Poll: Birth Control

Hillary Israeli wrote:

That's how mine was - the tip of the string was flush with the cervical
os. You couldn't trim it any shorter - he TRIED, but it just wasn't
possible. My poor husband said it felt like a razor poking him. It's much
better now with the length about 2 cm past the os. Neither of us is
bothered by it at all.

Hmmmm... I wonder if Chris does decide against a V, if we can find a
better length for the strings? And why couldn't the strings be removed
entirely? Like before the thing is even inserted? If there's no
string, then there's nothing to poke, right?

Cathy Weeks

Amy wrote:
Circe wrote:
so as long as the IDEA doesn't bother you (it bothers some people)

You mean, the idea of having something in there all the time? It can't
be to big, right? It's not like you can feel it, is it?

They are really tiny - maybe an inch long, and the cross part of the T
is shorter than that. I can't feel mine at all, ever.

Cathy Weeks

Amy writes:

Catherine Woodgold wrote:

Nobody's being forced into anything. There's always abstinence.

...which is probably a thousand times worse for a marriage than being
coerced (because I'm not actually planning on getting him drunk and
taking him to the clinic to get a V against his will, in spite of how I,
apparently, sound) into having a V.

Hmm. I've been thinking about this a lot though not posting this far, and I
think it really is a question of who controls what (as Circe I think said).
I think you have a right to refuse to modify your body by drugs or
insertions or whatever - and I *completely* see your point that what with
being in charge of contraception for years and having children you'll have
done your bit anyway! I think you have a right to refuse to have sex. I
don't think you have a right to tell someone else to modify his body.

So I think one way to present it would be: "I'm not willing to handle
contraception any more. I'm not willing to have unprotected sex."
(Optional: "And I don't think the reliability of condoms is high enough, so
I'm not willing to have sex protected only by a condom, either.") "So
unless you handle contraception, the natural consequence will be no
[vaginal!] sex. Your choice."

The difference between this and "you have to have the snip, because *I*'ve
analysed the alternatives and none of them is good enough" may be subtle,
but I think it's important.

In the unlikely worst case that it turns out that your DH's squick factor
is high enough that he'd prefer no sex to getting the snip, *and* you find
you can't have a happy marriage without vaginal sex, then you have a
problem that you have to talk some more about - but at least it isn't a
"she's telling me what to do and I don't want to do it" problem.

Sidheag
DS Colin Oct 27 2003

Circe wrote:
IUDs have something like a 0.1 failure rate. That seems like someone one can
feel reasonably confident about, at least from an efficacy POV!

and I personally wouldn't have wanted anything
foreign inside me.

Ah, but that's just it. YOU don't like the idea of an IUD and you presumably
wouldn't be at all happy if your husband had insisted you get one against
your wishes. I don't see why it's more acceptable or okay for a woman to
insist that her husband get a vasectomy against his wishes. Your desire not
to have anything foregn inside you doesn't seem to me a whole lot more
rational than a man's desire not to have surgical instruments mucking about
with his privates. They seem to me to be equally subjective ideas.

I believe vasectomy and tubal ligation are considered 99.5% effective.
IUD 98-99% effective. So IUD is less reliable. I don't know for sure
about relative complication rates, but if I were a woman, I'd be
spooked by what I have heard.
In general no bc method is good for a relationship if it is imposed by
one partner on another. This may be especially true in the case of
vasectomy, as some men really get hung up (so to speak) on their balls.
Usually, of course, it is women who are in the position of having to
accept the man's preference bc.

If men have doubts about vasectomy they should check out
alt.support.vasectomy or its associated website
www.vasectomy-information.com. There are links there to medical
research on complications, alternative procedures, after effects etc.,
different vasectomy procedures, aftercare; also stories submitted by
men who have been through it; pictures and video; even a humor page.

trifold
www.vasectomy-information.com
www.vasectomy-faq.org

"Catherine Woodgold" wrote in message
...
"Circe" ) writes:
I think
you should at least try an IUD before you decide that surgically altering
your husband against his wishes is your preferred method of birth
control.

I disagree. I don't think she's under any more obligation
to modify her body (with IUD, pills, or whatever) than is
her husband. And she has a right to have a preference, whether
or not he agrees or chooses it.

But they are not READY for permanent birth control right NOW, so she and her
husband apparently feel the need for SOME method of birth control for the
time being. We'd already been discussing IUDs as an alternative to the pills
that are giving her problems, and she seems to be leaning towards trying one
because the other alternatives aren't acceptable.

So, she might decide the IUD works well enough and is hassle-free enough
that she doesn't really feel quite so adamant about her husband's having a
vasectomy any more.
--
Be well, Barbara

"Catherine Woodgold" wrote in message
...
"Circe" ) writes:
I'm not opposed to vasectomies; I'm just opposed to forcing anybody to
undergo a surgical procedure (or have an IUD or take BCPs or anything
else)
against their will. There are nearly always other alternatives.

Nobody's being forced into anything. There's always abstinence.

Well, there's "force" and there's "force". Telling your spouse you're not
going to have sex with him/her any more until he/she does X is a form of
coercion, and anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling herself.
--
Be well, Barbara

"Catherine Woodgold" wrote in message
...
"Circe" ) writes:
I agree. But the decision DOES have to be mutual, which is all I've been
trying to say. If her husband can't get over being bothered by having his
testicles surgically altered but she somehow manages to bully him into
doing
it, it wasn't a mutual decision.

And if she gets bullied into taking pills or getting a tubal,

Why do people keep acting like BC pills or surgery are the only
contraceptive options here? They're not.

it wasn't a mutual decision either and not good for the marriage either.

At the moment, the mutual decision has apparently been for BC pills, with a
possible switch to an IUD. They have mutually decided that they are not done
having children, so neither one of them should be surgically sterilized at
this point. And they have apparently mutually decided that condoms are not
practical for them.

I don't know why you imply that I'm saying Amy should be bullied into
anything she doesn't want to do any more than her husband should be. For the
thousandth time, it's all in the presentation and the tone. There's a
dogmatism and even a hostility in the attitude presented here that hardly
seems likely to be conducive to a open, meaningful dialog between spouses.
--
Be well, Barbara

"Catherine Woodgold" wrote in message
...
"Circe" ) writes:
"Amy" wrote in message
oups.com...
...but I should "suck it up" and continue to take the pill, or get an
IUD, or get sterilized myself, or ....?

In a word, yes.

No, I'm sorry, we both have
sex, we both have responsiblities, and when the time comes to make the
decision that we're done reproducing, the responsiblity is going to be
his, because up until then the responsiblity is mine. That's just
biology. It's not fair, and I don't have to like it, and neither does
he.

Sorry, but biology says that his body is not your body. The law says you
don't own his body.

I don't get it. Sure, she doesn't own his body; but aren't
you talking above as if you own her body? What gives
you the right to say she should just suck it up?

Um, no. I'm saying that a mutual decision has to be made on contraception
and that one or the other of them is going to have to be the one to "do the
deed". Whether it's Amy or her husband, I can't say. But it's up to the two
of THEM to decide between THEM what to do. It's not for Amy to say to her
husband "Suck it up and get a vasectomy whether you want one or not" any
more than it's up to her husband to say "Suck it up and keep taking care of
this yourself". Neither one is a respectful attitude to have towards one's
spouse.

Really, Catherine, I'm stunned. You're usually so good at recognizing when
people are being disrespectful to one another that I'm shocked you don't see
the problem here.
--
Be well, Barbara

wrote in message
oups.com...
I believe vasectomy and tubal ligation are considered 99.5% effective.
IUD 98-99% effective.

The Copper-T (which I have) is 99.2% effective in actual use. The Mirena is
closer to 98% effective. (I didn't know there was that significant a
difference until I looked it up just now. I wonder why the Mirena is so much
less effective?)

I don't know for sure
about relative complication rates, but if I were a woman, I'd be
spooked by what I have heard.

What have you heard? IUDs got a really bad reputation back in the 1970s due
to a bad product called the Dalkon shield. There is a small risk of
infection immediately following insertion, but that seems to be quite rare.
Other than that, I think that IUDs generally cause fewer health problems for
women than BC pills.
--
Be well, Barbara

Cathy Weeks wrote:

And all of us feel that one partner requiring a
certain action - regardless of the other partners feelings to the
contrary - out of the other is unfair.

The thing is if the man stead fastly refuses to get a v then they are just
as guilty of requiring a certain action from their partner as you all are
saying Amy is. It is apparently the woman who carries the burden just
because she has more options to choose from!?

I guess I have more tolerance for Amy's position because while our attitudes
are not exactly the same I do expect more from my dh then most of you think
is appopriate.

--
Nikki
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06