how do I limit the amount of violence my kids are exposed to?

On 02 Dec 2004 13:16:11 GMT, oaway (Joelle) wrote:

my son has been
targeted by several bullies. He has some issues and when triggered, he can
go off into a violent fit of screaming, scratching, biting, punching,
cursing, growling, headbanging, rolling, slapping, spitting, etc. I haven't

Are you familiar with Asperger's Syndrome? I'd check it out and have him
evaluated. This is a high functioning form of autism. Kids verbally
intellegent, but don't understand social cues. Are often targeted by bullies
and hyper sensative to stress and often have emotional outbursts.

It's can easily be missed by counselors if they aren't looking for it.

http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/

I agree with Joelle that Asperger's is one thing that causes really
major social challenges for kids, and that it needs to be diagnosed
and effectively managed as early as possible. That said, people with
Aspberger's can do very well once they get out of adolesence. There're
plenty of people who believe the world's most famous person who almost
certainly has Asperger's is Bill Gates. There's also a condition on
the Autism Spectrum, even milder than Asperger's, but still creating
real difficulties for kids, called Nonverbal Learing Disability. I'd
encourage you to take a look at that, as well.

That said, there are a number of other conditions and situations that
will result in the kind of behaviour described. It goes without saying
that the child should probably have a full medical, psychoeducational
and probably psychiatric workup to make sure nothing is missed. Even
then, going with your gut as a parent is often the best thing to do
in the face of conflicting professional advice.

Good luck!

Cele

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 16:03:13 GMT, "V" wrote:


"xkatx" wrote in message
...

I think V was meaning that her son was misdiagnosed because HIS main symptom
was what she mentioned ("The main symptom is 'hand flapping' and lack of
social skills and inability to read other's emotions, like mad or sad."),
which leads to the misdiagnosing of Aspberger's ("My son was diagnosed with
Aspberger's about a year or so ago.
I think, personally, it is a misdiagnosis.")
I could be wrong, though...


I think it is a misdiagnosis, because he is more socially adept than most
children with the condition. The hand flapping, though, is not as much of a
routine as funky noises. He was also diagnosed with OCD. That is a definate
right on the money diagnosis.

Has Tourette's been considered? It is not uncommonly comorbid with
OCD, as they're both impulse control disorders.

He is very, very ritualistic, and compulsive
about things like smells, germs, and for a while, he had a obsession with
pencils. He would pick up pencils everywhere, and anywhere. He had over 100 in
his back pack and hid in his room before I figured it out. He just loved to
"collect" them. All his little obsessions usually fade out and are replaced
with a new one. The information overload is the most difficult to deal with.
He reads something and can give it back to you a week later in it's full text.
The tone of his voice never changes and he is very monotone when he speaks. It
is at times, difficult to continue to actively listen. He will ask you a
question, then answer it. Hey, you never know, he could be the next Jeopardy
champion! We try to take the upsets and make them victories.

Heh. That's a good attitude to teach resilience. :-)

Good luck in your search for your son's diagnosis. It is difficult, I know.

Good luck to you, V.

Cele

On 03 Dec 2004 16:39:46 GMT, oaway (Joelle) wrote:

I think it is a misdiagnosis, because he is more socially adept than most
children with the condition.

How old is he? Because younger they can "pass" socially but as they get older,
their eccentries become more noticable and peers become less tolerant.

When you say "most kids with the condition" you are talking bout those you
know- who were more obivious and easier to diagnose. Because there is a wide
spectrum, those who are further on the spectrum and are able to "fake it" in
order to get along, (under great stress) are more difficult to diagnose "Well
he can't have it, he's not as bad as *those* kids". They can be very
intellegent in some areas and so more is expected of them, causing even more
stress because people don't realize how much effort it takes just to appearl
"normal"

That's sure the truth. It's really tough for these kids, and they can
become really stressed, because they're very well aware that things
aren't going well socially, and they want to 'fix it' but don't know
how. The skills can be taught though, especially if they're caught
early enough.

He was also diagnosed with OCD. That is a
definate
right on the money diagnosis.

Often occurs with aspergers.

Yup. And Tourette's, and NLD.

and compulsive
about things like smells, germ

Does he seem overly sensitive to smells and taste and complain about how his
clothes feel?

Sensory processing issues can also show up in putting hands over the
ears, wanting to 'cocoon' into small spaces, squeezing everything
including body parts very tightly, refusing to wear shoes summer and
winter, rocking, repetitive motions, being very fussy about eating and
only being willing to eat certain textures, and...and...and....

Best to all...

Cele

On 04 Dec 2004 15:22:38 GMT, oaway (Joelle) wrote:

Does he seem overly sensitive to smells and taste and complain about how his
clothes feel?

Yes!
He is so sensitive and swears he can smell lettuce. Is that part of it, as
well?

Yup - its called sensory integration disfunction.

I could be in denial, though.

Hey, aren't we all? :-)

No kidding. :-) Who isn't?

Cele

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 05:03:10 GMT, "V" wrote:


"Joelle" wrote in message
...
Uh, no. Hand flapping has nothing to do with Aspergers.

Yes it does.
It is a repetitive motion in which is common among children with
asperger's.

It's not a "main symptom" It may be "a" symptom for "some" kids with
Aspergers. That's one of the problems with diagnosing it. It manifests
itself
very differently and someone superficially familiar with it will dedide "oh
he
doesn't flap his hands, he doesn't have it" or "oh, she is close with her
parents, she doesn't have it"

I just think to say "hand flapping" is a "main symptom" is really
misleading.
Lots of aspie kids do not hand flap.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

Not main, per say, but a lot of kids show that....from what the doc says.

What the 'hand flapping' is about, is it's part of a bigger class of
behaviours that are *very* common with ASD kids (autism spectrum
disorder) called 'repetitive motion'. Plenty of ASD kids do hand flap,
plenty don't. More kids with ASDs have some repetitive motion or other
at some time in their lives, but certainly hand flapping is only one
of many possibilities. A few, but by no means all, of the others a
rocking, head banging, twirling, tapping, body pressing, etc. Some
behaviours that are normal range, but repetitive, such as thumb
twiddling, knee jiggling, foot tapping, etc., can be part of it if
done to excess. Basically, what your doctor may be trying to tell you,
is that a lot of kids with ASDs do have repetitive motions and it's
one part of a complex diagnosis. But as we all know, people who don't
appear to have any disabilities will have repetitive motions at times
as well. For example, when my younger daughter was a screaming infant,
I remember escaping long enough to go get something at the grocery
store, and not being conscious that I was rocking until someone
grinned at me and said, "got a baby at home?" LOL I have also found
myself rocking gently at times of extreme stress - identifying my
sister's body, in hospital hallways after extremely challenging days
with T, etc. Do I have an ASD? Nope. But enough stress can bring out
interesting behaviours in anyone, and one theory to explain the
repetitive motion of kids with ASD is that they're self-soothing
behaviours.

Hope that's helpful. For those who don't know me - I'm not a doctor,
I'm a special ed teacher, so add salt as you see fit.

Cele

On 03 Dec 2004 13:04:59 GMT, oaway (Joelle) wrote:

No, He hasn't been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome.... though I think I
should at least ask his therapist about that and other things that have been
brought up to me. I also doubt that the psychiatrists have even looked for
it.

You would be surprised how many doctors and therapists know very little about
it so it can easily be missed. Many kids with aspergers get misdiagnosed and
mistaken for other things.

Doctors and therapists miss tons of things. I've always had a wry
sense of both gratification and disgust that it was *me* who worked
out that my daughter was profoundly far sighted, even though three
opthalmologists told me I was nuts, and it was *me* who first
suggested a diagnosis of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder even before
she disclosed her trauma. Both are now established facts.

To be fair, I guess they're only as good as the information we give
them, and if we don't know what's important to tell..... then again.
They need to ask the right questions, don't they?

For the better part of about 3 years though, I wondered if perhaps my
son did have a little autism going on....

Look into it.

Yup. Always follow your instincts. The consequences of being wrong,
are that you look and feel a bit silly. The consequences of being
right and *not* addressing it, can be lifelong.

did have a little autism going on.... I've been poo-poohed to death
about my "paranoid" thoughts

Yea, I know. God forbid you should suggest YOU who have been living with this
kid might know a little more about him than the "experts:

For sure. If experts react that way, with patronising or minimising
responses, then it's time for a new expert. Even if you're wrong, the
information should be provided respectfully with a good, clear,
factual explanation of why your concerns don't seem to support your
conclusions.

Check out that link and see if anything resonates.

You might also ask the school special ed people. They might be able to test
for it, though I don't think they can diagnose.

I believe things here are similar to down there in this regard, so
I'll take a shot at that one. What we do here, as special educators,
if a parents asks something of that nature, is to respond with our
clinical impressions and best guess, qualify it by reminding them that
we aren't trained to diagnose, and encourage them to see the right
(medical) professional. However. Lots of us, me included, will also
volunteer to call the doctor (assuming we get a signed permission slip
to do so, of course) and present our observations and clinical
impressions, which can then help the doc to A) take you more seriously
and B) expand his/her awareness of the specific challenges the child
is facing. Doctors tend to get more serious if they're *also* hearing
from the school that there are consistent concerns.

Good luck.

Cele

On 3 Dec 2004 10:28:36 -0800, (Laura)
wrote:


opinion ... violence is a fact of life and trying to understand it is
the only healthy way to deal with it.

I have to agree. It's our job to protect children, for sure, but it's
also our job to gradually teach them over the eighteen or so years
we've got them, how to cope with the reality they'll face when they
leave our care. Understanding and coping skills have to be a part of
that, or ultimately we end off sending them into the world
unprotected.

Cele

Both what Joelle and Cele are saying make complete sense!! See, way too many
symptoms overlap into other possibilities....
My son was at one point diagnosed with ADD.... Then it was ADHD... then it
was schizoaffective disorder..... then it was Mood Disorder.... right now,
the working diagnosis is ADHD with multiple features, Bipolar NOS and
symptoms consistent with PTSD and Mood Disorder...
HUH?!?! gee, aren't those all different names for virtually the same thing?
The kid has mood swings, can become violent, was traumatized, is very
sensitive, etc.
So now, once we get onto medicaid, hopefully a doc that's covered will be
willing to do a more diagnostic workup on this kiddo so we can effectively
treat and manage what's going on with him. I mean, some of the meds he was
on simply didn't make sense. In fact, Until we have a more concrete idea as
to what's going on, medications will probably do more harm than good. My
chiropractor has seen my son for some accupressure and a basic evaluation.
we've discovered that my son's neck was traumatized during his birth and
it's possible (now, keep in mind, this is a theory right now) that his skull
sutures were beginning to seal before he was delivered. We wouldn't know
unless we could get him in for the proper tests.
Anyway.... Thanks! I'll speak with his special ed team about this a little
more in depth.

--
"Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it.
You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
~Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Cele" wrote in message
...
On 03 Dec 2004 13:04:59 GMT, oaway (Joelle) wrote:

No, He hasn't been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome.... though I think
I
should at least ask his therapist about that and other things that have
been
brought up to me. I also doubt that the psychiatrists have even looked
for
it.

You would be surprised how many doctors and therapists know very little
about
it so it can easily be missed. Many kids with aspergers get misdiagnosed
and
mistaken for other things.

Doctors and therapists miss tons of things. I've always had a wry
sense of both gratification and disgust that it was *me* who worked
out that my daughter was profoundly far sighted, even though three
opthalmologists told me I was nuts, and it was *me* who first
suggested a diagnosis of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder even before
she disclosed her trauma. Both are now established facts.

To be fair, I guess they're only as good as the information we give
them, and if we don't know what's important to tell..... then again.
They need to ask the right questions, don't they?

For the better part of about 3 years though, I wondered if perhaps my
son did have a little autism going on....

Look into it.

Yup. Always follow your instincts. The consequences of being wrong,
are that you look and feel a bit silly. The consequences of being
right and *not* addressing it, can be lifelong.

did have a little autism going on.... I've been poo-poohed to death
about my "paranoid" thoughts

Yea, I know. God forbid you should suggest YOU who have been living with
this
kid might know a little more about him than the "experts:

For sure. If experts react that way, with patronising or minimising
responses, then it's time for a new expert. Even if you're wrong, the
information should be provided respectfully with a good, clear,
factual explanation of why your concerns don't seem to support your
conclusions.

Check out that link and see if anything resonates.

You might also ask the school special ed people. They might be able to
test
for it, though I don't think they can diagnose.

I believe things here are similar to down there in this regard, so
I'll take a shot at that one. What we do here, as special educators,
if a parents asks something of that nature, is to respond with our
clinical impressions and best guess, qualify it by reminding them that
we aren't trained to diagnose, and encourage them to see the right
(medical) professional. However. Lots of us, me included, will also
volunteer to call the doctor (assuming we get a signed permission slip
to do so, of course) and present our observations and clinical
impressions, which can then help the doc to A) take you more seriously
and B) expand his/her awareness of the specific challenges the child
is facing. Doctors tend to get more serious if they're *also* hearing
from the school that there are consistent concerns.

Good luck.

Cele

I could be in denial, though.

Hey, aren't we all? :-)

No kidding. :-) Who isn't?

It's a very fine line between hope and denial.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

My son was at one point diagnosed with ADD.... Then it was ADHD... then it
was schizoaffective disorder..... then it was Mood Disorder.... right now,
the working diagnosis is ADHD with multiple features, Bipolar NOS and
symptoms consistent with PTSD and Mood Disorder...
HUH?!?

It's very frustrating, because in some way, they are all just guessing. And
people (even some here) will blame it on your parenting because they have no
idea what it is like dealing with a kid who sees and reacts to the world
differently.

Don't give up. Keep trying and believe in your kid and yourself.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle