Excuse me????????????

On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:31:32 -0800, "Chris" wrote:


"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Gini" wrote in message
news:0f7if.118$gi3.46@trndny09...

"Moon Shyne" wrote
"Beverly" wrote
.......................................

Were particular weekends specified in your visitation?

By date? No, aside from his b'day and father's day - it was wide open,
anytime he wanted to see them.
====
Didn't you take him to court to require him to stick with the visitation
times or give you advanced notice
of time changes?

Only after he had repeatedly cancelled at the last minute any number of
weekends - like a year's worth of last minute cancellations?
And even then, the only specifications were every other weekend, and other
times as requested -

Do you believe that a child should spend an equal amount of time with both
parents? If not, why not?

Chris, aren't you the one who keeps touting that fathers should just
be able to walk away because it wasn't their choice to have children
in the first place? If he walks away, then does Mom have to walk away
too so that time spent with each parent is equal?

(just playing devil's advocate)


I don't think I ever said no to any request to see the
kids, with the exception of one mother's day when he called just before
lunch, and we were heading out, having already made plans for the day.

====

"Beverly" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:31:32 -0800, "Chris" wrote:


"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Gini" wrote in message
news:0f7if.118$gi3.46@trndny09...

"Moon Shyne" wrote
"Beverly" wrote
.......................................

Were particular weekends specified in your visitation?

By date? No, aside from his b'day and father's day - it was wide
open,
anytime he wanted to see them.
====
Didn't you take him to court to require him to stick with the
visitation
times or give you advanced notice
of time changes?

Only after he had repeatedly cancelled at the last minute any number of
weekends - like a year's worth of last minute cancellations?
And even then, the only specifications were every other weekend, and
other
times as requested -

Do you believe that a child should spend an equal amount of time with
both
parents? If not, why not?

Chris, aren't you the one who keeps touting that fathers should just
be able to walk away because it wasn't their choice to have children
in the first place? If he walks away, then does Mom have to walk away
too so that time spent with each parent is equal?

That's pretty funny!
But note that I asked a question focused on what the child should do.


(just playing devil's advocate)


I don't think I ever said no to any request to see the
kids, with the exception of one mother's day when he called just before
lunch, and we were heading out, having already made plans for the day.

====

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
news:9tqif.10173$dv.2684@fed1read02...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Gini" wrote in message
news:0f7if.118$gi3.46@trndny09...

"Moon Shyne" wrote
"Beverly" wrote
.......................................

Were particular weekends specified in your visitation?

By date? No, aside from his b'day and father's day - it was wide
open,
anytime he wanted to see them.
====
Didn't you take him to court to require him to stick with the
visitation
times or give you advanced notice
of time changes?

Only after he had repeatedly cancelled at the last minute any number of
weekends - like a year's worth of last minute cancellations?
And even then, the only specifications were every other weekend, and
other
times as requested -

Do you believe that a child should spend an equal amount of time with
both
parents? If not, why not?

There is no blanket answer to that one - in the case of one parent who
simply refuses to take part in the children's lives, for example, then
equal
time simply isn't available. In the case of one parent who is abusive,
for
example, equal time isn't reasonable or safe.

In that case, NO time is reasonable or safe, no?

It would have to be on a case
by case basis.

And who would be the judge?




I don't think I ever said no to any request to see the
kids, with the exception of one mother's day when he called just before
lunch, and we were heading out, having already made plans for the day.

====

"Chris" wrote in message
news:cmQif.10354$dv.9601@fed1read02...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
news:9tqif.10173$dv.2684@fed1read02...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Gini" wrote in message
news:0f7if.118$gi3.46@trndny09...

"Moon Shyne" wrote
"Beverly" wrote
.......................................

Were particular weekends specified in your visitation?

By date? No, aside from his b'day and father's day - it was wide
open,
anytime he wanted to see them.
====
Didn't you take him to court to require him to stick with the
visitation
times or give you advanced notice
of time changes?

Only after he had repeatedly cancelled at the last minute any number
of
weekends - like a year's worth of last minute cancellations?
And even then, the only specifications were every other weekend, and
other
times as requested -

Do you believe that a child should spend an equal amount of time with
both
parents? If not, why not?

There is no blanket answer to that one - in the case of one parent who
simply refuses to take part in the children's lives, for example, then
equal
time simply isn't available. In the case of one parent who is abusive,
for
example, equal time isn't reasonable or safe.

In that case, NO time is reasonable or safe, no?

Which case? More than one was mentioned.


It would have to be on a case
by case basis.

And who would be the judge?

By whomever is determing the amount of time spent with each parent, I
suppose - with the general theory that if the parents can agree, great, and
if they can't or won't agree, then it goes through the legal paces.

I'm sure you can work out your own ideas on this one, Chris.





I don't think I ever said no to any request to see the
kids, with the exception of one mother's day when he called just
before
lunch, and we were heading out, having already made plans for the day.

====

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
news:cmQif.10354$dv.9601@fed1read02...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
news:9tqif.10173$dv.2684@fed1read02...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Gini" wrote in message
news:0f7if.118$gi3.46@trndny09...

"Moon Shyne" wrote
"Beverly" wrote
.......................................

Were particular weekends specified in your visitation?

By date? No, aside from his b'day and father's day - it was wide
open,
anytime he wanted to see them.
====
Didn't you take him to court to require him to stick with the
visitation
times or give you advanced notice
of time changes?

Only after he had repeatedly cancelled at the last minute any number
of
weekends - like a year's worth of last minute cancellations?
And even then, the only specifications were every other weekend, and
other
times as requested -

Do you believe that a child should spend an equal amount of time with
both
parents? If not, why not?

There is no blanket answer to that one - in the case of one parent who
simply refuses to take part in the children's lives, for example, then
equal
time simply isn't available. In the case of one parent who is abusive,
for
example, equal time isn't reasonable or safe.

In that case, NO time is reasonable or safe, no?

Which case? More than one was mentioned.

In the case of the one immediately before my question; "In the case of one
parent who is abusive, for example, equal time isn't reasonable or safe.".



It would have to be on a case
by case basis.

And who would be the judge?

By whomever is determing the amount of time spent with each parent, I
suppose - with the general theory that if the parents can agree, great,
and
if they can't or won't agree, then it goes through the legal paces.

I'm sure you can work out your own ideas on this one, Chris.





I don't think I ever said no to any request to see the
kids, with the exception of one mother's day when he called just
before
lunch, and we were heading out, having already made plans for the
day.

====

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:15:43 -0800, "Chris" wrote:


"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
news:cmQif.10354$dv.9601@fed1read02...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
news:9tqif.10173$dv.2684@fed1read02...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Gini" wrote in message
news:0f7if.118$gi3.46@trndny09...

"Moon Shyne" wrote
"Beverly" wrote
.......................................

Were particular weekends specified in your visitation?

By date? No, aside from his b'day and father's day - it was wide
open,
anytime he wanted to see them.
====
Didn't you take him to court to require him to stick with the
visitation
times or give you advanced notice
of time changes?

Only after he had repeatedly cancelled at the last minute any number
of
weekends - like a year's worth of last minute cancellations?
And even then, the only specifications were every other weekend, and
other
times as requested -

Do you believe that a child should spend an equal amount of time with
both
parents? If not, why not?

There is no blanket answer to that one - in the case of one parent who
simply refuses to take part in the children's lives, for example, then
equal
time simply isn't available. In the case of one parent who is abusive,
for
example, equal time isn't reasonable or safe.

In that case, NO time is reasonable or safe, no?

Which case? More than one was mentioned.

In the case of the one immediately before my question; "In the case of one
parent who is abusive, for example, equal time isn't reasonable or safe.".

Wouldn't that depend on the type of abuse (child vs. spousal)? Or
whether or not the abusive person has a mental illness which can be
controlled (anger issues vs. pedophilia)?




It would have to be on a case
by case basis.

And who would be the judge?

By whomever is determing the amount of time spent with each parent, I
suppose - with the general theory that if the parents can agree, great,
and
if they can't or won't agree, then it goes through the legal paces.

I'm sure you can work out your own ideas on this one, Chris.





I don't think I ever said no to any request to see the
kids, with the exception of one mother's day when he called just
before
lunch, and we were heading out, having already made plans for the
day.

====

"Beverly" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:15:43 -0800, "Chris" wrote:


"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
news:cmQif.10354$dv.9601@fed1read02...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
news:9tqif.10173$dv.2684@fed1read02...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Gini" wrote in message
news:0f7if.118$gi3.46@trndny09...

"Moon Shyne" wrote
"Beverly" wrote
.......................................

Were particular weekends specified in your visitation?

By date? No, aside from his b'day and father's day - it was
wide
open,
anytime he wanted to see them.
====
Didn't you take him to court to require him to stick with the
visitation
times or give you advanced notice
of time changes?

Only after he had repeatedly cancelled at the last minute any
number
of
weekends - like a year's worth of last minute cancellations?
And even then, the only specifications were every other weekend,
and
other
times as requested -

Do you believe that a child should spend an equal amount of time
with
both
parents? If not, why not?

There is no blanket answer to that one - in the case of one parent
who
simply refuses to take part in the children's lives, for example,
then
equal
time simply isn't available. In the case of one parent who is
abusive,
for
example, equal time isn't reasonable or safe.

In that case, NO time is reasonable or safe, no?

Which case? More than one was mentioned.

In the case of the one immediately before my question; "In the case of one
parent who is abusive, for example, equal time isn't reasonable or safe.".

Wouldn't that depend on the type of abuse (child vs. spousal)?

I dunno - when it comes to children, just what sort of, or how much, abuse
is acceptable?

Or
whether or not the abusive person has a mental illness which can be
controlled (anger issues vs. pedophilia)?




It would have to be on a case
by case basis.

And who would be the judge?

By whomever is determing the amount of time spent with each parent, I
suppose - with the general theory that if the parents can agree, great,
and
if they can't or won't agree, then it goes through the legal paces.

I'm sure you can work out your own ideas on this one, Chris.





I don't think I ever said no to any request to see the
kids, with the exception of one mother's day when he called just
before
lunch, and we were heading out, having already made plans for the
day.

====

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 10:23:32 GMT, "Moon Shyne"
wrote:


"Beverly" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:15:43 -0800, "Chris" wrote:


"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
news:cmQif.10354$dv.9601@fed1read02...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
news:9tqif.10173$dv.2684@fed1read02...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Gini" wrote in message
news:0f7if.118$gi3.46@trndny09...

"Moon Shyne" wrote
"Beverly" wrote
.......................................

Were particular weekends specified in your visitation?

By date? No, aside from his b'day and father's day - it was
wide
open,
anytime he wanted to see them.
====
Didn't you take him to court to require him to stick with the
visitation
times or give you advanced notice
of time changes?

Only after he had repeatedly cancelled at the last minute any
number
of
weekends - like a year's worth of last minute cancellations?
And even then, the only specifications were every other weekend,
and
other
times as requested -

Do you believe that a child should spend an equal amount of time
with
both
parents? If not, why not?

There is no blanket answer to that one - in the case of one parent
who
simply refuses to take part in the children's lives, for example,
then
equal
time simply isn't available. In the case of one parent who is
abusive,
for
example, equal time isn't reasonable or safe.

In that case, NO time is reasonable or safe, no?

Which case? More than one was mentioned.

In the case of the one immediately before my question; "In the case of one
parent who is abusive, for example, equal time isn't reasonable or safe.".

Wouldn't that depend on the type of abuse (child vs. spousal)?

I dunno - when it comes to children, just what sort of, or how much, abuse
is acceptable?

Absolutely no type of abuse is ever acceptable, but I was agreeing
with you and responding to Chris's comment "In that case, NO time is
reasonable or safe, no?"

It simply isn't as black and white as Chris's comment. Some people
who have been abusive seek treatment when their behavior causes them
to lose the most precious thing in their life, like a family.

Alcoholics, for instance, can be abusive; however, once clean and
sober through treatment, can be very safe to allow children to be
with. A pedophile, on the other hand, cannot be treated in a way that
makes them safe with children. Both conditions are considered
incurable and both can be treated, but whereas an alcoholic's
treatment consists of avoiding alcohol, a pedophile's treatment
consists of avoiding children. These are just examples.


Or
whether or not the abusive person has a mental illness which can be
controlled (anger issues vs. pedophilia)?




It would have to be on a case
by case basis.

And who would be the judge?

By whomever is determing the amount of time spent with each parent, I
suppose - with the general theory that if the parents can agree, great,
and
if they can't or won't agree, then it goes through the legal paces.

I'm sure you can work out your own ideas on this one, Chris.





I don't think I ever said no to any request to see the
kids, with the exception of one mother's day when he called just
before
lunch, and we were heading out, having already made plans for the
day.

====

"Beverly" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 10:23:32 GMT, "Moon Shyne"
wrote:


"Beverly" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:15:43 -0800, "Chris" wrote:


"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
news:cmQif.10354$dv.9601@fed1read02...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
news:9tqif.10173$dv.2684@fed1read02...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Gini" wrote in message
news:0f7if.118$gi3.46@trndny09...

"Moon Shyne" wrote
"Beverly" wrote
.......................................

Were particular weekends specified in your visitation?

By date? No, aside from his b'day and father's day - it was
wide
open,
anytime he wanted to see them.
====
Didn't you take him to court to require him to stick with the
visitation
times or give you advanced notice
of time changes?

Only after he had repeatedly cancelled at the last minute any
number
of
weekends - like a year's worth of last minute cancellations?
And even then, the only specifications were every other
weekend,
and
other
times as requested -

Do you believe that a child should spend an equal amount of time
with
both
parents? If not, why not?

There is no blanket answer to that one - in the case of one parent
who
simply refuses to take part in the children's lives, for example,
then
equal
time simply isn't available. In the case of one parent who is
abusive,
for
example, equal time isn't reasonable or safe.

In that case, NO time is reasonable or safe, no?

Which case? More than one was mentioned.

In the case of the one immediately before my question; "In the case of
one
parent who is abusive, for example, equal time isn't reasonable or
safe.".

Wouldn't that depend on the type of abuse (child vs. spousal)?

I dunno - when it comes to children, just what sort of, or how much,
abuse
is acceptable?

Absolutely no type of abuse is ever acceptable, but I was agreeing
with you and responding to Chris's comment "In that case, NO time is
reasonable or safe, no?"

It simply isn't as black and white as Chris's comment.

Either time is reasonable/safe or it is NOT reasonable/safe. What's not
black and white about that?

Some people
who have been abusive seek treatment when their behavior causes them
to lose the most precious thing in their life, like a family.

Alcoholics, for instance, can be abusive; however, once clean and
sober through treatment, can be very safe to allow children to be
with. A pedophile, on the other hand, cannot be treated in a way that
makes them safe with children.

"Safe" being a matter of opinion.

Both conditions are considered
incurable and both can be treated, but whereas an alcoholic's
treatment consists of avoiding alcohol, a pedophile's treatment
consists of avoiding children. These are just examples.

Wouldn't that be more accurately stated "an alcoholic's treatment consists
of avoiding (the abuse of) alcohol, a pedophile's treatment consists of
avoiding (the abuse of) children"?



Or
whether or not the abusive person has a mental illness which can be
controlled (anger issues vs. pedophilia)?




It would have to be on a case
by case basis.

And who would be the judge?

By whomever is determing the amount of time spent with each parent, I
suppose - with the general theory that if the parents can agree,
great,
and
if they can't or won't agree, then it goes through the legal paces.

I'm sure you can work out your own ideas on this one, Chris.





I don't think I ever said no to any request to see the
kids, with the exception of one mother's day when he called
just
before
lunch, and we were heading out, having already made plans for
the
day.

====

"Beverly" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:15:43 -0800, "Chris" wrote:


"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
news:cmQif.10354$dv.9601@fed1read02...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
news:9tqif.10173$dv.2684@fed1read02...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Gini" wrote in message
news:0f7if.118$gi3.46@trndny09...

"Moon Shyne" wrote
"Beverly" wrote
.......................................

Were particular weekends specified in your visitation?

By date? No, aside from his b'day and father's day - it was
wide
open,
anytime he wanted to see them.
====
Didn't you take him to court to require him to stick with the
visitation
times or give you advanced notice
of time changes?

Only after he had repeatedly cancelled at the last minute any
number
of
weekends - like a year's worth of last minute cancellations?
And even then, the only specifications were every other weekend,
and
other
times as requested -

Do you believe that a child should spend an equal amount of time
with
both
parents? If not, why not?

There is no blanket answer to that one - in the case of one parent w
ho
simply refuses to take part in the children's lives, for example,
then
equal
time simply isn't available. In the case of one parent who is
abusive,
for
example, equal time isn't reasonable or safe.

In that case, NO time is reasonable or safe, no?

Which case? More than one was mentioned.

In the case of the one immediately before my question; "In the case of
one
parent who is abusive, for example, equal time isn't reasonable or
safe.".

Wouldn't that depend on the type of abuse (child vs. spousal)? Or
whether or not the abusive person has a mental illness which can be
controlled (anger issues vs. pedophilia)?

You tell me. Can you give me an example where some, but not equal, amount of
time is reasonable or safe?





It would have to be on a case
by case basis.

And who would be the judge?

By whomever is determing the amount of time spent with each parent, I
suppose - with the general theory that if the parents can agree,
great,
and
if they can't or won't agree, then it goes through the legal paces.

I'm sure you can work out your own ideas on this one, Chris.





I don't think I ever said no to any request to see the
kids, with the exception of one mother's day when he called just
before
lunch, and we were heading out, having already made plans for the
day.

====