My OB and my Birth Plan

KC wrote:
The thing about birth plans is they give you something to point at for
your wishes when you are in the throes of labor. I think they are a
good idea.

And point of view is that you and your spouse/boyfriend/life
partner/some_guy_you_met_on_the_street and your doctor should sit down
and discuss and understand all your options.


You can see by the comment about eating and drinking that the nurse
cares more about herself than about how her patients feel.

Well, such is the nature of people today. From the nurse's point of
view, you care more about yourself than how she feels. After all,
she/he has bills to pay, a family to worry about and his/her own life
worries. The last thing he/she needs is another person to say "here is
my birth plan, please bring me my hamburger and fries" and then deal
with your mess.


agsf, you don't generally come across as the kind of wimp who thinks he
shouldn't tell someone how to do their job when he is the customer,

Actually, if the expectation of services and/or goods are not met, I
inform the manager. But, I take responsibility for the way I spend
money and take my business elsewhere.

and
yet here you are telling us that telling people how to do their job is
not a good idea.

It's not. You have to understand, they are only human and being such,
might react negatively towards you.

I think it is a good idea when it's my skin on the
line.

Then be better prepared.

I have had alot of health problems already in my life, and I have found
doctors to be wrong in what they wanted to do quite frequently. Hell
if I am going to hold my tongue and not tell them what to do when it is
my life and health on the line.

You have a right to change doctors.

KC

Regards...

wrote:
KC wrote:
The thing about birth plans is they give you something to point at for
your wishes when you are in the throes of labor. I think they are a
good idea.

And point of view is that you and your spouse/boyfriend/life
partner/some_guy_you_met_on_the_street and your doctor should sit down
and discuss and understand all your options.

The thing is we shouldn't have to get permission from a doctor. He is
in our employ if we or our insurance companies are paying him. He
should be doing what we want him to, not what we don't want him to. In
my case because I have complications, the doctors want to do alot of
things that will make me suffer more during labor like: IV, constant
fetal monitoring, and no food. If I try to discuss that I don't want
these things they will argue with me. I have no desire to argue or to
try to get their permission. I simply want my birth how I want it. If
I am willing to put up with the risk of not doing an IV or constant
fetal monitoring, then that should be that. So, I find it easier to
spring that on them late in the game with a birth plan, than to argue
about what I want ahead of time. It's easy to say change doctors, but
it isn't always easy to do for a person with complications.



You can see by the comment about eating and drinking that the nurse
cares more about herself than about how her patients feel.

Well, such is the nature of people today. From the nurse's point of
view, you care more about yourself than how she feels.

Well, I do care about myself more of course, but I am not being paid to
be her nurse. And, the bigger point is that women need strength to
labor and birth a child, so they shouldn't be starved. And during the
birth, the primary focus should be on the mother not on the nurse.
Most of the things in a birth plan are usually telling a nurse to do
less, not to do more, so she should quit her bitching.



agsf, you don't generally come across as the kind of wimp who thinks he
shouldn't tell someone how to do their job when he is the customer,

Actually, if the expectation of services and/or goods are not met, I
inform the manager. But, I take responsibility for the way I spend
money and take my business elsewhere.

and
yet here you are telling us that telling people how to do their job is
not a good idea.

It's not. You have to understand, they are only human and being such,
might react negatively towards you.


I am more concerned with making sure that I do not allow anything
detrimental to me or the baby to be done than I am concerned with them
reacting negatively to me.

I think it is a good idea when it's my skin on the
line.

Then be better prepared.

I am not sure what you mean here about being better prepared.



I have had alot of health problems already in my life, and I have found
doctors to be wrong in what they wanted to do quite frequently. Hell
if I am going to hold my tongue and not tell them what to do when it is
my life and health on the line.

You have a right to change doctors.

Of course I do, but there is not always another doctor to switch to
within a reasonable distance, so a person has to keep their doctor and
work to not allow the doctor to do the wrong thing.


I think you will learn as you age and have more medical problems, that
you cannot ever let doctors make decisions for you (except in
unexpected emergency situations). You listen to the choices, you
research and you decide, and you argue with them to get what you have
decided upon if necessary. You can also switch doctors, but sometimes
it is more practical to fight for what you want rather than to
constantly be switching doctors. Doctors do not always do the right
things for people, so it really isn't safe to not be very proactive
with medical situations. It's too bad I have already learned this the
hard way, and I sincerely hope that you don't have to learn it the hard
way.

KC

wrote:
KC wrote:

You can see by the comment about eating and drinking that the nurse
cares more about herself than about how her patients feel.

Well, such is the nature of people today. From the nurse's point of
view, you care more about yourself than how she feels. After all,
she/he has bills to pay, a family to worry about and his/her own life
worries. The last thing he/she needs is another person to say "here is
my birth plan, please bring me my hamburger and fries" and then deal
with your mess.

Are you freaking kidding me? It's her JOB to worry about me and my
comfort during labor. It is NOT my job to worry about her bills, her
family, or her "life worries," whatever the hell that means.

Sometimes I think that you're really Jamie (or someone, but Jamie is
the likely suspect), and that you're really an elaborate practical
joke, because no one could possibly mean all the asinine things that
you say.

You would not send an athlete into a marathon without adequate
nutrition and hydration. Why, then, do we force women to do the
hardest work of their lives for hours and hours without adequate
nutrition? Hydration they can take care of with an IV, but you
wouldn't see Lance Armstrong hanging an IV bag off of his bike during
the Tour de France. It's MUCH more efficient to drink to thirst, and
eat to hunger, to keep your body refreshed, and keep your energy up.

Further, the excess fluid from the IV can cause an overabundance of
fluid in the body (and glucose, if they hang a glucose drip instead of
saline, has its own set of problems beyond overhydration).

Finally, the reason they stopped letting women eat was "just in case"
they needed a c-section, because Mom could aspirate whatever she
vomited. This was back before it was standard practice to intubate
women who were under a general anesthetic. Now they intubate, so you
are physically incapable of aspirating vomitus. And if you have a c
with an epidural, you're not going to aspirate because you're
CONSCIOUS.

Personally, if I'm going to vomit, I'd rather have something in my
stomach than nothing. And knowing myself, and knowing that I get very
sick if my blood sugar gets too low, I'd MUCH rather eat and drink to
comfort during labor than risk 1) overhydration; 2) hypoglycemia in the
baby post birth from giving too much glucose during birth; 3)
hypoglycemia in myself due to inadequate nutrition; 4) lack of stamina
and energy; 5) crankiness and weakness from hypoglycemia; etc.

Oh, but sorry, it's apparently ALL about the nurses because they have
"life worries." What was I thinking?

Go away, already. You haven't got the faintest idea what you're
talking about, and it's painfully obvious to everyone but you.

Amy

Amy wrote:


Sometimes I think that you're really Jamie (or someone, but Jamie is
the likely suspect),

The Case of the Missing Smiley (or "S is for Smiley," maybe). Jamie,
you know I love you. I just figure that since your mom is a famous
author, you'd have the creativity that would be necessary to come up
with a character like agsf...

Amy

wrote:
Cathy Weeks wrote:
wrote:

I found this little piece on another newsgroup. I'm not even a nurse,
but even I know enough about human nature that telling people how to do
their job is not a good idea...:

So what would you suggest people do, when the hospital has policies and
procedures that are statistically proven to cause complications?

Now, I personally did something radical - My husband and I chose to
have a homebirth, to avoid the stupid hospital rules that would have
likely led to me not having as healthy and peaceful a birth.

I too had a birthplan, and my midwives read it seriously, suggested one
change to it because they disagreed, and we ageed to the change.

What you did is perfect. You had an issue with the policies and
procedures of your local hospital, therefore you took the responsible
path by controlling the situation at hand.

Just out of curiosity, what would you have done if you needed an
emergency c-section?

Short answer: Gone to the hospital. I'm not so adverse to hospitals
and their stupid rules, that I would put myself or baby in danger to
avoid them.

However, it should be said, that true
emergency-get-the-baby-out-now-or-it-will-die situations are very,
very, very rare - and the baby would die either at home OR in the
hospital. In most hospitals, the decision-to-incision time is over 30
minutes. If my midwives had suspected a c-section might be necessary,
they would have called the hospital and instructed them to get the OB
and anesthesologist on call, and prepare the OR while we were in
transit (about 35 or 40 minutes away). They carried oxygen and other
emergency supplies. Complications rarely crop up suddenly - rather
they give teltale signs long in advance, and my midwives would
recommend a transfer, and because they only had 10% transfer rate for
first time moms, and only a 7% c-section rate overall, I trusted their
judgement implicitly.

My midwives had delivered over 3000 babies, and never lost a mother or
baby.

wrote:

Well, such is the nature of people today. From the nurse's point of
view, you care more about yourself than how she feels. After all,
she/he has bills to pay, a family to worry about and his/her own life
worries. The last thing he/she needs is another person to say "here is
my birth plan, please bring me my hamburger and fries" and then deal
with your mess.

Denying food to laboring women has been shown to *cause* complications.
Labor is hard physical effort that can last for days. If a woman is
denied food, her only source of energy, then she is weakened for the
task at hand. If she's too tired, then it's more likely she'll need an
epidural, which often SLOWS LABOR DOWN, and will then increase her
chances of a c-section, etc. It's a domino effect. Perhaps the nurse
wants to increase the hospital's revinue?

The nurse got a job in a messy profession. I think puking women is par
for the course. She could of course, get a different job.

Either way, people have to be able to make their wishes known, and when
there aren't midwives available for homebirth, or they can't afford the
extra fees (some insurances companies only pay for hospital births)
then their next best bet is to use the hospital. But the hospital may
or may not have stupid, old-fashioned policies.

What is so wrong with trying to change them, especially if it benefits
other mothers and families in the long run?

Cathy Weeks

"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message
oups.com...
wrote:
Well, such is the nature of people today. From the nurse's point of
view, you care more about yourself than how she feels. After all,
she/he has bills to pay, a family to worry about and his/her own life
worries. The last thing he/she needs is another person to say "here is
my birth plan, please bring me my hamburger and fries" and then deal
with your mess.

The nurse got a job in a messy profession. I think puking women is par
for the course. She could of course, get a different job.

And, in fact, studies show that women are not more likely to vomit if they
eat during labor than if they don't. It's just that women who eat during
labor will tend to vomit a larger *amount*. Either way, there's still just
as likely to be puke to clean up!
--
Be well, Barbara

Cathy Weeks wrote:
Just out of curiosity, what would you have done if you needed an
emergency c-section?

Short answer: Gone to the hospital. I'm not so adverse to hospitals
and their stupid rules, that I would put myself or baby in danger to
avoid them.

I forgot to mention, that there are of course risks, whatever venue you
choose. And if something bad happened BECAUSE we were at home (however
rare and improbable), and not in the hospital, then we would have taken
responsibility for our choice.

Cathy Weeks

"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message
oups.com...

What is so wrong with trying to change them, especially if it benefits
other mothers and families in the long run?

agsf is clinging to some weird 1950s 'ideal'. He is not about to update his
point of view; nor is he likely to become more educated about the world
today any time soon. He is kind of like a quaint relic from the past, like
porcelain bedpans.

However, Cathy, I am very much enjoying your well thought out, intelligent
and reasoned responses in this thread. You are teaching me lots. :-)
--
Jacqueline
#1 Due late Jul/early Aug

Boy I'm glad I read this post first! I was sitting there wondering -- Why
the hell did she bring me into this mess, and why is she ****ed at me?

: )

Seriously, I could never think up half of the **** that comes out of this
guys fingers. I am not, nor I ever been AGSF. I shudder at the thought, as
does he, I'm sure.
--

Jamie
Earth Angels:
Taylor Marlys, 1/3/03 -- Little Miss Chatty, whose favorite sayings are
"What's going on in here" and "I've gotta get out of here!
Addison Grace, 9/30/04 -- Little Miss Into Everything, whose reach has
extended into the whole coffee table...nothing is safe!

Check out the family! -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1, Password:
Guest
Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up your own User ID and
Password

"Amy" wrote in message
oups.com...


Amy wrote:


Sometimes I think that you're really Jamie (or someone, but Jamie is
the likely suspect),

The Case of the Missing Smiley (or "S is for Smiley," maybe). Jamie,
you know I love you. I just figure that since your mom is a famous
author, you'd have the creativity that would be necessary to come up
with a character like agsf...

Amy