how to get her to open her mouth?

Well, I'm feeling much better! My nipple soreness is no longer "grit your
teeth and whimper", but more like rubbing a bruise. Also, Miss Madeline had
gained a pound over her birthweight at our 2 wk Dr appt!! So, I'm sure
she's getting plenty of BM.
Although the LC and nurses at the hospital said we have a good latch, I'm
thinking that it could be better. Specifically, she won't open her mouth
_really_ wide for my breast. She'll have a gaping open mouth when she's
trying to eat her hand, but refuses to open wide for me! In fact, when I'm
trying to latch her on and waiting for that open mouth, as soon as she does
open wide she stuffs her fist in before I get a chance to react. We have
regular battles over that upper hand going for her mouth while I'm trying to
latch her on.
Even with the only mostly open mouth she does take in the appropriate amount
of breast tissue and areola, but her lower lip doesn't seem to be
sufficiently flanged out. In fact, the only pain I really have now is where
her lower lip rubs against the areolar margin. I've tried flanging out her
lower lip once she is latched on, but she actively pulls it back in again.
So, I'm not sure if I need to figure out a way to get her to open wider in
order to get the lower lip flanged out, or if there is another method to get
that lower lip out and keep it that way. I've tried using my nipple or
finger to push it down, but that results in her clamping her mouth shut just
as I try to latch her on (I think it messes with her rooting reflex). I
have the impression that I'll be better able to improve this once she has
more head control (or I grow a third arm), but I'd like to try something in
the meantime!

Thanks for any suggestions!
Amy

On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:09:00 -0500, V. wrote:

Well, I'm feeling much better!

That's good.

My nipple soreness is no longer "grit your
teeth and whimper", but more like rubbing a bruise. Also, Miss Madeline had
gained a pound over her birthweight at our 2 wk Dr appt!! So, I'm sure
she's getting plenty of BM.
Although the LC and nurses at the hospital said we have a good latch, I'm
thinking that it could be better. Specifically, she won't open her mouth
_really_ wide for my breast. She'll have a gaping open mouth when she's
trying to eat her hand, but refuses to open wide for me! In fact, when I'm
trying to latch her on and waiting for that open mouth, as soon as she does
open wide she stuffs her fist in before I get a chance to react. We have
regular battles over that upper hand going for her mouth while I'm trying to
latch her on.

Little horrors aren't they For a while I wrapped up Ds's arms in a moses
basket sheet so he couldn't do that, although he frequently broke free
before I could latch him on. I lay a sheet out flat, lay him on top as if
to swaddle, fold over the left end of the sheet over his left arm sand
tuck the bit near his hand under his bum, then repeat with the
right. Not easy as he sometimes wriggled free, so DH used to hold the left
while I did the right then bought him over to me to latch on.

Even with the only mostly open mouth she does take in the appropriate
amount of breast tissue and areola, but her lower lip doesn't seem to be
sufficiently flanged out. In fact, the only pain I really have now is
where her lower lip rubs against the areolar margin. I've tried
flanging out her lower lip once she is latched on, but she actively
pulls it back in again. So, I'm not sure if I need to figure out a way
to get her to open wider in order to get the lower lip flanged out, or
if there is another method to get that lower lip out and keep it that
way. I've tried using my nipple or finger to push it down, but that
results in her clamping her mouth shut just as I try to latch her on (I
think it messes with her rooting reflex). I have the impression that
I'll be better able to improve this once she has more head control (or I
grow a third arm), but I'd like to try something in the meantime!

What I found worked was rather than lift baby to breast, lift baby
slightly while bringing breast to baby at the same time. The breast was
higher than baby's face, I pulled the breast down so the bottom of the
breast below the areola grazed his bottom lip and flanged it open. While
it is flanged keep moving the breast down so the nipple reaches the mouth
and quickly put in baby's mouth. It took a lot of practice and repeats as
he didnt' always gape very well, but it worked in the end. I sometimes do
it now when he's being a bit lazy and just grips the end of my nipple.

HTH. Let me know if you need a bit more explanation.

Jeni

V. wrote:

Although the LC and nurses at the hospital said we have a good latch, I'm
thinking that it could be better. Specifically, she won't open her mouth
_really_ wide for my breast.

Oh yeah, I remember that. The IBCLC had me trigger the latch reflex
and say "Open," and then do it again, and then do it again, until DS
*really* opened his mouth, and then she had me pull him to the breast
really quickly and just mash him on there. She referred to it as
"slamming." Don't lean down to her; pull her up to the breast instead,
or you'll end up with a really sore back after a couple of days. :-)

--
C, mama to three year old nursling

V writes:

Well, I'm feeling much better! My nipple soreness is no longer "grit
your teeth and whimper", but more like rubbing a bruise.

Good!

Also, Miss Madeline had gained a pound over her birthweight at our 2 wk
Dr appt!! So, I'm sure she's getting plenty of BM.

Also good!

Specifically, she won't open her mouth _really_ wide for my
breast. She'll have a gaping open mouth when she's trying to eat her
hand, but refuses to open wide for me! In fact, when I'm trying to latch
her on and waiting for that open mouth, as soon as she does open wide
she stuffs her fist in before I get a chance to react. We have regular
battles over that upper hand going for her mouth while I'm trying to
latch her on.

As Jen said, making a baby parcel, wrapping her hands to her body, can help
with this one. (Brings back memories, I'd forgotten!) Or simply having
another person catch her hands, when that's a possibility.

Even with the only mostly open mouth she does take in the
appropriate amount of breast tissue and areola, but her lower lip
doesn't seem to be sufficiently flanged out. In fact, the only pain I
really have now is where her lower lip rubs against the areolar margin.
I've tried flanging out her lower lip once she is latched on, but she
actively pulls it back in again.

Ah, this used to happen for us when the angle of the nipple going into the
mouth was wrong. I can't remember quite certainly what the problem was
though. I *think* it was that if the nipple pointed straight back, rather
than at the top of Colin's mouth, then there wasn't enough breast in the
bottom half of his mouth, specifically. IIRC, the lower lip needed to be
quite a bit further back from the nipple than the upper lip to make it work
properly. YsizeofaureolaMV, but for me, if the lower lip wasn't well back
from the aureola margin, the latch wasn't right; it was OK though for the
upper lip to be only just past it, if I'm remembering correctly. Maybe see
if something like that might be happening for you too? (I think this makes
sense - think about having something that shape in your own mouth. If it
doesn't feel quite secure at the bottom, as though it might pop out,
there's an impulse to furl your lip *in* to hang onto it. Solution, get
your lip further down onto it.)

So, I'm not sure if I need to figure out a way to get her to open wider
in order to get the lower lip flanged out, or if there is another method
to get that lower lip out and keep it that way. I've tried using my
nipple or finger to push it down, but that results in her clamping her
mouth shut just as I try to latch her on (I think it messes with her
rooting reflex). I have the impression that I'll be better able to
improve this once she has more head control (or I grow a third arm), but
I'd like to try something in the meantime!

Things I did to get Colin to open wide: touch either lip (I think bottom
worked better, but I read both) with the nipple, then *wait* until he
opened wide (that was the hard part, it took him longer than I expected to
react), then get him on fast; say "wide, wide" and open my own mouth very
wide - he would imitate things like that from an amazingly early age, maybe
from birth; observe that when he wasn't willing to open very wide it seemed
to mean that he wasn't really all that interested in feeding anyway, and
just try again a bit later.

Anyway, glad things are going better for you, hope it's plain sailing from
now on!

Sidheag
DS Colin Oct 27 2003

V. wrote:
Well, I'm feeling much better! My nipple soreness is no longer "grit your
teeth and whimper", but more like rubbing a bruise. Also, Miss Madeline had
gained a pound over her birthweight at our 2 wk Dr appt!! So, I'm sure
she's getting plenty of BM.

Wow! That's great news!

Although the LC and nurses at the hospital said we have a good latch, I'm
thinking that it could be better. Specifically, she won't open her mouth
_really_ wide for my breast. She'll have a gaping open mouth when she's
trying to eat her hand, but refuses to open wide for me! In fact, when I'm
trying to latch her on and waiting for that open mouth, as soon as she does
open wide she stuffs her fist in before I get a chance to react. We have
regular battles over that upper hand going for her mouth while I'm trying to
latch her on.

Swaddle her. Mine could wiggle out of swaddling at that age, but it
bought me enough time to get her good and latched on.

Even with the only mostly open mouth she does take in the appropriate amount
of breast tissue and areola, but her lower lip doesn't seem to be
sufficiently flanged out. In fact, the only pain I really have now is where
her lower lip rubs against the areolar margin. I've tried flanging out her
lower lip once she is latched on, but she actively pulls it back in again.
So, I'm not sure if I need to figure out a way to get her to open wider in
order to get the lower lip flanged out, or if there is another method to get
that lower lip out and keep it that way. I've tried using my nipple or
finger to push it down, but that results in her clamping her mouth shut just
as I try to latch her on (I think it messes with her rooting reflex). I
have the impression that I'll be better able to improve this once she has
more head control (or I grow a third arm), but I'd like to try something in
the meantime!

Try getting her on as well as you can, and then flipping her lower lip
with your finger (thumb, usually, for me) to get the flange. Dr. Sears
calls it the "lower lip flip" - you just have to apply a little gentle
pressure to her chin as she's sucking, and it'll cause her lip to flip
out nicely.

If you use your nipple to keep the lower lip down, it's going to cause
her to get your nipple into the wrong place in her mouth, I think.

You're right - improved head control helps a lot with this.

Sounds like you two are doing great! I'm so happy for you!!

Amy

wrote and I snipped:

V. wrote:

Although the LC and nurses at the hospital said we have a good latch, I'm
thinking that it could be better. Specifically, she won't open her mouth
_really_ wide for my breast.

Oh yeah, I remember that. The IBCLC had me trigger the latch reflex
and say "Open," and then do it again, and then do it again, until DS
*really* opened his mouth, and then she had me pull him to the breast
really quickly and just mash him on there. She referred to it as
"slamming." Don't lean down to her; pull her up to the breast instead,
or you'll end up with a really sore back after a couple of days. :-)

My breastfeeding instructor called it RAM. Rapid Arm Movement.

So, just ram her on there!

-Patty, mom of 1+2