Child Support Fiasco

"Gini" wrote in message
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"Bob Whiteside" wrote

"Gini" wrote in message
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"Bob Whiteside" wrote

"Gini" wrote in message
news:gdJFi.4371$eh3.50@trndny07...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...
I live in Western New York. My ex-wife has filed for disability and
is claiming she cannot work (not for the first time). She is taking
me to court (again), petitioning that she should not have to pay
child
support. On visitation weekends she spends exorbitant sums of money
on carnivals, movies, and gifts. She lives in a beautiful home on a
large wooded lot with a pond, two new cars, etc,etc.

Do I have any recourse when she clearly has means (even thought they
may be her husbands)?

Incidentally, her last payment was $8.33. So I will naturally be
representing myself in court.

Any help (specifically where I might look for legal information or
precedent) would be greatly appreciated.

Determine the cause of the disability. If it has anything remotely
connected to her being a fit parent, ask the court to determine if
her disability interferes with her ability to work does it also
interfere with her ability to be an effective parent.
==
Get a grip, Bob.

I'm not sure I understand your comment.
.....................

I am against any plan that allows married women who don't work to get a
pass (for whatever reason) and skate on paying CS.
==
My "get a grip" was for the idea of parental fitness based on
disability.
Did you overlook the part where he wants an increase in CS because of
the
current husband's income? Huh? That's outrageous and you would agree as
well
if the CP were the mother wanting the dad to pay more based on his
current wife's income.
And, he "complains" that the mom spends too much money on the kids when
they're with her.
Sure the court can impute income for the mom but certainly not on the
basis of her husband's income.
C'mon, guys--You're giving this CP a pass!

Here is my point with more detail. Let's say her "disability" is
alcoholism, drug addiction, or some form of mental illness. Any of those
disability determination factors that could make her exempt from paying
CS can also be used to challenge her ability to parent.
==
True. Take my son--He is disabled due to bi-polar disorder. His CS has
been set
at $0. and his ex requested and received an order stipulating that his
visitation with my grandson
be in the presence of my husband. Yep. My husband, who is not a party to
the case at all and
who wasn't present at any hearings and never offered his services to
monitor my son's visitation.
My husband was mildly amused at the court's audacity :-). Anyway, my son
would never ever hurt his child and his ex
knows that. In fact, my son was the primary caregiver to his son when they
were married, but she used it against him anyway.
He is absolutely devastated that his ex took my grandson out of state and
he doesn't know where he is and he hasn't seen him in 3 years.
==

I understood the OP to be saying his former wife is taking him to court
to reduce her current CS obligation to zero because she now has a
disability and cannot work. The OP did comment on her lifestyle with her
new husband but the issue he raised was about her wanting her portion of
CS to be zero.
==
It will likely be so. That doesn't negate the fact that he thinks he
should be paid CS on
the basis of the new husband's income and he should be embarrassed at
complaining the
mom spends too much money on the kids when they are with her.
==
==

I agree with that. Two of the most emotionally devastating scenarios that
impact fathers and the CS system ignores a 1.) The NCP father pays CS
and the CP mother has a guy living with her on the lam, and 2.) The CP or
NCP mother remarries and stops working to earn money to support her own
children. Father have neither of those options.

The OP is dealing with the latter scenario and my suggestion to use the
disability against the NCP mother for reduced/supervised visitation may get
her to back off of her lawsuit. She needs to understand her attempt to pay
zero CS can very likely backfire on her.

On Sep 11, 10:01?pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:
wrote in message

Determine the cause of the disability. If it has anything remotely
connected to her being a fit parent, ask the court to determine if her
disability interferes with her ability to work does it also interfere with
her ability to be an effective parent. If the court says she can't work
because of her disability, ask the court to terminate her visitation rights
because the impact of the disability similarly affects her ability to
parent. Push at the same time to get her income imputed based on her skills
and your local economic conditions for employment.


The cause of her disability will have no bearing on her visitation. I
will address this in another post further down. In addition, they will
not input her income, also answered below.

On Sep 12, 2:44?pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:
"Gini" wrote in message

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"Bob Whiteside" wrote

"Gini" wrote in message
news:gdJFi.4371$eh3.50@trndny07...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
news:ePadna_B7PLhy3rbnZ2dnUVZ_umlnZ2d@giganews. com...

wrote in message
egroups.com...
I live in Western New York. My ex-wife has filed for disability and
is claiming she cannot work (not for the first time). She is taking
me to court (again), petitioning that she should not have to pay child
support. On visitation weekends she spends exorbitant sums of money
on carnivals, movies, and gifts. She lives in a beautiful home on a
large wooded lot with a pond, two new cars, etc,etc.

Do I have any recourse when she clearly has means (even thought they
may be her husbands)?

Incidentally, her last payment was $8.33. So I will naturally be
representing myself in court.

Any help (specifically where I might look for legal information or
precedent) would be greatly appreciated.

Determine the cause of the disability. If it has anything remotely
connected to her being a fit parent, ask the court to determine if her
disability interferes with her ability to work does it also interfere
with her ability to be an effective parent.
==
Get a grip, Bob.

I'm not sure I understand your comment.
.....................

I am against any plan that allows married women who don't work to get a
pass (for whatever reason) and skate on paying CS.
==
My "get a grip" was for the idea of parental fitness based on disability.
Did you overlook the part where he wants an increase in CS because of the
current husband's income? Huh? That's outrageous and you would agree as
well
if the CP were the mother wanting the dad to pay more based on his current
wife's income.
And, he "complains" that the mom spends too much money on the kids when
they're with her.
Sure the court can impute income for the mom but certainly not on the
basis of her husband's income.
C'mon, guys--You're giving this CP a pass!

Here is my point with more detail. Let's say her "disability" is
alcoholism, drug addiction, or some form of mental illness. Any of those
disability determination factors that could make her exempt from paying CS
can also be used to challenge her ability to parent.

I understood the OP to be saying his former wife is taking him to court to
reduce her current CS obligation to zero because she now has a disability
and cannot work. The OP did comment on her lifestyle with her new husband
but the issue he raised was about her wanting her portion of CS to be zero.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hate to burst your bubble here but alcohholism and drug addiction are
not qualifying disabilities and typically will result in a denial from
SSA for all disabilites. CS will be reduced to zero but is handled
differently, which I will answer in a reply to the OP

On Sep 11, 6:02?pm, wrote:
I live in Western New York. My ex-wife has filed for disability and
is claiming she cannot work (not for the first time). She is taking
me to court (again), petitioning that she should not have to pay child
support. On visitation weekends she spends exorbitant sums of money
on carnivals, movies, and gifts. She lives in a beautiful home on a
large wooded lot with a pond, two new cars, etc,etc.

Do I have any recourse when she clearly has means (even thought they
may be her husbands)?

Incidentally, her last payment was $8.33. So I will naturally be
representing myself in court.

Any help (specifically where I might look for legal information or
precedent) would be greatly appreciated.

GoodDad

GoodDad, this is how SSA (SSDI..not SSI) disability works.

Your ex-wifes CS will be set to zero. That is true. However, her
obligation of support does not end. When she applies for SSDI, they
will give her two amounts. Her own amount and an amount known as the
"Family benefit". The formula is quite simple but I will use $1000 as
an example.

Your exwife monthly benefit :$1000
Total family benefit: $1500
Total to her "auxliary beneficiaries": $500

Basically, she gets 2/3's and the kids get 1/3 of the amount, whatever
it is.

And auxilary are kids (and you if you were married 10+ years and have
not remarried).

The $500 is split between the auxilaries. If you have (2) kids, each
kid gets $250 a month, which you will control. In order to control it,
you have to be the "reprentative payee". She is by default but that is
changed by simply presenting your custody court order to the nearest
SSA office. They will then change YOU to the payee and the checks go
directly to you.

This does NOT happen with SSI, but SSI is a needs based program that
based on your description, she does not come close to qualifying for.
To qualify for SSDI, she just needs the required work credits.

If you have not been receiving CS, this is awesome news for you if she
gets approved. BUT YOU NEED TO MAKE YOURSELF THE REPRESENTATIVE PAYEE.
Also, you need to stipulate in a CS agreement the kids get the SSDI
too (but they will anyway), just so she doesnt play games, espcially
with the retro payment, which can be large. You also need to stipulate
you are the payee. This is all very common and the judge will just
rubber stamp it. If she gives you a hard time, he will rubber stamp it
anyway. And SSA will also, so dont be shy about doing it. Happens
every day.

Keep in mind, it is VERY difficult to get approved. VERY. And it takes
a lot of people a LONG time.

No one on SSDI pays CS, male or female. Well, they do, but it comes
from the family benefit. The reason for this is SSDI is based on
earnings history, just as CS is and SSA specifically creates the
family benefit so kids are taken care of.

"Relayer" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 12, 2:44?pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:
"Gini" wrote in message

news:yrWFi.6032$yf3.6001@trndny06...







"Bob Whiteside" wrote

"Gini" wrote in message
news:gdJFi.4371$eh3.50@trndny07...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
news:ePadna_B7PLhy3rbnZ2dnUVZ_umlnZ2d@giganews. com...

wrote in message
egroups.com...
I live in Western New York. My ex-wife has filed for disability and
is claiming she cannot work (not for the first time). She is
taking
me to court (again), petitioning that she should not have to pay
child
support. On visitation weekends she spends exorbitant sums of
money
on carnivals, movies, and gifts. She lives in a beautiful home on
a
large wooded lot with a pond, two new cars, etc,etc.

Do I have any recourse when she clearly has means (even thought
they
may be her husbands)?

Incidentally, her last payment was $8.33. So I will naturally be
representing myself in court.

Any help (specifically where I might look for legal information or
precedent) would be greatly appreciated.

Determine the cause of the disability. If it has anything remotely
connected to her being a fit parent, ask the court to determine if
her
disability interferes with her ability to work does it also
interfere
with her ability to be an effective parent.
==
Get a grip, Bob.

I'm not sure I understand your comment.
.....................

I am against any plan that allows married women who don't work to get
a
pass (for whatever reason) and skate on paying CS.
==
My "get a grip" was for the idea of parental fitness based on
disability.
Did you overlook the part where he wants an increase in CS because of
the
current husband's income? Huh? That's outrageous and you would agree as
well
if the CP were the mother wanting the dad to pay more based on his
current
wife's income.
And, he "complains" that the mom spends too much money on the kids when
they're with her.
Sure the court can impute income for the mom but certainly not on the
basis of her husband's income.
C'mon, guys--You're giving this CP a pass!

Here is my point with more detail. Let's say her "disability" is
alcoholism, drug addiction, or some form of mental illness. Any of those
disability determination factors that could make her exempt from paying
CS
can also be used to challenge her ability to parent.

I understood the OP to be saying his former wife is taking him to court
to
reduce her current CS obligation to zero because she now has a disability
and cannot work. The OP did comment on her lifestyle with her new
husband
but the issue he raised was about her wanting her portion of CS to be
zero.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hate to burst your bubble here but alcohholism and drug addiction are
not qualifying disabilities and typically will result in a denial from
SSA for all disabilites. CS will be reduced to zero but is handled
differently, which I will answer in a reply to the OP

The government plays verbal games with their definitions of disabilities and
alcoholism/drug addictions. They say alcoholism and drug abuse are not
disabilities by themselves, but they also say people with alcoholism and
drug abuse issues have an underlying disability that qualifies them for
benefits. IOW - Alcoholism is not a disability but depression which is
related to alcoholism is a disability. Likewise, drug abuse is not a
disability but drug abuse is caused by a personality disorder which is a
disability.

On Sep 12, 9:25?pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:
"Relayer" wrote in message

oups.com...





On Sep 12, 2:44?pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:
"Gini" wrote in message

news:yrWFi.6032$yf3.6001@trndny06...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote

"Gini" wrote in message
news:gdJFi.4371$eh3.50@trndny07...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
news:ePadna_B7PLhy3rbnZ2dnUVZ_umlnZ2d@giganews. com...

wrote in message
egroups.com...
I live in Western New York. My ex-wife has filed for disability and
is claiming she cannot work (not for the first time). She is
taking
me to court (again), petitioning that she should not have to pay
child
support. On visitation weekends she spends exorbitant sums of
money
on carnivals, movies, and gifts. She lives in a beautiful home on
a
large wooded lot with a pond, two new cars, etc,etc.

Do I have any recourse when she clearly has means (even thought
they
may be her husbands)?

Incidentally, her last payment was $8.33. So I will naturally be
representing myself in court.

Any help (specifically where I might look for legal information or
precedent) would be greatly appreciated.

Determine the cause of the disability. If it has anything remotely
connected to her being a fit parent, ask the court to determine if
her
disability interferes with her ability to work does it also
interfere
with her ability to be an effective parent.
==
Get a grip, Bob.

I'm not sure I understand your comment.
.....................

I am against any plan that allows married women who don't work to get
a
pass (for whatever reason) and skate on paying CS.
==
My "get a grip" was for the idea of parental fitness based on
disability.
Did you overlook the part where he wants an increase in CS because of
the
current husband's income? Huh? That's outrageous and you would agree as
well
if the CP were the mother wanting the dad to pay more based on his
current
wife's income.
And, he "complains" that the mom spends too much money on the kids when
they're with her.
Sure the court can impute income for the mom but certainly not on the
basis of her husband's income.
C'mon, guys--You're giving this CP a pass!

Here is my point with more detail. Let's say her "disability" is
alcoholism, drug addiction, or some form of mental illness. Any of those
disability determination factors that could make her exempt from paying
CS
can also be used to challenge her ability to parent.

I understood the OP to be saying his former wife is taking him to court
to
reduce her current CS obligation to zero because she now has a disability
and cannot work. The OP did comment on her lifestyle with her new
husband
but the issue he raised was about her wanting her portion of CS to be
zero.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hate to burst your bubble here but alcohholism and drug addiction are
not qualifying disabilities and typically will result in a denial from
SSA for all disabilites. CS will be reduced to zero but is handled
differently, which I will answer in a reply to the OP

The government plays verbal games with their definitions of disabilities and
alcoholism/drug addictions. They say alcoholism and drug abuse are not
disabilities by themselves, but they also say people with alcoholism and
drug abuse issues have an underlying disability that qualifies them for
benefits. IOW - Alcoholism is not a disability but depression which is
related to alcoholism is a disability. Likewise, drug abuse is not a
disability but drug abuse is caused by a personality disorder which is a
disability.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Are you saying the governement plays word games?
LOL...hehe..uh..ya...I think so..

Whcih comes first the chicken or the egg. The alcoholism or the
depression..I know..

What I meant was alcoholism in itself is not a qualifying disability
and will result in denial of future claims..but true, a lot of
depressed people turn to drugs or alcohol..

Howwever, any mental illness (such as anxiety or depression) is still
VERY difficult to get approved in any case. If it was easy, everyone
paying CS would be approved immediately because I cant think of
anything that causes more depression or anxiety..

On Sep 12, 9:25?pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:
"Relayer" wrote in message

oups.com...





On Sep 12, 2:44?pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:
"Gini" wrote in message

news:yrWFi.6032$yf3.6001@trndny06...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote

"Gini" wrote in message
news:gdJFi.4371$eh3.50@trndny07...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
news:ePadna_B7PLhy3rbnZ2dnUVZ_umlnZ2d@giganews. com...

wrote in message
egroups.com...
I live in Western New York. My ex-wife has filed for disability and
is claiming she cannot work (not for the first time). She is
taking
me to court (again), petitioning that she should not have to pay
child
support. On visitation weekends she spends exorbitant sums of
money
on carnivals, movies, and gifts. She lives in a beautiful home on
a
large wooded lot with a pond, two new cars, etc,etc.

Do I have any recourse when she clearly has means (even thought
they
may be her husbands)?

Incidentally, her last payment was $8.33. So I will naturally be
representing myself in court.

Any help (specifically where I might look for legal information or
precedent) would be greatly appreciated.

Determine the cause of the disability. If it has anything remotely
connected to her being a fit parent, ask the court to determine if
her
disability interferes with her ability to work does it also
interfere
with her ability to be an effective parent.
==
Get a grip, Bob.

I'm not sure I understand your comment.
.....................

I am against any plan that allows married women who don't work to get
a
pass (for whatever reason) and skate on paying CS.
==
My "get a grip" was for the idea of parental fitness based on
disability.
Did you overlook the part where he wants an increase in CS because of
the
current husband's income? Huh? That's outrageous and you would agree as
well
if the CP were the mother wanting the dad to pay more based on his
current
wife's income.
And, he "complains" that the mom spends too much money on the kids when
they're with her.
Sure the court can impute income for the mom but certainly not on the
basis of her husband's income.
C'mon, guys--You're giving this CP a pass!

Here is my point with more detail. Let's say her "disability" is
alcoholism, drug addiction, or some form of mental illness. Any of those
disability determination factors that could make her exempt from paying
CS
can also be used to challenge her ability to parent.

I understood the OP to be saying his former wife is taking him to court
to
reduce her current CS obligation to zero because she now has a disability
and cannot work. The OP did comment on her lifestyle with her new
husband
but the issue he raised was about her wanting her portion of CS to be
zero.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hate to burst your bubble here but alcohholism and drug addiction are
not qualifying disabilities and typically will result in a denial from
SSA for all disabilites. CS will be reduced to zero but is handled
differently, which I will answer in a reply to the OP

The government plays verbal games with their definitions of disabilities and
alcoholism/drug addictions. They say alcoholism and drug abuse are not
disabilities by themselves, but they also say people with alcoholism and
drug abuse issues have an underlying disability that qualifies them for
benefits. IOW - Alcoholism is not a disability but depression which is
related to alcoholism is a disability. Likewise, drug abuse is not a
disability but drug abuse is caused by a personality disorder which is a
disability.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

btw, depression is not the cause of alcoholism nor is a personaility
disorder the cause of drug addiction. Just an FYI.

"Relayer" wrote in

No one on SSDI pays CS, male or female. Well, they do, but it comes
from the family benefit. The reason for this is SSDI is based on
earnings history, just as CS is and SSA specifically creates the
family benefit so kids are taken care of.


So in the end, we all end up paying for their kids anyway!

On Sep 13, 11:05?am, "DB" wrote:
"Relayer" wrote in

No one on SSDI pays CS, male or female. Well, they do, but it comes
from the family benefit. The reason for this is SSDI is based on
earnings history, just as CS is and SSA specifically creates the
family benefit so kids are taken care of.

So in the end, we all end up paying for their kids anyway!

No. SSDI is an insurance program and not welfare in the least. You pay
a premium and if you make a claim, it is paid if approved. Everyone
who pays into the system has the insurance (you do also and might need
it someday).

SSI on the other hand IS a welfare based system paid out of tax payer
dollars and therefor there is no CS family benefit.

On Sep 12, 2:43 pm, "Gini" wrote:
"Bob Whiteside" wrote



"Gini" wrote in message
news:gdJFi.4371$eh3.50@trndny07...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
om...

wrote in message
groups.com...
I live in Western New York. My ex-wife has filed for disability and
is claiming she cannot work (not for the first time). She is taking
me to court (again), petitioning that she should not have to pay child
support. On visitation weekends she spends exorbitant sums of money
on carnivals, movies, and gifts. She lives in a beautiful home on a
large wooded lot with a pond, two new cars, etc,etc.

Do I have any recourse when she clearly has means (even thought they
may be her husbands)?

Incidentally, her last payment was $8.33. So I will naturally be
representing myself in court.

Any help (specifically where I might look for legal information or
precedent) would be greatly appreciated.

Determine the cause of the disability. If it has anything remotely
connected to her being a fit parent, ask the court to determine if her
disability interferes with her ability to work does it also interfere
with her ability to be an effective parent.
==
Get a grip, Bob.

I'm not sure I understand your comment.

.....................

I am against any plan that allows married women who don't work to get a
pass (for whatever reason) and skate on paying CS.

==
My "get a grip" was for the idea of parental fitness based on disability.
Did you overlook the part where he wants an increase in CS because of the
current husband's income? Huh? That's outrageous and you would agree as well
if the CP were the mother wanting the dad to pay more based on his current
wife's income.
And, he "complains" that the mom spends too much money on the kids when
they're with her.
Sure the court can impute income for the mom but certainly not on the basis
of her husband's income.
C'mon, guys--You're giving this CP a pass!

Perhaps I should have spent more time explaining the situation
(jeez...you guys are tough). Actually, I earn in excess of
$100,000.00 a year, probably double what my ex-wife or her husband
pull down in a year. That's not arrogance...just a fact. The issue
at hand is complex. When I was still married, I came home one day to
find out that I was losing my house and that all of my credit cards
had been maxed out. Even worse, my ex had been abusing prescription
meds and was leaving our two children unattended for large blocks of
time. Turns out the neighbors were aware, but didn't want to intrude
(except, of course, for the time that both children were found out in
the snow in the diapers..mom inside passed out...no one bothered to
share this with dad). Since my subsequent bankruptcy, 10 years of
rebuilding my credit, and raising two kids, my ex has been picked up
for writing bad checks, fraud, you name it. Meanwhile, she takes us to
court every couple of years, asking for things she never follows up on
and costing me, and more importantly my children, thousands of
dollars. She also has two different personal injury cases pending
against two different hapless parties, for whatever she decided they
did wrong (I think one was a slippery sidewalk).

Before my income was more substantial, I took her to court for
support. She showed up faking disability and the judge screamed at
her and told her to stop avoiding her responsibilities. Then as now,
she said she had no income. My lawyer contended, and the judge
agreed, that she clearly had money to spend and should spend it on
kids...job or no job.

Meanwhile, my kids go to visitation in a home where they watch PG-13
and R movies (they are 11 and 12 currently), listen to adults swear
and tell inappropriate jokes, and chain smoke every hour of the day.
This is in violation of a court order, but the court has been
reluctant to get tough with them. My son has asthma...go figure the
justice system.

My desire to have her pay is one of principal. No one should get away
with the kind of crap she does, and then deny her kids what they are
entitled. Isn't that what child support is for? Every penny she
sends goes into a college savings account. It's been 10 years and
they each only have around $500.00 total.

Thanks for responding to my original post.

GoodDad