128 students suspended at Ind. school

On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 09:00:33 -0500, "Tori M"
wrote:

My point (yes there is one G) is that while my comment doesn't apply
to school supplies directly, that there are situations in which some
families aren't aware of assistance. And I think to say, 'well, the
help is out there' is an assumption that judges people and I don't
think it's good to make that assumption.

Well see you are doing your part by telling them where to get help.

I could have just as easily thought to myself, "the help is out there,
why don't they go get it?". Well, not just as easily, because I tend
to try and look deeper when people are having problems.
I just think it's very unwise to operate on assumptions about people.

Nan

"Nan" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 09:00:33 -0500, "Tori M"
wrote:

My point (yes there is one G) is that while my comment doesn't apply
to school supplies directly, that there are situations in which some
families aren't aware of assistance. And I think to say, 'well, the
help is out there' is an assumption that judges people and I don't
think it's good to make that assumption.

Well see you are doing your part by telling them where to get help.

I could have just as easily thought to myself, "the help is out there,
why don't they go get it?". Well, not just as easily, because I tend
to try and look deeper when people are having problems.
I just think it's very unwise to operate on assumptions about people.

Well I wouldnt do that either when talking to someone who needs help.. but
in a discussion with others I can say there are places where they can get
help. I know this because I have been there. I have done my homeless time.
I lived in 2 differant shelters. The ones in NH actualy charge you rent!
When I was pregnant with Bonnie we ran out of food a couple times and thats
when we had to humble ourselves and go to the food kitchens.. I am actualy
talking from experiance. I skip meals almost daily.. my kids usualy eat all
3 meals or enough so they are not asking for food.

Even now Jeff makes about 23,000 a year I ask how we can help those with
less. I have been there.

Tori

On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 14:21:02 -0500, "Tori M"
wrote:


"Nan" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 09:00:33 -0500, "Tori M"
wrote:

My point (yes there is one G) is that while my comment doesn't apply
to school supplies directly, that there are situations in which some
families aren't aware of assistance. And I think to say, 'well, the
help is out there' is an assumption that judges people and I don't
think it's good to make that assumption.

Well see you are doing your part by telling them where to get help.

I could have just as easily thought to myself, "the help is out there,
why don't they go get it?". Well, not just as easily, because I tend
to try and look deeper when people are having problems.
I just think it's very unwise to operate on assumptions about people.

Well I wouldnt do that either when talking to someone who needs help.. but
in a discussion with others I can say there are places where they can get
help. I know this because I have been there. I have done my homeless time.
I lived in 2 differant shelters. The ones in NH actualy charge you rent!
When I was pregnant with Bonnie we ran out of food a couple times and thats
when we had to humble ourselves and go to the food kitchens.. I am actualy
talking from experiance. I skip meals almost daily.. my kids usualy eat all
3 meals or enough so they are not asking for food.

Even now Jeff makes about 23,000 a year I ask how we can help those with
less. I have been there.

IME, the most generous people tend to be those who have been there...

Nan

"Nan" wrote in message
...
On 1 Sep 2006 04:58:31 -0700, wrote:


Nan wrote:
On 31 Aug 2006 08:45:50 -0700, wrote:


Barbara wrote:


Its difficult to comprehend the extent of poverty in even so-called
first-world countries. I recall a friend working on a legal aid
case.
The client lived in an SRO (at least he wasn't homeless) with no
access
to a kitchen or means to cook. He testified that he ate lunch most
days and Dunkin Donuts or another inexpensive fast food place. The
ALJ
kept asking where he ate his other meals. The guy just didn't get
it.
There WERE no other meals. That's all he could afford each day -- a
cheap junkie lunch. That guy didn't have kids, but if he had, there
might not have BEEN an extra dime each week.

But if he had kids there would have been food stamps. The kids would
have gotten free breakfasts and lunches at school.

IF he was aware of such programs, wasn't illiterate and therefore able
to read forms that came home with the child, and was able to even
provide the documentation necessary to receive public assistance.

He was obviously able to apply to legal aid.

Yes, I know, I was pointing this out as a general comment that would
apply to others.

You're not understanding that there is an entire class of families
that fall through the cracks. They're the Working Poor. They make
too much money to receive assistance programs, but can't afford much
beyond basic necessities. What would you have them do? Quit their
jobs to receive help?


A guy living in an SRO and eating one meal a day at Dunkin' Donuts is
almost certainly NOT 'the working poor.'

I agree. I put it in this response for lack of a better place. I
apologize if it was confusing.

There happen to have sitting here by the computer the papers sent home
with SHaina at the beginning of the year about applying for free school
lunches and textbooks. THe income cut off for a family of 3 is $2,560
a month. That's over $30,000 a year. In this city, you can rent a 2
bedroom apartment for under $600 a month. (Oh, and no special
documentation is required. You just fill out the form and send it in.)

Again, there are certainly families in difficult straits. They need to
ask for help. If they can't read the forms, they contact the school
and ask for help with the forms. (Oh, and the form has a spanish and
french translation on the bottom telling the reader to call for
assistance if needed.)

I agree that the need to ask for help is there.... I'm just pointing
out that there are circumstances unique to some families that may
prevent that.

For an example: We have a neighbor family with 6 children that
recently got their utilities turned off. I noticed the utilities
still hadn't been turned on after a week. I don't speak Spanish and
they don't speak English, so the language barrier meant I couldn't ask
if they knew of assistance programs. I ended up having another
neighbor translate, and asked certain agencies to mail forms in
spanish to me so I could give them the forms.

Turns out they didn't know they could get Energy Assitance to pay
their bill. Or that they probably qualified for food stamps and
medicaid or at least free dental at the clinic for the kids and WIC
for the babies.

My point (yes there is one G) is that while my comment doesn't apply
to school supplies directly, that there are situations in which some
families aren't aware of assistance. And I think to say, 'well, the
help is out there' is an assumption that judges people and I don't
think it's good to make that assumption.

But, we're talking about kids at school. Any inner city teacher worth
his/her salt knows what assistance programs are out there and where to send
parents if a problem is demonstrated. And most inner city schools in my
experience have not only a counselor, but a school based social worker as
well. Yes, those individuals have responsibility for the entire school, but
they've also got a full-time job in supporting students who have needs to be
met-so there's no excuse for them not stepping in and helping. Title I
schools, which any school with a high percentage of low income students will
qualify for, have extra funds to be spent on parent education and
involvement, and in fact, have to document that they do so, and will often
have an additional staffer just dedicated to this role. The board of health
here has come into the schools and done physical exams and dental exams and
sealants for children eligible for tenncare, where all the parent has to do
is sign the permission form.

For children in school, the resources are there and the parent doesn't have
to ask for them. They should be offered as it becomes apparent they're
needed. If they are not, and the school is recieving governmental funds for
low income students, the school is in violation legally. And even if they
aren't it's still going to be hard to deny the responsibility, especially at
the elementary and middle levels.

bizby40 wrote:
"Nan" wrote in message
...
Yep. Sometimes the dynamic of misc.kids seems to be that new or
sporadic posters seem to get targeted, whether intentionally or
unintentionally.

Sometimes the dynamic of misc.kids is that regulars get into long and
sometimes intense arguments. This group has evolved into more of a
debating society than a social or support group. At one point there
used to be many more ctts and cttd posts -- even the occasional birth
story. While we still field "advice" questions such as "Help! My 2
year old isn't sleeping!" an increasingly large part of this group has
become debates on philosophical or political questions. The
unfortunate part is that we don't have a moderator -- and I mean
moderator in the real life sense of "someone to keep the conversation
on track" rather than the Usenet "someone to censor objectionable
posts" sense -- so often these debates go off track and get into name
calling and hurt feelings.

I'm not complaining mind you -- I found the birth stories boring even
why my kids were infants! So I think this group is more interesting
to me than alt.mothers would be. That's the nature of Usenet -- if
you don't like one group, you find another you like better. Note that
I'm not trying to tell you or nimue or anyone else to leave. That's
the other nature of Usenet -- you can post what you want. If enough
people started posting the birth stories and cttx posts, the nature of
this newsgroup would swing back again.

Nimue may be new to this group, but she's not a net newbie. I read
some of her stuff on the cf newsgroup, and she doesn't seem to shy
away from debate. I think she can hold her own. I didn't read much,
but I liked what I read, and really respected the fact that she
sometimes took on the more radical child-free elements. I would be
happy to have her stick around if she chooses to do so, because we
have a lot of education-related threads, and it's nice having
teachers' perspectives.

Thank you. I am so flattered by what you wrote about me! The truth is,
even though it appears I can hold my own -- and even if I can -- it just
felt WONDERFUL to have Jen and Nan and come to my defense. Never think that
just because a person seems to be able to battle a group that she doesn't
need or want help. I have to say, despite my experience with toypup, I
really like this ng and my experience here has been such that I want to
stick around. It just was just so sweet to get the support I did from Jen
and Nan and others. Oh, and that Cathy Weekes woman is brilliant.

Bizby

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah

toypup wrote:
"nimue" wrote in message
...
toypup wrote:
Well, that's good. Would you have bothered to reread them if I had
just asked you. Would you have bothered if no one came to my
defense? I don't mean to antagonize you; I just want you to think
about it. I know I can be
a jerk, so if someone tells me I am, I really try to take a good
look at my
behavior.

What got me
riled was the way she came in with swords raised and her manner of
address for some posters and her use of "stupid" to describe posts
(since it implies the poster was not bright and is an attack on the
poster). My arguments regarding the topic stands. However, if
Nimue felt attacked, I appologize.

I do wish you had written "I am sorry for attacking nimue."
However, you tried. I accept your apology and I am sorry for how I
attacked you. I know
I was a jerk -- I get that way when I am attacked; many of us do.
We both did here, I guess.


If Nimue is reading this, I appologize. I do think you were
striking below the belt, in you latest posts and have been the
bully lately. I think you should own up to that.

Oh, that's not a good apology. It's really not. It focuses on me
and what
I have done wrong. It makes excuses for you and puts the blame on
me. I know my kids would see right through that kind of "apology"
and it would make them angry. C'mon. I admit I was a jerk to you.
I am sorry. I wish
I could be a better person. That's a better apology and I mean it.

You're still being quite antagonistic. However, I'm sorry for being
harsh to you. I wasn't very nice to you. Better? Let's move on.

Actually, I was giving you some very valuable information. Try reading it
again when you are less ****ed at me. It will save you a world of trouble
with your kids and with others.

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah

toypup wrote:
"bizby40" wrote in message
...

"Jen" wrote in message
...
I'm sorry, but I've always been a believer that the people who
stand by and watch are just as bad as the bullies themselves.

lol -- I've been called a netnanny and a netcop before for the same
reason. I too can't stand to see someone being bullied. I just
generally think of bullying as being several people ganging up on
one, or one person being belligerent while the other is cowering.
This situation seemed much more like a pretty even match between two
people. And in that situation, I (obviously don't mind my own
business like I should) try to play peacemaker.

I like your role as peacemaker. Anyway, I do think it was an even
match. Nimue certainly didn't cower.

Hell, no (I guess that makes swear word number 3). That doesn't mean you
didn't hurt me, though.


--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah

Barbara wrote:
Nan wrote:
On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 12:58:11 GMT, "Jen"
wrote:


"Jen" wrote in message
...

"bizby40" wrote in message
...

"Jen" wrote in message
...
I'm sorry, but I've always been a believer that the people who
stand by and watch are just as bad as the bullies themselves.

lol -- I've been called a netnanny and a netcop before for the
same reason. I too can't stand to see someone being bullied. I
just generally think of bullying as being several people ganging
up on one, or one person being belligerent while the other is
cowering. This situation seemed much more like a pretty even
match between two people. And in that situation, I (obviously
don't mind my own business like I should) try to play peacemaker.

No, it wasn't only one person, there were others as well. That's
why I felt the need to step in.

I also meant to say, she sounded *cornered*, and was constantly
defending herself, and explaining herself.

Yep. Sometimes the dynamic of misc.kids seems to be that new or
sporadic posters seem to get targeted, whether intentionally or
unintentionally. I have no trouble defending someone I perceive as
being treated unfairly.
I like a good debate as well as anyone, but it doesn't need to spiral
down into what this discussion turned into.

Hey Barbara, if you haven't killfiled me, I apologize for my words
yesterday.

You have far too many interesting ideas and comments -- whether or not
I agree with them -- to ever killfile you.

I do sincerely regret that things I've said in the past have hurt or
offended you. I'll still defend myself by saying that I never intend
such an effect, but since my words clearly appear to have resulted in
that, I take responsibility for it and apologize.

That is a pretty good apology. I know it's not to me, but I specialize in
apologies, so I thought I would let you know.

Barbara

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah

"nimue" wrote in message
...
Thank you. I am so flattered by what you wrote about me! The truth
is,
even though it appears I can hold my own -- and even if I can -- it
just
felt WONDERFUL to have Jen and Nan and come to my defense.

I understand that, just please realize that toypup was feeling the
same way. She felt as attacked as you did.

Bizby

"Nan" wrote in message
news
Well, I know you're talking about a pen and notebook, which is cheap.
But here's the list for my dd's First Grade class:

Backpack
Box of pencils to share with the class
2 boxes of tissues
4-6 dry erase markers
24 ct. box of crayons
Scissors
Bottle school glue
3 glue sticks
Gym shoes w/non-marking soles
2 boxes snacks to share with class
1 box gallon size storage bags (girls)
1 box quart size storage bags (boys)

I know this is a lot. I also know that I never needed all this when I was
in school. I also know DS is in kindergarten and his school list
requirement was one pencil case, period. Everything else was supplied.
Backpacks were prohibited (just for kindergarteners). Is your community
more or less affluent? What is the supply list for first grade in Nimue's
community?