lots of ovulation signs without temp rise?

Hi folks,
Was wondering if anyone knew exactly what the mechanism tying ovulation
signs/symptoms together is? Are they all caused by the same hormonal shift,
and thus if you have some symptoms you can be quite confident ovulation is
happening? Or is it more a coordination of several processes, where some
parts can be working and others might not (thus giving some, but not other
symptoms)? I have been able to find info on what kinds of things to be
looking for together, but very little on how to interpret some in the
absence of others.
All at about the (remarkably) right times, I had the transition from creamy
to watery to egg-white mucous, the transition from low to high and neutral
to back cervical position, the dip in BBT, and one-sided lower abdominal
twinges. EW was day 13, temp dip and twinges were day 14. But I haven't
seen a rise in BBT since then and it's now day 17. I thought maybe I was
just going to be slow-rise, but I haven't moved at all.
I understand that estrogen is in charge in the first half of the cycle, and
progesterone the second, and the progesterone is responsible for the temp
rise. Is it possible my estrogen is doing its thing correctly (and that I
actually ovulated) but that the progesterone didn't pick up where it was
supposed to? What would this imply for the remainder of my cycle?
Is this an understandable pattern for a first cycle off the pill?
Thanks so much for any insight you might have.
I am finding this group a tremendously valuable resource and a great aid to
maintaining sanity in these times of growing obsession.
--Kim in cville

Hi folks,
Was wondering if anyone knew exactly what the mechanism tying ovulation
signs/symptoms together is? Are they all caused by the same hormonal
shift,
and thus if you have some symptoms you can be quite confident ovulation is
happening? Or is it more a coordination of several processes, where some
parts can be working and others might not (thus giving some, but not other
symptoms)? I have been able to find info on what kinds of things to be
looking for together, but very little on how to interpret some in the
absence of others.
All at about the (remarkably) right times, I had the transition from
creamy
to watery to egg-white mucous, the transition from low to high and neutral
to back cervical position, the dip in BBT, and one-sided lower abdominal
twinges. EW was day 13, temp dip and twinges were day 14. But I haven't
seen a rise in BBT since then and it's now day 17. I thought maybe I was
just going to be slow-rise, but I haven't moved at all.

Sorry but I don't have any answers for any of this. All I did was take my
temp, the day it went up a lot (usually .5 degrees) we'd have sex and I'd
get pregnant. I noticed whether I had CM but not what kind it was, if that
makes sense. I never checked cervical position (I kinda drew the line
there - lol). I don't remember ever noticing ovulation pain.

I understand that estrogen is in charge in the first half of the cycle,
and
progesterone the second, and the progesterone is responsible for the temp
rise. Is it possible my estrogen is doing its thing correctly (and that I
actually ovulated) but that the progesterone didn't pick up where it was
supposed to? What would this imply for the remainder of my cycle?

It's possible. I took Wild Yam to help with the post-ovulation part of my
cycle. My luteal phase was too short, meaning I didn't have enough
progesterone. To get pregnant with #3 and #4, I took Wild Yam (as well as
Vitex to ovulate, B6 to help with the Wild Yam with the luteal phase, EPO to
make more CM) and for both babies it took 2 months to get pregnant. I think
the Vitex and Wild Yam made the difference.

Is this an understandable pattern for a first cycle off the pill?

Any pattern is fine for the first month off IMO. I would expect that month
to be weird.

Thanks so much for any insight you might have.
I am finding this group a tremendously valuable resource and a great aid
to
maintaining sanity in these times of growing obsession.
--Kim in cville

Piggy backing on your response Sophie, deleted the original already.

Sophie wrote:

I understand that estrogen is in charge in the first half of the cycle,
and
progesterone the second, and the progesterone is responsible for the temp
rise. Is it possible my estrogen is doing its thing correctly (and that I
actually ovulated) but that the progesterone didn't pick up where it was
supposed to? What would this imply for the remainder of my cycle?

It's possible. I took Wild Yam to help with the post-ovulation part of my
cycle. My luteal phase was too short, meaning I didn't have enough
progesterone. To get pregnant with #3 and #4, I took Wild Yam (as well as
Vitex to ovulate, B6 to help with the Wild Yam with the luteal phase, EPO to
make more CM) and for both babies it took 2 months to get pregnant. I think
the Vitex and Wild Yam made the difference.

Is this an understandable pattern for a first cycle off the pill?

Any pattern is fine for the first month off IMO. I would expect that month
to be weird.

I know its possible to gear up for ovulation and then not ovulate, and
ovulate late in the cycle. My first cycle off the pill was really short
followed by the one where I got pregnant (which ended in a miscarriage).
That cycle, I had CM changes that indicated ovulation was coming, but
no temp rise. I think I ovulated on day 52. Cervical position never made
any sense to me.

My cycles were pretty irregular after the miscarriage, but settled down
and I got pregnant on a textbook cycle.

While I was nursing my daughter, prior to my cycle returning (9 months
post partum), I had several instances where my CM changed, leading
me to believe ovulation was imminent, so I started temping. I had 2
or 3 kind of false starts and then ovulated, with my period 2 weeks
later. I went on to have pretty regular cycles with clear CM changes
leading to a temp rise after that.

So, to the OP: you probably haven't ovulated yet, and you are
probably a little out of whack just coming off the pill. It can take
a couple months coming off the pill to really see the pattern in your
cycle.

One thing I don't think I ever read about was that my CM changed
after ovulation - it becomes very creamy/lotion like - not stretchy at
all. Even if I'm not temping I can tell when I've ovulated. OB
said this was due to the progesterone (and it goes crazy when
I'm pregnant).

Mary

On Thu, 6 May 2004 11:49:43 -0400, "kim in cville"
wrote:

My periods & ovulation were so irregular and I was rarely aware of my
temperature so what I did was find a place online that sells ovulation
sticks cheap (usually about .60 - .80 per stick) and bought them in
bulk. I did the same thing with pregnancy tests. (they were the same
price as the ovulation sticks) And the pg tests were much more
sensitive that OTC ones, these are supposedly like the ones used in
Dr's offices. If I'm not mistaken, I bought a bunch on Ebay. After
buying a 'batch' of each type of test I was probably out about $30-$40
at the most and was pg within 3 months.

HTH

Carla
#1 due 5/14/04

Thanks, Mary--
Yes, I imagine I am probably a little out of whack just coming off the pill.
Strangely, my temp *did* eventually rise, on day 18, *4 days* after
suspected ovulation (according to other symptoms). Not sure what to think
of that--maybe the gap will close over the next few months...but if I really
did ovulate and did it when I think I did, we BD'ed 3 days in a row at the
right time... so maybe, just maybe
--Kim in cville
TTC #1


"Mary W." wrote in message
...

I know its possible to gear up for ovulation and then not ovulate, and
ovulate late in the cycle. My first cycle off the pill was really short
followed by the one where I got pregnant (which ended in a miscarriage).
That cycle, I had CM changes that indicated ovulation was coming, but
no temp rise. I think I ovulated on day 52. Cervical position never made
any sense to me.

My cycles were pretty irregular after the miscarriage, but settled down
and I got pregnant on a textbook cycle.

While I was nursing my daughter, prior to my cycle returning (9 months
post partum), I had several instances where my CM changed, leading
me to believe ovulation was imminent, so I started temping. I had 2
or 3 kind of false starts and then ovulated, with my period 2 weeks
later. I went on to have pretty regular cycles with clear CM changes
leading to a temp rise after that.

So, to the OP: you probably haven't ovulated yet, and you are
probably a little out of whack just coming off the pill. It can take
a couple months coming off the pill to really see the pattern in your
cycle.

One thing I don't think I ever read about was that my CM changed
after ovulation - it becomes very creamy/lotion like - not stretchy at
all. Even if I'm not temping I can tell when I've ovulated. OB
said this was due to the progesterone (and it goes crazy when
I'm pregnant).

Mary

kim in cville wrote:
Thanks, Mary--
Yes, I imagine I am probably a little out of whack just coming off the pill.
Strangely, my temp *did* eventually rise, on day 18, *4 days* after
suspected ovulation (according to other symptoms). Not sure what to think
of that--maybe the gap will close over the next few months...but if I really
did ovulate and did it when I think I did, we BD'ed 3 days in a row at the
right time... so maybe, just maybe
--Kim in cville
TTC #1



You may just be a slow riser. If you didn't get lucky this month
your regular pattern will probably come out pretty quickly.

Fingers crossed for you,

Mary