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Co-sleeping=more night wakings???



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 19th 04, 01:57 AM
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Default Co-sleeping=more night wakings???

Irrational Number wrote:

Now, we do solids twice a day, sometimes
3 times. He has been pretty stable at waking
up every 3 hours to nurse, going right back
to sleep afterwards.
So, I don't think it makes a difference whether
you cosleep or not... At the 9-month WBV
yesterday, the ped. said that I'm sort of "stuck"
with this schedule until we wean, that for some
babies, breastmilk will digest that fast and they
get hungry, or it's a comfort thing. So, I've
resigned myself to waking up every 3 hours
until at least Pillbug's 1st birthday...


Well, that is a myth about breast feeding. Breast milk will digest
more easily in the stomach but your child waking up more or needing
more frequent feedings isn't because of breast milk. There were
some studies done and they showed that children who were breast
fed were sleeping as long as children who were bottle fed (all
other things held constant).

Bottom line is that breast feeding can be more convenient and children
end up feeding on demand. Breast feeding is also more soothing so
I think children naturally like to be fed at night. What can
be more comforting then being next to your mother, in bed and
eating to boot ?

BUT, the above paragraph is entirely my opinion.

You can get your baby to feed less and still continue breast feeding
past 1yr if you want. Not saying that you should, just want you
to know the facts.

Good luck!
  #12  
Old March 19th 04, 03:30 AM
toypup
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Default Co-sleeping=more night wakings???


wrote in message
...
The other extreme is the nutjobs who think that at 8 weeks it's ok to let

your
baby cry for hours and whimper till they pass out. I met a couple in the
park the other day who let their baby cry for 2hrs and she was just 2

weeks
old.


That's just plain cruel.


  #13  
Old March 19th 04, 05:54 AM
Cadie
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Default Co-sleeping=more night wakings???


wrote in message
...
Irrational Number wrote:

Now, we do solids twice a day, sometimes
3 times. He has been pretty stable at waking
up every 3 hours to nurse, going right back
to sleep afterwards.
So, I don't think it makes a difference whether
you cosleep or not... At the 9-month WBV
yesterday, the ped. said that I'm sort of "stuck"
with this schedule until we wean, that for some
babies, breastmilk will digest that fast and they
get hungry, or it's a comfort thing. So, I've
resigned myself to waking up every 3 hours
until at least Pillbug's 1st birthday...


Well, that is a myth about breast feeding. Breast milk will digest
more easily in the stomach but your child waking up more or needing
more frequent feedings isn't because of breast milk. There were
some studies done and they showed that children who were breast
fed were sleeping as long as children who were bottle fed (all
other things held constant).


What studies? And the sleeping longer will be individual. But it is
indeed true that breastmilk is digested faster than formula, and
babies will be hungrier faster. That doesn't mean they'll actually
wake up to eat when they get hungry, but they will get hungry. Some
will sleep through the hunger jsut to sleep (or if they've been
trained to do so).

But all I've learned says that frequent night waking can be related to
breastmilk being digested so quickly, and the small size of the
infants stomach (the size of their fist). Though not all breastfed
babies will frequently wake up at night...

Did that make sense? (LOL, I seem to ask that a lot.)



  #14  
Old March 19th 04, 06:02 AM
Cadie
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Default Co-sleeping=more night wakings???


wrote in message
...
Jrogold wrote:
four years. DS #1 woke once a night until he was over three and he
stopped only because we welcomed him back into our bed when I was
pregnant with number 2 so DH could watch him and I could sleep

better.
(Funny how the boy was back in our bed when DH took over the night
times. DH was critical of the co-sleeping when I was the only one
waking. LOL)
So do you think co-sleeping children wake more?


It's a scientifically proven fact that sleeping next to someone will
provide your body with stimulus and you'll sleep less. This applies
to adults and children.

So if you managed to teach your child good sleep associations at a

younger
age then they would sleep thru the night and probably be very well

rested
and pleasant during the day (assuming everything else is going

well).

Some kids do have problems and I'm not advocating Ferber/CIO or any

other
methods.

Whatever approach you take it's hard to find the facts about sleep.

Everyone
goes to the extremes which is really sad and unfair to the baby.

I find that a lot of co-sleepers wrongly assume their babies are

just poor
sleepers, perpetually sick, just a fussy kid etc..etc.. and their

children
end up getting short changed on sleep. I see them developing such

strong
sleep associations that they can't even nap during the day unless

mommy
is there and she can't always be there.

The other extreme is the nutjobs who think that at 8 weeks it's ok

to let your
baby cry for hours and whimper till they pass out. I met a couple

in the
park the other day who let their baby cry for 2hrs and she was just

2 weeks
old.


I again find myself questioning a scientific fact... and I don't like
doing it because it seems rude... LOL :-)

But where are you getting your information? I can say I've done a bit
of research on the subject... and have not read any scientific "facts"
that say this about infants, and infact have read the opposite. I've
read opinions that state this, but never a proven fact.

But it was once proven to me that my son slept better next to me than
not... when he was younger he'd wake ever 20 minutes in the crib, but
would sleep 8 hours next to me some nights... 5 other nights. No
waking. Now he does fine in his crib, but he didn't used to. And no,
he doesn't need to nap next to me... never did actually, only had a
problem at night.... hmm.

Babies arent' designed to sleep all night at an early age. Waking up
is partially a survival mechanism, and partly just pure biology.
Their sleep cycles arent' the same as ours, and they go through more
transitional periods, which is usually when they wake up, because
they're mroe aware they're hungry or cold or whatnot during those
lighter sleep phases.


  #15  
Old March 19th 04, 06:29 AM
Larissa
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Default Co-sleeping=more night wakings???

Jrogold wrote:
I would love some feedback.

We have co-slept with both of our two kids. Though, these days DH
sleeps with the 4 year old and I sleep with the baby in another room.
Constant colds and sleep issues have set this up for the last couple
of weeks so that we just don't sleep well all in the same room.

If you had told me 4 years ago that my ds would still be sleeping with
us I would have passed out. When he was a tiny infant I was constantly
asking more experienced mothers "When?" When will he not need to be
held so much? When will he stop nursing every hour? When will he sleep
through the night? I wised up a bit and read a few Dr. Sears books and
just plowed ahead with what was working for us.

With DS #2 I thought right from the start, this one is going to sleep
better. He is much more mellow than the first and slept good 4 hour
stretches in the early weeks. Now at 6 months he wakes 3 times a night
(on a good night) and nurses quite well during those wakings. I am a
full-time working mom and I figure he is reverse cycling a bit because
he has never been a big fan on the bottle.

While this is OK with me I wonder is it the nature of my children or
my methods that leave me having not slept through the night MYSELF for
four years. DS #1 woke once a night until he was over three and he
stopped only because we welcomed him back into our bed when I was
pregnant with number 2 so DH could watch him and I could sleep better.
(Funny how the boy was back in our bed when DH took over the night
times. DH was critical of the co-sleeping when I was the only one
waking. LOL)

So do you think co-sleeping children wake more?

J


I think a lot depends on the individual child. Some kids are just not
good sleepers and seem to wake more often than others. My nephew did not
sleep through the night until he was 6.

I ended up co-sleeping when #1 would not sleep longer than 45min in her
crib. Endless pacing the hallway, to get her back to sleep only to have
her constantly wake was too much. We ended up putting her in bed when we
went to bed. By 12months she was sleeping through and still breastfed,
so she could of still had a feed if she had wanted to. When #2 arrived I
decided to co-sleep from the start, he usually woke only 2 a night to
start with and then once and was sleeping through again by 12months. He
was breastfed till age 2, but did not have a feed during the night.

#3 seems to be similar to #2 so far, she wakes twice a night for a feed
and we bothgo back to sleep quickly.

I don't think co-sleeping has made my nursing babies/toddlers wake more
at night. In fact we only really do it because everyone sleeps better.
#2 is still in our room in a single bed, #1 decided to move to her own
bed in her own room just before her 5th birthday.

Just do what works for your family.

Larissa

  #16  
Old March 19th 04, 06:25 PM
Joshua Levy
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Default Co-sleeping=more night wakings???

(Jrogold) wrote in message . com...
So do you think co-sleeping children wake more?


There have been lots of research done on this, which shows
that co-sleeping kids wake more. Here is some to get you started.
(Obviously, you won't see this on any pro-cosleeping web site, or
in any of Dr. Sears's books :-)


Emotional and behavioural problems in a sample of Finnish
three-year-olds.
by Sourander A. published in Eur Child Adolesc Psychiatry 2001
Jun;10(2):98-104
To quote from the summary of the study:
"Co-sleeping with parents was associated with sleep problems."


The study Persistence of sleep disturbances in preschool children by
Kataria S, Swanson MS, Trevathan GE in J Pediatr 1987 Apr;110(4):642-6
(
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract)
says:
"Co-sleeping (sleeping with a parent or sibling) was noted
more frequently in sleep-disturbed (34%) than in
non-sleep-disturbed
(16%) children."

Cosleeping and sleep problems in Hispanic-American urban young
children.
by Schachter FF, Fuchs ML, Bijur PE, Stone RK of Dept of Pediatrics,
New
York Medical College, Metropolitan Hospital Center, NY 10029. in
Pediatrics
1989 Sep;84(3):522-30
(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract)
"Frequent all-night cosleeping was also significantly associated
with
sleep problems."

Cosleeping in context: sleep practices and problems in young children
in
Japan and the United States by Latz S, Wolf AW, Lozoff B. in Arch
Pediatr
Adolesc Med 1999 Apr;153(4):339-46
"Within the US sample, cosleeping was associated with more bedtime
struggles (P.001), night waking (P.01), and overall stressful
sleep problems (P.01). ... In the Japanese sample, cosleeping
was
associated only with night waking (P.05)"

Joshua Levy
  #17  
Old March 20th 04, 01:27 PM
Jrogold
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Default Co-sleeping=more night wakings???

First I want to thank everyone for their replies. Sorry I have been
missing in action, family in town.

In general, if there was an area that I felt that I had not suceeded
with the kids, it was because sleep is such a loaded issue. Again, we
did what we had to in order to get sleep as a family. My efforts will
be to get the number 2 to sleep better in his own space (we have the
arms reach co-sleeper) without the tears. (Wish me luck). He already
sleeps better without me "on top" of him than DS#1 does now at 4 years
of age. Temperment is quite different. Thanks Joshua Levy, I will be
reading those articles. I know I am posting in a slanted environment
(mostly because it makes me feel better that I am not alone in my
choices :-) but I am interested in a rounded discussion.

Jrogold

"Nikki" wrote in message ...
Jrogold wrote:

So do you think co-sleeping children wake more?


First let me just say my #1 sounds just like yours and my #2 sounds just
like yours too :-)

I think co-sleeping *increases the likelihood* that a baby will nurse more
frequently during the night and/or for a longer time. IRL there are all
kinds of outcomes though.

I think co-sleeping greatly increases the likelihood that a child will be
much older before spending the entire night in their own rooms, in their own
beds, without a parent. There are of course plenty of exceptions out there
:-)

#1 needed to be held all the time from the get go and reverse cycled so he
was a lost cause ;-) In my heart I really believe that if I would have
committed to crib sleeping with #2 he would have slept through and quit
night nursing (or at least been down to a couple times) before 12mo. I
didn't do that of course ;-)

Now...#1 will be 5 next month. In the last three months he has started to
lay down and fall asleep while I was in the next room and he'll spend the
whole night in his bed about 15% of the time, the rest of the time he'll
come in with me after 5-6 hrs. I sit with #2 until he falls asleep. He
spends 3-4 hrs in his bed and then comes into bed with me.

Getting them both to stay in their own beds would probably be possible but
not easy on them. I have given nudges here and there to get to this point
but I'm not bothered by the current set up so I'm just going to let them
grow out of it from here.

 




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