Anti-homeschooling

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:42:51 -0600, Michelle J. Haines
wrote:

Hi, again --

On thinking again about homeschooling (NOT something I personally have
the energy for, but I've seen excellent results from friends who do it)
my major concern would not be about the average homeschooler, but how do
you ferret out the people who merely SAY they're homeschooling, but are
really abusing the concept?

Each state has their own homeschooling requirements. You could
certainly get away with that in some states, couldn't in others.
Texas doesn't require any reporting at all, and Wyoming is pretty
lax. Other states require standardized testing, portfolios, and
regular semester visits from someone inspecting the homeschooling
stuff.

Homeschoolers actively fight having requirements though.

While I don't know how you ferret them out, I know some examples
from people I met online. I am in contact with both of these people
offline as well now, though we met online. Most of the homeschooled
kids I have met are doing well, bright and happy, but..

One young man (now 23), was *homeschooled* after he was
had problems in 3rd grade. He never finished his education.
He is very bright, but hasn't got his GED and cannot find a job.
He was pulled out of school in Georgia, moved around, never
was reregistered, never did any schooling beyond what he
learned online after he was pulled out, though his mom told
the authorities in Georgia and in Florida that she was
homeschooling him.

Another young girl (now 13), was homeschooled in
Colorado - unfortunately, this was a situation where she was
being abused not schooled - her parents are now in jail and
she is in school. Again, she is very bright, but has a lot of
gaps in her knowledge base and her learning because she
was being trained to be obedient and not to question
anyrhing her father told her. And because of the abuse, she
is not able to function well in social situations.

I am sure these are exceptions to the rule. Homeschooling
is not a bad thing in general, but it can be *used* to cover a
myriad of sins.

The other thing to remember is that some children begin to
be homeschooled and when the parents fail at it, the child
comes back into the public school system with no penalty,
but well behind his peers. Several of my teacher friends
have encountered this problem.




--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits

For what it's worth, I just ran a few searches on google for sites that
oppose home schooling. I found zilch. So, those of you who suggested
"just use google" ... where IS there any information that suggests home
schooling might not be ideal, or under what circumstances it might not
be a good idea?

Did you see my post on how to figure this out from *pro*-homeschooling sites?
It's really not that tough. I should think it is *exactly* the kind of practice
that someone taking debate really needs, and very likely is one reason why this
topic was chosen.

--Helen

Michelle J. Haines wrote in message .. .
In article ,
says...

Part of the research process is asking questions. I had to interview
people for information when I was a kid. I would have been in a sorry
state if the people I chose to interview said "do your own homework."

And you know what? If she had asked to interview us, I'm sure she
would have gotten some enthusiastic responses. She didn't ask for
that. She asked us to do her basic research for her -- telling her
were to find articles, what books she should read, etc. She can do
that research just as well as the rest of us.

If you don't want to be helpful to her, why did you post anything?

Think about how you would feel, right now, if you are having a
difficulty with one of your little ones, and the response from the net
was "go to the library, and do your own research!" I doubt you'd feel
good.

And if she had posed as a parent...say, "my husband and I are at odds
about homeschooling, and I'd like URLS both for and against it" we
would have jumped all over ourselves to help. Same info, different
way to request it. Her mistake was letting parents know she was doing
homework. Poor kid. Honesty was her downfall.

And honestly, getting some URLs and titles doesn't remove the bulk of
the work. She still has to read it, and gather the info into a
coherent speech. AND providing a piddly URL will show her how the web
is connected. One Url can lead her to many others.

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01

Joni Rathbun wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003, dragonlady wrote:

In article ,
(Beth Kevles) wrote:

For what it's worth, I just ran a few searches on google for sites that
oppose home schooling. I found zilch. So, those of you who suggested
"just use google" ... where IS there any information that suggests home
schooling might not be ideal, or under what circumstances it might not
be a good idea? (And what search terms did you actually use? Mine
didn't work ...) No fair just pulling up some URLs from memory ...

--Beth Kevles


I rememebr seeeing issues of Time and Newsweek in the last few years
featuring homeschoolimg- that also might be a source.

In article ,
h says...

Homeschoolers actively fight having requirements though.

Yup, we do. We had a big fight here in Wyoming for the last
legislature session, as a matter of fact. They wanted to lower the
required age of schooling, institute mandatory standardized testing
and portfolios, and requiring remedial education plans for kids that
were behind. Which could make homeschooling your learning disabled
children rather difficult.

One young man (now 23), was *homeschooled* after he was
had problems in 3rd grade. He never finished his education.
He is very bright, but hasn't got his GED and cannot find a job.
He was pulled out of school in Georgia, moved around, never
was reregistered, never did any schooling beyond what he
learned online after he was pulled out, though his mom told
the authorities in Georgia and in Florida that she was
homeschooling him.

Another young girl (now 13), was homeschooled in
Colorado - unfortunately, this was a situation where she was
being abused not schooled - her parents are now in jail and
she is in school. Again, she is very bright, but has a lot of
gaps in her knowledge base and her learning because she
was being trained to be obedient and not to question
anyrhing her father told her. And because of the abuse, she
is not able to function well in social situations.

You can find very similar cases of both kinds in public schools. Any
system can be abused.

The other thing to remember is that some children begin to
be homeschooled and when the parents fail at it, the child
comes back into the public school system with no penalty,
but well behind his peers. Several of my teacher friends
have encountered this problem.

Yes. My MIL harps about it all the time. But kids come to new
schools way behind when transferring from other public schools, too.

Michelle
Flutist

--
In my heart. By my side.
Never apart. AP with Pride!
Katrina Marie (10/19/96)
Xander Ryan (09/22/98 - 02/23/99)
Gareth Xander (07/17/00)
Zachary Mitchell (01/12/94, began fostering 09/05/01)
Theona Alexis (06/03/03)

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:04:59 -0600, Michelle J. Haines
wrote:

But kids come to new
schools way behind when transferring from other public schools, too.

I had a friend in Texas who transferred to our public school from
another state. She was VERY, VERY far behind us. It wasn't her
fault. She was a straight A student at her old school. Her old
school just wasn't as advanced as ours.

--
==Daye==
Momma to Jayan
#2 EDD 11 Jan 2004
E-mail: brendana AT labyrinth DOT net DOT au

In article ,
says...

And honestly, getting some URLs and titles doesn't remove the bulk of
the work. She still has to read it, and gather the info into a
coherent speech. AND providing a piddly URL will show her how the web
is connected. One Url can lead her to many others.

If she's posting the questions to Usenet, she's fairly computer savvy
as it is. A lot of adults I know say, "Huh?" when I bring up Usenet.
Isn't everything on the web, ya know?

And other parents aren't being graded on her research and
presentation skills. She is.

Michelle
Flutist

--
In my heart. By my side.
Never apart. AP with Pride!
Katrina Marie (10/19/96)
Xander Ryan (09/22/98 - 02/23/99)
Gareth Xander (07/17/00)
Zachary Mitchell (01/12/94, began fostering 09/05/01)
Theona Alexis (06/03/03)

"Michelle J. Haines" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

And honestly, getting some URLs and titles doesn't remove the bulk of
the work. She still has to read it, and gather the info into a
coherent speech. AND providing a piddly URL will show her how the web
is connected. One Url can lead her to many others.

If she's posting the questions to Usenet, she's fairly computer savvy
as it is. A lot of adults I know say, "Huh?" when I bring up Usenet.
Isn't everything on the web, ya know?

And other parents aren't being graded on her research and
presentation skills. She is.

Why isn't asking on here considered a viable research tool?

Judy

Hi, again -

Michelle, "arguments against homeschooling" isn't a search term I'd have
thought of, but it worked! It led me to a paper by Robert Reich (which
I couldn't even manage to get the abstract of online, but I know I could
find it in print if I try hard enough) and the review of a book that
looked useful.

I still haven't located any statistics about how well homeschool kids do
and under what circumstances homeschooling works/doesn't work. Plenty
of anecdotes, but no data. Since this is strictly an intellectual
exercise for me I'll probably stop my research here. (I just wanted to
know what that kid could, in fact, have found online. And the short
answer is, it's NOT at all obvious how to find anything that way. But
it can be done.)

Thanks, all, for your thoughts.
--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

x-no-archive:yes ==Daye== wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:04:59 -0600, Michelle J. Haines
wrote:

But kids come to new
schools way behind when transferring from other public schools, too.

I had a friend in Texas who transferred to our public school from
another state. She was VERY, VERY far behind us. It wasn't her
fault. She was a straight A student at her old school. Her old
school just wasn't as advanced as ours.

This is often a problem for kids that transfer, especially between
countries. My dd is afraid that her son transferring to MD from
England will be completely behind in stuff that we take for granted
that the kids absorb as part of our culture - like the story about the
Pilgrims and Plymouth Rock, our Civil War etc. Knowing about Guy
Fawkes Day or the War of the Roses isn't the same. He's also
unpracticed in the sports we customarily have here, although we do
have more soccer football now.

My dds had the most problem transferring between Maryland and RI. And
it wasn't exactly because one school was more advanced. The 2nd
grader was already doing cursive and RI didn't start until 3rd grade
and they insisted that she print. The 4th grader was behind in long
division but she had to give up instrumental music because RI didn't
have it until 7th grade, where MD started in 3rd grade. But the RI
school had a gymnastics program (which MD doesn't).




grandma Rosalie