discipline

Am I the only one who finds it hard to discipline the children ??? Or
is the a common problem ? I have a hard time with bed time. I want the
kids to go to bed at a certain time 8:30-9:00 would be great.

What can I do to get her to go upstairs and go to bed before 10-10:30 at
night.

I snipped a lot of this for space, but I think the main problem here is that
the kids have learned that you are never going to follow through, so they know
that you don't mean what you say. IOW, you might SAY that their bedtime is
8:30 ... but it's really always 10 or 10:30, because all they have to do is
ask, and you are happy to sit with them, check the closet for monsters,
whatever, and before you know it, a couple of hours have gone by every night.

Your kids are certainly old enough for reason and logic. They are starting
school in a month. They have to start getting up early, which means they have
to go to bed early enough to get a decent night's sleep. So start enforcing
their bedtimes NOW. Bedtime is 8:30. She may read until 9, or you can sit
with her/read her a story, then light's out. (Does she have a night light if
she's afraid of the dark?) Wake her up at whatever time she will start needing
to get up for school in September. (So you can start getting a better sense of
exactly how much sleep she is going to need, and fine tune her bedtime. [Unless
her school starts unusually late, or she can get by on less sleep than most
6's, you may find that a 9 o:clock bedtime is going to be to late.

Same thing for your son. You are happy to cuddle briefly at bedtime. (HIS
bedtime, NOT 10 p.m....) But in HIS bed, and then, when the clock says it's
sleeptime, the light goes out, and he goes to sleep. (Does he have a teddy or
something to cuddle with in bed?)

You are the parents here. Your job isn't to be monsters or ogres, but your job
IS to make, and enforce, the reasonable rules that your children need to allow
them to function in a world that has a certain number of rules and
expectations. It may not be the fun part of parenting, but it's certainly one
of the most important parts.


Naomi
CAPPA Certified Lactation Educator

(either remove spamblock or change address to to e-mail
reply.)

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 10:39:38 -0400, "James and Karen Stewart"
wrote:

Am I the only one who finds it hard to discipline the children ??? Or
is the a common problem ? I have a hard time with bed time. I want the
kids to go to bed at a certain time 8:30-9:00 would be great. I find myself
doing bathtime, and then snack and then trying to get them into bed and
having my 6 year old tell me she is not tired...I tell her that she doesn't
have to sleep just go to bed and read a book if she wants to.

Of course you are not alone.

I still find that positive discipline works best though and rule
setting is best done *with* children rather than by parent fiat.

So, for the bedtime problems, create a routine together. You can't
*make* a child sleep, but you can insist that she plays quietly in her
own room and falls asleep there when she is tired.

You already do bath time. I am not sure that I would do an evening
snack time right before bed. I think that often makes kids more
wakeful. I would read her a favorite story in bed and cuddle there.
If she is afraid of monsters, you might get a small flashlight she can
use and create a routine that makes them *go away* for her
or get a dream catcher and read the story of how it catches bad
dreams and only lets good dreams through. If she is really not tired,
suggest that she can listen to quiet music perhaps if she likes that.
Sometimes a particular song can be associated with sleepy time.
I used to sing to my kids all the time.

Keep the routine the same and if she does come out of the room,
put her back to bed without much comment.

Also as someone else suggested begin now to wake her at the
time she will need to wake for school. Create a morning routine
and include some fun activities so she will enjoy getting up and out
early enough. Perhaps you can get out of the house early and walk
to the school grounds to play if it is close enough.

Make morning time active and fun. Also make sure that she is getting
exercise that helps tire her out during the day. Go out to the
playground or swimming pool when you can. I found my kids always
slept well after an active day provided that they also had winding
down activities after dinner.

She should be amenable to logic at six and also like to make the
rules, so sit down with her and compromise on the bedtime. If you
want 8 PM and she wants 10 PM, perhaps 9 PM would be a good
compromise. Is there a TV show or video that could be started at
8 or 8:30 to demarcate the bedtime hour as 9? If so, she may be
happy to have that played each night and go to bed when it is over.
Time for kids of this age is pretty hard to delineate and they are not
really clock bound as adults are so having a specific activity that
demarcates the bedtime is better than using the clock.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits

What can I do to get her to go upstairs and go to bed before 10-10:30 at
night.

Take her upstairs, put her in bed at a proper time, and tell her in no
uncertain terms to STAY PUT! Then turn out the light. If she comes out of her
room for any other reason than to go to the bathroom, there will be punishment.

THAT'S discipline. You don't "get" a child to do something, you "make" them do
something. Anything else is letting your children rule the home, and that's
wrong.

"James and Karen Stewart" wrote in message
...
Am I the only one who finds it hard to discipline the children ??? Or
is the a common problem ? I have a hard time with bed time. I want the
kids to go to bed at a certain time 8:30-9:00 would be great. I find
myself
doing bathtime, and then snack and then trying to get them into bed and
having my 6 year old tell me she is not tired...I tell her that she
doesn't
have to sleep just go to bed and read a book if she wants to.

She doesn't want to go to bed alone..she wants my husband or me to
stay
with her. Mainly the reason for this is she says she is scared in her
room
alone..... We have a two storey house and I am wondering what I can doto
make her less afraid up their alone. She doesn't read scary books or
watch
a scary show before bed, and I have gone in her closet in the dark to
prove
to her that there is nothing in there.

What can I do to get her to go upstairs and go to bed before 10-10:30 at
night.

She will be going to school everyday come Sept. so I need to get this
problem fixed.

Hubby and I haven't had even an hour or down/alone time at night for the
last 2 weeks. We are going insane...sometimes you need just a few hours
alone a week, but there is just no time for us to be alone together
lately.
Please don't suggest that we go out for supper and get a sitter...because
we
do get time alone....just not often. The kids will be going to their
grandparents for a few night and we are going away overnight in Aug. but
it's just the last two weeks have been a pain and a really trying time for
us with the kids.

Also my son wants to cuddle on the couch everynight with me and fall
asleep with me. Come Sept he will be starting Junior kindergardten and
will
need to fall asleep earlier in his own bed. I have tried to suggest
cuddling in his bed but he wants to cuddle on the couch.


Any ideas
Thanks
Karen



Sounds to me that you are just going to have to be a bit stricter. I don't
think that children will always sleep when they need it. They can get very
over tired and have trouble falling asleep when they MOST need it. You have
to tell them when bedtime is and be firm about it. Once they are in bed
don't get them up, if they need comfort do it in their beds.

When the kids do go to bed at the earlier time, make a big fuss off them and
tell them how good they are. You might want to repalce the snack with a warm
milk, it could relax them and stick to a routine. Humans have sleep cues and
if you do the same things enough times before sleep they will become cues
for sleep.

If monsters are a problem someone on here a while a go suggested a bottle of
monster repellent. You can buy a spary bottle for a few dollars, fill it up
with water (unobserved of course) and spray around the room with the child
before bed. Tell your little girl that it makes the monsters run away and go
home. It may work! However the "scared" may well be another form of
procrastination and be replaced with "thirsty" or "not tired"!

Okay I'm no expert and I am goign by what my parents did rather than what I
do (my little boy is younger than yours) so take it with a pinch of salt!
But hopefully I've said someything useful.

Good Luck

Judy

"toto" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 10:39:38 -0400, "James and Karen Stewart"
wrote:

I still find that positive discipline works best though and rule
setting is best done *with* children rather than by parent fiat.

Positive discipline has been tried but I just haven't got the patience for
ti in some cases, but sometimes it seems to work, it is hard to use it when
I am used of being disciplined the way I do it...positive discipline is new
to many of us and although I have read the books on it and agree I have had
a hard time figuring out ways to do it effectively. ( I am also a fairly
young parent and sometimes feel like this makes it harder to deal with
them....I am 28)

You already do bath time. I am not sure that I would do an evening
snack time right before bed.
We have always had a snack before bed, due mostly to the fact that neither
of my children are big eaters and used to wake up hungry when there was no
snack at bed time.

Also as someone else suggested begin now to wake her at the
time she will need to wake for school. Create a morning routine
and include some fun activities so she will enjoy getting up and out
early enough. Perhaps you can get out of the house early and walk
to the school grounds to play if it is close enough.

We will need to get up at 7 Am to get ready for school but she will take
the bus.

Make morning time active and fun. Also make sure that she is getting
exercise that helps tire her out during the day. Go out to the
playground or swimming pool when you can.

The cartoons/kids shows are on in the morning and with the two kids that
seems to be the only time I get any time to work on house work and
cleaning.This summer has been really hot on a few days and really crappy for
swimming on most days. We have only gone swimming about 4 times this
summer, hope Aug. is better for that. My daughter is on medication for her
blood pressure and it makes her sensitive to the sun so on really hot days
we can only be out for a while, ( definatly not between 2-4 in the
afternoon)

want 8 PM and she wants 10 PM, perhaps 9 PM would be a good
compromise.

It's not so much that she wants 10 pm it's more that it takes asking her
from 8:30 until 10 to make it happen.... she goes upstairs comes down, I'm
hungry, I'm not tired, I' m scared. I'm thirsty. Every excues she can think
of.


Thanks for your suggestions
karen

I wish he still napped !!!!! That would be great.... I would have 5
minutes to myslef in the afternoon. My kids never napped from the time they
were both around 2 1/2 -3, I would like it to be in his room because I
have a two storey house and it is really hard to carry him up the stairs
when he is dead weight. He doesn't want to cuddle in his room. He wants to
be with both my hubby and myself. I think that is why it is the living room.
Karen

"toto" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 10:39:38 -0400, "James and Karen Stewart"
wrote:

Also my son wants to cuddle on the couch everynight with me and fall
asleep with me. Come Sept he will be starting Junior kindergardten and
will
need to fall asleep earlier in his own bed. I have tried to suggest
cuddling in his bed but he wants to cuddle on the couch.

Earlier, perhaps, but why in his own bed?

Still, if you want to promote his room, perhaps you can move a comfy
chair in there to cuddle on?

Start waking him up at the normal time for his school now rather than
waiting until it is necessary. See if this makes his bedtime
earlier.

Also if he still naps, you can try cutting the naptime to a shorter
time or making it earlier in the day.




--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits

What do I do to enforce an earlier bedtime but using positive discipline.,
That is what do I say to hear whenshe comes out of her room, that would be
in the positive discipline form.
"It's time for bed" "let's go back to your room" " it's quiet time, shut
your eyes and relax "..... all the while she is crying because I am leaving
and she doesn't want me to leave her room because she is scared of the
monsters. " There are no monsters, nothing in this room will harm you,
goodnight"

???????

Help with this positive discipline thing ??? Please
Karen


"toto" wrote in message
...
On 27 Jul 2003 18:55:49 GMT, (GI Trekker) wrote:

What can I do to get her to go upstairs and go to bed before 10-10:30
at
night.

Take her upstairs, put her in bed at a proper time, and tell her in no
uncertain terms to STAY PUT! Then turn out the light. If she comes out of
her
room for any other reason than to go to the bathroom, there will be
punishment.

THAT'S discipline. You don't "get" a child to do something, you "make"
them do
something. Anything else is letting your children rule the home, and
that's
wrong.

No, that's not discipline. Punishment and discipline are not
synonyms.

Punishment and reward are ways of controlling behavior, but they have
unintended consequences in humans that don't actually lend themselves
to teaching self-discipline which is what most parents are aiming for.

Both punishment and reward focus on after the fact - that is after the
behavior you are trying to control has already happenned at least
once. You then attempt to modify the behavior for the next time, but
you are not addressing the reasons for the behavior and hence you
keep the locus of control external so that the child is prepared to
follow orders, but doesn't know *why* he should or what is wrong about
the behavior.

When a child makes a mistake, you correct it, but you need to teach
him why what he did is wrong. Sometimes, it is only because it
irritates you and the behavior itself is not really wrong.. In the
case of when a child should go to bed, this is certainly true.
Children as all humans *will* sleep when they are tired and the
fact that their sleep times are inconvenient for the adults is not
*wrong* and should certainly not be punished. You can encourage
them to have their sleep schedule in line with your needs, but it
doesn't help to ignore their physical needs by trying to make them
sleep on *your* schedule because *you* need time to yourself or
because *you* don't want to deal with them after a certain hour of the
day or night.

Positive discipline takes a proactive approach. You can encourage
your child to go to bed at a regular time by creating a routine that
*says* bedtime. You can also insure that he stays in his room and
plays quietly though you cannot make him sleep. The less reaction
s/he gets when s/he does come out of the room, the better, btw, unless
you intend to reinforce attention-getting behavior.



--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits

Alot of you have said stricter, but how do you get stricter, We feel like
all we do is yell, and it is makig us both feel depressed and
useless...like we may as well be talking to the wall.
When she comes out of her room we are screaming at her "get to your bed NOW
!!!" We take her back up, cover her again and shut her door, she is
crying and screaming back " I'm scared, I'm really really scared"
Then I go back in tell her " If you don't go to bed whatever you are scared
of in here is nothing to what you should be scared of ...ME!!!"
"GO TO SLEEP !!!!!!!!" the screaming continues...so how to I be more
strict without holding her down or gluing her to the bed. ??? Or geting a
strait jacket for her so she can't open the door !!....HEHE

Thanks for all suggestions

KAren



"James and Karen Stewart" wrote in message
...
Am I the only one who finds it hard to discipline the children ??? Or
is the a common problem ? I have a hard time with bed time. I want the
kids to go to bed at a certain time 8:30-9:00 would be great. I find
myself
doing bathtime, and then snack and then trying to get them into bed and
having my 6 year old tell me she is not tired...I tell her that she
doesn't
have to sleep just go to bed and read a book if she wants to.

She doesn't want to go to bed alone..she wants my husband or me to
stay
with her. Mainly the reason for this is she says she is scared in her
room
alone..... We have a two storey house and I am wondering what I can doto
make her less afraid up their alone. She doesn't read scary books or
watch
a scary show before bed, and I have gone in her closet in the dark to
prove
to her that there is nothing in there.

What can I do to get her to go upstairs and go to bed before 10-10:30 at
night.

She will be going to school everyday come Sept. so I need to get this
problem fixed.

Hubby and I haven't had even an hour or down/alone time at night for the
last 2 weeks. We are going insane...sometimes you need just a few hours
alone a week, but there is just no time for us to be alone together
lately.
Please don't suggest that we go out for supper and get a sitter...because
we
do get time alone....just not often. The kids will be going to their
grandparents for a few night and we are going away overnight in Aug. but
it's just the last two weeks have been a pain and a really trying time for
us with the kids.

Also my son wants to cuddle on the couch everynight with me and fall
asleep with me. Come Sept he will be starting Junior kindergardten and
will
need to fall asleep earlier in his own bed. I have tried to suggest
cuddling in his bed but he wants to cuddle on the couch.


Any ideas
Thanks
Karen

I was number 6, and it was always my father's job to get us to bed. We
had a ritual, as I recall bathing, brushing and a read story. If I
didn't seem ready to go to sleep promptly, he lay in bed with me, in the
dark, with my head on his arm, and we **very quietly** talked. Sometimes
he sang Swanee River, very quietly, sometimes we talked about a spider
on the ceiling (who was wandering around because he dropped his lolly
pop), or he told stories. Sometimes we did slow, even breathing
together, and relaxed one limb at a time. When I was definitely sleepy,
he'd put on the nightlight (I was terribly afraid of monsters), and tip
toe out. I think it was like a kind of child hypnosis...and took a good
part of his time, given all the years he did it for all of us.
The summer I had my niece and nephew, it was the same thing, only I
never had to lay in bed with them and talk. They did take a hour of my
nights with the ritual, however. When they seemed alittle restless, I'd
have them sleep on the porch (the 'thrill of camping') in their bags and
I'd lay on the floor this side of the door and tell them a last story
while they looked at the stars.
Personally, I'd start a ritual, staying with her until she fell asleep
if necessary, and then start paring back. But be prepared to give up an
hour of your evening. I felt just *cherished* by my father, and that was
probably the secret.
blacksalt

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 19:17:53 -0400, "James and Karen Stewart"
wrote:

There are no monsters, nothing in this room will harm you,
goodnight"

???????

No, that belittles her fears.

For monsters you can do several things. Let her do a monster
search and use a spray bottle to get rid of them... (It's just
pretend, but so what, she is only 5 or 6). Get a spray bottle
and put some colored water in it and possibly some glitter and
let it be the monster spray that makes the monsters go away.

Or get a dream catcher and tell her the story of how it catches
bad dreams and alter it a bit so that it catches monsters too.

By her her very own monster stuffed doll that can scare any
other monsters away and let her take him to bed with her.
Make up an imaginary friend who will scare the monsters
away (have her name the friend and give it whatever characteristics
will make it scary to the monsters, but lovable to her).

Or read some books where children overcome monsters.
Where the Wild Things Are by Maurice Sendak is good
There's a Monster in My Closet by Mercer Mayer is another
good book.

Make the monsters into friendly characters who she can
say goodnight to.



--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits