Little boys......

As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several
occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play
dress-up. One day my step daughter arrived to pick him up and he had
little pony tails and baretts all over his head. She asked what is
that? Mari explained my grandaughter wanted these things in her hair
and he asked to have them too so she put them in. My step daughter says
oh don't let his father see this. We laughed and said it is innocent
play. The next day he arrived with a crew cut!

Then the real problems began when my granddaugher got a vanity set with
play lipstick and rouge, and earings and even a little purple tu-tu,
ballerina slippers and Tiara . He wants to wear these things and I
really myself feel it is harmless, but then I have never had a boy to
raise and never have been confronted with this before. I know his
mother does not want him to play this way , it is not my place to allow
something she is against and I do not know how to explain this to a
three year old. Mind you it is not fair to allow my grandaughter this
and say no to him? I have tried putting the stuff away but if my
grandaughter asks for it , I feel it is something she should not be
denied. Then there are the times he finds her dresses and puts them on
himself. Please mothers and fathers of boys enlighten me! What should I
or can I do to do the right thing? I myself have no feelings that a
three year old boy has any thoughts of sexual orientation or that
innocent play at this age will turn him into a homosexual. I know as a
fact that this little guy has been taught to not like the color pink,
he refuses to eat or drink out of anything pink or play with anything
pink including pink clothing.
I am upset that people would be so silly to do such a thing to a young
child. I know his Nanny Gayle would have a lot to say to her daughter,
I would be upset to have them pull him away from me if I spoke my mind
about how I feel.

Bev

"Bev" wrote in message
oups.com...
As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several
occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play
dress-up. One day my step daughter arrived to pick him up and he had
little pony tails and baretts all over his head. She asked what is
that? Mari explained my grandaughter wanted these things in her hair
and he asked to have them too so she put them in. My step daughter says
oh don't let his father see this. We laughed and said it is innocent
play. The next day he arrived with a crew cut!

---SNIP---

I'm no expert, but what I would try is to redirect the lad to what might be
considered "appropriate play." When the girl is playing with her "girl toys"
pull out a truck or something. Make some noises with it - boys like to play
with things that they can make noise with! Vroom-vroom!! I think redirection
is the key....

-=RaOuL=-

"Bev" wrote in message
oups.com...
As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several
occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play
dress-up. One day my step daughter arrived to pick him up and he had
little pony tails and baretts all over his head. She asked what is
that? Mari explained my grandaughter wanted these things in her hair
and he asked to have them too so she put them in. My step daughter says
oh don't let his father see this. We laughed and said it is innocent
play. The next day he arrived with a crew cut!

Then the real problems began when my granddaugher got a vanity set with
play lipstick and rouge, and earings and even a little purple tu-tu,
ballerina slippers and Tiara . He wants to wear these things and I
really myself feel it is harmless, but then I have never had a boy to
raise and never have been confronted with this before.

I really don't think there's much of a difference at this age in raising
boys or girls. I also see no harm in a little boy playing dress up, just as
I see no harm in a little girl playing with trucks and GI Joes.

I know his
mother does not want him to play this way , it is not my place to allow
something she is against and I do not know how to explain this to a
three year old. Mind you it is not fair to allow my grandaughter this
and say no to him? I have tried putting the stuff away but if my
grandaughter asks for it , I feel it is something she should not be
denied.

As far as I'm concerned, playing is playing, but yes, I see your point of
not wanting to go against what Mom says, in the place of Grandma. There's
really not much you can do to explain this to a 3 year old. Your
granddaughter shouldn't be denied what is hers to play with, but how can you
say yes to her but not to your grandson? Do you have "boy" toys around?
Would it be possible to take both kids shopping, or just your grandson one
day, and have him pick out a special toy that he really wants that he can
keep at your house to play with? Maybe taking both kids out to pick out a
toy that they can both play with together that stays at Grandmas could be an
idea... I don't know what... Just something like a small train set,
basketball and net set, maybe even some cars or trucks of some sort. Find
something that both can play together.

Then there are the times he finds her dresses and puts them on
himself.

Meh. I actually remember when I was about 8 years old, I dressed my little
brothers both up in my dresses. That would have made my brothers about 5
and 2, and I put their hair in piggies and bows and they looked so
beautiful. My mom's eyes popped right out of her head and she nearly busted
a gut laughing and even ran to get the camera. I do remember them agreeing
to it, and they even had a good laugh about it. Neither has turned gay
today because I made them all pretty when they were younger. Even today, my
son will sit with me in the bathroom while I do my hair or something. He
wanted his nails painted one day, so I bring out the nail polish and I
painted his nails the colors he wanted - purple and red and just one finger
blue. When he was about 2 or so, I put him in a set of underwear that I
didn't care much for that my grandma bought - because it was a good price -
that would never fit her in a million years... So off I go with B to the
back room, put on a floral bra and matching panties over his clothes and
send him out to see Baba, Grandma and Uncle. My cousin took a picture of
it, and we all had a good laugh about it. Last year for B's birthday, my
cousin took that picture and made a birthday card for B with that picture on
it. Again, we all had a pretty good laugh.
For my SON'S first Christmas, I bought him a little doll. It was a little
boy doll, and the only person who had a problem with it was my uncle, one of
my brothers and my dad didn't care much for it, but you know what? Bran is
now so good with his baby sister that it amazes me. He's very gentle and
caring and loving, and yet my mom's friend has a son and younger daughter
just a bit older than B and Amie, and the boy is so very, very mean to his
baby sister. I always told Bran that the doll was like a baby... You have
to be very gentle with it, like you would be with a baby.

Please mothers and fathers of boys enlighten me! What should I
or can I do to do the right thing? I myself have no feelings that a
three year old boy has any thoughts of sexual orientation or that
innocent play at this age will turn him into a homosexual. I know as a
fact that this little guy has been taught to not like the color pink,
he refuses to eat or drink out of anything pink or play with anything
pink including pink clothing.

Nothing 'turns' someone into a homosexual. It has nothing at all to do with
the way a child is or was raised. You cannot just decide you'd like to be
gay or not, it's something that isn't controlled, AFAIC, and the only thing,
I believe, that will come out of making a little boy despise pink, dolls,
whatever it may be, is that they will probably continue this learned
behaviour through their childhood and carry it with them as adults. I
believe that it could cause a child to believe it is alright to hate, even
if it is the color pink or a Barbie.
I believe 'Kate suggested above something about trying to let them play
whatever they want early in the day and have time to distract him with
something else for when Mom gets home. You're NOT hurting him by allowing
him to express himself through play. Other than actions and play, there's
really not many other ways a child knows how to express themselves at that
age. They cannot and do not pick up a pen and write their feelings down.
They do not write beautiful poems and make wonderful books about their
feelings and emotions. Play is a way that a child can express themselves
freely and openly while learning and having fun.

I am upset that people would be so silly to do such a thing to a young
child. I know his Nanny Gayle would have a lot to say to her daughter,
I would be upset to have them pull him away from me if I spoke my mind
about how I feel.

Bev

I agree. Silly really isn't the word I would have used, but it works just
fine! Allowing both children to play - be it your grandson playing with
the vanity set or your granddaughter playing with the Tonka trucks, there
really is no harm at all in that. You might harm a child more by denying
what they want when there really is no reason to say no. It's not like you
are hurting him or doing something wrong in any way. I really do like
'Kate's suggestion about starting the day off early and letting them play
dress-up, or whatever it may be... Maybe you could end the day before Mom
comes to get him by sitting both children down at the table to draw and
color... Maybe that could be an idea - some sort of art or craft set for
both grandchildren... Let them paint and color and draw and glue sparkles on
paper at the table half an hour or so before Mom's expected... Then he'll
either be in the process of making a ginormous mess on your kitchen table
with glue and glitter and crayons, or Mom will walk in to see him helping
you clean up the mess he just finished making... Then he'll have something
to give to you or Mom for the fridge!

I really have no other suggestions right now... I've done everything with my
son that would have your grandson's dad doing backflips, and I don't see
anything wrong with it at all! They're kids! They love to play, and
fantasy is just one of the many ways children develop. Good luck and
hopefully you can figure something out!

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?

As the mother of a boy, I can tell you - it's perfectly normal to want to
join in the fun, too.

I agree with Kate - he isn't gay, he's not a transvestite, and he isn't
going to come to any harm.

Whoever is paranoid about the color pink should be seeking their own
therapy, if you want my opinion.

Actors wear make up routinely - even the male ones!

Let him play - I cherish the photos I have when my son did the same thing -
looked like a young Liza Minelli.


"Bev" wrote in message
oups.com...
As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several
occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play
dress-up. One day my step daughter arrived to pick him up and he had
little pony tails and baretts all over his head. She asked what is
that? Mari explained my grandaughter wanted these things in her hair
and he asked to have them too so she put them in. My step daughter says
oh don't let his father see this. We laughed and said it is innocent
play. The next day he arrived with a crew cut!

Then the real problems began when my granddaugher got a vanity set with
play lipstick and rouge, and earings and even a little purple tu-tu,
ballerina slippers and Tiara . He wants to wear these things and I
really myself feel it is harmless, but then I have never had a boy to
raise and never have been confronted with this before. I know his
mother does not want him to play this way , it is not my place to allow
something she is against and I do not know how to explain this to a
three year old. Mind you it is not fair to allow my grandaughter this
and say no to him? I have tried putting the stuff away but if my
grandaughter asks for it , I feel it is something she should not be
denied. Then there are the times he finds her dresses and puts them on
himself. Please mothers and fathers of boys enlighten me! What should I
or can I do to do the right thing? I myself have no feelings that a
three year old boy has any thoughts of sexual orientation or that
innocent play at this age will turn him into a homosexual. I know as a
fact that this little guy has been taught to not like the color pink,
he refuses to eat or drink out of anything pink or play with anything
pink including pink clothing.
I am upset that people would be so silly to do such a thing to a young
child. I know his Nanny Gayle would have a lot to say to her daughter,
I would be upset to have them pull him away from me if I spoke my mind
about how I feel.

Bev

"Bev" wrote in message
oups.com...
As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several
occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play
dress-up. One day my step daughter arrived to pick him up and he had
little pony tails and baretts all over his head. She asked what is
that? Mari explained my grandaughter wanted these things in her hair
and he asked to have them too so she put them in. My step daughter says
oh don't let his father see this. We laughed and said it is innocent
play. The next day he arrived with a crew cut!

Then the real problems began when my granddaugher got a vanity set with
play lipstick and rouge, and earings and even a little purple tu-tu,
ballerina slippers and Tiara . He wants to wear these things and I
really myself feel it is harmless, but then I have never had a boy to
raise and never have been confronted with this before. I know his
mother does not want him to play this way , it is not my place to allow
something she is against and I do not know how to explain this to a
three year old. Mind you it is not fair to allow my grandaughter this
and say no to him? I have tried putting the stuff away but if my
grandaughter asks for it , I feel it is something she should not be
denied. Then there are the times he finds her dresses and puts them on
himself. Please mothers and fathers of boys enlighten me! What should I
or can I do to do the right thing? I myself have no feelings that a
three year old boy has any thoughts of sexual orientation or that
innocent play at this age will turn him into a homosexual. I know as a
fact that this little guy has been taught to not like the color pink,
he refuses to eat or drink out of anything pink or play with anything
pink including pink clothing.
I am upset that people would be so silly to do such a thing to a young
child. I know his Nanny Gayle would have a lot to say to her daughter,
I would be upset to have them pull him away from me if I spoke my mind
about how I feel.

Bev


Everyone says "He isn't gay or a trans...." So what if he would be???

But they are right, he is to young to know the difference and just wants to
play.

Why does the parents want to put gender roles into his life? Will they also
teach him its not manly to cry? To miss his mommy? That he should beat up
other boys??

Grrr. There was an excellent book I read about boys and men and how they are
raised. Damn if I can't remember what it is called but when it comes to me,
I will post it.

Tiff

'Kate wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 00:09:38 GMT, "Tiffany" the
following was posted in blue dry erase marker:



Everyone says "He isn't gay or a trans...." So what if he would be???

The parents would blame Bev. Judging by the haircut and rules about the
color pink and the hairdo, the parents are not thrilled with the idea of
their son being homosexual, etc. The parents are wack. :-)

Yea they are wack, I am at a loss with this, maybe accepting your mom
was a lesbian is easier.for my step daughter than to accept her son
would be gay. This is pretty common actually....for some odd ball
reason many people especially men have no problem with lesbians but gay
men flip them out........

Why does the parents want to put gender roles into his life? Will they also
teach him its not manly to cry? To miss his mommy? That he should beat up
other boys??

Probably so. And he'll turn into a serial killer full of resentment for
his parents but at least he won't be homosexual.

Who knew there were parents like that still.

......he kicks animals, and needs to be watched closely with them. He is
violent and very rough in play as well. When he first came to us we
almost said "sorry" and decided that maybe what really was best for him
was if we worked with him.He has been from babysitter to babysitter
since he was an infant. I thought maybe he had security issues or maybe
out of wack with no set schedule or consistency. He has come a long way
since when we first got him and I know most of his behaviours are
taught. There are two people in his household that punch, kick and beat
the dogs, he violently goes after his sister 10 if she says no to him
or takes something away he should not have. We had a very hard time
when this all began, to a point I did discuss his violent and
belligerant behavior. He would totally ignore instruction . His mother
said to smack his butt. We did time out we talked and explained we
removed him from the rest of the activity to get his attention and
finally I spent two days smacking his butt when nothing else worked and
I have not had to smack his butt since ! It worked...I hated it but it
worked. He is changing nicely with us and I know he needs what he is
getting with us, he has a consistent routine and has learned what his
behavior needs to be here. His father is a functioning alcoholic and i
know he has puched walls and kicked in the front door at least twice
and that my other two older grandkids (14 and 10) are afraid of him "he
is not their dad" This has been going on a very long time and I have
discussed this with Gayle's daughter and she says "he is not an
alcoholic" he just drinks a little too much sometimes"........They are
getting married next year I know the kids are unhappy and all I can do
is have them to my place as often as possible to give them a safe place
to be and a break from "HOME" It is really sad. What stinks is that I
know if I make to big a wave here the kids will be pulled away from me,
I do not know if I have any legal rights with this and I really just
want to be a part of their lives like I should be.
Bev
'Kate

Tiffany wrote:

Everyone says "He isn't gay or a trans...." So what if he would be???

I certainly am not predjudice! I believe what everyone is meaning is
that this dress up play is not indicating that the little guy will turn
out to be.

But they are right, he is to young to know the difference and just wants to
play.

absolutely what I feel , I am torn by permitting it knowing his parents
do not approve.

Why does the parents want to put gender roles into his life? Will they also
teach him its not manly to cry? To miss his mommy? That he should beat up
other boys??

unfortunately I think you have hit it on the head there.

Grrr. There was an excellent book I read about boys and men and how they are
raised. Damn if I can't remember what it is called but when it comes to me,
I will post it.

Thank you Tiff
Bev
Tiff

Moon Shyne wrote:
As the mother of a boy, I can tell you - it's perfectly normal to want to
join in the fun, too.

I didn't think making a big deal out of it was the right thing for his
mom and dad to do.

I agree with Kate - he isn't gay, he's not a transvestite, and he isn't
going to come to any harm.

It's certainly not that I think that this type of play could possibly
direct a childs sexual orientation.

Whoever is paranoid about the color pink should be seeking their own
therapy, if you want my opinion.

I totally agree with you , I was shocked the day I set up the table
with bowls and cups for breakfast and he sat there and would not say
anything or eat his cereal . When I asked him why he wasn't eating he
said I dont like pink ! I never thought about it we have a set of pink
bowls and cups that are plastic for the baby. Ask him why he does not
like pink and he has no answer . All I said was well pink is a nice
color I like it but if you dont like it that is o.k. and I gave him
another bowl.

Actors wear make up routinely - even the male ones!

yep

Let him play - I cherish the photos I have when my son did the same thing -
looked like a young Liza Minelli.


I have and will continue to let him play, I just really wish I didn't
have to fear his parents coming and catching it.

Bev

xkatx wrote:

I really don't think there's much of a difference at this age in raising
boys or girls. I also see no harm in a little boy playing dress up, just as
I see no harm in a little girl playing with trucks and GI Joes.

I agree with you totally.


As far as I'm concerned, playing is playing, but yes, I see your point of
not wanting to go against what Mom says, in the place of Grandma. There's
really not much you can do to explain this to a 3 year old. Your
granddaughter shouldn't be denied what is hers to play with, but how can you
say yes to her but not to your grandson?

exactly what I feel, I refuse to be unfair!

Do you have "boy" toys around?

Hell no! I am a lesbian rofl! ...sorry it was just "there" grin

Yes trucks motorcycles action figures basketball hoop we have bought
these items for my grand daughter as well and he has brought over some
of his!

Meh. I actually remember when I was about 8 years old, I dressed my little
brothers both up in my dresses. That would have made my brothers about 5
and 2, and I put their hair in piggies and bows and they looked so
beautiful. My mom's eyes popped right out of her head and she nearly busted
a gut laughing and even ran to get the camera. I do remember them agreeing
to it, and they even had a good laugh about it. Neither has turned gay
today because I made them all pretty when they were younger. Even today, my
son will sit with me in the bathroom while I do my hair or something. He
wanted his nails painted one day, so I bring out the nail polish and I
painted his nails the colors he wanted - purple and red and just one finger
blue. When he was about 2 or so, I put him in a set of underwear that I
didn't care much for that my grandma bought - because it was a good price -
that would never fit her in a million years... So off I go with B to the
back room, put on a floral bra and matching panties over his clothes and
send him out to see Baba, Grandma and Uncle. My cousin took a picture of
it, and we all had a good laugh about it. Last year for B's birthday, my
cousin took that picture and made a birthday card for B with that picture on
it. Again, we all had a pretty good laugh.
For my SON'S first Christmas, I bought him a little doll. It was a little
boy doll, and the only person who had a problem with it was my uncle, one of
my brothers and my dad didn't care much for it, but you know what? Bran is
now so good with his baby sister that it amazes me. He's very gentle and
caring and loving, and yet my mom's friend has a son and younger daughter
just a bit older than B and Amie, and the boy is so very, very mean to his
baby sister. I always told Bran that the doll was like a baby... You have
to be very gentle with it, like you would be with a baby.


I agree that introducing a baby doll to a young boy child will develop
a nurturing that is important for boys to learn. Why shouldn't boys
learn how to handle and nurture a baby ?

Nothing 'turns' someone into a homosexual. It has nothing at all to do with
the way a child is or was raised. You cannot just decide you'd like to be
gay or not, it's something that isn't controlled, AFAIC, and the only thing,
I believe, that will come out of making a little boy despise pink, dolls,
whatever it may be, is that they will probably continue this learned
behaviour through their childhood and carry it with them as adults. I
believe that it could cause a child to believe it is alright to hate, even
if it is the color pink or a Barbie.

Yea, I agree, It is absurd to teach young children to dislike anything.
They are being denied thier own free choice, and in some cases being
taught to be predjudiced.

I believe 'Kate suggested above something about trying to let them play
whatever they want early in the day and have time to distract him with
something else for when Mom gets home. You're NOT hurting him by allowing
him to express himself through play. Other than actions and play, there's
really not many other ways a child knows how to express themselves at that
age. They cannot and do not pick up a pen and write their feelings down.
They do not write beautiful poems and make wonderful books about their
feelings and emotions. Play is a way that a child can express themselves
freely and openly while learning and having fun.

Yea It makes sense to allow the play, I guess, but even my 2 yr. old
grand daughter tells all about what she does throughout a day. He is
gonna tell! LOL! Oh well ! Oh boy the messes ! Believe me we are no
strangers to that!

I am upset that people would be so silly to do such a thing to a young
child. I know his Nanny Gayle would have a lot to say to her daughter,
I would be upset to have them pull him away from me if I spoke my mind
about how I feel.

Bev

I agree. Silly really isn't the word I would have used, but it works just
fine! Allowing both children to play - be it your grandson playing with
the vanity set or your granddaughter playing with the Tonka trucks, there
really is no harm at all in that.

Silly is not the words I really wanted to use ! We have a very wide
assortment of boys and girls toys and "unisex" if you will, as well .
It is a shame that anyone would be so damn stupid about this with
children so young.
Bev

'Kate wrote:
On 31 Dec 2005 09:27:51 -0800, "Bev" the
following was posted in blue dry erase marker:


The parents are overreacting. The boy is 3, not 13. It does not cause
gayness or transvestitism. It won't affect his masculine identity
development. Boys grow up to be manly men despite our best efforts to
socialize them (joke). :-)

Thats what I thought, and the strange thing is is that I see more
attention is put on a little boy playing with dolls or girlie toys but
little girls get away with the trucks and basketballs without much
attention?!?!?!

He barely knows he's a "boy" at this point... and he won't remember
dressing up when he's older unless someone takes a picture to embarrass
him with later.

Mari thinks we should take the picture and give it to his parents LOL!
I know the trouble that will cause and I will neve see him
again.........


Here's something you may be able to use to calm the parents down:

Children realize that they are male or female and are aware of
the gender of others by the age of three. However, at these ages
they still do not understand that people cannot change genders
the way they can change their clothes, names, or behavior.
Kohlberg theorized that children do not learn to behave in
gender-appropriate ways until they understand that gender is
permanent, which occurs at about the age of seven. At this point
they start modeling the behavior of members of their own sex.

Try taking out the makeup and dress up stuff earlier in the visit so
that you have time to get him cleaned up. 3 year olds get bored pretty
quickly and that'll get that over with. And he might not like the
cleaning up afterward.

I printed that out Kate thanks! I think I will do just that...early on
with the dress up and maybe things will feel more comfortable for
me...I really don't want to have a confrontation .
The responses that I did receive pretty much reflects how I feel about
this. Didn't hear much from the male/daddy side of this though? Guys
any thoughts on this?
Bev
'Kate