

One if you count the agency prostitute who
would have done my psych eval.

Greg wrote
Typically even when a kid tells this
kind of manipulative LIES at home
AND in Foster care, the system lacks
the honesty or brains to consider that
the kid was telling lies in BOTH SITUATIONS.

Kane wrote
Nope. They know he's lying. That's part of the problem.
Why do you think kids develop a strong tendency to lie, Greg?

Maybe they're in training to be CPS caseworkers?
I've never seen such shameless liars.

Because mommy didn't buy him an X-box?
( recent case )


Greg wrote
Even kids living with their parents who are
DIAGNOSED as pathological liars are
""believed"" by CPS agencies when they
make false accusations of bio parents.

Kane wrote
No they aren't. They are required to investigate
until they know one way or the other.
How would they "know" the child is lying?

Didn't you just contradict yourself there?
("until they know" vs. "how would they "know")

They have all of the expertise of a retarded monkey.
You act like they're all geniuses and experts.


Greg wrote
As the double standards fade, Fosters
will experience just PART of the true
joys that bio parents have experienced with
CPS agencies for years.

Kane wrote
Nope. Foster's have it far worse, Greg. Bios can get away with all kinds
of mistreatment of children that fall just inside the line of "legally
acceptable."
Fosters are held to a far more narrow set of things they can and cannot do.

Greg wrote
In most states, child abuse in Foster contracter
homes

Kane wrote
They are volunteers. The contract is about how they will perform their
duties as volunteers, Greg.

It's still a contract and they get $380 per kid per month in Florida.

Greg wrote
is NOT investigated by CPS at all,
but by the FOSTER agency. Double standard?

Kane wrote
Some old lie. How is it foster parent abuses are caught then? And we see
the public disclosure of them? They are even counted in federal
databases, Greg.

Because given so much ROPE many abusive fosters
go too far and PARENTS raise hell and the dam bursts.

Greg wrote
Why isn't this investigated in exactly the
same way by exactly the same agency?

Kane wrote
Good question.
You would prove to us there is some malevolent reason, right?
Go ahead. I can hardly wait for your "proof."

I don't feel the burden of proof is on me here.

"Why isn't this investigated in exactly the
same way by exactly the same agency?"

That the double standard EXISTS proves
violation of "equal protection of law".

Assigning malevolence or intent is
not even necessary.





http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...l=orl-news-col

Couple who helped kids deserve better
Lauren Ritchie COMMENTARY

June 28, 2006
On Sunday, this column took a look at an unusual foster home for
children -- ones with emotional and mental problems.

For nine years, Tammy and Mel Geiger operated the Leesburg home, but
they surrendered their license in February amid an abuse investigation
that seemed to be spiraling out of control and headed for revocation.

Now, the couple are trying to have their license reinstated and clear
their names, tarnished by allegations from two seriously disturbed
youngsters.

What happened is an illustration of bureaucracy and its power. But the
story could end on an upbeat note -- if the state Department of
Children & Families displays common-sense judgment.

Here's what happened:

The Geigers had a young boy in their care who came to them after he set
his father and stepmother's bed afire at the age of 6. The reason: He
didn't get the PlayStation 2 he wanted for Christmas.

Then, a malnourished 17-year-old boy who had been tortured his whole
life was placed with the Geigers in March 2005. The teen weighed 58
pounds and wore clothing in boys size 8. He had been diagnosed as
having post-traumatic stress syndrome and had been involuntarily
committed to a mental hospital just before he arrived.

That teenager was angry at being separated from his brother and wanted
to be placed in a regular foster home with him. He refused to
participate in therapy and generally made everybody miserable by
deliberately disobeying house rules and turning meals into a
battleground. He told the Geigers he'd keep it up until someone let him
out of the program.

On Dec. 2, the teen came home from an appointment with a Gainesville
psychologist and announced that the doctor was going to have him placed
with his brother. He boasted that he'd told the psychologist Tammy
Geiger sat on him to restrain him.

A week later, the teen and the younger boy were taken away from the
Geigers.

Among the accusations, according to a DCF summary:

Tammy made a 7-year-old girl scrub a wall for three days because she
wasn't doing it right.

Tammy referred to two black girls in the foster home using a racial
slur and remarked that "you could give them a bath and five minutes
later, they smelled."

The teen was "restricted to his room" during evening hours with an
alarm above his door.

Tammy threatened to lock the teen in his room when he tried to share
food with another young man living in the home.

Mel "thumped" the younger boy on the head.

And -- the most serious complaint -- Tammy forced both boys to lay on
their stomachs on the floor with their hands in the air while she sat
on them.

The DCF investigation states that there was a "forensic interview,"
which means someone from the Child Protection Team talked to the boys,
and that it "supported the allegations."

The summary does not indicate whether abuse investigators sought
information from any other source, and DCF ignored requests to say what
-- if anything further -- was done.

What is written in the summary hardly qualifies as an "investigation."
It is more like a casual glance.

But conclusions were drawn from this sloppy piece of work that have
caused turmoil and heartache in the home of a couple devoted to helping
the most needy of children. They deserve better.

For example, had DCF checked, its "investigators" would have found that
the allegations involving the girl and the racial slurs could not have
been true.

No girls of any color were living in the Geiger home at any time when
the two boys were there.

On Friday, we'll take a look at the more serious allegations and how
DCF handled those.

Greegor wrote:
In regard to article attached below

0:- wrote:
Greegor wrote:
The kid is probably a manipulative liar.
But then, isn't that why his bio family
was torn up in the first place by CPS?
What did you read in the article that would suggest that? I saw
something quite different.

Do tell!

So you aren't willing to support your claim. As usual. Do tell.

When he did this crap to his bio family
the family was torn up by CPS, which
actually preaches that "KIDS DON'T LIE".
No, actually they don't preach any such thing.

It's in the court records.

That CPS preaches that Kids Don't Lie? Please cite the court record for
us.

What they do know how to do is ask questions
so children have a difficult time lying.

Who at CPS ""knows this""?
Jimmy Carter welfare to work hires?

MSW with training child interviewing. And psychologists that contract to
CPS in abuse cases where the child's testimony is required.

In fact, it's a skill taught to people
in mental health work. 0:-

Number of those involved in our CPS case? 0

You should complain. 0:-

One if you count the agency prostitute who
would have done my psych eval.

Had you allowed it. They don't lie as a rule, Greg.

Greg wrote
Typically even when a kid tells this
kind of manipulative LIES at home
AND in Foster care, the system lacks
the honesty or brains to consider that
the kid was telling lies in BOTH SITUATIONS.

Kane wrote
Nope. They know he's lying. That's part of the problem.
Why do you think kids develop a strong tendency to lie, Greg?

Maybe they're in training to be CPS caseworkers?
I've never seen such shameless liars.

Until you came along.

Because mommy didn't buy him an X-box?
( recent case )

So? You trying this case ahead of time, as I predicted you would? The
family is awaiting results, why aren't you?

Greg wrote
Even kids living with their parents who are
DIAGNOSED as pathological liars are
""believed"" by CPS agencies when they
make false accusations of bio parents.

Kane wrote
No they aren't. They are required to investigate
until they know one way or the other.
How would they "know" the child is lying?

Didn't you just contradict yourself there?
("until they know" vs. "how would they "know")

Nope. They seek corroborating evidence, as they are supposed to.

They have all of the expertise of a retarded monkey.

No they don't.

You act like they're all geniuses and experts.

No I don't.

Greg wrote
As the double standards fade, Fosters
will experience just PART of the true
joys that bio parents have experienced with
CPS agencies for years.

Kane wrote
Nope. Foster's have it far worse, Greg. Bios can get away with all kinds
of mistreatment of children that fall just inside the line of "legally
acceptable."
Fosters are held to a far more narrow set of things they can and cannot do.

Greg wrote
In most states, child abuse in Foster contracter
homes

Kane wrote
They are volunteers. The contract is about how they will perform their
duties as volunteers, Greg.

It's still a contract and they get $380 per kid per month in Florida.

That's barely the UDSA poverty level for child rearing, Greg. Florida is
kind of expensive.

It's calculated to run out about 10% short of reality, Greg. But you
sell that to all those poor 'unused' certified foster parents that think
it's big bucks.

Greg wrote
is NOT investigated by CPS at all,
but by the FOSTER agency. Double standard?

Kane wrote
Some old lie. How is it foster parent abuses are caught then? And we see
the public disclosure of them? They are even counted in federal
databases, Greg.

Because given so much ROPE many abusive fosters
go too far and PARENTS raise hell and the dam bursts.

Sure Greg.

Here's a little comparison for you.

Which of the following requirements of foster parents do bio parents
HAVE TO PERFORM BY CONTRACT AND STATE LAW?

- Present the child on demand at least once every 30 days to the
authorities.

- Allow 24/7 unannounced access to the child on demand of a caseworker,
with NO cause having to be stated.

- Present the child at rehabilitative services (where mandated reporters
are the staff).

- Present the child for relatives to visit on a regular basis. Usually
weekly and as much as twice weekly.

- Inform the state if they are taking their child out of state, even for
a daytrip.

- May NOT leave the state or the country with the child without the
permission of the state.

- Present their child to a doctor on a regular scheduled basis, and to a
dentist as well.

- Must present the child at a CPS office is ordered to.

So, which, Greg?

Are all your neighbors clients?

Regular bio families are not required to ONE of those things. Not ONE.

Foster families are required to do ALL AND MORE.

Even appear in court if so ordered.

So which would be more likely to be caught abusing, Greg, the regular
run of the mill family that hasn't run afoul of CPS yet, or Foster parents?

Greg wrote
Why isn't this investigated in exactly the
same way by exactly the same agency?

Kane wrote
Good question.
You would prove to us there is some malevolent reason, right?
Go ahead. I can hardly wait for your "proof."

I don't feel the burden of proof is on me here.

Then you aren't serious about your question, "Why isn't this
investigated in exactly the same way by exactly the same agency?"

We don't know your question is based on fact..that it's NOT.

But you asked why? I don't know why. Do you?

"Why isn't this investigated in exactly the
same way by exactly the same agency?"

That the double standard EXISTS proves
violation of "equal protection of law".

What double standard?

Assigning malevolence or intent is
not even necessary.

But you do it anyway?

You mean "double standard" as a kindly helpful claim, do you?

Let's go through and see what your comments relate to from the article.
Shall we?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...l=orl-news-col

Couple who helped kids deserve better
Lauren Ritchie COMMENTARY

June 28, 2006
On Sunday, this column took a look at an unusual foster home for
children -- ones with emotional and mental problems.

Which is the majority of foster homes.

For nine years, Tammy and Mel Geiger operated the Leesburg home,

They are NOT a regular foster family, to start with, Greg. This is just
what YOU claim about foster's. This is a paid contractor. They do not
get a foster subsidy. They get a contract fee by beds filled.

It is considerably higher, usually, than foster subsidies. Why don't you
research? You'd know these things if you didn't spend all your time
looking under beds for boogymen.

but
they surrendered their license in February amid an abuse investigation
that seemed to be spiraling out of control and headed for revocation.

"License" is the giveaway. Foster parents don't have licenses. They have
just their volunteer contracts. They are NOT employees or for profit
contractors.

Folks who have "homes" set up, with special names (required usually for
their business license as well), "the Leesburg home" and "operated."

"Foster parents" don't "operate" homes.

Now, the couple are trying to have their license reinstated and clear
their names, tarnished by allegations from two seriously disturbed
youngsters.

Sure can happen. Ask any long time foster parent. It's rare they are NOT
falsely accused, Greg. Trainers usually make them aware of this first
thing in the classes. And those are often foster parents co-TEACHING the
class.

What happened is an illustration of bureaucracy and its power.

Oh, no bias here, is there, Greg? This story wouldn't have appeal for
you based on that sentence, would it, Greg?

I loved the change in Subject you injected, "DOUBLE STANDARD." You sure
have that, alright.

But the
story could end on an upbeat note -- if the state Department of
Children & Families displays common-sense judgment.

In other words, the work is not all done. They could be reinstated OR it
could be found that they did in fact do some of the accused things.

Let me explain about mentally ill kids...which is what the code words,
"emotionally distrubed" means.

They can't get the cast of characters straight. They often do make the
same kinds of mistakes in relating incidents THAT NORMAL ADULTS DO, YOU
SILLY LITTLE MISTAKE MAKING PUTZ.

They confuse easily, without any harmful intent at all. Just survival
traits taught them by their own bio parents. Very MUCH what this teen
was about it appears.

Here's what happened:

The Geigers had a young boy in their care who came to them after he set
his father and stepmother's bed afire at the age of 6. The reason: He
didn't get the PlayStation 2 he wanted for Christmas.

Interesting they would mention this. He is NOT part of the case, at all.
Could it have been for the infamous "Pathos" you like to fling about
like you had an education?

Then, a malnourished 17-year-old boy who had been tortured his whole
life was placed with the Geigers in March 2005. The teen weighed 58
pounds and wore clothing in boys size 8. He had been diagnosed as
having post-traumatic stress syndrome and had been involuntarily
committed to a mental hospital just before he arrived.

So if he does crazy things, says crazy things, is confused, you are
going to cast him in the role of evil liar, right Greg? You sure got a
soft spot for children, Boy.

That teenager was angry at being separated from his brother and wanted
to be placed in a regular foster home with him. He refused to
participate in therapy and generally made everybody miserable by
deliberately disobeying house rules and turning meals into a
battleground. He told the Geigers he'd keep it up until someone let him
out of the program.

Not a thing new in that. Nothing. I had kids threaten me with just such
things and threats to make false allegations against me. I used to walk
to the phone dial the worker, and hand it to them and invite them to go
ahead. I was one of the most kindly of treatment coordinators, and
everyone knew it. Kids that graduated from the program came back for
years to visit and thank me, even after I was gone...and some where just
like this boy, at the beginning.

On Dec. 2, the teen came home from an appointment with a Gainesville
psychologist and announced that the doctor was going to have him placed
with his brother. He boasted that he'd told the psychologist Tammy
Geiger sat on him to restrain him.

Interesting how a story looks according the words used to describe it,
isn't it Greg?

A week later, the teen and the younger boy were taken away from the
Geigers.

Among the accusations, according to a DCF summary:

Tammy made a 7-year-old girl scrub a wall for three days because she
wasn't doing it right.

Tammy referred to two black girls in the foster home using a racial
slur and remarked that "you could give them a bath and five minutes
later, they smelled."

The teen was "restricted to his room" during evening hours with an
alarm above his door.

That's not the least odd if he was a threat to himself or others. The
firesetter likely had one as well. Homes that take firesetters even have
difficulty getting fire insurance, and CPS routinely does NOT pay it for
them. They must pay it out of their fee for services.

Tammy threatened to lock the teen in his room when he tried to share
food with another young man living in the home.

Do we know what the conditions were for the other child? Allergies,
diabetic, what?

Mel "thumped" the younger boy on the head.

There is such a thing as self defense.

And -- the most serious complaint -- Tammy forced both boys to lay on
their stomachs on the floor with their hands in the air while she sat
on them.

The DCF investigation states that there was a "forensic interview,"
which means someone from the Child Protection Team talked to the boys,
and that it "supported the allegations."

The summary does not indicate whether abuse investigators sought
information from any other source, and DCF ignored requests to say what
-- if anything further -- was done.

In other words, the case was still going on, the contractors could have
sued the worker and the state for discussing the case and the reporter
was a little ****ed they wouldn't.

What is written in the summary hardly qualifies as an "investigation."
It is more like a casual glance.

Oh. And how did the author come by this knowledge? Knowledge that would
risk the invoking of penalties by the federal government for breach of
patient/client privacy?

I know a liar when I see one.

But conclusions were drawn from this sloppy piece of work that have
caused turmoil and heartache in the home of a couple devoted to helping
the most needy of children. They deserve better.

Suddenly it's a "sloppy piece of work," when in fact it had to conceal
just about everything not to violate privacy laws.

Even reporters pull the same tricks you anti CPS lying little ****heads
pull, eh?

For example, had DCF checked, its "investigators" would have found that
the allegations involving the girl and the racial slurs could not have
been true.

No girls of any color were living in the Geiger home at any time when
the two boys were there.

And the reporter knows this how?

On Friday, we'll take a look at the more serious allegations and how
DCF handled those.

In other words, Greg, this is, as the author says, a column. And
labelled "Commentary."

So much of it is opinions.

The columnist lists her email address.

Why don't you give her a note and ask how she comes by all this
information, if true, is illegal for others to share with her?

Or does she not know the children's names?

You'll fall for anything, won't you, Greg.

0:-







--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

Greg wrote
They have all of the expertise of a retarded monkey.

Kane wrote
No they don't.

Alas, You're right, I was optimistic about caseworkers.

Greegor wrote:
Greg wrote
They have all of the expertise of a retarded monkey.

Kane wrote
No they don't.

Alas, You're right, I was optimistic about caseworkers.

You've been working toward this for some time, Greg; faking someone
else's post by snippage.

Pretty sad, but I've watched many like you, after losing repeatedly in
debate, revert this kind of childish nonsense.

Too stupid and lazy to gather the material for debate, too stupid and
lazy to learn how to formulate a decent argument, this is all you have
left.

Of course, there is the little matter of being wrong.

Nothing makes it tougher to argue than being wrong.

So maybe you should be forgiven for schoolboy antics, eh?

0:-


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)