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do gender-neutral kids bicycles exist?



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 7th 04, 04:26 AM
Kevin Karplus
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Default do gender-neutral kids bicycles exist?

In article ,
Frank Nospam wrote:
Hello to MKM. Apologies for posting a non-joke today.

My daughter would like her first bicycle for her birthday this spring.
My wife and I think this is a great idea. We'll probably buy bikes
for ourselves as well. So which one should we choose...

Disney Princess Bike? My Little Pony Bike? Glitter Express?
The Girls Adorable? Is an ORDINARY bicycle too much to ask?

Bleah, really bothers me, poisoning children's minds about gender
differences at an age where physically it shouldn't matter. Also,
the girls bikes all looked about HALF as sturdy as the boy models.
Maybe they're actually just as capable underneath the frills, but
I'd be really leery to let ANYONE ride those bikes on dirt trails.

I'm hoping that this form of evil marketing is confined to toy stores,
and that there are other places where I can buy a good bike for her.
Suggestions?


Definitely go to a real bike shop---one that services bikes as well as
sells them. The bike will be slightly more expensive than the junk
bikes that the department stores sell, but they'll last longer and be
easier to maintain. You will also get help in fitting the bike to the
child, fitting the bike helmet, and other crucial services. The bike
store bikes I've seen have generally been fairly gender neutral, aside
from choice of paint color.



--
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Professor of Biomolecular Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
Affiliations for identification only.

  #12  
Old April 7th 04, 02:08 PM
Naomi Rivkis
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Default do gender-neutral kids bicycles exist?

On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:26:42 EDT, Kevin Karplus
wrote:

In article ,
Frank Nospam wrote:
Hello to MKM. Apologies for posting a non-joke today.

My daughter would like her first bicycle for her birthday this spring.
My wife and I think this is a great idea. We'll probably buy bikes
for ourselves as well. So which one should we choose...

Disney Princess Bike? My Little Pony Bike? Glitter Express?
The Girls Adorable? Is an ORDINARY bicycle too much to ask?

Bleah, really bothers me, poisoning children's minds about gender
differences at an age where physically it shouldn't matter. Also,
the girls bikes all looked about HALF as sturdy as the boy models.
Maybe they're actually just as capable underneath the frills, but
I'd be really leery to let ANYONE ride those bikes on dirt trails.

I'm hoping that this form of evil marketing is confined to toy stores,
and that there are other places where I can buy a good bike for her.
Suggestions?


Definitely go to a real bike shop---one that services bikes as well as
sells them. The bike will be slightly more expensive than the junk
bikes that the department stores sell, but they'll last longer and be
easier to maintain. You will also get help in fitting the bike to the
child, fitting the bike helmet, and other crucial services. The bike
store bikes I've seen have generally been fairly gender neutral, aside
from choice of paint color.


An important note about bikes: the so-called "girls' bike" frame, with
the sloping front crossbar, is an archaic holdover. It's *not* as
sturdy as the boys', and its only real purpose is to let a lady ride
in a skirt. If your daughter is not planning to ride her bike while
wearing a skirt, the bikes made for boys are as good or better.

There *is* a company that makes bicycles which are actually designed
for women -- they take into account the slightly different
proportioning and very different center of gravity and weight
distribution between the genders. They make no-nonsense performance
bikes designed by female bike racers, and their name is Terry, but
they don't, AFAIK, make children's bikes, nor should it be necessary,
since most of the physiological differences they account for don't hit
until puberty. But later on, when your daughter's a teenager, you
might want to know about them. Meanwhile, if she can live with the
funny looks some idiots will give her for not having a Barbie bike,
I'd go with a good solid boy's model, which are both often more
gender-neutral in theme (though not always) and stronger-made.

Naomi

  #13  
Old April 7th 04, 06:13 PM
Penny Gaines
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Default do gender-neutral kids bicycles exist?

Naomi Rivkis wrote in :

An important note about bikes: the so-called "girls' bike" frame, with
the sloping front crossbar, is an archaic holdover. It's not as
sturdy as the boys', and its only real purpose is to let a lady ride
in a skirt. If your daughter is not planning to ride her bike while
wearing a skirt, the bikes made for boys are as good or better.


If your girl has skirts (or dresses) for normal playing, my inclination
would be to assume that she will sometimes want to ride a bike wearing
a skirt. With my girls, they often wear skirts, and if they had to change
before going on their bikes, the bikes would never get ridden. They tend to
spend 10 minutes on their bikes, then swop to other playing.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

  #14  
Old April 7th 04, 09:51 PM
Naomi Rivkis
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Default do gender-neutral kids bicycles exist?

On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:13:00 EDT, Penny Gaines
wrote:

Naomi Rivkis wrote in :

An important note about bikes: the so-called "girls' bike" frame, with
the sloping front crossbar, is an archaic holdover. It's not as
sturdy as the boys', and its only real purpose is to let a lady ride
in a skirt. If your daughter is not planning to ride her bike while
wearing a skirt, the bikes made for boys are as good or better.


If your girl has skirts (or dresses) for normal playing, my inclination
would be to assume that she will sometimes want to ride a bike wearing
a skirt. With my girls, they often wear skirts, and if they had to change
before going on their bikes, the bikes would never get ridden. They tend to
spend 10 minutes on their bikes, then swop to other playing.


True. The kids I know, boys or girls, wear jeans or shorts for playing
depending on the weather. I don't think I've ever seen a little girl
of my acquaintance wear a dress except for fancy occasions. YMMV.

Naomi

  #15  
Old April 7th 04, 11:19 PM
Kevin Karplus
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Default do gender-neutral kids bicycles exist?

In article , Penny Gaines wrote:
Naomi Rivkis wrote in :

An important note about bikes: the so-called "girls' bike" frame, with
the sloping front crossbar, is an archaic holdover. It's not as
sturdy as the boys', and its only real purpose is to let a lady ride
in a skirt. If your daughter is not planning to ride her bike while
wearing a skirt, the bikes made for boys are as good or better.


If your girl has skirts (or dresses) for normal playing, my inclination
would be to assume that she will sometimes want to ride a bike wearing
a skirt. With my girls, they often wear skirts, and if they had to change
before going on their bikes, the bikes would never get ridden. They tend to
spend 10 minutes on their bikes, then swop to other playing.


There is another reason for the step-through frames, besides riding in
skirts. They allow easier mounting and dismounting, especially for
people with somewhat stiff hips. Although this may not matter much to
most kids, it does matter for us older riders! The mixte frame, with
a top tube that runs from the front headset to the rear wheel, offers
a good compromise between the stiffness of the diamond frame and the
ease of mounting a step-through frame. The mixte frame is a better
solution to difficulty in mounting than using a frame that is much too
small. (I ride a recumbent, which is even easier to mount than a mixte
frame.) A good bike shop could explain the advantages and
disadvantages of the different framestyles--not only to the parent,
but to the rider, who may need to be convinced to get a better bike.

Most kid's bikes are made with very soft steel, to save money, and so
are enormously heavy. There are some kid's bikes made with better
materials and lighter weight, but not all bike shops carry them. It
is worth asking around if you live in a hilly area, where having a kid
have to pull a bike uphill that weighs more than they do is really
unreasonable.

--
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Professor of Biomolecular Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
Affiliations for identification only.

  #16  
Old April 12th 04, 02:42 AM
Christopher Biow
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Default [META] do gender-neutral kids bicycles exist?

[brackets added to distinguish word usages]

dragonlady wrote:
"Jeff" wrote:
"Frank Nospam" wrote


Bleah, really bothers me, poisoning children's minds about gender [2b]
differences at an age where physically it shouldn't matter.


I would encourage kids of either sex (not gender -- gender[1a] refers to
adjectives and nouns, not people)...


Huh?


Gender[2ab] IS a human issue --


And the usage of words is a semantic issue.

While the *primary* English usage of "gender" is grammatical, secondary
usages cover everything from wiring connectors to humans. Merriam-Webster
gives:

|Main Entry: 1gen·der
|Pronunciation: 'jen-d&r
|Function: noun
|Etymology: Middle English gendre, from Middle French genre, gendre, from
|Latin gener-, genus birth, race, kind, gender -- more at KIN
|1 a : a subclass within a grammatical class (as noun, pronoun, adjective,
|or verb) of a language that is partly arbitrary but also partly based on
|distinguishable characteristics (as shape, social rank, manner of
|existence, or sex) and that determines agreement with and selection of
|other words or grammatical forms b : membership of a word or a grammatical
|form in such a subclass c : an inflectional form showing membership in such
|a subclass
|2 a : SEX the feminine gender b : the behavioral, cultural, or
|psychological traits typically associated with one sex

So I think Dragonlady wins the rubber cookie on this one. Interesting that
the Latin etymology was much more generalized than common modern English
usage (yes, etymology is not semantics).

And below, I'd say the usages are more specialized than 2a and 2b above,
perhaps demonstrating that the word has become overloaded to the point
where confusion and contention are inevitable. Maybe it is best to specify
the particular usage intended the first time such a word is used in a rare
or specialized manner.

...especially since biological sex and a
person's gender identity are not always congruent, we absolutly need the
concept of gender for human beings. (For that matter, neither
biological sex nor gender identity are strictly binary states, but
that's a whole other topic!)


  #17  
Old April 12th 04, 09:14 PM
Rosalie B.
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Default do gender-neutral kids bicycles exist?

x-no-archive:yes


Naomi Rivkis wrote:

On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:13:00 EDT, Penny Gaines
wrote:

Naomi Rivkis wrote in :

An important note about bikes: the so-called "girls' bike" frame, with
the sloping front crossbar, is an archaic holdover. It's not as
sturdy as the boys', and its only real purpose is to let a lady ride
in a skirt. If your daughter is not planning to ride her bike while
wearing a skirt, the bikes made for boys are as good or better.


If your girl has skirts (or dresses) for normal playing, my inclination
would be to assume that she will sometimes want to ride a bike wearing
a skirt. With my girls, they often wear skirts, and if they had to change
before going on their bikes, the bikes would never get ridden. They tend to
spend 10 minutes on their bikes, then swop to other playing.


True. The kids I know, boys or girls, wear jeans or shorts for playing
depending on the weather. I don't think I've ever seen a little girl
of my acquaintance wear a dress except for fancy occasions. YMMV.


When I was growing up, girls did not wear jeans or shorts or any kind
of trousers to school. My friends almost always changed to jeans when
they got home. We did not. My mom felt that if I was going to be
comfortable in skirts, that I should wear them for play as well as
school. I did wear shorts in the summer, but I did not routinely
change clothes for play.

Some of my girls wore dresses and my granddaughters sometimes wear
dresses, so I would not automatically eschew a girls bike.


grandma Rosalie

 




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