DS Refusing to BF to sleep--what now? (long)

Those who have noted that the one certainty regarding babies/toddlers is
change are so right. . . .

DS is a little over 13 months old. We have always nursed to sleep, both for
naps and night sleep. At night, we cosleep. A normal-ish night would be
nurse to sleep at 10 pm, nurse 1-3 times during the night (without his
waking), nurse around dawn, wake somewhere around 7-8 am, nurse, then get up
for the day. Naps have usually consisted of DS sleeping on me after having
nursed to sleep--usually a one-hour nap in the late morning/early afternoon
and a late afternoon/early evening 2-hour nap. (Exceptions: sleeping on DH
after being rocked to sleep; sleeping in stroller or car)

This arrangement has worked fairly well for us, especially at night, since I
get to sleep through much of the nursing. But the past few nights, things
have been a bit different. Normally, DS will nurse, then unlatch himself,
roll onto his back and be conked. But the last few nights, while things
seemed to begin normally, he'd roll toward me again, latch on some more,
unlatch, squirm, repeat the latch/unlatch a few times, then become frantic.
If I tried getting him to nurse some more, he'd just scream. He was
definitely tired and wanted desperately to sleep, rubbing his eyes and
climbing onto me. The only way I was able to get him to go to sleep was to
rock him. The problem then is that I'm sitting up, yet exhausted, and
somehow I have to get him back down onto the bed without waking him. The
usual advice to wait until he's nice and floppy is a problem since I'm dead
tired myself and liable to fall asleep sitting. I was somehow able to coax
him back into a lying-down position after this last night, but he had a
middle-of-the night waking and we had to repeat the process, since again he
refused to nurse.

I'm going to request _The No-Cry Sleep Solution_ from my library (I need to
get it through interlibrary loan), but from what posters here have said
about it, it seems as though it emphasizes moving away from the nurse/sleep
cycle. I'd be quite happy to continue/encourage that cycle, but it seems DS
might be moving away from it on his own, but without being able to get
himself to sleep without some other kind of parental intervention. I'm
hoping there's something I can do other than rocking? Have others here
dealt with this situation?

Also: I've had a couple of instances where he's clearly tired during the
day but doesn't want to nurse, and I've rocked him to sleep in my chair.
This isn't so problematic, but I thought it was worth noting. He does, for
the most part, still nurse to sleep for naps (though who knows whether that
might suddenly change?).
--
Belphoebe

"Belphoebe" wrote in message ...
Those who have noted that the one certainty regarding babies/toddlers is
change are so right. . . .

DS is a little over 13 months old. We have always nursed to sleep, both for
naps and night sleep. At night, we cosleep. A normal-ish night would be
nurse to sleep at 10 pm, nurse 1-3 times during the night (without his
waking), nurse around dawn, wake somewhere around 7-8 am, nurse, then get up
for the day. Naps have usually consisted of DS sleeping on me after having
nursed to sleep--usually a one-hour nap in the late morning/early afternoon
and a late afternoon/early evening 2-hour nap. (Exceptions: sleeping on DH
after being rocked to sleep; sleeping in stroller or car)

This arrangement has worked fairly well for us, especially at night, since I
get to sleep through much of the nursing. But the past few nights, things
have been a bit different. Normally, DS will nurse, then unlatch himself,
roll onto his back and be conked. But the last few nights, while things
seemed to begin normally, he'd roll toward me again, latch on some more,
unlatch, squirm, repeat the latch/unlatch a few times, then become frantic.
If I tried getting him to nurse some more, he'd just scream. He was
definitely tired and wanted desperately to sleep, rubbing his eyes and
climbing onto me. The only way I was able to get him to go to sleep was to
rock him. The problem then is that I'm sitting up, yet exhausted, and
somehow I have to get him back down onto the bed without waking him. The
usual advice to wait until he's nice and floppy is a problem since I'm dead
tired myself and liable to fall asleep sitting. I was somehow able to coax
him back into a lying-down position after this last night, but he had a
middle-of-the night waking and we had to repeat the process, since again he
refused to nurse.

I'm going to request _The No-Cry Sleep Solution_ from my library (I need to
get it through interlibrary loan), but from what posters here have said
about it, it seems as though it emphasizes moving away from the nurse/sleep
cycle. I'd be quite happy to continue/encourage that cycle, but it seems DS
might be moving away from it on his own, but without being able to get
himself to sleep without some other kind of parental intervention. I'm
hoping there's something I can do other than rocking? Have others here
dealt with this situation?

My 8-month-old does the same thing; although, he has been doing it for
a while and quite regularly. He doesn't have a strong connection
between nursing and sleeping though. He goes to day care, so he
obviously isn't nursed down for naps there. He falls asleep easily
when rocked. When I put him to sleep at night, I usually rock him for
a moment first and then latch him on. He usually only eats from the
first side for a few minutes and then starts screaming. I then rocking
him some more to calm him and offer him the other side. Sometimes,
he'll take that side for a little longer before the screaming begins
again. We go through this cycle several times. He's rubbing his eyes
the whole time and he'll drift to sleep a little as I rock him.
Sometimes, if I nudge him towards the nipple when he's drowsing off,
he'll latch on and be fine. Other times, he freaks out. I don't have
an answer for you - but it is hard to deal with.

Manda

Belphoebe writes:

: This arrangement has worked fairly well for us, especially at night, since I
: get to sleep through much of the nursing. But the past few nights, things
: have been a bit different. Normally, DS will nurse, then unlatch himself,
: roll onto his back and be conked. But the last few nights, while things
: seemed to begin normally, he'd roll toward me again, latch on some more,
: unlatch, squirm, repeat the latch/unlatch a few times, then become frantic.
: If I tried getting him to nurse some more, he'd just scream. He was
: definitely tired and wanted desperately to sleep, rubbing his eyes and
: climbing onto me. The only way I was able to get him to go to sleep was to
: rock him. The problem then is that I'm sitting up, yet exhausted, and
: somehow I have to get him back down onto the bed without waking him. The
: usual advice to wait until he's nice and floppy is a problem since I'm dead
: tired myself and liable to fall asleep sitting. I was somehow able to coax
: him back into a lying-down position after this last night, but he had a
: middle-of-the night waking and we had to repeat the process, since again he
: refused to nurse.

I don't know if this will work, but instead of getting up and rocking him,
you might try turning him on his stomach and rubbing/massaging his back
until he goes to sleep. At least, if it works, you won't have to get
out of bed.

Good luck,
Larry

Normally, DS will nurse, then unlatch himself,
roll onto his back and be conked. But the last few nights, while things
seemed to begin normally, he'd roll toward me again, latch on some more,
unlatch, squirm, repeat the latch/unlatch a few times, then become frantic.
If I tried getting him to nurse some more, he'd just scream. He was
definitely tired and wanted desperately to sleep, rubbing his eyes and
climbing onto me. The only way I was able to get him to go to sleep was to
rock him. The problem then is that I'm sitting up, yet exhausted, and
somehow I have to get him back down onto the bed without waking him.

I would suspect teething, illness, or some other source of annoying pain that's
keeping him from settling down. With my DS it was always teething, but it
could be a stuffy nose keeping him from breathing comfortably, a sunburn, or
for all I know "growing pains" in his legs. Any of those things can make it
tough for an adult to fall asleep, after all.

Or possibly it's that he's just overtired and keyed up when you start; that
would be my first guess if the last few days have been especially busy or
there's been some disruption to his routine.

If you think it could be teething or a cold, try using appropriate medications
at bedtime; if it could be overstimulation, try winding down for bed a little
earlier.

Either way, the good news is it's likely to get better on its own soon! I try
never to get too crazed over anything that's only lasted a few days, since the
pattern often changes again before I could really do anything about it anyway.
;-)

Holly
Mom to Camden, 3yo
EDD #2 6/8/04

Larry McMahan wrote:

I don't know if this will work, but instead of getting up and rocking
him, you might try turning him on his stomach and rubbing/massaging
his back until he goes to sleep. At least, if it works, you won't
have to get
out of bed.

Thanks, Larry. I'll try it, but DS's tendency when he's tummy-down is to
push up and sit, even when he's very tired (silly boy!).

--
Belphoebe

"Belphoebe" skrev i en meddelelse
...
Larry McMahan wrote:

I don't know if this will work, but instead of getting up and rocking
him, you might try turning him on his stomach and rubbing/massaging
his back until he goes to sleep. At least, if it works, you won't
have to get
out of bed.

Thanks, Larry. I'll try it, but DS's tendency when he's tummy-down is to
push up and sit, even when he's very tired (silly boy!).

My kids just adore to have their backs ticled/scratched. If I do that I can
make them be silent and un-moving for ages.

They are 6 and 11 yo :-D

Tine, Denmark

HollyLewis wrote:

I would suspect teething, illness, or some other source of annoying
pain that's keeping him from settling down. With my DS it was always
teething, but it could be a stuffy nose keeping him from breathing
comfortably, a sunburn, or for all I know "growing pains" in his
legs. Any of those things can make it tough for an adult to fall
asleep, after all.

Hmmm. He has gone through a prolonged bout of teething of late, and his new
tooth has just poked through. Maybe it's still bothering him. We'll try
bedtime Tylenol.

Or possibly it's that he's just overtired and keyed up when you
start; that would be my first guess if the last few days have been
especially busy or there's been some disruption to his routine.

Overtired/keyed up are also quite possible. Just this past week we've
somewhat expanded his "roaming" horizons. We used to keep him gated in the
living room, and this week, we've been opening the gate and allowing him to
roam into the dining room and kitchen. This has been tremendously exciting
to him.

If you think it could be teething or a cold, try using appropriate
medications at bedtime; if it could be overstimulation, try winding
down for bed a little earlier.

Maybe try a bit of both. . . . (He's now watching me type this--you can't
read yet, can you, sweetie?)

Either way, the good news is it's likely to get better on its own
soon! I try never to get too crazed over anything that's only lasted
a few days, since the pattern often changes again before I could
really do anything about it anyway. ;-)

Good point--this wouldn't be the first time I thought I was spotting a new
trend, only to have things renormalize.

Thanks for your suggestions. It's hard to think straight when you're tired.

--
Belphoebe

wrote:

Sometimes, if I nudge him towards the nipple when he's drowsing off,
he'll latch on and be fine. Other times, he freaks out. I don't have
an answer for you - but it is hard to deal with.

It's good to know, I'm not alone, though.

--
Belphoebe

"Belphoebe" wrote in message ...

But the last few nights, while things
seemed to begin normally, he'd roll toward me again, latch on some more,
unlatch, squirm, repeat the latch/unlatch a few times, then become frantic.

When DS does this it's almost always because something hurts.
Generally it can be resolved with Tylenol and/or time, because either
he's got gas, he's teething, or he's sick.

Any chance he has an upset tummy?

--
C, mama to seventeen month old nursling

wrote in message
om...
He's rubbing his eyes the whole time and he'll drift
to sleep a little as I rock him. Sometimes, if I nudge
him towards the nipple when he's drowsing off,
he'll latch on and be fine. Other times, he freaks out.

Rubbing eyes is a late sleep cue. Have you tried putting him to bed 1/2
hour earlier (if this is possible)?
--
Cheryl S.
Mom to Julie, 3, and Jaden, 7 months