Measles, Mumps, Rubella Vaccine

wrote:
but there is no concrete proof that there isn't a link either.
correlational research suggests that there is a relationship.

You will never find proof that there is no link other than
epidemiological research which shows that there is none.

any idea on how to get single shots?

wrote:
There are a lot of people out there--I know of one personally--who believe
(although anecdotally) that mmr has caused damage--regressive autism--in
their children.

For those who claim that their kids suffer from "regressive autism" I
often ask them to prove that it exists.

I don't claim to know if there is a true relationship (and
I truly hope that there is not), but I am starting to err on the side of
caution and believe that for some children, there is a relationship. That
relationship may be very complex and multifaceted--we won't begin to
understand this relationship as long as we keep fighting over whether the
vaccine is safe or not. At this point, there is huge liability (in many
ways, not just financial--the public trust will further be eroded in public
health, government and medicine) if the vaccine is found to be unsafe
(remember the polio vaccine fiasco).

VERY poor analogy. The OPV was discontinued when it was determined that
the risks outweighed the benefits. Instead, the IPV was recommended as
it provides sufficient protection in most of the Western world. For
those going to areas where wild polio is still a massive problem, the
OPV is strongly suggested before departing.

Let's face it, measles is a nasty
thing and without a vaccine many will suffer/die. However, I am not willing
accept the possibility that while vaccine may be good for the herd, it will
hurt (in terrible ways) some. Why not look at why the attenuated virus of
the vaccine occurs in children with autism who have had the MMR? For one, I
would also look at for the presence of the virus in vaccinated vs
unvaccinated children with autism and bowel problems, those with only bowel
problems, those with only autism and healthy controls. This type of study
should elicit relationships if they exist and serve as the basis for theory
generation. Science is not about fighting, egos, politics, money, (am I
being too idealistic?) etc.

You are. In fact, ego is an important part of the scientific process.
One researcher finds 'X' and the rest of them goes to see if that
finding is valid...to knock the guy who found it.

and this whole MMR controversy has slid into a
polarized shouting match that unfortunately obfuscates what I believe are
the real issues and precludes the possibility of finding meaningful answers.
Wakefield is being vilified in the British Press, perhaps deservedly; but
we must realize that flawed design or not (it is the only thing we have at
this point) 2 other independent studies have generally supported Wakefield's
claim.

I remember hearing awhile back that the Japanese put of mandatory
vaccination until age 2 and their autism rates dropped to baseline levels.
Perhaps I am wrong here.

You are.

HCN wrote:
wrote in message
...
perhaps these guys are quacks. I don't know.

Who?... you did not use any quotes to indicate what you are responding to.

But Bradstreet, Wakefield and Fudenberg are all quacks. And the owner of
the whale.to website, John Scudamore, is a net-loon.

he would be a loon without the net.

"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...
HCN wrote:
wrote in message
...
perhaps these guys are quacks. I don't know.

Who?... you did not use any quotes to indicate what you are responding
to.

But Bradstreet, Wakefield and Fudenberg are all quacks. And the owner of
the whale.to website, John Scudamore, is a net-loon.

he would be a loon without the net.

Did you see his page on dealing with "black lines"?... pure comedy gold!

In misc.kids.pregnancy Michelle J. Haines wrote:
: wrote:
: There are a lot of people out there--I know of one personally--who believe
: (although anecdotally) that mmr has caused damage--regressive autism--in
: their children. I

: There's a lot of people out there who think the Freemasons are
: Satanists and rule the world, too.

: Michelle
: Flutist

Naaah, it's the Illuninati. And they are headed by the families of
the founders of all the big Eurpoean (and American) banks, and they
have members on the board of every major multinational corporation.
Further they choose the leader to be either elected or appointed for
most of the nations of the earth, and all the wars fought are solely
for the enrichment of this group of people.

Sheeh, I though everybody knew that! :-)

Now, sarcasm(?) aside, I thought your reposnse to yossarian's comment
out of context was quite unfair, and the possible research he suggested
would go a LONG way to answering the question in a more factual manner.

Larry

HCN wrote:
"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...
HCN wrote:
wrote in message
...
perhaps these guys are quacks. I don't know.
Who?... you did not use any quotes to indicate what you are responding
to.

But Bradstreet, Wakefield and Fudenberg are all quacks. And the owner of
the whale.to website, John Scudamore, is a net-loon.
he would be a loon without the net.

Did you see his page on dealing with "black lines"?... pure comedy gold!


I think he was born he

http://tinyurl.com/q5ekx

wrote:

Now, sarcasm(?) aside, I thought your reposnse to yossarian's comment
out of context was quite unfair, and the possible research he suggested
would go a LONG way to answering the question in a more factual manner.

I addressed that in other posts.

However, my point in this one is that "a lot of people" believe in all
kinds of stupid, nutty, crazy, odd-ball things that have not a shred
of proof behind them, and knowing them personally doesn't make that
any different. So saying, "A lot of people believe and I know one.."
is evidence of nothing at all.

Michelle
Flutist

Japan changed the start time for vaccinating from 3 months to two years and
straight away their SIDS rate plummeted? "Delay of DPT immunisation until
2 years of age in Japan has resulted in a dramatic decline in adverse side
effects. In the period of 1970-1974, when DPT vaccination was begun at 3
to 5 months of age, the Japanese national compensation system paid out
claims for 57 permanent severe damage vaccine cases, and 37 deaths. During
the ensuing six year period 1975-1980, when DPT injections were delayed to
24 months of age, severe reactions from the vaccine were reduced to a
total of eight with three deaths. This represents an 85 to 90 percent
reduction in severe cases of damage and death." Raymond Obomsawin, M.D.

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/vaccine_sids.htm

In misc.kids.pregnancy Michelle J. Haines wrote:
: wrote:
:
: Now, sarcasm(?) aside, I thought your reposnse to yossarian's comment
: out of context was quite unfair, and the possible research he suggested
: would go a LONG way to answering the question in a more factual manner.

: I addressed that in other posts.

: However, my point in this one is that "a lot of people" believe in all
: kinds of stupid, nutty, crazy, odd-ball things that have not a shred
: of proof behind them, and knowing them personally doesn't make that
: any different. So saying, "A lot of people believe and I know one.."
: is evidence of nothing at all.

: Michelle
: Flutist

Yes, but the illuminati thing is true! ;-)

Larry

"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...
HCN wrote:
"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...
HCN wrote:
wrote in message
...
perhaps these guys are quacks. I don't know.
Who?... you did not use any quotes to indicate what you are responding
to.

But Bradstreet, Wakefield and Fudenberg are all quacks. And the owner
of the whale.to website, John Scudamore, is a net-loon.
he would be a loon without the net.

Did you see his page on dealing with "black lines"?... pure comedy gold!


I think he was born he

http://tinyurl.com/q5ekx

Sometimes it does seem like he emerges out from under a large rock.