A Parenting & kids forum. ParentingBanter.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » ParentingBanter.com forum » misc.kids » Kids Health
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Why Did "Aids Baby" Eliza Jane Really Die?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old December 5th 05, 06:09 AM posted to misc.kids.health,sci.med,misc.health.alternative
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why Did "Aids Baby" Eliza Jane Really Die?


"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message
...
"Peter Moran" pmoranATbordernet.com.au wrote:


"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...
john wrote:
http://breakfornews.com/my/modules.p...icle&sid= 259

Christine Maggiore and her husband, Robin Scovill, are challenging the
Los Angeles County Coroner's finding that their three-year-old daughter
Eliza Jane Scovill died from Aids-related pneumonia.

We interview pathologist Dr. Mohammed al-Bayati who has just authored a
report revealing that the child died of anaphylactic reaction to a
prescribed antibiotic, and we speak also Dr. Andrew Maniotis of the
University Illinois at Chicago.

For excellent analysis of al-Bayati's "work" see:

http://tinyurl.com/dam9v

especially this comment by a real pathologist:


A Google search reveals that he is a "pathologist-for-hire", figuring in
many court cases where "alternative" science can get people off. He was
involved in the Yurko case.

Peter Moran


Perhaps you should make it clear, Peter, that you are talking about
al-Bayati, not the person referred to by the immediately-preceding
words "real pathologist".

It was al-Bayati who came up with the idea that the baby slaughtered
by Alan Yurko had really been killed by the doctor in the ER.


Yes. Poor expression on my part.

Peter Moran


--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com



  #22  
Old December 5th 05, 06:15 AM posted to misc.kids.health,sci.med,misc.health.alternative
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why Did "Aids Baby" Eliza Jane Really Die?


"JanD" wrote in message
news:_sOkf.596973$x96.536996@attbi_s72...

"Robert" wrote in message
...

"JanD" wrote in message
Education And Board Certifications

I. Human Pathology, Toxicology, Immunology, and Biochmestry

Ph.D. 1989 Comparative Pathology. University of California Davis,

Davis,

This is not a medical Pathologist able to practice in any hospital.
There is no board certification in Clinical or anatomic pathology.
These individuals are not licensed to perform necropsies.
This is an academic degree and not one licensed to practice medicine.

California. Subject of studies: Human pathology, toxicology,
pharmacology,
medical immunology, medical biochemistry, analytical toxicology,
environmental toxicology, and experimental toxicology. Dissertation:
Toxicokinetics and Toxicity of Vanadate


He is a toxicologist and spare me of the academic course work.


DABT 1994 Diplomate, American Board of Toxicology


He is a toxicologist

II. Veterinary Pathology, Toxicology, Immunology, and Endocrinology


He is not even a veterinary pathologist.
He is not an MD. He is not allowed to perform one single autopsy.


Prove it.



You want me to prove he is not an MD or is not board certified in clinical
pathology or anatomical pathology?
He has published on toxicology? And renders an opinion on pneumonia? he
cites the work of others and has no primary research or independent work on
the area of expertise he renders judgment on as far as I can tell.
Why not have Dr Henry Lee look into it as he isn't a pathologist either? Dr
Lee can read books and render his opinion.


  #23  
Old December 5th 05, 06:18 AM posted to misc.kids.health,sci.med,misc.health.alternative
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why Did "Aids Baby" Eliza Jane Really Die?

"JanD" wrote:


"HCN" wrote in message
...

"john" wrote in message
...

http://breakfornews.com/my/modules.p...icle&sid= 259

Christine Maggiore and her husband, Robin Scovill, are challenging the
Los
Angeles County Coroner's finding that their three-year-old daughter Eliza
Jane Scovill died from Aids-related pneumonia.

We interview pathologist Dr. Mohammed al-Bayati


WRONG... he is not a medical pathologist:
http://catallarchy.net/blog/wp-conte...t_on_Eliza.pdf




Nicholas J Bennett MB/Ph.D claims to have a medical degree, I don't see MD
behind his name.


Because, and I will say this v e r y s l o w l y, he got his medical
degree in Britain. See where it says "MB"? That means "Bachelor of
Medicine".

he must be in hiding, a search turns up VERY little.

What's more, the fact that HCN, posted the pdf, most likely means this
Nicholas J Bennett most likely is a *paid off* witch hunter. A search under
his name with the MB/Ph.D turns up very little. WHY would any doctor, use MB
and NOT MD behind his name?


Remember when Sandra Cabot was lying about having "MD" when she has
"MB,BS"? A doctor would use "MB" after his name and not "MD" if the
degree-granting institution awarded him "MB". To put "MD" would be
dishonest.

I can put "BA" after my name because that is the degree I was awarded
by Macquarie University. If I had been to Harvard I would put "AB".
You can't get a PhD from Oxford, but you can get D.Phil.

Comments on Al-Bayati Report from Dr. Harold E. Buttram, MD, FAAEM
One expert to comment is Dr. Harold E. Buttram, MD, FAAEM (Fellow of the
American Academy of Emergency Medicine). He reviewed Al-Bayati's report and
wrote this letter in response:

October 30th 2005
For the past several years I have had the privilege of becoming
familiar with the work of Dr. Mohammed Ali Al-Bayati through mutually shared
cases involving alleged parental child abuse in the form of shaken baby
syndrome (SBS). In these cases, each of us wrote medical reports defending
parents whom we believed were falsely accused.


Yes, we know that Buttram said that Alan Yurko didn't kill the baby he
killed. Why should this case be any different?

snip bull****
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
  #24  
Old December 5th 05, 06:22 AM posted to misc.kids.health,sci.med,misc.health.alternative
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why Did "Aids Baby" Eliza Jane Really Die?


"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message
...
"Peter Moran" pmoranATbordernet.com.au wrote:


"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...
john wrote:
http://breakfornews.com/my/modules.p...icle&sid= 259

Christine Maggiore and her husband, Robin Scovill, are challenging the
Los Angeles County Coroner's finding that their three-year-old daughter
Eliza Jane Scovill died from Aids-related pneumonia.

We interview pathologist Dr. Mohammed al-Bayati who has just authored a
report revealing that the child died of anaphylactic reaction to a
prescribed antibiotic, and we speak also Dr. Andrew Maniotis of the
University Illinois at Chicago.

For excellent analysis of al-Bayati's "work" see:

http://tinyurl.com/dam9v

especially this comment by a real pathologist:


A Google search reveals that he is a "pathologist-for-hire", figuring in
many court cases where "alternative" science can get people off. He was
involved in the Yurko case.

Peter Moran


Perhaps you should make it clear, Peter, that you are talking about
al-Bayati, not the person referred to by the immediately-preceding
words "real pathologist".


Perhaps he could tell us just *where* this search revealed the above?

It was al-Bayati who came up with the idea that the baby slaughtered
by Alan Yurko had really been killed by the doctor in the ER.


It was YOU who uses the word *slaughtered*, and YOU and others who
have continued to judge.

There were literally hundreds of health-care professionals who have made
judgements otherwise.

The toxicological causes of baby Yurko's death was vaccine-and-medication
induced, an overload of drugs and antibiotics.
The child have been given high doses of sodium bicarbonate and heparin,
which cause cardiac arrest and internal bleeding and produce symptoms
similar to SBS.
--
Peter Bowditch



  #25  
Old December 5th 05, 06:31 AM posted to misc.kids.health,sci.med,misc.health.alternative
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why Did "Aids Baby" Eliza Jane Really Die?


"JanD" wrote in message

, MD, FAAEM
One expert to comment is Dr. Harold E. Buttram, MD, FAAEM (Fellow of the
American Academy of Emergency Medicine). He reviewed Al-Bayati's report

and
wrote this letter in response:


A doctor of emergency medicine is not a board certified pathologist.
They don't even know which end of the microscope to look into.
There is a working clinical diagnosis which can change with time or in the
case of death a more definitive diagnosis is made based on autopsy findings
most of the time. The gold standard is the autopsy. One does not have to
guess what's in the brain as most ER doctors are forced to do. All they have
to do in pathology is cut open the brain and see for themselves.
If it's definitive then it's definitive and you don't need an ER doctor
commenting on the differential diagnosis. That's a game they play on the
NEJM by getting five or so doctors and having them go through the
differential diagnosis and making guesses and then they go to the
pathologist for the final say.
What in the world does shaking a baby have to do with pneumonia? Is that his
expertise?


  #26  
Old December 5th 05, 07:59 AM posted to misc.kids.health,sci.med,misc.health.alternative
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why Did "Aids Baby" Eliza Jane Really Die?


"Robert" wrote in message
...

"JanD" wrote in message
news:_sOkf.596973$x96.536996@attbi_s72...

"Robert" wrote in message
...

"JanD" wrote in message
Education And Board Certifications

I. Human Pathology, Toxicology, Immunology, and Biochmestry

Ph.D. 1989 Comparative Pathology. University of California Davis,

Davis,

This is not a medical Pathologist able to practice in any hospital.
There is no board certification in Clinical or anatomic pathology.
These individuals are not licensed to perform necropsies.
This is an academic degree and not one licensed to practice medicine.

California. Subject of studies: Human pathology, toxicology,
pharmacology,
medical immunology, medical biochemistry, analytical toxicology,
environmental toxicology, and experimental toxicology. Dissertation:
Toxicokinetics and Toxicity of Vanadate

He is a toxicologist and spare me of the academic course work.


DABT 1994 Diplomate, American Board of Toxicology

He is a toxicologist

II. Veterinary Pathology, Toxicology, Immunology, and Endocrinology

He is not even a veterinary pathologist.
He is not an MD. He is not allowed to perform one single autopsy.


Prove it.



You want me to prove he is not an MD or is not board certified in clinical
pathology or anatomical pathology?
He has published on toxicology? And renders an opinion on pneumonia? he
cites the work of others and has no primary research or independent work
on
the area of expertise he renders judgment on as far as I can tell.
Why not have Dr Henry Lee look into it as he isn't a pathologist either?
Dr
Lee can read books and render his opinion.



Dr. Al-Bayati received a MVSc in Veterinary Pathology in 1978 from the
University of Cairo, Egypt and a BVMS in Veterinary Sciences in 1975 from
the University of Baghdad, Iraq.

Dr. Al-Bayati has served as principal investigator (PI), co-principal
investigator (Co-PI), and investigator in many funded research grants and
contracts. The following is a list of previously funded projects:
a.. Project Title: Quantitative Evaluation of Serum Chemistry, Hematology
and Pathological Parameters in Dog, Sheep, and Pig Exposed To Whole Body
Irradiation. Agency: AMGEN Pharmaceutical Inc. Thousand Oaks, CA 91320.
Duration: 30 months (1993-1995); Amount: $254,778; Functions: PI,
toxicologist, and pathologist.
b.. Project Title: Improved Models of Risk for Exposure to Organic
Toxicant and Carcinogens. Agency: United States Environmental Protection
Agency. Duration: 48 months (1990-1995); Amount: $980,000; Functions: Co-PI,
toxicologist, and pathologist.
c.. Project Title: Improved Models of Risk for Exposure to Organic
Toxicant. Agency: United States Environmental Protection Agency; Duration:
36 months (1987-1990); Amount: $240,000; Functions: Co-PI, toxicologist, and
pathologist.
d.. Project Title: Dermal Absorption of Methanol and Gasoline/Methanol
Mixtures. Agency: California Air Resources Board. Duration: 18 months
(7/90-12/91); Amount: $84,000; Functions: Co-PI, toxicologist, and
pathologist.
e.. Project Title: Toxicity of the Inhaled Dimethylselenide in Adult Rat.
Agency: University of California, Riverside. Duration: 12 months
(07/87-07/88); Amount: $70,000; Functions: Co-PI, toxicologist, and
pathologist.
f.. Project Title: Inhalation Uptake of Xenobiotic Vapors in People.
Agency: California Air Resources Board; Contract No. A5-155-33. Duration: 18
months (1986-1987); Amount: $150,000; Functions: Investigator, toxicologist,
and pathologist.
g.. Project Title: Effects of Airborne Particulate Matter. Agency:
California Air Resources Board; Contract No. A4-133-33. Duration: 24 months
(1985-1987); Amount: $250,000; Functions: Investigator, toxicologist, and
pathologist.
h.. Project Title: Gastrointestinal Tract Uptake of Benzene in Drinking
Water, and Consequent Tissue and Fetal Retention. Agency: Toxic Substance
Research and Teaching Program, University of California, Davis. Function: 12
months (1986-1987); Amount: $50,000; Functions: Co-PI, toxicologist, and
pathologist.
i.. Project Title: Inhalation Uptake of Xenobiotic Vapors at Trace Levels.
Agency: California Air Resources Board; Contract No. A3-132-33. Duration: 18
months (1984-1986); Amount: $140,000; Functions: Investigator, toxicologist,
and pathologist.
j.. Project Title: Toxicity and Toxicokinetics of Vanadium in Rodents.
Agency: United States Department of Energy. Duration: 72 months (1981-1987);
Functions: Co-PI, toxicologist, and pathologist.
k.. Project Title: Studies of Biological Behavior of Pu-241 and Am-241 in
Rat, Dog, and Primate. Agency: United States Department of Energy. Duration:
72 months (1980-1986); Functions: Investigator, toxicologist, and
pathologist.
l.. Project Title: Respiratory Tract Deposition of Inhaled Aerosols in
Small Rodents. Agency: United States Environmental Protection Agency.
Duration: 60 months (1980-1985); Amount: $500,000; Functions: Investigator,
toxicologist, and pathologist.
Dr. Al-Bayati holds U.S. Patent number 5,686,237 dated November 11, 1997 for
Use of biomarkers in saliva to evaluate the toxicity of agents and the
functions of tissues in both biomedical and environmental applications.


  #27  
Old December 5th 05, 08:20 AM posted to misc.kids.health,sci.med,misc.health.alternative
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why Did "Aids Baby" Eliza Jane Really Die?


JanD wrote:

snip pointless repetition

Repeating his qualifications won't make them relevant to the area he's
making judgements in.

BTW, your howler about an MB not being a doctor sort of makes you
incompetent to judge his qualifications in any case:

"Nicholas J Bennett MB/Ph.D claims to have a medical degree, I don't
see MD
behind his name.

he must be in hiding, a search turns up VERY little.

What's more, the fact that HCN, posted the pdf, most likely means this
Nicholas J Bennett most likely is a *paid off* witch hunter. A search
under
his name with the MB/Ph.D turns up very little. WHY would any doctor,
use MB
and NOT MD behind his name?"

Bless; thanks for the giggle.

Cathy

And:

http://oracknows.blogspot.com/2005/1...-skeptics.html

  #28  
Old December 5th 05, 08:29 AM posted to misc.kids.health,sci.med,misc.health.alternative
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why Did "Aids Baby" Eliza Jane Really Die?


JanD wrote:

"HCN" wrote in message
...

"john" wrote in message
...

http://breakfornews.com/my/modules.p...icle&sid= 259

Christine Maggiore and her husband, Robin Scovill, are challenging the
Los
Angeles County Coroner's finding that their three-year-old daughter Eliza
Jane Scovill died from Aids-related pneumonia.

We interview pathologist Dr. Mohammed al-Bayati


WRONG... he is not a medical pathologist:
http://catallarchy.net/blog/wp-conte...t_on_Eliza.pdf




Nicholas J Bennett MB/Ph.D claims to have a medical degree, I don't see MD
behind his name.


LOL



he must be in hiding, a search turns up VERY little.

What's more, the fact that HCN, posted the pdf, most likely means this
Nicholas J Bennett most likely is a *paid off* witch hunter. A search under
his name with the MB/Ph.D turns up very little. WHY would any doctor, use MB
and NOT MD behind his name?


LOLouder!


Comments on Al-Bayati Report from Dr. Harold E. Buttram, MD, FAAEM
One expert to comment is Dr. Harold E. Buttram, MD, FAAEM (Fellow of the
American Academy of Emergency Medicine). He reviewed Al-Bayati's report and
wrote this letter in response:

October 30th 2005
For the past several years I have had the privilege of becoming
familiar with the work of Dr. Mohammed Ali Al-Bayati through mutually shared
cases involving alleged parental child abuse in the form of shaken baby
syndrome (SBS). In these cases, each of us wrote medical reports defending
parents whom we believed were falsely accused.

Regarding my own background, in the past six years I have written
approximately 80 medical reports in defense of parents whom I believed to
have been falsely accused of violent physical child abuse, largely involving
charges of SBS. With few exceptions in these cases, I have observed a
troubling pattern of abandonment of the usual thoroughness one finds in
medical centers once suspicions of SBS were raised. In most cases that I
have reviewed, in my opinion, there have been varying degrees of negligence
in working through differential diagnoses, sometimes missing the most
obvious of alternate non-traumatic causes.

In the present case of the autopsy report on Eliza Jane Scovill, in my
opinion, there is a similar pattern; that is, diagnostic assumptions have
been made based on superficial evaluation with little if any attempt to
investigate other possible causes of the child's three-week illness
culminating in death.

Regarding Dr. Al-Bayati, I consider him to be a master craftsman in a
broad field of medical expertise. His workups are exhaustive and meticulous,
yet plainly written so as to be accessible to reasonably educated
non-medical people. He makes no statements or claims that he does not
document in the medical literature.

In the case of Eliza Jane Scovill, I first reviewed the autopsy
report, which did in fact give rise to personal concerns and doubts.
However, after going through Dr. Al-Bayati's report point-by-point, he put
all doubts to rest. There is no question in my mind that his report
accurately describes the true causes in the death of Eliza Jane Scovill.

Harold E Buttram, MD, FAAEM
Quakertown, PA, USA


Comments from Dr. Andrew Maniotis
Dr. Maniotis is a Professor of Pathology and Program Director in the Cell
and Developmental Biology of Cancer at the University of Illinois at
Chicago.


http://groups.msn.com/AliveandWellsu...sorypanel.msnw

Dr. Andrew Maniotis (and al-Bayati) are also members of the advisory
board of Christine Maggiore's group, Alive and Well.



November 21st 2005
Dear Ms. Maggio

I read Dr. Al-Bayati's report this weekend with a magnifying lens. I
analyze many similar reports in the course of a single week, as I am a
Professor of Pathology at UIC in the heart of Chicago, at one of the nation's
largest medical schools.

What I can say about the quality of the report - its thoroughness,
insights, the examples chosen to present as differential diagnosis - is that
it is perhaps one of the most thorough, if not the most thorough, and
well-studied investigations I have ever seen. If only more pathologists
could study Dr. Al-Bayati's logical and scientific methodology more
carefully, there would be little need for inquests, malpractice, fraud, and
certainly less medical error in autopsies, diagnosis, treatment, or critical
care practices.

I would only emphasize something in the report that Dr. Al-Bayati
developed quite adequately himself from a technical standpoint by his
stating and showing how the independent neuroconsultant didn't perform the
proper controls for the p24 staining of the microglia and neurons. It should
not escape the attention of the reader, especially those readers not
familiar with the technicalities of the language of these kinds of reports,
that the detection of the p24 antigen is not in any way diagnostic of the
presence of HIV, or any other virus or pathogenic state that I am aware of.
Positive staining for p24 in this case, as in all cases in the published
literature, is without scientific basis since positive staining can be found
also in normal tissues and contexts, as Dr. Al-Bayati suggests by pointing
out that the proper p24 controls were not performed in the LA coroner's
report.

I wish you the very best, and hope with all of my being that this
horrible state affairs that you and your family have been subjected to, due
to the incompetent and mindless analysis done by the original LA coroner and
their consultant, ends as soon as possible.

I state unequivocally that Dr. Al-Bayati's analysis and report
represent the state of the art in terms of methodology, completeness, and
accuracy, and should be presented in the textbooks as models of how to do a
differential diagnosis.

Andrew Maniotis, PhD.
Program Director in the Cell and Developmental Biology of Cancer,
3370 Molecular Biology Research Building,
Department of Pathology, Anatomy and Cell Biology, and Bioengineering,
1819 West Polk Street, Room 446, (MC 847)
University of Illinois at Chicago, Chicago, IL 60612, USA




who has just authored a
report revealing that the child died of anaphylactic reaction to a
prescribed antibiotic, and we speak also Dr. Andrew Maniotis of the
University Illinois at Chicago.






  #29  
Old December 5th 05, 08:32 AM posted to misc.kids.health,sci.med,misc.health.alternative
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why Did "Aids Baby" Eliza Jane Really Die?


"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message
...
"JanD" wrote:


"HCN" wrote in message
...

"john" wrote in message
...

http://breakfornews.com/my/modules.p...icle&sid= 259

Christine Maggiore and her husband, Robin Scovill, are challenging the
Los
Angeles County Coroner's finding that their three-year-old daughter
Eliza
Jane Scovill died from Aids-related pneumonia.

We interview pathologist Dr. Mohammed al-Bayati

WRONG... he is not a medical pathologist:
http://catallarchy.net/blog/wp-conte...t_on_Eliza.pdf




Nicholas J Bennett MB/Ph.D claims to have a medical degree, I don't see MD
behind his name.


Because, and I will say this v e r y s l o w l y, he got his medical
degree in Britain. See where it says "MB"? That means "Bachelor of
Medicine".




he must be in hiding, a search turns up VERY little.

What's more, the fact that HCN, posted the pdf, most likely means this
Nicholas J Bennett most likely is a *paid off* witch hunter. A search
under
his name with the MB/Ph.D turns up very little. WHY would any doctor, use
MB
and NOT MD behind his name?


Remember when Sandra Cabot was lying about having "MD" when she has
"MB,BS"?


NO, I remember, YOU lying and saying she lied.

YOU LIAR.

You also LIED about others as well.

As in Dr. Burzynski.



A doctor would use "MB" after his name and not "MD" if the
degree-granting institution awarded him "MB". To put "MD" would be
dishonest.

I can put "BA" after my name because that is the degree I was awarded
by Macquarie University. If I had been to Harvard I would put "AB".
You can't get a PhD from Oxford, but you can get D.Phil.

Comments on Al-Bayati Report from Dr. Harold E. Buttram, MD, FAAEM
One expert to comment is Dr. Harold E. Buttram, MD, FAAEM (Fellow of the
American Academy of Emergency Medicine). He reviewed Al-Bayati's report
and
wrote this letter in response:

October 30th 2005
For the past several years I have had the privilege of becoming
familiar with the work of Dr. Mohammed Ali Al-Bayati through mutually
shared
cases involving alleged parental child abuse in the form of shaken baby
syndrome (SBS). In these cases, each of us wrote medical reports defending
parents whom we believed were falsely accused.


Yes, we know that Buttram said that Alan Yurko didn't kill the baby he
killed. Why should this case be any different?

snip bull****
--
Peter Bowditch

[snip proven LYING websites]

Which this PROVEN LIAR is speaking of lying.

I repeat, He must be hiding, a search shows VERY little.

Resto

Regarding my own background, in the past six years I have written
approximately 80 medical reports in defense of parents whom I believed to
have been falsely accused of violent physical child abuse, largely involving
charges of SBS. With few exceptions in these cases, I have observed a
troubling pattern of abandonment of the usual thoroughness one finds in
medical centers once suspicions of SBS were raised. In most cases that I
have reviewed, in my opinion, there have been varying degrees of negligence
in working through differential diagnoses, sometimes missing the most
obvious of alternate non-traumatic causes.

In the present case of the autopsy report on Eliza Jane Scovill, in my
opinion, there is a similar pattern; that is, diagnostic assumptions have
been made based on superficial evaluation with little if any attempt to
investigate other possible causes of the child's three-week illness
culminating in death.

Regarding Dr. Al-Bayati, I consider him to be a master craftsman in a
broad field of medical expertise. His workups are exhaustive and meticulous,
yet plainly written so as to be accessible to reasonably educated
non-medical people. He makes no statements or claims that he does not
document in the medical literature.

In the case of Eliza Jane Scovill, I first reviewed the autopsy
report, which did in fact give rise to personal concerns and doubts.
However, after going through Dr. Al-Bayati's report point-by-point, he put
all doubts to rest. There is no question in my mind that his report
accurately describes the true causes in the death of Eliza Jane Scovill.

Harold E Buttram, MD, FAAEM
Quakertown, PA, USA


Comments from Dr. Andrew Maniotis
Dr. Maniotis is a Professor of Pathology and Program Director in the Cell
and Developmental Biology of Cancer at the University of Illinois at
Chicago.

November 21st 2005
Dear Ms. Maggio

I read Dr. Al-Bayati's report this weekend with a magnifying lens. I
analyze many similar reports in the course of a single week, as I am a
Professor of Pathology at UIC in the heart of Chicago, at one of the
nation's
largest medical schools.

What I can say about the quality of the report - its thoroughness,
insights, the examples chosen to present as differential diagnosis - is that
it is perhaps one of the most thorough, if not the most thorough, and
well-studied investigations I have ever seen. If only more pathologists
could study Dr. Al-Bayati's logical and scientific methodology more
carefully, there would be little need for inquests, malpractice, fraud, and
certainly less medical error in autopsies, diagnosis, treatment, or critical
care practices.

I would only emphasize something in the report that Dr. Al-Bayati
developed quite adequately himself from a technical standpoint by his
stating and showing how the independent neuroconsultant didn't perform the
proper controls for the p24 staining of the microglia and neurons. It should
not escape the attention of the reader, especially those readers not
familiar with the technicalities of the language of these kinds of reports,
that the detection of the p24 antigen is not in any way diagnostic of the
presence of HIV, or any other virus or pathogenic state that I am aware of.
Positive staining for p24 in this case, as in all cases in the published
literature, is without scientific basis since positive staining can be found
also in normal tissues and contexts, as Dr. Al-Bayati suggests by pointing
out that the proper p24 controls were not performed in the LA coroner's
report.

I wish you the very best, and hope with all of my being that this
horrible state affairs that you and your family have been subjected to, due
to the incompetent and mindless analysis done by the original LA coroner and
their consultant, ends as soon as possible.

I state unequivocally that Dr. Al-Bayati's analysis and report
represent the state of the art in terms of methodology, completeness, and
accuracy, and should be presented in the textbooks as models of how to do a
differential diagnosis.

Andrew Maniotis, PhD.
Program Director in the Cell and Developmental Biology of Cancer,
3370 Molecular Biology Research Building,
Department of Pathology, Anatomy and Cell Biology, and Bioengineering,
1819 West Polk Street, Room 446, (MC 847)
University of Illinois at Chicago, Chicago, IL 60612, USA




who has just authored a
report revealing that the child died of anaphylactic reaction to a
prescribed antibiotic, and we speak also Dr. Andrew Maniotis of the
University Illinois at Chicago.








  #30  
Old December 5th 05, 08:38 AM posted to misc.kids.health,sci.med,misc.health.alternative
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why Did "Aids Baby" Eliza Jane Really Die?


"Robert" wrote in message
...

"JanD" wrote in message

, MD, FAAEM
One expert to comment is Dr. Harold E. Buttram, MD, FAAEM (Fellow of the
American Academy of Emergency Medicine). He reviewed Al-Bayati's report

and
wrote this letter in response:


A doctor of emergency medicine is not a board certified pathologist.
They don't even know which end of the microscope to look into.
There is a working clinical diagnosis which can change with time or in the
case of death a more definitive diagnosis is made based on autopsy
findings
most of the time. The gold standard is the autopsy. One does not have to
guess what's in the brain as most ER doctors are forced to do. All they
have
to do in pathology is cut open the brain and see for themselves.
If it's definitive then it's definitive and you don't need an ER doctor
commenting on the differential diagnosis. That's a game they play on the
NEJM by getting five or so doctors and having them go through the
differential diagnosis and making guesses and then they go to the
pathologist for the final say.
What in the world does shaking a baby have to do with pneumonia? Is that
his
expertise?


You snipped his background, Robert.

Your *organized medicine* brain washing is showing.

Regarding my own background, in the past six years I have written
approximately 80 medical reports in defense of parents whom I believed to
have been falsely accused of violent physical child abuse, largely involving
charges of SBS. With few exceptions in these cases, I have observed a
troubling pattern of abandonment of the usual thoroughness one finds in
medical centers once suspicions of SBS were raised. In most cases that I
have reviewed, in my opinion, there have been varying degrees of negligence
in working through differential diagnoses, sometimes missing the most
obvious of alternate non-traumatic causes.

In the present case of the autopsy report on Eliza Jane Scovill, in my
opinion, there is a similar pattern; that is, diagnostic assumptions have
been made based on superficial evaluation with little if any attempt to
investigate other possible causes of the child's three-week illness
culminating in death.

Regarding Dr. Al-Bayati, I consider him to be a master craftsman in a
broad field of medical expertise. His workups are exhaustive and meticulous,
yet plainly written so as to be accessible to reasonably educated
non-medical people. He makes no statements or claims that he does not
document in the medical literature.

In the case of Eliza Jane Scovill, I first reviewed the autopsy
report, which did in fact give rise to personal concerns and doubts.
However, after going through Dr. Al-Bayati's report point-by-point, he put
all doubts to rest. There is no question in my mind that his report
accurately describes the true causes in the death of Eliza Jane Scovill.

Harold E Buttram, MD, FAAEM
Quakertown, PA, USA


Comments from Dr. Andrew Maniotis
Dr. Maniotis is a Professor of Pathology and Program Director in the Cell
and Developmental Biology of Cancer at the University of Illinois at
Chicago.

November 21st 2005
Dear Ms. Maggio

I read Dr. Al-Bayati's report this weekend with a magnifying lens. I
analyze many similar reports in the course of a single week, as I am a
Professor of Pathology at UIC in the heart of Chicago, at one of the
nation's
largest medical schools.

What I can say about the quality of the report - its thoroughness,
insights, the examples chosen to present as differential diagnosis - is that
it is perhaps one of the most thorough, if not the most thorough, and
well-studied investigations I have ever seen. If only more pathologists
could study Dr. Al-Bayati's logical and scientific methodology more
carefully, there would be little need for inquests, malpractice, fraud, and
certainly less medical error in autopsies, diagnosis, treatment, or critical
care practices.

I would only emphasize something in the report that Dr. Al-Bayati
developed quite adequately himself from a technical standpoint by his
stating and showing how the independent neuroconsultant didn't perform the
proper controls for the p24 staining of the microglia and neurons. It should
not escape the attention of the reader, especially those readers not
familiar with the technicalities of the language of these kinds of reports,
that the detection of the p24 antigen is not in any way diagnostic of the
presence of HIV, or any other virus or pathogenic state that I am aware of.
Positive staining for p24 in this case, as in all cases in the published
literature, is without scientific basis since positive staining can be found
also in normal tissues and contexts, as Dr. Al-Bayati suggests by pointing
out that the proper p24 controls were not performed in the LA coroner's
report.

I wish you the very best, and hope with all of my being that this
horrible state affairs that you and your family have been subjected to, due
to the incompetent and mindless analysis done by the original LA coroner and
their consultant, ends as soon as possible.

I state unequivocally that Dr. Al-Bayati's analysis and report
represent the state of the art in terms of methodology, completeness, and
accuracy, and should be presented in the textbooks as models of how to do a
differential diagnosis.

Andrew Maniotis, PhD.
Program Director in the Cell and Developmental Biology of Cancer,
3370 Molecular Biology Research Building,
Department of Pathology, Anatomy and Cell Biology, and Bioengineering,
1819 West Polk Street, Room 446, (MC 847)
University of Illinois at Chicago, Chicago, IL 60612, USA




who has just authored a
report revealing that the child died of anaphylactic reaction to a
prescribed antibiotic, and we speak also Dr. Andrew Maniotis of the
University Illinois at Chicago.








 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jane has three ways to get her baby back wexwimpy Foster Parents 0 October 30th 05 05:19 PM
Odent on forceps (also: midwives 'prisoners of protocol') Todd Gastaldo Pregnancy 0 March 1st 04 06:59 AM
Confusing vaccination and immunization (Jane Orient, MD; also: 'PF Riley, MD') Todd Gastaldo Pregnancy 7 September 11th 03 02:52 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 ParentingBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.