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#11
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what to do when your kid hurts another
"toypup" wrote in message ... "Kat" wrote in message ... Apologies are useless. Most of the time kids don't mean it and are saying it for YOU, not them or the other child. I disagree with this. If a child hurts someone, he must apologize. There are adults in this world whose egos are so big, they never learn to do that and it hurts their relationships with others. Even if at first, the kids apologize to make parents happy, they eventually learn the value of it when they see the positive effects it has on their relationships with others. DS has learned to apologize when he makes mistakes and I do believe he does it with sincerity. It's useless. I also would spare my child the embarrassment of a big written letter or apology in person to the child and their parents. I also disagree here. The letter is not intended to embarrass but rather it is exactly that -- an apology. If someone hurt me and apologized in a letter, I would feel better about it. Both of what you said are fair statements about an apology. Why make him apologize twice? If your DS is one to feel some kind of remorse for something that seems to be out of the blue (I get the impression that he's not one to kick and hurt others on a regular basis, and this little incident with the other kid is not something that happens every time he's playing with someone) Anyways, if he is one to feel bad after hurting someone, I think then the apology would be from him, without you needing to prompt. I am meaning a forced apology is useless if you need to tell them over and over. I know with my DDs, they're at that age where they're at eachother's necks most of the time. At 2 and 3, hitting seems to be almost a natural reaction if one takes something away from the other. For this, I have tried to make one say sorry over and over and over, and it's pointless. For them, something like a hug is more effective if one kicks or hits the other one out of frustration. Even at 2 and 3, though, they do know how to apologize. DD2 (the 2 year old) even knows how to say sorry - the other day she tripped DD1 and down DD1 goes. DD2 turned around and said, "Oh! Sorry!" I realize a 2 year old and 7 year old can't really be compared, but it's that even a 2 year old can say sorry on their own and mean it as far as what they think it means. And forcing it IS useless. I would rather have no apology from another adult for something than one that involves eye rolling or forcing or snapping or not meaning it. If your DS is one to feel bad for apologizing, then he'll do it on his own. And maybe he already did apologize to the other child. He might not have told you he did say he was sorry, but he also might have. I think the apology for something like kicking someone else is best done at the time, or fairly shortly after. and chances are that the other kid won't really care or remember. Kids seem to get over things fairly easily. And they'll be back playing and just fine in no time at all. Dragging it out seems pointless. I agree that things will be fine. DD got into something with her friend and I don't remember what it was, but when her friend came over, she took DD's hand and looked her in the eye and apologized. I am sure her mother put her up to it, but it was heartfelt and all was better. All would have been forgotten anyway, but I think that was honorable. If the child was physically harmed, I'd let it go. Also, another rule of thumb is not to punish, but to discipline. Shame and all that isn't a good way to handle things, it seems. If you didn't see it actually happen, then you can't blame one or the other. The story was clear cut, as DS is truthful (one quality I admire about him) and told me exactly what happened. The story was not told by the neighbor child. I am not attempting to shame my child. I am attempting to help him to right a wrong. If you hurt someone, is it shameful to apologize? No, I didn't mean that. I was just putting a point out that this isn't something a person wants to do. I didn't mean to imply you were doing it or going to do it at all. Did DS apologize to the other child? Help him up, give him a hug, shake his hand, help him sit down or anything like that? Before you were around? If he felt bad, did he say he was sorry at the time? Or do something to say/show he was sorry when he knew he did something wrong? Even a hug could mean "I'm sorry I did this" - or if he's at the age where hugging someone else is not alright, helping him up, something else that might have shown he knew he did something that wasn't alright and tried to make it better? |
#12
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what to do when your kid hurts another
"toypup" wrote:
and chances are that the other kid won't really care or remember. Kids seem to get over things fairly easily. And they'll be back playing and just fine in no time at all. Dragging it out seems pointless. I agree that things will be fine. DD got into something with her friend and I don't remember what it was, but when her friend came over, she took DD's hand and looked her in the eye and apologized. I am sure her mother put her up to it, but it was heartfelt and all was better. All would have been forgotten anyway, but I think that was honorable. Having been on the receiving end.... When dd#1 was about 2, we went to visit my old friend (we were in school together from kindergarten to 8th grade). We were both pregnant and she had a little boy who was about a year older than dd. The child was massively jealous of the attention that his mom was paying to me and to dd#1. So he hauled off and hit her over the head with a metal train engine. His mom was mortified of course. DD#1 didn't even cry - she just kind of looked at him, and then went on with what she was doing. My friend did something in the way of mitigation that I thought was appropriate at the time but I confess that I don't remember what it was. DD didn't appear to be hurt, so I wasn't upset. I could see what his problem was and that he really didn't have the language to address it - what he wanted was for us to leave so he could have his mom's exclusive attention again, but I wasn't going to do that. |
#13
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what to do when your kid hurts another
"Chookie" wrote in message news:ehrebeniuk-BDDA7F.23434702112008@news... Not anywhere near that. I would have insisted on an apology, but what followed would have depended somewhat on context. If the victim no longer wanted to play then I would certainly have taken him home, of course, but most kids I see seem to forgive each other quickly and just want to get on with their games. Life is full of little spats and putting them behind us is also a desirable skill. And little boys are little boys, and they *do* tend to play fighting games. Note also that a child may by chance land a more painful blow than they expect - eg, if a kick is aimed at the leg but lands in the groin. Actually, if the child was hurt during a fighting game, it would not have bothered me much, unless the child was very hurt, but even then I wouldn't have punished him. Why is dropping your crackers such a bad thing to your son? I don't know, but I do know that when I accidentally made him drop a cracker once not long ago, he threw a screaming fit. There's something about crackers. Did DS have a bad day, less sleep than usual or was he hyped up on sugar? Not that I know of. Was the other child actually hurt? I mean, did the child need more attention than a moment's cuddle and a Band-Aid? If the child wants Mummy, he is really hurt, but if he cheers up at the sight of an Elmo Band-Aid, he's fine. I would be concerned if a 7yo had managed to deliberately inflict serious pain on a little kid, though as I said, it's usually accidental at that age. They don't have the coordination to do it deliberately. It was deliberate; and the child, who normally just gets up and walks things off, was doubled up on the ground crying. He did want to go home. In sum, I think the long list of punishments is too much for what I am assuming is a rare outburst which didn't do much damage. Remember, children are not little adults, and civilising them is a gradual process. I think what bothered me most is that the child was so much smaller than DS and that is was deliberate for no good reason. DS has fought before, and I normally only give time outs. It just shocked me that he would hurt a small child like that. It was by no means a fair fight. The little boy did not hit him or anything and wasn't big enough to defend himself. |
#14
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what to do when your kid hurts another
"Kat" wrote in message ... Did DS apologize to the other child? Help him up, give him a hug, shake his hand, help him sit down or anything like that? Not at all to any of the above. He was yelling and screaming about the other child for making him drop his crackers. He felt he was in the right at the time. Before you were around? If he felt bad, did he say he was sorry at the time? Or do something to say/show he was sorry when he knew he did something wrong? Even a hug could mean "I'm sorry I did this" - or if he's at the age where hugging someone else is not alright, helping him up, something else that might have shown he knew he did something that wasn't alright and tried to make it better? No. That's why he needs to apologize. |
#15
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what to do when your kid hurts another
toypup wrote:
DS is 7 yo and he kicked his 5 yo friend who was visiting in our house. I was mortified. DS knows better to hit, and this child is so much smaller than he and for no real reason (he claims the other child made him drop his crackers). I immediately made him apologize and sent DS to his room and he is still sitting there. I brought the other child home and apologized to the mom. I talked it over with DH and we came up with a punishment of no friends for five days and he needs to write a letter of apology to the 5 yo, along with a verbal and heartfelt apology to the child and his mom. What would you do? This seems odd to me. My approach would actually be different I think. I definitely thinking remedy and/or amends in the thick of the situation is appropriate. But after that had passed, I would be trying a different tack. I would first focus on what was the problem. It may seem obvious frustration at dropping the crackers. But ... it may be something else. You can't find the solution until you know the problem. Example... we were at Disney World and my dd had gotten a balloon. DS (elder) kept trying to grab it out of her hand and fiddle with it. My MIL and FIL and husband all thought he was trying to grab it from her. (He was offered a balloon and declined.) I took him aside and learned that he was worried that she was going to loose it harkening back to an experience he had where a series of balloons let go at the point where the balloon connected to the string. He was so shook up by that old experience that he has not wanted a balloon since and was worried about his sister's feelings should she loose this very special balloon. If I had punished him for "grabbing" his sister's balloon, he would not have understood a lesson and would have been anxious about the stupid balloon the rest of the day. Likely he woudl attempt to "grab" more to protect her balloon. But instead I was able to reassure him that these balloons are put together better than the cheap ones at the grocery store and that it is tied to her wrist and that we were not going to let her suffer the loss of that balloon shoudl it wind up flying away. The rest of the day proceeded with no further grabbing. If your son is not normally a hitter, even when frustrated, there may be something else going on related to crackers or something else not obvious. If you can get to a sense of what he felt the problem is, you can guide him into better techniques to handle the problem the next time a similar situation comes up... so he does not need to hit. Dont know if that makse sense. Best of luck. S |
#16
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what to do when your kid hurts another
Sue wrote:
Holy crap, not all of what your planning, that's for sure. Sending the child home, having your son apologize, and sending your son to his room would be all I would do. I think you are over-reacting. Kids do this stuff and it's quite normal. However, no friends for five days is quite a lot and a letter, and apologizing to the mom is over the top, imo. To be honest I'd doubt that a 7 year old could fully understand the link between what he'd done and the consequences of no friends over and the writing of the letter. They might superficially appear to understand it, but sometimes they then come out with things that make you realise they really didn't. Besides it sounds like maybe not having friends over is a bit backwards, the kick seems to have come out of frustration with something the other child was doing, maybe he was bothered that he was expected to play with this child, but unable to verbalise that, or explain it, so maybe not having friends over might be the desired result rather than a punishment! (not saying it is, but food for thought?). Cheers Anne |
#17
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what to do when your kid hurts another
You can't force an apology that means much out of a child unless they do it on their own. I'm not convinced that not making a child say something because they don't mean it is necessarily the way to go in the long term. Take basic manners, like saying please and thank you. If you do baby sign language that might be something you are working on before they are one, without sign language it's still something that you think about well before age 2. But for months or even years the understanding of the child is unlikely to go beyond I do this because this is what I have to do to make my mother give me a drink, not because they have a true sense of the meaning. Saying the word sorry is less generic than please or thank you, but it's heading that way. Saying please, thank you, sorry and responding if a question is asked is pretty much my bottom line of basic manners and so far it seems to be working and not saying sorry is unacceptable in our house, though our children do seem to be wired such that they cannot say sorry without meaning it in some way and if there is no remorse in them at all, they stubbornly refuse to apologise, which results in time out. Cheers Anne |
#18
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what to do when your kid hurts another
"Anne Rogers" wrote in message ... really didn't. Besides it sounds like maybe not having friends over is a bit backwards, the kick seems to have come out of frustration with something the other child was doing, maybe he was bothered that he was expected to play with this child, but unable to verbalise that, or explain it, so maybe not having friends over might be the desired result rather than a punishment! (not saying it is, but food for thought?). Well, he wanted the kid to come over, so I think he did want to play with the friend, at least before the cracker incident. |
#19
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what to do when your kid hurts another
"toypup" wrote:
"Chookie" wrote in message news:ehrebeniuk-BDDA7F.23434702112008@news... Actually, if the child was hurt during a fighting game, it would not have bothered me much, unless the child was very hurt, but even then I wouldn't have punished him. Why is dropping your crackers such a bad thing to your son? I don't know, but I do know that when I accidentally made him drop a cracker once not long ago, he threw a screaming fit. There's something about crackers. snip Was the other child actually hurt? snip It was deliberate; and the child, who normally just gets up and walks things off, was doubled up on the ground crying. He did want to go home. snip I think what bothered me most is that the child was so much smaller than DS and that is was deliberate for no good reason. DS has fought before, and I normally only give time outs. It just shocked me that he would hurt a small child like that. It was by no means a fair fight. The little boy did not hit him or anything and wasn't big enough to defend himself. But there WAS a good reason, or what your son thinks of as a good reason - you said it yourself - your son really hates to drop crackers. He was infuriated because the other kid (not knowing the importance of crackers I guess) made him drop his. Perhaps you need to figure out what it is about crackers. DD#2 used to complain bitterly that there was a little boy (name of Wayne IIRC) who would insisted on sitting next to her and who would throw her down on the playground. When I finally saw Wayne, I could not understand it because Wayne was WAY smaller than dd#2 (This was about 2nd or 3rd grade). She could easily have kept him from doing anything to her. It sounds like your ds over-reacted because crackers were so important to him, and he probably felt that his little friend did it on purpose. And maybe the friend DID do it on purpose, not realizing the importance of crackers. Size isn't really relevant when someone is enraged. Most of the time when there's a disagreement, there are really two people at fault. The friend just got a little more than he bargained for. |
#20
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what to do when your kid hurts another
Well, he wanted the kid to come over, so I think he did want to play with the friend, at least before the cracker incident. My son is only 5, but already he will express desires which are the exact opposite of what he really wants because he's thinking a few steps ahead, so he might figure out that if we have guests that means we get to have dessert then start asking if we can invite guests over, superficially it might seem that that is all it is about, but then we find out it isn't. If it's happening and we notice, then I'll bet there are times when it all happens without something obvious making us realise it wasn't a true desire. Cheers Anne |
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