Help! Too many breastfeeding problems - conclusion

In-Reply-To:

This post may not get threaded properly - Google wouldn't let me
"reply" to a message from four months ago.

Anyway, as the parent of a 4 month old, I wanted to follow up to a
post showing our desperation about 4 months ago:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...%26scoring%3Dd

Thanks to everyone who replied with suggestions.

In the end, everything was a success.

Here's what happened (sort-of in point form):

From birth, our baby had a strong preference for having her hands up
in front of her face - probably the way she was in the womb.

Babies are strong, and aside from not being born knowing how to
breastfeed, the hands-in-the-face tendency made it virtually
impossible for a new mother to get a good latch or any kind of
breastfeeding going.

We tried everything we could think of, and got all the help we could,
and the stress on my wife was huge. After a week or so, the baby's
weight had dipped (but not by 10%) and we were worried, and the doctor
advised supplementing with some formula, and getting a breast pump.

Our baby did not like feeding from a bottle either, so we also used a
finger-tube-syringe system, while trying different bottles.

We ended up using formula 3 or 4 times in the first 2 weeks, when we
thought she was hungry, and didn't have enough milk pumped, and my
wife was too stressed to keep fighting with the baby who wouldn't get
on properly or stay on. She really didn't like the formula very much,
but when she was hungry, she would take it (while pushing half of it
out of her mouth during feeding).

By 4 weeks, my wife said she hated me for "forcing" her to keep trying
with the breastfeeding, which was still very stressful but working a
little better at this point and the baby's weight was gaining well.
The baby had the perfect number of wet and dirty diapers, but my wife
was still believing it "wasn't working", even though they were having
somewhat more routine feedings with not-too-bad latches. She had been
an avid breastfeeding advocate before this, but the experience is so
difficult that she really wanted to quit, and I was trying to
encourage her to keep trying whenever she felt up to it, rather than
quit altogether.

By 6 weeks, the baby suddenly acted like she was a breastfeeding
expert, with a picture perfect latch, the ability to go on and off the
breast easily during a feed (sometimes stopping to smack her lips like
a gourmet), sometimes use her fists to squeeze mom's breast to get a
little extra, and often just fell asleep still latched after a good
meal. My wife was suddenly super-relaxed and happy when
breastfeeding, and this helped her to deal with all the other stresses
on a new parent. She still felt I put too much pressure on her
earlier, but was thankful I did based on the end result. It was
amazing how it was almost an overnight difference when my wife
suddenly said "Hey - it's working now!"



My advice to others having lots of trouble:
-There is no need to worry about your baby's weight dipping after
birth unless it's more than 10% - it's hard to believe this as a new
parent, but it's true.
Keep track of what happens in every diaper - this is one way to be
sure they are not being malnourished while the baby and the mother's
body try to figure out breastfeeding. See a nurse or baby books for
details.

-If you really want to breastfeed, I would try to avoid using formula,
but don't feel bad if you feel you have to - just keep also trying
with the breastfeeding. Breast milk tastes better and sweeter, so I'd
bet most babies won't become worse breastfeeders just because they get
a taste of formula. I would use a canned ready-made one for
convenience at first (you don't have time to mix powder, and you might
get it wrong if you are very tired), and choose one that is "easier
for babies to digest".

-*Make sure the mother gets some sleep! Neither parent will sleep
that well for the first month or two, and it's really hard, but if you
want breastfeeding to work, the father should take as much time off
work as possible, and if they aren't too dominating, invite your
relatives to help babysit while you crash in the other room. Even if
the father still works, he should sacrifice a lot of sleep to help the
mother at first. We had really good days when my wife got decent
sleep, and really bad ones when she didn't. This is a really good
argument for trying bottles (either pumped breast milk or formula) a
couple times a day, since the mother is the only one with the working
breasts

-continuing the above - you won't have time to to prepare dinners, so
even if you are a health-nut, get some healthy frozen dinners, or get
your friends/relatives to make stuff for you and bring it over.
Friends/relatives are good for helping the mother get sleep during the
day sometimes, too.

-*Rent an electric hospital-grade pump (from a hospital pharmacy
maybe) as soon as possible after birth. This will help your milk come
in (which can take weeks to be fully flowing!), and will let you
bottle feed with the good stuff. Don't be discouraged if you can
hardly pump anything the first few times - one day it just comes in.
The vast majority of new mothers will have enough milk soon enough,
yet they often believe they don't, due to the difficulty of the whole
situation. If you are really worried, there are some safe drugs
(fenugreek, I think?) and probably some common herbs and things
available to increase milk supply, but you will probably find it's
unnecessary. Seriously try having a half beer or glass of wine to
help you relax and learn that "let-down" reflex. (careful with wine,
though, our baby really gets upset when feeding after mom had some red
wine - don't know why)

-When you sit down, get comfortable and keep trying different
baby-holds if you don't think one of them is working well. Many
people will insist that x or y is the "right way", but if you try it
and don't like it, just do whatever works for you.

-Get as much help as you can every day, at first. Try often, because
the more sucking, the more the mother's milk will want to fully come
in. Also, if the baby is not desperately starving and crying, it's
easier to try to get her on.
Learn how to do hand-compressions of your breast - they can be very
useful early-on. Soon you'll be shooting sprays of milk across the
room

-Get appointments with lactation consultants or nurses from any source
possible: Your hospital, your city/region's public health office,
breastfeeding clinics in other hospitals, your mom?, and I recommend
La Leche League. Some people feel some La Leche groups are too
rabidly anti-formula, but we found they were very helpful,
understanding, and reasonable in our area, and they provided a lot of
support, and many have been through the same problems as you. Try
Nurses or Lactation Consultants before going to doctors - for some
reason, doctors are very quick to just prescribe formula and they
usually don't know anything about breastfeeding, except from a book.
However, we did get some good help from the Dr. Jack Newman clinic in
Toronto. They were very militant, and rabidly anti-formula, but they
are breastfeeding experts and did teach us a thing or two.

A lot of the sources I mentioned above are free or cheap (in Canada,
anyway). Renting the hospital-grade pump was more expensive, but
worth it if you look at the cost of one week of formula. Once you are
good at pumping, you can buy a cheaper hand-pump. The Avent one
worked really well for my wife, and if the handle squeaks, they mail
you a new one for free.

Anyway, best of luck, breastfeeding is very rewarding for mother and
baby, but try not to stress if it doesn't work at first - all you can
do is try your best as long as you can (just because you might use
formula doesn't mean you can't keep trying breastfeeding too), and if
it ends up working, it'll be worth the struggle.

David

Well done David! It is good to hear of such a supportive husband,
particularly when your wife seemed to have so many problems. I am glad
that everything has worked out for your family.

It is not always easy to breastfeed, both us mothers and the babies need
to learn.

Larissa
mum to
DD feb 99
DS mar 01
DD dec 03

David C wrote:
In-Reply-To:

This post may not get threaded properly - Google wouldn't let me
"reply" to a message from four months ago.

Anyway, as the parent of a 4 month old, I wanted to follow up to a
post showing our desperation about 4 months ago:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...%26scoring%3Dd

Thanks to everyone who replied with suggestions.

In the end, everything was a success.

Here's what happened (sort-of in point form):

From birth, our baby had a strong preference for having her hands up
in front of her face - probably the way she was in the womb.

Babies are strong, and aside from not being born knowing how to
breastfeed, the hands-in-the-face tendency made it virtually
impossible for a new mother to get a good latch or any kind of
breastfeeding going.

We tried everything we could think of, and got all the help we could,
and the stress on my wife was huge. After a week or so, the baby's
weight had dipped (but not by 10%) and we were worried, and the doctor
advised supplementing with some formula, and getting a breast pump.

Our baby did not like feeding from a bottle either, so we also used a
finger-tube-syringe system, while trying different bottles.

We ended up using formula 3 or 4 times in the first 2 weeks, when we
thought she was hungry, and didn't have enough milk pumped, and my
wife was too stressed to keep fighting with the baby who wouldn't get
on properly or stay on. She really didn't like the formula very much,
but when she was hungry, she would take it (while pushing half of it
out of her mouth during feeding).

By 4 weeks, my wife said she hated me for "forcing" her to keep trying
with the breastfeeding, which was still very stressful but working a
little better at this point and the baby's weight was gaining well.
The baby had the perfect number of wet and dirty diapers, but my wife
was still believing it "wasn't working", even though they were having
somewhat more routine feedings with not-too-bad latches. She had been
an avid breastfeeding advocate before this, but the experience is so
difficult that she really wanted to quit, and I was trying to
encourage her to keep trying whenever she felt up to it, rather than
quit altogether.

By 6 weeks, the baby suddenly acted like she was a breastfeeding
expert, with a picture perfect latch, the ability to go on and off the
breast easily during a feed (sometimes stopping to smack her lips like
a gourmet), sometimes use her fists to squeeze mom's breast to get a
little extra, and often just fell asleep still latched after a good
meal. My wife was suddenly super-relaxed and happy when
breastfeeding, and this helped her to deal with all the other stresses
on a new parent. She still felt I put too much pressure on her
earlier, but was thankful I did based on the end result. It was
amazing how it was almost an overnight difference when my wife
suddenly said "Hey - it's working now!"



My advice to others having lots of trouble:
-There is no need to worry about your baby's weight dipping after
birth unless it's more than 10% - it's hard to believe this as a new
parent, but it's true.
Keep track of what happens in every diaper - this is one way to be
sure they are not being malnourished while the baby and the mother's
body try to figure out breastfeeding. See a nurse or baby books for
details.

-If you really want to breastfeed, I would try to avoid using formula,
but don't feel bad if you feel you have to - just keep also trying
with the breastfeeding. Breast milk tastes better and sweeter, so I'd
bet most babies won't become worse breastfeeders just because they get
a taste of formula. I would use a canned ready-made one for
convenience at first (you don't have time to mix powder, and you might
get it wrong if you are very tired), and choose one that is "easier
for babies to digest".

-*Make sure the mother gets some sleep! Neither parent will sleep
that well for the first month or two, and it's really hard, but if you
want breastfeeding to work, the father should take as much time off
work as possible, and if they aren't too dominating, invite your
relatives to help babysit while you crash in the other room. Even if
the father still works, he should sacrifice a lot of sleep to help the
mother at first. We had really good days when my wife got decent
sleep, and really bad ones when she didn't. This is a really good
argument for trying bottles (either pumped breast milk or formula) a
couple times a day, since the mother is the only one with the working
breasts

-continuing the above - you won't have time to to prepare dinners, so
even if you are a health-nut, get some healthy frozen dinners, or get
your friends/relatives to make stuff for you and bring it over.
Friends/relatives are good for helping the mother get sleep during the
day sometimes, too.

-*Rent an electric hospital-grade pump (from a hospital pharmacy
maybe) as soon as possible after birth. This will help your milk come
in (which can take weeks to be fully flowing!), and will let you
bottle feed with the good stuff. Don't be discouraged if you can
hardly pump anything the first few times - one day it just comes in.
The vast majority of new mothers will have enough milk soon enough,
yet they often believe they don't, due to the difficulty of the whole
situation. If you are really worried, there are some safe drugs
(fenugreek, I think?) and probably some common herbs and things
available to increase milk supply, but you will probably find it's
unnecessary. Seriously try having a half beer or glass of wine to
help you relax and learn that "let-down" reflex. (careful with wine,
though, our baby really gets upset when feeding after mom had some red
wine - don't know why)

-When you sit down, get comfortable and keep trying different
baby-holds if you don't think one of them is working well. Many
people will insist that x or y is the "right way", but if you try it
and don't like it, just do whatever works for you.

-Get as much help as you can every day, at first. Try often, because
the more sucking, the more the mother's milk will want to fully come
in. Also, if the baby is not desperately starving and crying, it's
easier to try to get her on.
Learn how to do hand-compressions of your breast - they can be very
useful early-on. Soon you'll be shooting sprays of milk across the
room

-Get appointments with lactation consultants or nurses from any source
possible: Your hospital, your city/region's public health office,
breastfeeding clinics in other hospitals, your mom?, and I recommend
La Leche League. Some people feel some La Leche groups are too
rabidly anti-formula, but we found they were very helpful,
understanding, and reasonable in our area, and they provided a lot of
support, and many have been through the same problems as you. Try
Nurses or Lactation Consultants before going to doctors - for some
reason, doctors are very quick to just prescribe formula and they
usually don't know anything about breastfeeding, except from a book.
However, we did get some good help from the Dr. Jack Newman clinic in
Toronto. They were very militant, and rabidly anti-formula, but they
are breastfeeding experts and did teach us a thing or two.

A lot of the sources I mentioned above are free or cheap (in Canada,
anyway). Renting the hospital-grade pump was more expensive, but
worth it if you look at the cost of one week of formula. Once you are
good at pumping, you can buy a cheaper hand-pump. The Avent one
worked really well for my wife, and if the handle squeaks, they mail
you a new one for free.

Anyway, best of luck, breastfeeding is very rewarding for mother and
baby, but try not to stress if it doesn't work at first - all you can
do is try your best as long as you can (just because you might use
formula doesn't mean you can't keep trying breastfeeding too), and if
it ends up working, it'll be worth the struggle.

David

Very good post. I do want to disagree about the everybody pump and
use bottles for the baby thing so the mom can get some sleep. For
some it is better to work at learning to nurse while sleeping in a
side lying position, so the baby who gets milk out most efficiently
can be doing just that. It was pretty nice when we went to solids
though, so now my dh usually does 1 feeding a day.

KC
Rent, Rent-to-own or buy a (hospital grade) Whittlestone Breast
Expresser at:
http://www.alittlestore.com


(David C) wrote in message . com...
In-Reply-To:

This post may not get threaded properly - Google wouldn't let me
"reply" to a message from four months ago.

Anyway, as the parent of a 4 month old, I wanted to follow up to a
post showing our desperation about 4 months ago:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...%26scoring%3Dd

Thanks to everyone who replied with suggestions.

In the end, everything was a success.

Here's what happened (sort-of in point form):

From birth, our baby had a strong preference for having her hands up
in front of her face - probably the way she was in the womb.

Babies are strong, and aside from not being born knowing how to
breastfeed, the hands-in-the-face tendency made it virtually
impossible for a new mother to get a good latch or any kind of
breastfeeding going.

We tried everything we could think of, and got all the help we could,
and the stress on my wife was huge. After a week or so, the baby's
weight had dipped (but not by 10%) and we were worried, and the doctor
advised supplementing with some formula, and getting a breast pump.

Our baby did not like feeding from a bottle either, so we also used a
finger-tube-syringe system, while trying different bottles.

We ended up using formula 3 or 4 times in the first 2 weeks, when we
thought she was hungry, and didn't have enough milk pumped, and my
wife was too stressed to keep fighting with the baby who wouldn't get
on properly or stay on. She really didn't like the formula very much,
but when she was hungry, she would take it (while pushing half of it
out of her mouth during feeding).

By 4 weeks, my wife said she hated me for "forcing" her to keep trying
with the breastfeeding, which was still very stressful but working a
little better at this point and the baby's weight was gaining well.
The baby had the perfect number of wet and dirty diapers, but my wife
was still believing it "wasn't working", even though they were having
somewhat more routine feedings with not-too-bad latches. She had been
an avid breastfeeding advocate before this, but the experience is so
difficult that she really wanted to quit, and I was trying to
encourage her to keep trying whenever she felt up to it, rather than
quit altogether.

By 6 weeks, the baby suddenly acted like she was a breastfeeding
expert, with a picture perfect latch, the ability to go on and off the
breast easily during a feed (sometimes stopping to smack her lips like
a gourmet), sometimes use her fists to squeeze mom's breast to get a
little extra, and often just fell asleep still latched after a good
meal. My wife was suddenly super-relaxed and happy when
breastfeeding, and this helped her to deal with all the other stresses
on a new parent. She still felt I put too much pressure on her
earlier, but was thankful I did based on the end result. It was
amazing how it was almost an overnight difference when my wife
suddenly said "Hey - it's working now!"



My advice to others having lots of trouble:
-There is no need to worry about your baby's weight dipping after
birth unless it's more than 10% - it's hard to believe this as a new
parent, but it's true.
Keep track of what happens in every diaper - this is one way to be
sure they are not being malnourished while the baby and the mother's
body try to figure out breastfeeding. See a nurse or baby books for
details.

-If you really want to breastfeed, I would try to avoid using formula,
but don't feel bad if you feel you have to - just keep also trying
with the breastfeeding. Breast milk tastes better and sweeter, so I'd
bet most babies won't become worse breastfeeders just because they get
a taste of formula. I would use a canned ready-made one for
convenience at first (you don't have time to mix powder, and you might
get it wrong if you are very tired), and choose one that is "easier
for babies to digest".

-*Make sure the mother gets some sleep! Neither parent will sleep
that well for the first month or two, and it's really hard, but if you
want breastfeeding to work, the father should take as much time off
work as possible, and if they aren't too dominating, invite your
relatives to help babysit while you crash in the other room. Even if
the father still works, he should sacrifice a lot of sleep to help the
mother at first. We had really good days when my wife got decent
sleep, and really bad ones when she didn't. This is a really good
argument for trying bottles (either pumped breast milk or formula) a
couple times a day, since the mother is the only one with the working
breasts

-continuing the above - you won't have time to to prepare dinners, so
even if you are a health-nut, get some healthy frozen dinners, or get
your friends/relatives to make stuff for you and bring it over.
Friends/relatives are good for helping the mother get sleep during the
day sometimes, too.

-*Rent an electric hospital-grade pump (from a hospital pharmacy
maybe) as soon as possible after birth. This will help your milk come
in (which can take weeks to be fully flowing!), and will let you
bottle feed with the good stuff. Don't be discouraged if you can
hardly pump anything the first few times - one day it just comes in.
The vast majority of new mothers will have enough milk soon enough,
yet they often believe they don't, due to the difficulty of the whole
situation. If you are really worried, there are some safe drugs
(fenugreek, I think?) and probably some common herbs and things
available to increase milk supply, but you will probably find it's
unnecessary. Seriously try having a half beer or glass of wine to
help you relax and learn that "let-down" reflex. (careful with wine,
though, our baby really gets upset when feeding after mom had some red
wine - don't know why)

-When you sit down, get comfortable and keep trying different
baby-holds if you don't think one of them is working well. Many
people will insist that x or y is the "right way", but if you try it
and don't like it, just do whatever works for you.

-Get as much help as you can every day, at first. Try often, because
the more sucking, the more the mother's milk will want to fully come
in. Also, if the baby is not desperately starving and crying, it's
easier to try to get her on.
Learn how to do hand-compressions of your breast - they can be very
useful early-on. Soon you'll be shooting sprays of milk across the
room

-Get appointments with lactation consultants or nurses from any source
possible: Your hospital, your city/region's public health office,
breastfeeding clinics in other hospitals, your mom?, and I recommend
La Leche League. Some people feel some La Leche groups are too
rabidly anti-formula, but we found they were very helpful,
understanding, and reasonable in our area, and they provided a lot of
support, and many have been through the same problems as you. Try
Nurses or Lactation Consultants before going to doctors - for some
reason, doctors are very quick to just prescribe formula and they
usually don't know anything about breastfeeding, except from a book.
However, we did get some good help from the Dr. Jack Newman clinic in
Toronto. They were very militant, and rabidly anti-formula, but they
are breastfeeding experts and did teach us a thing or two.

A lot of the sources I mentioned above are free or cheap (in Canada,
anyway). Renting the hospital-grade pump was more expensive, but
worth it if you look at the cost of one week of formula. Once you are
good at pumping, you can buy a cheaper hand-pump. The Avent one
worked really well for my wife, and if the handle squeaks, they mail
you a new one for free.

Anyway, best of luck, breastfeeding is very rewarding for mother and
baby, but try not to stress if it doesn't work at first - all you can
do is try your best as long as you can (just because you might use
formula doesn't mean you can't keep trying breastfeeding too), and if
it ends up working, it'll be worth the struggle.

David

(KC) wrote in message . com...
Very good post. I do want to disagree about the everybody pump and
use bottles for the baby thing so the mom can get some sleep. For
some it is better to work at learning to nurse while sleeping in a
side lying position, so the baby who gets milk out most efficiently
can be doing just that. It was pretty nice when we went to solids
though, so now my dh usually does 1 feeding a day.

KC


Good point.

From our experience, we had heard that it can be very beneficial to
all involved to try nursing while lying down. So during the really
rough period, it was something we also tried. However, for some
strange reason, it made my wife (DW? - I'm guessing on this NG it
means "darling wife", and ds, dd, dh are son, daughter, and husband?)
- anyway, it made DW feel "icky". She couldn't exactly explain it but
it almost felt sexual or something, so it didn't seem to get the milk
flowing any easier and she couldn't handle it, so we gave up.

Then, after things were going really well (around 6 weeks), she tried
it again, and the number of times she needed to stop because it felt
"icky" reduced dramatically. Now she does it routinely, and sometimes
it's the only way to get DD to fall asleep when she's overtired and
cranky. Then I just pick her up as if I am a forklift and bring her
over to the crib after she is asleep. (DD that is, not DW)

And yes, DW also often falls asleep along with DD when breastfeeding
lying down, so it can be beneficial for both, and one way that the
mother can get some much-needed sleep in the first few weeks, if you
can do it.

I still recommend being ready to get a pump if you have any problems
in the first few days - I don't think it would have worked out for us
without it.

David