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Example of teaching religion in the schools



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 20th 04, 01:02 AM
Claire Petersky
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Default Example of teaching religion in the schools

My younger daughter's class is reading The Secret Garden. As a way to
learn more about the background of the story, the class has been divided
up to do reports and presentations on traditional English and Indian
culture. For example, one small group is doing the food of India, and
another, the food of England. Another group is doing clothing of each
country, and so on.

My daughter's group decided to do the religion of England. My daughter is
being raised Jewish; another girl, Corrie in her group is Mormon; and the
other girl, Kimberly, is nominally Christian but her family is nonpracting
and has had no religious education. (All names changed to protect..[etc.])

They made a display board. Corrie was nominated as the one with the most
familiarity with Christian doctrine, so she was the one to research what
Anglican Church's beliefs are. My daughter is fond of history, so she
wrote a brief history of the church. Kimberly did the facts and figures
page, like how many members there are and so on. My daughter is the best
typist, so she typed up everyone's hand-written notes. Downside: being
unfamiliar with Christian terminology and struggling with Corrie's bad
hand-writing, there were some funny transcriptions: "solution" for
"salvation" for example. (I helped with fixing these.) These typed-up
reports were then glued to the board along with a picture of Queen
Elizabeth and some bishops.

They also made a lego cathedral. They found a floor plan in an article in
the World Book encyclopedia. We have lots of police officers and
firefighters and similar from a long-ago purchase of the community helper
set, so they were largely populating the pews, along with a few Jedi
knights and other oddballs from other lego sets accumulated over the
years. It's quite a motley congregation. The cathedral has several towers,
a priest in white, and a huge crucifix behind him. ("Crucifix" was another
new vocabulary word for my daughter.)

Finally, today they are putting on a skit for the class regarding the
historic split with the Catholic Church. My daughter is King Henry the
Eighth, Corrie plays a couple of queens, and Kimberly plays the pope. A
lot of effort went into the costumes, from historical accuracy to having
nice colors and fabrics.

I was very happy with the multitude of learning styles that this effort
engaged. I got the impression that they had a great deal of flexibility on
how to present what they learned. They used nearly every skill, from
fine-motor dexterity in lego manipulation and sewing skills, to three
dimensional visualization, to dramatic interpretation of a story, to
research on the internet and through books and encyclopedias.

I know many people who are very keen in keeping religion out of the
schools, and generally, I'm one of them. But to my mind, there's a big
difference between religion being taught as state-sponsored propaganda,
and religion being taught as comparative religion, or within a cultural or
historical context, as was the case in what these kids did.

I'm curious as to what your reaction is to this, especially if you are of
the No Religion in the School mindset. I'm especially interested in your
reaction if you are English or Episcopalian.

Warm Regards,

Claire

=====
Claire Petersky )
Home of the meditative cyclist: http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/

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  #2  
Old October 20th 04, 01:17 AM
Iowacookiemom
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I was very happy with the multitude of learning styles that this effort
engaged. I got the impression that they had a great deal of flexibility on
how to present what they learned.


Me too. In fact, what impresses me most about your description is not the
religion aspect, but the fact that they did this kind of experience-based,
project-oriented project at all. Maybe it's just Texas & Iowa, but Henry's
elementary schools (and now middle school too) have been so standardized-test
driven (especially since the No Child Left Behind Act was passed) that there's
no time for things like this. Instead, they work on test prep worksheets and
non-curricular time learning test-taking strategies.

Sigh.

Did anyone hear last week's "This American Life" about the teacher in Chicago
who is thinking about quitting? You can probably still hear it through the NPR
website. It was heartbreaking.

But back to your question:

I know many people who are very keen in keeping religion out of the
schools, and generally, I'm one of them.


Me too.

But to my mind, there's a big
difference between religion being taught as state-sponsored propaganda,
and religion being taught as comparative religion, or within a cultural or
historical context, as was the case in what these kids did.


I agree completely. I think it was slightly dangerous territory -- it may have
been a different exercise if you had had a fundamentalist Christian in your
daughter's group whose parents do not believe in exposing their daughter to
other traditions. I love your stories about the missed words and especially
about the Lego congregation.

I'm curious as to what your reaction is to this, especially if you are of
the No Religion in the School mindset. I'm especially interested in your
reaction if you are English or Episcopalian.


I'm Progressive Christian, of the UCC variety. Episcopals, at least
nationally, are pretty progressive too. I'd guess (but will defer to anyone
who actually *is* Episcopal) they'd find it a great exercise. I look forward
to Penny or someone else from England's view on the historical stuff.

Fun project! Good for your daughter for getting into it, and good for you for
supporting her.

-Dawn
Mom to Henry, 12

  #3  
Old October 20th 04, 02:10 AM
dragonlady
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In article m,
Claire Petersky wrote:


I know many people who are very keen in keeping religion out of the
schools, and generally, I'm one of them. But to my mind, there's a big
difference between religion being taught as state-sponsored propaganda,
and religion being taught as comparative religion, or within a cultural or
historical context, as was the case in what these kids did.

I'm curious as to what your reaction is to this, especially if you are of
the No Religion in the School mindset. I'm especially interested in your
reaction if you are English or Episcopalian.


I certainly don't see the sort of thing your daughter and her friends
did as breaching the church/state wall. In fact, I don't see how one
could possibly understand English history without understanding some of
what was included in their report.

Good schools, with good teachers, don't try to pretend religion doesn't
exist. It can be tricky to teach if someone in the room is a
fundamentalist (of any faith) and objects to THEIR religious tenets
being treated teh same as anyone else's -- but I've seen good teachers
manage it often enough to know it's possible.

Just curious -- did anyone do a similar report on the religions of India?
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

  #4  
Old October 20th 04, 03:07 AM
Ann Porter
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"Claire Petersky" wrote in message
o.com...

I know many people who are very keen in keeping religion out of the
schools, and generally, I'm one of them. But to my mind, there's a big
difference between religion being taught as state-sponsored propaganda,
and religion being taught as comparative religion, or within a cultural or
historical context, as was the case in what these kids did.

I'm curious as to what your reaction is to this, especially if you are of
the No Religion in the School mindset. I'm especially interested in your
reaction if you are English or Episcopalian.


Not English, not Epicopalian, but I agree with you wholeheartedly. I took a
world geography class in the 9th grade that had a unit on world religions
that I found very interesting.

Learning about a culture or a nation would include learning about the
dominant religions. Because the C of E is the state religion, I think it's
perfectly appropriate to talk about it in a cultural context.

Best,
Ann


  #5  
Old October 20th 04, 11:20 AM
Byron Canfield
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"Claire Petersky" wrote in message
o.com...
I know many people who are very keen in keeping religion out of the
schools, and generally, I'm one of them. But to my mind, there's a big
difference between religion being taught as state-sponsored propaganda,
and religion being taught as comparative religion, or within a cultural or
historical context, as was the case in what these kids did.

I'm curious as to what your reaction is to this, especially if you are of
the No Religion in the School mindset. I'm especially interested in your
reaction if you are English or Episcopalian.


I think that's a splendid example of how religion should be taught, or more
to the point, that is definitively teaching, rather than imposing.


--
Byron "Barn" Canfield
-----------------------------
"Politics is a strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles."
-- Ambrose Bierce

  #6  
Old October 20th 04, 08:24 PM
Penny Gaines
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Claire Petersky wrote in
m:

[snip]
Finally, today they are putting on a skit for the class regarding the
historic split with the Catholic Church. My daughter is King Henry the
Eighth, Corrie plays a couple of queens, and Kimberly plays the pope. A
lot of effort went into the costumes, from historical accuracy to having
nice colors and fabrics.

[snip]
I know many people who are very keen in keeping religion out of the
schools, and generally, I'm one of them. But to my mind, there's a big
difference between religion being taught as state-sponsored propaganda,
and religion being taught as comparative religion, or within a cultural or
historical context, as was the case in what these kids did.

I'm curious as to what your reaction is to this, especially if you are of
the No Religion in the School mindset. I'm especially interested in your
reaction if you are English or Episcopalian.


I'm English and Episcopalian, will that do :-). It is always odd to read
about how children are taught about 'other cultures' when ours is the
other culture. We even call ourselves different things: we tend to use
'Anglican' rather then 'Episcopalian',

When I was 16-17yo, I studied a lot of Tudor history (Henry VIII and his
children were Tudors). Actually that was the third time we learnt about
it. It is covered in the first few years at school, then in history at
secondary school (when children are about 11-14yo).

There is absolutely no way you could understand about English history of the
period without knowing about religion. I don't think you could understand
European history of that time without knowing that there was a split in the
Church. You have to know a bit about the Catholic church of the time and a
bit about the Protestant objections. You have to know that the Pope was not
merely a religious figure, but that he had political power as well. If you
can't tell the children about the religion, then you can't teach them about
that bit of English history.

FWIW, Henry VIII was politically opposed to the Pope, but opposed to
Protestants on religious grounds. So we didn't even a proper Reformation
over here :-). Oh, and as there was a church in England before it
became Catholic, the Church of England has the same apostolic tradition that
the Catholics and Orthodox church have: ie they can trace the roots of the
church back to New Testament times. Not many people over here know those
things.

Anyway, it sounds like it was really fun way for them to learn about English
history. Especially the Jedis in the Cathedral.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

  #7  
Old October 20th 04, 11:08 PM
Claire Petersky
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"dragonlady" wrote in message
...

Just curious -- did anyone do a similar report on the religions of India?


Yes -- my daughter said that they were "cheating" because they had a kid in
their group whose parents are from India :-D Apparently that child was able
to bring things from home that were helpful in their presentation.


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
please substitute yahoo for mousepotato to reply
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

  #8  
Old October 20th 04, 11:11 PM
H Schinske
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wrote:

My daughter's group decided to do the religion of England.


I find this pretty funny, actually, since _The Secret Garden_ is not very
Christian at all, barring the doxology bit. In theory they ought to have been
writing reports about Emile Coue or Yeats or someone, all the positive thinking
and natural magic folks. (Why is it, anyway, that no one ever takes Mary to
church? You'd think Mrs. Medlock would -- and I don't remember any churchgoing
in _The Little Princess_, either, where it couldn't have been a matter of being
too far from a church -- I guess it would have ruined the plot if there had
been some kindly clergyman inquiring why Sara wasn't coming to confirmation
class any longer.) The economic and class issues are also pretty cool to think
about -- what does it mean to live on fourteen shillings a week?

I do think that the history of religion pretty much *has* to be taught, or
history in general becomes far more difficult to make any sense of, and I would
have no problem with such a project, though I think it misses the issue of what
the real religious center of this particular book is.

Oh, and I'm Episcopalian, and generally opposed to Christmas and Easter and
what not being celebrated in the schools (largely because I think what the
schools make of such holidays is an idiotic waste of time and no good to
anyone).

Here's part of a post I made to rec.arts.books.childrens some time back: "Going
off topic a bit here, but has anybody ever noticed that a surprising
number of classic children's books are very short on churchgoing? There's no
church in _Little Women_, for instance -- the father is a minister, but doesn't
appear to have any congregation, which is reasonable given the model of Bronson
Alcott, but really very unusual for the times. E. Nesbit's kids don't go to
church much. No church in _The Secret Garden_ that I recall. Just at the moment
the only churchy classics I remember are ones like Charlotte Yonge's _The Daisy
Chain_ that really aren't read any more by modern kids (though I recommend _The
Daisy Chain_ for adults)."

--Helen

  #9  
Old October 21st 04, 12:09 PM
Claire Petersky
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"Penny Gaines" wrote in message
...
Claire Petersky wrote in
m:


Anyway, it sounds like it was really fun way for them to learn about

English
history. Especially the Jedis in the Cathedral.


This is wandering off-topic, but aren't there a number of people in the UK
who identified their religious beliefs in a recent census as Jedi?

Also, someone forwarded me this link, which I pass on to others who may be
interested religious scenes shown in legos:

http://www.thebricktestament.com/


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
please substitute yahoo for mousepotato to reply
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

  #10  
Old October 21st 04, 12:09 PM
Kevin Karplus
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In article m,
Claire Petersky wrote:
My daughter's group decided to do the religion of England. My daughter is
being raised Jewish; another girl, Corrie in her group is Mormon; and the
other girl, Kimberly, is nominally Christian but her family is nonpracting
and has had no religious education. (All names changed to protect..[etc.])


This inclusion of the history of religion in class seems entirely
appropriate, especially given that the girls chose the topic and did
the research themselves---a very different situation to being taught
about one particular religion by the teacher.

I don't remember seeing what age the kids were---the projects seemed
about right for 4th grade though. I know that California 4th graders
are frequently expected to build models of the California missions for
history class, so a model cathedral seems at about the same level.

The vocabulary problems also seem about right for 4th grade.

Although I am not an Episcopalian, I went to Episcopalian church
services and Sunday school as a child. I can't see anything offensive
in the project as described to an Episcopalian. I can see the
potential for mis-representing the beliefs of the church, but the
project appeared to concentrate on the history and not the dogma.

------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
Professor of Biomolecular Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
Senior member, IEEE Board of Directors, ISCB (starting Jan 2005)
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Affiliations for identification only.

 




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